Shards - closest or furthest cap?

[Yamineko]

Hello,

 

since I've seen in almost every battle on shards the debate A+B or B+C, I'd like to get an answer to that question. Just for reference, the map in question:

 

Would you go to the closest or furthest cap as team in addition to B?

 

I'd see it the following way:

DDs should go to the closest cap. The enemy mostly can't interrupt the cap and the DDs can get out in time. I don't think the fast-cap strategy for DDs has any good alternatives.

The main part of the team should go to the furthest cap. Reasons being:

• Enemies will be isolated due to mountains, while the entire allied team can fire into it
• Slower enemies will have a hard time to maneouver due to it being cramped within the cap
• Approach is rather wide and islands can be used as cover if need be
• Can still retreat in case entire enemy team lemming train'd
• Can support ships in B while en route
   

Of course the same reasons can be inverted for not going to the closest cap. Arguments for the closest cap I can see are it's proximity and that you "only" have to defend it. But then again, as I said it's hard to effectively defend it unless you want to play sitting duck or sightseeing on 1 or 10-line.

 

Lastly, I hope there aren't any map guides that answer my question (I haven't found any). If there are really none, I'd also like to offer writing a map guide, but I don't have enough experience yet to determine the best starting deployments for each map. Therefor I'd be really grateful if any unicum wants to help me out by advising. Please feel free to send me a PM.

[ColonelPete]

B+C.

Enemy DD near A can always interrupt your DDs. Even cruisers might manage that.

Example:

https://wowreplays.com/Replay/28022

 

If enemy pushes A, you cannot hold it. Teammates from outside are handicapped giving firesupport. Teammates going into A have problems evading enemy fire because of enclosed space.

[Cyclops_]

My two penneth worth is that if the enemy are in A, they are trapped and can be fired on through the gaps, especially if no planes radar, rpf etc are available to them.

 

[anonym_i2RxUTEMphjW]

Well, it's one of the better tactical questions of the game. Unfortunately it becomes void recently, as at least 50-60% Shards games seems to develop this way instead:

Personally, i like when this scenario happens:

 

 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Would you go to the closest or furthest cap as team in addition to B?

With this positioning, as a Japanese DD I go to A.

 

The BBs, depending on type, aggression level, etc are going to take their time getting to C... if they ever do.  CA/CL support is always questionable, so going into C is risky at best.  Early on, you most likely have to fight for this cap with limited support.

 

If you head to A Cap in most instances you will arrive before the enemy team, and if you plan for escape ahead of time, you can get out should things go poorly.  Many BBs have a tendency to drift behind the islands in this area, so 'support' should arrive eventually. 

[The_Baptist]

If the picture isn't self explanatory - don't go to the red zones FFS

 

[Venom_Too]

The Best Way is from South Side.

 

A+B.. Cause the Way is the shortest for the Spawn.

 

 

From North it is B+C. Same Reason.

 

 

 

AND YES it is faster than the enemy.. Cause if you go From South .. you WILL get the whole spawn closest to A into A... Which is NOT beatable if played correctly.

You have to Push aggresiv for Victory.. The ones on the farther Right go B and those between can either split (the outer 2-3 Ships can sequeeze also into A if they are 30knots fast) or go B .. So you get the most Important Point on the Map.

 

Afterwards if you got a.. you travers to B.. and Def it or pincer it.

 

 

Same from North with B+C.

 

[urr027]

If you go to A in DD you give B to enemy. Enemy controlling B will make it hard for your team to support you at A. IMO both DDs should move to B and once this is capped move to C.

[anonym_i2RxUTEMphjW]

If you go to A in DD you give B to enemy. Enemy controlling B will make it hard for your team to support you at A. IMO both DDs should move to B and once this is capped move to C.

 

Nope. Left flank DD go to A, right to B, battleships push B. This is where most of the teams lose, when their BBs hide behind A, push themselves into A or go and run around C. They have to be in the center and be able to project their firepower in all directions. It's not a random thing that BBs almost always spawn in the middle here - here, if they're pushing B from the start, they'll be able to flank enemy going into A and help keep it.

 

Here we have a typical development and you can see me getting pissed off in Nagato. All 4 other BBs went of course into C to fight 1 BB and 1 CA...

Fortunately those light guys i met in B were really good and while we all died there, we managed to kill more than half of the enemy's team and hold the cap. Then the great C brigade came back to just sink one ship before we won on points...

 

But typically B is lost and almost whole team is packed into one cap - or even worse, somewhere beyond the islands in the back. I used to really like this map, it's where i've learned bowtanking and loved New Mexico, what made me buy the great baguette - but now, everytime i see it, i just wait what another dumb development the team will make.

[triumphgt6]

South A&B, North B&C - only sensible way. If you approach A from North, you get targeted one by one and die -Belfast is a boon at either A or C

[walter3kurtz]

The funny thing is that it's actually easier to take the cap from the 'closed' side, so in this case the DD would have to grab A asap. One CA can come too but not cap. The rest should move towards B and stay central.

 

I do think the map is unbalanced by the way, if you spawn on the north side and go for C, it's easier to cover that cap from B due to the mountain layout.

[Venom_Too]

The funny thing is that it's actually easier to take the cap from the 'closed' side, so in this case the DD would have to grab A asap. One CA can come too but not cap. The rest should move towards B and stay central.

 

I do think the map is unbalanced by the way, if you spawn on the north side and go for C, it's easier to cover that cap from B due to the mountain layout.

 

The map is actually pretty balanced. Even it doesn't look like it.

Cause you have on both sides mountains which block the coverfire from a to b or c to b and vice a versa.

But both mountain sides offer the oppertunity to pincer.

[walter3kurtz]

 

The map is actually pretty balanced. Even it doesn't look like it.

Cause you have on both sides mountains which block the coverfire from a to b or c to b and vice a versa.

But both mountain sides offer the oppertunity to pincer.

 

The islands next to C are smaller, and there is a nice big island on the way to B that you can hide your BB behind. So no, not very balanced. I think strict mirror is much better (as is the case in all serious RTS I played).

[anonym_i2RxUTEMphjW]

I do think the map is unbalanced by the way, if you spawn on the north side and go for C, it's easier to cover that cap from B due to the mountain layout.

 

Agree, that strait in E7 is one of the sweetests spots in whole game (and as i posted first, one of my favourite hunting places for Dunk or New Mex) where 1 ship can stop whole flank, plus flanking fire from the very centrum is easier.

But tactically it's one of the best maps in the game, the problem is what people tend to do here...

[Venom_Too]

 

The islands next to C are smaller, and there is a nice big island on the way to B that you can hide your BB behind. So no, not very balanced. I think strict mirror is much better (as is the case in all serious RTS I played).

 

Those islands are mirrored.. the only diffrence is that on c the island to b is further apart from the other islands...

[EsaTuunanen]

B+C.

Enemy DD near A can always interrupt your DDs. Even cruisers might manage that.

Destroyer starting in south is guaranteed to get into A well before enemy and having good view to enemy's approach path.

While having easy and fast access to cover of islands in case of facing major enemy push without support.

And if enemy doesn't have support gunboat can just drive lone torpedo boat away.

 

In comparison destroyer going to C possibly faces already capping destroyer while having very little clue how much support it has.

There might be literally half the team coming into C from behind those islands!

And if there's radar cruiser among them your chances to get into cover in time to avoid heavy damage are bad.

While from A destroyer can retreat into solid 100% proof shell cover of islands if radar cruiser is approaching.

 

 

If you go to A in DD you give B to enemy. Enemy controlling B will make it hard for your team to support you at A. IMO both DDs should move to B and once this is capped move to C.

And if enemy gets A freely with major force fast in there they can flank your attack to B and get fast hits to juicy broadsides...

[anonym_i2RxUTEMphjW]

 

Those islands are mirrored.. the only diffrence is that on c the island to b is further apart from the other islands...

 

And that's exactly the thing

Around C you can use Fuso or stg. Around A even Dunkerque has problems.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

When spawning north-west, I either rush A or intercept the southern "potato waters" while still being able to quickly get into the cap, depending on the ship I have. 

When spawning north-east, the islands are less favourable for that so I stick somewhere between B and C and do what the fleet does once we get some recon.

 

When spawning south-west, I usually rush A and take a sharp turn towards B to get that island cover while still trying to cap if possible.

When spawning south-east, I take a look at C but usually end up alone there as the rest of the team either enters the northern "potato waters" (no good place to fight unlike the southern ones) or they turn away entirely. So I may end up near B, depending on opposition at C.

[Venom_Too]

 

And that's exactly the thing

 

But in that case you can either go supp B and get fu**ed from the flank as mentioned in the blue lines. Or you Cover C ... and B rolls over you.. So where exactly is the advantage ?

Got the Same on the other side.. either you go C and cover .. can't cover B... or vice a versa..

 

If you loose B... you're pretty f** and it is no diffrence if you north or south.

[anonym_i2RxUTEMphjW]

Of course it depends if some enemy could come from B to bite your [edited]if you put yourself in E7 spot. If it is, then you should turn into B instead of flanking C.

But if some of the team is going into B and you can flank, then the difference is:
- coming from north into blue lines you have a good view into med-close aproach to C, place to manoeuver and a perfect cover from B
- coming from south into red line you either pack yourself into very narrow sound without good view into A approach, or you stay in open from B direction.

So in short, a ship in north can choose between pushing B and flanking C; south can only push B, fast flanking of A is much harder.

[iJoby]

More topics like this please

[Venom_Too]

Of course it depends if some enemy could come from B to bite your [edited]if you put yourself in E7 spot. If it is, then you should turn into B instead of flanking C.

 

But if some of the team is going into B and you can flank, then the difference is:

- coming from north into blue lines you have a good view into med-close aproach to C, place to manoeuver and a perfect cover from B

- coming from south into red line you either pack yourself into very narrow sound without good view into A approach, or you stay in open from B direction.

 

So in short, a ship in north can choose between pushing B and flanking C; south can only push B, fast flanking of A is much harder.

 

What you all forget, which also happens often to me, you are not able to cover 2 sides simultaniously cause of turret traverse....

With this in Mind... A lot of diffrent points of views open.

[ajb13]

From the south you should go for A&B.

 

Ships with smoke can take A while covered by others moving slowly in the gaps between the islands. B needs all the support it can get to take it quickly so that it can then be defended while supporting A by firing on any enemy moves on it from the flank. You then just have to look out for the enemies from C moving on B around that big island to it's east.

 

Going for C usually takes a major effort, one that weakens your attempts on the other two, and you usually only get it at the cost of losing A&B. If only a couple of ships go to C they usually get overwhelmed and driven back or sunk while only delaying it's capture for a short while. Of course sometimes you can get C on the cheap if the enemy doesn't really go for it and pushes for A&B themselves, but this rarely happens.

 

What usually happens in far to many games though is that both sides go for A&C, leaving B to be fought over by 1 or 2 ships per side, often just 2 DD's siting on either side of the island hoping that someone on their team will eventually come to help them.

[lup3s]

South: A&B

North: B&C

 

I don't know why players from the south spawn would prefer going C. It's the furthest cap from your spawn and you have no cover or way to retreat. Usually it's a potato death trap (same applies to A for players from the north spawn).

Unless the enemy team at the north is also that stupid to sail towards A and not support their DD(s) at C; but at the start of the battle you can't know this and you can't wait for sufficient information to make a decision. Fast-cap A (south) or C (north) is key for this map in my opinion.

 

And please don't be the guy to go around the outer islands (especially Battleships). You don't have the speed for it and you'll isolate yourself from the battle far too long.

[urr027]

How I think is this. As a DD player I always want to have an OP situation in a cap, that way you are more likely to win the cap, possibly severely damage the enemy DD or in the best case even get it killed. Say you have two DDs per team, the enemy is likely to split DDs to AB or BC. Pushing B with both DDs plus support from the team can give you early advantage. What you do next (A or C) then depends on what the enemy does.