0 damage pens; how some happen

[Unintentional_submarine]

I thought about a more pretentious title like "0 damage pens: Mystery SOLVED!" "Why 0 damage pens happen", but really it wasn't me so much as a community thing, also this only explains why some happen.

 

Ok, so we have run into a lot of crappy situations where we land some penetrations and get 0 damage from them. This is incredibly frustrating in battleships, but all classes suffer from it (it is just less obvious in classes with higher fire rates and more shells).

So far the theory has been that turrets, secondaries and AA have eaten most of those, while damage saturation has covered the rest. But most of us (I assume) have probably never felt that this covered the issue well enough. There are simply too many situations where things simply doesn't align well with that theory, not that those things aren't the reason for some of the 0 damage penetrations. For instance shooting at a full HP carrier and getting multiple eaten shells sort of begs the question of what happened. It is hard to gauge exactly how much is covered by that, but I have as of late been thinking it might be a lot less than so far put out.

Now, there has also been an undercurrent of the shell-markers simply being less than accurate, and I thought so too for a while, but now I am certain that if they are, they are a lot less inaccurate than I thought before.

 

Recently I have come across people talking about the hull itself eating shells, and the mention of torpedobulges. Concurrently I have considered this myself, in fact when I tested how effective IFHE would be on 152mm HE just after the patch, I noticed some wonky damage against Amagis in particular. Today I revisited that, with the intention of testing if the torpedobulges do in fact eat shells.

 

Took my trusty Chapayev and set up a lot of Amagis and Iowas. The results were staggering.

 

First went the Amagi.

 

Notice, 11 penetrations and 0 damage. The previous 9 hits were also penetrations for 0 damage. Though it should be noted that I also killed a secondary gun on each salvo, so that accounts for at least two shells total. I kept this up for a good few salvos. Penetrations but no direct damage. This is reliable, as in you can consistently get these penetrations for no damage.

 

Then came the Iowas.

 Again, a lot of penetrations for no damage. The single non-pen was a shell hitting the upper belt which is 38mm and thus immune to even IFHE 152mm. Again this is wholly reliable, and after only a few more salvos I had seen what I needed to.

 

What is the cause of this?

 This is. Take note of where my mouse cursor is, and the extent of the plates in question. Amagi's torpedobulge is absolutely huge, covering the belt entirely, save for the extension towards the stern.

And Iowa's 'bulge' is just the way her belt was laid out, it being internal. In fact I long wondered how they handled a ship with an internal belt, but with nothing but empty space between the skin and the belt. Well, it seems this is how.

 

So, torpedobulges do in fact eat up a lot of penetrations, but the damage 'lost' would never have been done in the first place. So at least there is that. I mean I assumed as much, but now I know that if there are any truly lost penetrations, they are likely to be very few indeed.

 

What should be done about this? Preferably the game should discount these empty areas as ship structure. Pen or non-pen, it doesn't matter if a pen doesn't do damage, just count it as a non-pen in that case.

It is annoying as hell that you can't rely on the shell markers to tell you what happened to the shell. I mean if a shell penetrates the bulge of an Amagi but is defeated by the main belt, causing no damage, then arguably that shell didn't penetrate at all. I know that it is probably not too easy to make special rules for certain conditions, but the bulges are already special in that they can be penetrated, as seen by the game's code, and not cause any damage to the target. It would just be expanding on that.

 

I hope that this was helpful to at least some people. I'm sure that there are more than a few who have suspected this for a good while. But my experience is that most people have in fact no considered this possibility. Hopefully I have shed some light on a very annoying issue.

[Corvi]

And whats the magic armor that eats up plunging fire from Yamato into the Deck of a Zao from 18km with 4 penetrations but 0 dmg ?

[AwesomeChicken]

And whats the magic armor that eats up plunging fire from Yamato into the Deck of a Zao from 18km with 4 penetrations but 0 dmg ?

 

Might have hit the turrets

[Corvi]

 

Might have hit the turrets

 

Still dont understand why that doesnt deal hitpoint damage ..

[NoirLotus]

The penetration ribbons are extremely inaccurate. Sometimes, it tells you that you have a satandard penetration but zero damage, or it can tell you you have scored an overpenetration for 5k damage.

 

Just don't trust them, and only look at the damage done.

[HotshotJimmy]

I've only ever done 2-5 cits on Des Moines. Sometimes I get amazing damage done, sometimes I get zilch. RNG people haha.

[AwesomeChicken]

 

Still dont understand why that doesnt deal hitpoint damage ..

 

Cause its only module dmg. Any hit on a module will only cause dmg to the module itself, until its hp pool reaches zero.

Why it works that way?

Well just imagine all HE hits on AA guns would deal dmg to the ship itself... ships like the Amagi (with lots of AA guns) would be fucked.

[gm3ntor]

 

Cause its only module dmg. Any hit on a module will only cause dmg to the module itself, until its hp pool reaches zero.

Why it works that way?

Well just imagine all HE hits on AA guns would deal dmg to the ship itself... ships like the Amagi (with lots of AA guns) would be fucked.

 

And how do u explain there are no "module incapacitated/destroyed" pop-up icons if u hit turrets/modules?

[AwesomeChicken]

 

And how do u explain there are no "module incapacitated/destroyed" pop-up icons if u hit turrets/modules?

 

Cause the turret itself still has hp left and is therefore still operable.

 

[gm3ntor]

 

Cause the turret itself still has hp left and is therefore still operable.

 

 

yeah 460mm shell passing through a lil turret/AA gun doesn't destroy it.. ofc WG logic

[AwesomeChicken]

 

yeah 460mm shell passing through a lil turret/AA gun doesn't destroy it.. ofc WG logic

 

Because losing 2 of your 3 turrets in the first salvo that hit you was so much fun.

[Azalgor]

Tell me the magic that alowes destroyers to bounce BB shells?

[Arctic_Nation]

 

Because losing 2 of your 3 turrets in the first salvo that hit you was so much fun.

 

Secondaries don't operate on the same logic as main turrets.

[Goats_Beard]

 

Cause its only module dmg. Any hit on a module will only cause dmg to the module itself, until its hp pool reaches zero.

Why it works that way?

Well just imagine all HE hits on AA guns would deal dmg to the ship itself... ships like the Amagi (with lots of AA guns) would be fucked.

 

If that's correct, how would you explain this? 

 

[AwesomeChicken]

Let me guess... detontation?                                          
An HE shell landed on the water next to you and the splash detonated your ship.
*Fun and engaging game mechanics*

               

[Larky2k]

This question has already been answered and nothing to do with the Torpedo Bulge. Its called Damage saturation each part of a ship has a hidden health bar when it hits 0 no damage will be dealt. the only damage that can be down is with fires. to prove it shoot at the ship at the front where the Torpedo Bulge isn't and same thing will happen.

 

Right but not when firing HE into 40mm ish of side Armour.

[Corvi]

This question has already been answered and nothing to do with the Torpedo Bulge. Its called Damage saturation each part of a ship has a hidden health bar when it hits 0 no damage will be dealt. the only damage that can be down is with fires. to prove it shoot at the ship at the front where the Torpedo Bulge isn't and same thing will happen.

 

Sorry bit thats complete [edited]. You can blow a Yamato salvo into a completely undamaged ship and still get 0 dmg hits all over the place.

[Larky2k]

 

Sorry bit thats complete [edited]. You can blow a Yamato salvo into a completely undamaged ship and still get 0 dmg hits all over the place.

 

test it it not bull. Aaroon actually did a video on this shooting torpedoes at one point of ship till his Torpedos did 0 damge

[Goats_Beard]

Let me guess... detontation?                                          

An HE shell landed on the water next to you and the splash detonated your ship.

*Fun and engaging game mechanics*

               

 

I checked the score/achievements at the time as that was my first thought but according to that it wasn't a detonation. Has me puzzled, maybe rng just decided his time was up or it's a bug in the reporting.

[Larky2k]

 

Sorry bit thats complete [edited]. You can blow a Yamato salvo into a completely undamaged ship and still get 0 dmg hits all over the place.

 

ok iv tested it and my conclusion is the OP is firing HE into 40mm of Armour (give or take 5mm) fire AP and watch the damage go up. i was Firing and doing 0 damage but switched to AP and did 12 Citadels in 1 salvo. I was firing at the Iowa and not in the bulge. so its just the armour negating the damage.

[Corvi]

 

test it it not bull. Aaroon actually did a video on this shooting torpedoes at one point of ship till his Torpedos did 0 damge

 

I know what damage saturation is mate, but thats not what the post was about. Explain me please which part of Kurfürst is so dmg saturated that it just ate 3 460mm AP penetrations at 17km without taking any dmg. 

 

 

 

 

ok iv tested it and my conclusion is the OP is firing HE into 40mm of Armour (give or take 5mm) fire AP and watch the damage go up. i was Firing and doing 0 damage but switched to AP and did 12 Citadels in 1 salvo. I was firing at the Iowa and not in the bulge. so its just the armour negating the damage.

 

 

You can see on the screenshots that hes shooting HE. 

[Larky2k]

 

I know what damage saturation is mate, but thats not what the post was about. Explain me please which part of Kurfürst is so dmg saturated that it just ate 3 460mm AP penetrations at 17km without taking any dmg. 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see on the screenshots that hes shooting HE. 

 

i know he firing HE i tested it with HE and its the armour Negating the damage if he shot higher he would of done damage as there super structure to hit. in your Picture you prob hit the turret which has it own health pool which isn't part of the ship. In all Honesty its probably like WoT and its spaced armour IE its 25mm + 32mm which makes it 57mm of armour that be the reason hes doing 0 damage and that's why you fire AP at that range. 

[Unintentional_submarine]

Dude, did you even see that the HE gave PENETRATIONS! You don't get penetrations if you don't penetrate the plating you hit. If I had shot into 40mm plating, which Amagi has none of, there wouldn't have been a single penetration marker. It would have been filled with non-penetration markers, the shell breaking up marker.

 

That is the entire point of the thread. We have situations where we get penetrations where it can't be damage saturation, nor turrets eating the damage. And I just provided a situation where it can happen.

Also, the HE on my Chapayev can penetrate the 32mm plating on an Amagi, which is the plating behind that torpedobulge for a great extent of it. Basically there is a dead zone where you can't penetrate the vulnerable parts due to the torpedobulge.

 

Hence why I asked that when the torpedobulge eats shells like this, they are counted as non-pens, rather than 0 damage penetrations.

[Aotearas]

That's odd, since I could swear the fat torpedo bulge on the Warspite is what makes her eat so much damage even angled. Because surely its belt armour is supposed to bounce 356mm AP shells at an angle in the excess of 70° or block if they got a lucky non-bounce RNG roll, right?

I always thought the AP shells penetrated the torpedo bulge, then bounced off the belt yet the game would register that as a normal penetration with the accompanied damage.

 

Warspite, y u so flimsy?

 

[nerderklaus]

I frequently get these 0 damage pens and overpens with AP on full HP ships as well... I didn't have this during Summer, but suddenly after a couple of months without ships it was pretty damn common.