Feed back from the Facebook debacle today

[anonym_j17GKWzHKZAZ]

Another lost 50 min watching probably the most spin I have ever seen from W.G to date. In order before I could not honestly stand watching any more of this.......... I watched it with an open mind and heart at the beginning, however I saw nothing other than spin. smarmy comments from Mr Conway and world class dancing around the elephant in the room..... Objective points below (I tried really really hard not to get personal)

 

1. RDF / RL - DD hunting & to find remaining surviving ships? Sub - Octavian see's no evidence of influence in the 2 iterations run on the test server? News flash people there is & it does. You can manipulate stats to suit any point YOU want to make of it. I have never seen such a "Nelsonian" response along the lines of "What signal Hardy, I see no signal". Faster games means faster revenue increase for W.G. pure and simple
2. Sub Octavian stating that it is "Situational" - it appears he is unable or incapable of seeing past HIS point of view or desired strategy. Fact remains to the greater part of the player base it is beyond stupid. If WG relies on the "super tester's & devs responsible for the R.N. cruiser / German DD debacles, coupled with killing the IJN DD line with the latest patch, then this game is officially FUBAR....... 
3. Aggressive BB play was possible under the old meta, particularly with 1 nations line - you guys caused this situation and this appears nothing more than a badly timed, badly actioned knee jerk reaction - it is the main reason that I loved the German line
4. Captain skill changes HAVE changed the meta of this game, those who have played this game for 2+ years are overnight are expected to change our play styles, WHy? this was not explained, rather than a "dev" expressing his desires / direction. Where is thedirector of strategy, I know it is not Sub Octavian. Now we still have to pay for changing the Captains skill's etc. I saw this as another cynical way for WG to up its revenue stream. Does anyone expect the current reallocation cost to be revised to reflect the lower skill's available? However consider the cost of revising YOUR skill set to match the shifting of the goal posts. Get ready to open your wallets wider.......
5. Skill configuration by class - not all classes are the same are they? Each COUNTRY has its different rule set - there is no golden rivet commonality, otherwise R.N. would have the HE option to be somewhat more competitive with other nations (for example)

 

My eyes glassed over at this point, I could not take anymore of the spin. And Mr Conway, you are a community contributor - who gives a big rats arse about your opinion? You are not a designer, coder or management member of WG as far as I am aware, so I see nothing of value in your input.

 

Guys, really have tried to be objective here, others more eloquent that I have stated far better cases, like others I will not be renewing my premium when it expires in 50 something days, my days of buying premium ships are gone.  I urge you all to think long and hard about the current patch and its effect on the game that started out with so much promise, yet appears to be poised on heading down the WoT cliff,

 

Thank you in advance for any constructive comments or feedback with your ideas or comments on that stream. To those who I may have upset by posting this - sorry I am beyond care

 

Sincerely

 

Warthog

 

[Jethro_Grey]

I haven't watched it, was busy trying to get used to the new effed up captain skills. Nothing you wrote here surprises me, WG - like many other companys - tries to twist and bend things into a form which most users can digest. And they fail miserably, every single time (xmas convoys spring to mind).

And yes, some of the new skills are as shitty as most folks say and i'm not going to write them here as there have been enough threads about them.

 

My verdict: they need to go - asap.

 

You are also right that they indeed changed the meta, for the worse.

Now, not only BBs are sitting back like pu$$ies, now cruisers and DDs do the same.

Good job WG!

 

 

[krautjaeger]

An hour of patting each other on their backs for a "job well done" is what I saw. I'm struggling and not with the skills, because I can compensate, but with wanting to play a game. I sat for over six hours just switching to the client, then back to something else. To me the biggest let down wasn't necessarily the release of a skills-update, nor was it RPF, but the total and blatant refusal to listen to the world wide communities like they just put their heads over their ears and went 'la la la'. I've been part of many different gaming communities over the years, and the common thing that made me leave was when developers ignored the communities and did what ever they thought was best. Many of these games have shut down, those that are left have so few players in an evening you can barely call it a community now. WoWs EU, and not really the other regions either, does not have a huge player base. One or two consecutive eff-ups and you may very well lose half the base. When new guys check out the game, looks at the server populace and think "I'm not sinking cash in to this game before I see more people online" they have a problem. What will they do? Should they change something drastically yet again? Will that increase or decrease server populace? And once you get there you need a nigh on miracle to reboot a game and get it up and going again, to be fair I've never seen it done although I have not played all the games out there.

 

WG has admitted doing things the wrong way before, and we have applauded them and forgiven them for it. I really do hope they go through all the comments again, new ones too, and either change or better yet do a rollback. One can at least hope.

[mtm78]

I actually got this from it:

 

1. RDF is a trail, PT doesn't give us figures how it affects live server, it's mainly a big ' bug test ' and it doesn't indicate changes to meta. But we don't want RDF to be that influential and more importantly we don't want it to be widespread. If we see that to many people are using it we will remove the skill rather than introduce a counter skill like ' silent running '. 

 

2. IJN DD's are NOT fine, they are problematic and we already have ideas on how to fix them but we need even more statistical data from after the line split to ensure we apply those ideas on the right ships in the tree and in the right ' order of magnitude '.

 

Both of those points were my biggest problems with how the developers were approaching the current meta. 

 

I might not uninstall... 

[vlad_palanthir_78]

I actually got this from it:

 

1. RDF is a trail, PT doesn't give us figures how it affects live server, it's mainly a big ' bug test ' and it doesn't indicate changes to meta. But we don't want RDF to be that influential and more importantly we don't want it to be widespread. If we see that to many people are using it we will remove the skill rather than introduce a counter skill like ' silent running '. 

 

2. IJN DD's are NOT fine, they are problematic and we already have ideas on how to fix them but we need even more statistical data from after the line split to ensure we apply those ideas on the right ships in the tree and in the right ' order of magnitude '.

 

Both of those points were my biggest problems with how the developers were approaching the current meta. 

 

I might not uninstall... 

 

 

Yeah sure, they will turn IJN DDs into gunboats like all the other lines.

[tenacious_torps]

I actually got this from it:

 

1. RDF is a trail, PT doesn't give us figures how it affects live server, it's mainly a big ' bug test ' and it doesn't indicate changes to meta. But we don't want RDF to be that influential and more importantly we don't want it to be widespread. If we see that to many people are using it we will remove the skill rather than introduce a counter skill like ' silent running '. 

 

Translation: We'll just wait for everybody to calm down and get used to the crap, so will you please? How is that a valid reasoning? We introduce a skill and if people actually use it, we will remove it again? Seriously, wtf? Anyway, doesn't have to be widespread to change the meta, one ship a team is plenty enough. 

 

2. IJN DD's are NOT fine, they are problematic and we already have ideas on how to fix them but we need even more statistical data from after the line split to ensure we apply those ideas on the right ships in the tree and in the right ' order of magnitude '.

 

I shudder to think what those ideas are given what brilliancy already was applied to the line... Anyway, line split is euphemistic, continuous nerfs not warranted by anything in the stats is what actually happened, so there's a pretty good reason to be suspicious right there. 

 

Both of those points were my biggest problems with how the developers were approaching the current meta. 

 

I might not uninstall... 

 

Don't. Switch to BBs only, bring some marshmallows. It's quite nice to sit around the campfire and watch the pretty lights in the distance. Must be, even the DDs are joining in lately. Let's produce the meta and stats that won't leave them much choice but to do something. 

 

[von_Boeg]

I actually got this from it:

 

1. RDF is a trail, PT doesn't give us figures how it affects live server, it's mainly a big ' bug test ' and it doesn't indicate changes to meta. But we don't want RDF to be that influential and more importantly we don't want it to be widespread. If we see that to many people are using it we will remove the skill rather than introduce a counter skill like ' silent running '. 

 

2. IJN DD's are NOT fine, they are problematic and we already have ideas on how to fix them but we need even more statistical data from after the line split to ensure we apply those ideas on the right ships in the tree and in the right ' order of magnitude '.

 

Both of those points were my biggest problems with how the developers were approaching the current meta. 

 

I might not uninstall... 

 

I naturally agree with point 1, but I find point 2 most interesting.

 

I REALLY hope they go back to IJN DDs as long range torpedo boats again, they were different and interesting and should have been kept as they were.

[FaceFisted]

 

I REALLY hope they go back to IJN DDs as long range torpedo boats again, they were different and interesting and should have been kept as they were.

 

No no, we don't need torpedo soup again. I've stopped playing anything above T7 at the time when you couldn't sail anywhere because of shima squads torp spam. On their own IJN DD's are fine, but skills like RDF make them useless. That skill needs to go. Only US and RU DD's have use from them and it breaks game completely.

[anonym_j17GKWzHKZAZ]

So as an addendum,  My unofficial stats from this mornings session from 12 games played:

1. 2 out of 12 for a win rate (Scharnhorst & Fiji wins)
2. 6 games in the T5 German DD (I used to really like this ship) with an 18 point skipper
3. 5 of point 2 games RDF from the start at spawn
4. Same 5 games killed by focus fire / and the usual 2 x CV that the lower tiers seem to be attracting within 1min 30
5. remainder really was due to the superb skill sets displayed by the week-end warriors - I know.... what did I really expect

 

WG for all that is reasonable, all I have heard from your "representatives" is the usual b.s of "in my opinion" or " the stats say". then for the love of god QUANTIFY your position with hard unadulterated fact. I know the response to this will be "Sorry, this information is under N.D.A" or similar & why I am wasting time asking for this beggars belief, but please, help us understand. No body & I mean nobody with a pulse, functioning lungs & maybe 2 brain cells gives a flying toss about your OPINIONS. Give us fact so we (player base, you know the guys who BUY YOUR PRODUCTS) can see IF we are wrong or so badly mentally deficient we can all self present to mental institutions.

 

I have 6.02k games in this alone, I was with WoT for 3 yrs previous 11k games before I declared enough, even with the Christmas debacle & my 38 yrs of Line / Middle / Senior management have I ever seen such a cluster feck - 

 

Sincerely

 

Warthog

[LittleNipper]

Another lost 50 min watching probably the most spin I have ever seen from W.G to date. In order before I could not honestly stand watching any more of this.......... I watched it with an open mind and heart at the beginning, however I saw nothing other than spin. smarmy comments from Mr Conway and world class dancing around the elephant in the room..... Objective points below (I tried really really hard not to get personal)

 

1. RDF / RL - DD hunting & to find remaining surviving ships? Sub - Octavian see's no evidence of influence in the 2 iterations run on the test server? News flash people there is & it does. You can manipulate stats to suit any point YOU want to make of it. I have never seen such a "Nelsonian" response along the lines of "What signal Hardy, I see no signal". Faster games means faster revenue increase for W.G. pure and simple
2. Sub Octavian stating that it is "Situational" - it appears he is unable or incapable of seeing past HIS point of view or desired strategy. Fact remains to the greater part of the player base it is beyond stupid. If WG relies on the "super tester's & devs responsible for the R.N. cruiser / German DD debacles, coupled with killing the IJN DD line with the latest patch, then this game is officially FUBAR....... 
3. Aggressive BB play was possible under the old meta, particularly with 1 nations line - you guys caused this situation and this appears nothing more than a badly timed, badly actioned knee jerk reaction - it is the main reason that I loved the German line
4. Captain skill changes HAVE changed the meta of this game, those who have played this game for 2+ years are overnight are expected to change our play styles, WHy? this was not explained, rather than a "dev" expressing his desires / direction. Where is thedirector of strategy, I know it is not Sub Octavian. Now we still have to pay for changing the Captains skill's etc. I saw this as another cynical way for WG to up its revenue stream. Does anyone expect the current reallocation cost to be revised to reflect the lower skill's available? However consider the cost of revising YOUR skill set to match the shifting of the goal posts. Get ready to open your wallets wider.......
5. Skill configuration by class - not all classes are the same are they? Each COUNTRY has its different rule set - there is no golden rivet commonality, otherwise R.N. would have the HE option to be somewhat more competitive with other nations (for example)

 

My eyes glassed over at this point, I could not take anymore of the spin. And Mr Conway, you are a community contributor - who gives a big rats arse about your opinion? You are not a designer, coder or management member of WG as far as I am aware, so I see nothing of value in your input.

 

Guys, really have tried to be objective here, others more eloquent that I have stated far better cases, like others I will not be renewing my premium when it expires in 50 something days, my days of buying premium ships are gone.  I urge you all to think long and hard about the current patch and its effect on the game that started out with so much promise, yet appears to be poised on heading down the WoT cliff,

 

Thank you in advance for any constructive comments or feedback with your ideas or comments on that stream. To those who I may have upset by posting this - sorry I am beyond care

 

Sincerely

 

Warthog

 

 

Captain skill changes HAVE changed the meta of this game = i perfectly agree, from night to day, i must change again my playing style, WG, thks again..... why do you do this?'! why? when things go correctly you nerf em.

[Admiral_noodle]

I watched it all and enjoyed it. Of course it was a bit self congratulatory. Watch any other game dev stream. They are always like that.

 

However awkward questions were put. Sub_Octavian answered, honestly I think, and even said if RPF turns out to be making a mess they will do something about it.

 

He also hinted Bastion might go

 

He confirmed there were too many BBs.

 

So I don't know what you guys expected. Of course he's "defending" RPF. And I kind of agree with him about it not affecting the game "overall". I don't think it will be used much or have a great effect.

 

I think it should be removed as a skill but not because it's OP and will ruin the game. I have more subtle reasons based on how it is utterly situational and varies wildly in power (from broken through useless to a liability) depending on game.

 

But devs are still entitled to their own opinions. And while I disagree over RPF I *respectfully* disagree.

[MrWastee]

indeed to me it boils down to: use it, abuse it! on as many ships as u can. then we might get rid of it. yet i refused to assign skills on most ca's and dd's. they're all with rpf now .... don't like it, will use it. hope for it to go!!!

[anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER]

I have rightly apologised to Mr Conway and Tuccy, we all make mistakes and i always apologise when wrong

[Karasu_Browarszky]

I agree. After the patch no matter what skills I try to pick for my high tier BB captains (mostly NC, Iowa and Bismarck) nothing really works. True, they are not 19 point captains but before the patch I was doing ok, now I seen my damage potential plummet faster than the Titanic flounders.

 

At the risk of quoting myself, I copy paste here what I posted earlier:

 

Pretty much every single battle in BB I've played since patch has sucked. My damage is about 25-40% of what I used to be able to do.

 

The problem is, I was able to do a versatile build with 16 points. With 19 points I could have achieved this:

http://shipcomrade.com/skillcalc/01100001000110001000000100

 

Now.. 19 points gives me something that falls short:

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/10000000100000001000100100000001

 

So with Bismarck now I get about 22-25k rounds. By comparison, T5 König with completely reset Captain (zero points) 66k+ round...

 

At this point I am prepared to say that the new captain skill points is a major disappointment.

 

While initially I thought, nice.. with the highest level now 'only' 4 points this will give us a better chance to customize our captains skill profiles.

 

Reality check

 

In effect, trying to make a versatile build that allows for versatile game play now costs much more in terms of points than before. Well.. what about highly customized profiles? I am sure those will work for the more experienced players, for us casual players this looks like really bad news. I haven't tried out DDs at all yet, cruisers seem to benefit slightly. BBs, in my experience, really suffer though I have heard contrary opinions as well.

 

Fun factor zero. engage.

[mtm78]

So with Bismarck now I get about 22-25k rounds. By comparison, T5 König with completely reset Captain (zero points) 66k+ round...

 

Because Konig is a seal clubber

 

Ow and you played two games in Konig in the last 7 days, with an average damage of 44k. 

 

https://eu.warships.today/player/515980954/Browarszky

[Karasu_Browarszky]

 

Because Konig is a seal clubber

 

Ow and you played two games in Konig in the last 7 days, with an average damage of 44k. 

 

https://eu.warships.today/player/515980954/Browarszky

 

Both with reset captain with no skill points whatsoever. I am beginning to think I'd do better assigning no skill points to my Bismarck captain either...

 

I know I am a below average player, but before the patch my rounds ranged from totally frustrating to extremely fun and even profitable games where I could contribute to the overall team result. And mostly with BB's.

[mtm78]

 

Both with reset captain with no skill points whatsoever. I am beginning to think I'd do better assigning no skill points to my Bismarck captain either...

 

I know I am a below average player, but before the patch my rounds ranged from totally frustrating to extremely fun and even profitable games where I could contribute to the overall team result. And mostly with BB's.

 

The new skill tree is much wider and it's natural there are much more variable builds. Also, I actually was to harsh, you previously had more usable 1 point skills especially for BB's. So getting an working build might have been easier with lower point captains then it might be now.

 

Can you post your captain build ( for Bismarck )? You can use shipcomrade's captain skill calculator -> http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc

 

Maybe we can help a bit

[Talladega_Night]

is there a link to this stream?  would like to watch it

[Gnirf]

I agree. After the patch no matter what skills I try to pick for my high tier BB captains (mostly NC, Iowa and Bismarck) nothing really works. True, they are not 19 point captains but before the patch I was doing ok, now I seen my damage potential plummet faster than the Titanic flounders.

 

At the risk of quoting myself, I copy paste here what I posted earlier:

 

Pretty much every single battle in BB I've played since patch has sucked. My damage is about 25-40% of what I used to be able to do.

 

The problem is, I was able to do a versatile build with 16 points. With 19 points I could have achieved this:

http://shipcomrade.com/skillcalc/01100001000110001000000100

 

Now.. 19 points gives me something that falls short:

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/10000000100000001000100100000001

 

So with Bismarck now I get about 22-25k rounds. By comparison, T5 König with completely reset Captain (zero points) 66k+ round...

 

At this point I am prepared to say that the new captain skill points is a major disappointment.

 

While initially I thought, nice.. with the highest level now 'only' 4 points this will give us a better chance to customize our captains skill profiles.

 

Reality check

 

In effect, trying to make a versatile build that allows for versatile game play now costs much more in terms of points than before. Well.. what about highly customized profiles? I am sure those will work for the more experienced players, for us casual players this looks like really bad news. I haven't tried out DDs at all yet, cruisers seem to benefit slightly. BBs, in my experience, really suffer though I have heard contrary opinions as well.

 

Fun factor zero. engage.

 

 

 

I am struggling also how to do a reasonable build but we must give it a little time.

 

 

 

 

And also recognize that while for example BoS and BFT have gone expensive so it has for your opponents.

It is a common fallacy in many aspects of change that only recognizing your own difficulties. I have not yet determined any Changes for my dmg (feeling as the games are too few) other than for IJN DDs.

If they are so for you it is also a question if those differences may be from META play changes or that you have lost skills that suited your playstyle better than others so can you adapt in that case?

 

 

I am probing around taking a few ships and testing them as I am not sure whether build for survivablity or offensive traits, have most BB captains around 11-15 p so the 19 p builds I am far from yet.

As they also have hinted on Changes in premium consumables which will increase value of survivabilty skills I am really wondering what is the best long term choices - have around 100 captains so it is not cheap to choose wrong.

 

 

 

 

[Capra76]

So with Bismarck now I get about 22-25k rounds. By comparison, T5 König with completely reset Captain (zero points) 66k+ round...

 

At this point I am prepared to say that the new captain skill points is a major disappointment.

 

I've said this a few times before, I think one of the aims of the new skill tree was an indirect nerf to Bismarck and buff to other BB.  Bismarck has to go for a full secondary build but loses out on some very useful survival skills.

[Capra76]

2. IJN DD's are NOT fine, they are problematic and we already have ideas on how to fix them but we need even more statistical data from after the line split to ensure we apply those ideas on the right ships in the tree and in the right ' order of magnitude '.

 

The question is what is meant by "not fine" ?  Does he mean they are "high skill cap" and need to be made better or does he mean there are still too many of them at certain tiers and they need to be nerfed further?

 

 

Both of those points were my biggest problems with how the developers were approaching the current meta. 

 

My big problem is they seem to be deliberately ignoring the most obvious issue that is the balance between BB and CA/CL.

[Dominico]

 

I've said this a few times before, I think one of the aims of the new skill tree was an indirect nerf to Bismarck and buff to other BB.  Bismarck has to go for a full secondary build but loses out on some very useful survival skills.

 

This is good and the skill trees are working brilliantly.

 

I love them how you have to now make choices early on to pick the skills. Though a super leveled captain can still take a lot of  skills.

 

You should have to choose your specialisation. If you want the superpowered secondaries in bismarck  you should lose out on other things imo.

[salva_barbus]

I actually got this from it:

 

1. RDF is a trail, PT doesn't give us figures how it affects live server, it's mainly a big ' bug test ' and it doesn't indicate changes to meta. But we don't want RDF to be that influential and more importantly we don't want it to be widespread. If we see that to many people are using it we will remove the skill rather than introduce a counter skill like ' silent running '. 

 

2. IJN DD's are NOT fine, they are problematic and we already have ideas on how to fix them but we need even more statistical data from after the line split to ensure we apply those ideas on the right ships in the tree and in the right ' order of magnitude '.

 

Both of those points were my biggest problems with how the developers were approaching the current meta. 

 

I might not uninstall... 

 

For the love of ${DEITY}, let your thoughts be correct... for the moment, I've effectively shelved my IJN DDs (apart from the occasional Isokaze sealclubbing).

[Ectar_]

My eyes glassed over at this point, I could not take anymore of the spin. And Mr Conway, you are a community contributor - who gives a big rats arse about your opinion? You are not a designer, coder or management member of WG as far as I am aware, so I see nothing of value in your input.

 

 

Community Coordinator. 

 

The Community team are the link between company and players. They have to relay information to the developers/producers in a way they can relate to (not for example feedback such as "This is crap, I don't like RDF or "Carriers are op")

At the same time they have to filter back the developer/producer talk into something more understandable.  ("Carriers are fine"  "RDF is fine")  -  WHY is it crap, WHY don't you like RDF, WHY do you think carriers are op?  HOW do you think carriers should be change?  -  WHY are carriers fine? Based on what info?  WHY is RDF fine? How should players use it/deal with it?

 

Getting clear feedback and explainations isn't always easy. Some player feedback is just straight up salt from regular doombringers and others just won't see things from a different point of view (if i don't get the answer I want, all other answers are wrong no matter how much evidence/well written the reply is). 

On the flip side sometimes devs/producers see things purely based on numbers and don't appreciate player sentiment.  Watching the numbers too much can also take the "fun" out of games as encounters/tactics become predictable and the skill factor gets removed.

 

 

Now Community team members give their opinions because they can. Don't dismiss someone else's feedback/views whilst putting yourself on a high horse and telling everyone your opinion is all that matters.  You have to appreciate not everyone agrees on the same topic and people should be free to share their own views without fear of being slienced by people who feel their view is more important.

 

When it comes to the Community, you all have individual voices. You don't all want the same thing and you can NEVER say "we" and assume you're speaking for any kind of majority.  The Community Team bust a gut gathering feedback across various different sources and making sure that info is passed on.  Just because you might not get the answers you want, it doesn't mean no one is listening.

 

In short, don't shoot the messengers. They're your voice, they're the first people in the firing line and they do a dam hard job for little recognition. Hate something about the game? Ship balance? Ability issue? Weekend special? pricing of a ship? Localization error? Website error? Game crashing?- Community team is who hears is first.  

 

Got something cool to announce to the players - Devs/Producers will do that in a nice video for you. Feedback on the video? - Community Team will take that for you  

[nerderklaus]

Well, people who play a tier 10 unit of the most survivable class with corner camping, fail hard at it and WG priveleging these people... It's repetition of what destroyed WOT. The modders and the general camper culture did a lot of harm as well (f.e. tomatoes seing the people who are supposed to be good all the time and reacting according to it). However, retarded users (close to playing it exclusively, not something like 35% HT, 30% MT, 25% LT, 10% TD) of the most survivable class