RDF is there another way?

[Procrastes]

I shall return to the hole from whence i came

 

Please don't do that, we do need constructive input.

And we shouldn't give the battle up for lost, and assume the game is broken for good.

 

Having said this, I too am sceptical to the odds of getting Wargaming to abolish, or even change, RPF at this stage. It's their continued silence in relation to the ongoing discussion that bugs me the most, more than the decision itself - I'd understand if they said they were going to introduce the skill in spite of the criticism, and then evaluate its effect, or something along those lines. But as it is - not a sound from them.

 

As for making the skill into a consumable, well, if getting that consumable would require a 4-point skill, then I agree with mtm78 above - no one would take that. So there would be no point in making that kind of change; at least not straight away. The same would probably go for making RPF into something that just "pings" once a minute; it would be so situational that it would not be worth 4 points. Still, it would be a lot better than the skill as it is now, I give you that.

Introducing some kind of Radio Silence counter-mechanic would probably have the same effect of making RPC an unchoosable skill, and it might also cripple the spotting mechanics (there have been other posts about this idea).

 

As for me, I am currently hoping that an enemy battleship that uses RPF to spot my otherwise flawless island torpedo ambush, will thereby have sacrificed his Advanced Firing Training, and will thus have rendered his secondary batteries unable to stop my heroic torpedo death charge in time to save his shiny metal arse from certain doom. And that he'll be lamenting that foolish choice all the way to the bottom!

[Procrastes]

I had a battle on test server with rdf and chased 3 dds down and killed em with a brit cruiser

would I have killed em without it? probably but by god it was damned easy to chase em and miss all their torps cos I know which direction they would come from

its a stuffed up skill and people will soon find out how bad it is

 

This is disconcerting.

And it confirms certain theories, that RPF will predominately be a cruiser DD-hunting skill, rather than a given thing for battleships.

[xxNihilanxx]

While I applaud your attempts to turn the conversation in a more constructive direction I do feel you are just wasting effort here because, as others have said, the very concept behind RDF is totally flawed. A more pertinent topic would have been to ask why, considering that the people on the forum are representative of the playerbase as a whole, WG are intent on introducing something that has been shown, in multiple polls on multiple occasions, to be totally despised by 90% of their customers? The complete and utter disregard that they are showing here is indicative of arrogance on an immense scale.

 

After the whole Santa's Convoy debacle I had hoped that there would be an improvement in communication between WG and the playerbase but here we are, yet again, screaming wildly at a brick wall. The mind boggles.

 

I, for one, am genuinely concerned that the introduction of this ridiculous idea will greatly reduce the amount of enjoyment I find in the game, particularly at the higher tiers, so, while it may not cause me to leave the game entirely, I can see it leading to me just sticking to the lower tiers a lot more often and I imagine many others will feel the same. How this will impact the new player experience I can only guess as I can foresee players coming into the game, reaching tier 4 and being clubbed mercilessly and relentlessly in almost every match.

 

 

[mikelight1805]

Going on WGs track record, i would be amazed if RDF is going to be dropped. I am almost certain that RDF is coming in some form or another.  I was hoping we could find a way of changing it into something more palatable. I know it is leaving a bad taste in many players mouths, and i fully understand that. Instead of the like it or lump it attitude i had hoped as a community we could say "No!, but do it this way instead"

[xxNihilanxx]

OK, if you want a suggestion, then change it such that the "arc indicator" flashes up once in the direction of the nearest ship then disappears and will only flash up once again when/if another ship becomes the nearest one.

 

Edit: In this form it would be totally useless and nobody would take it but at least it would give WG the chance to introduce the new skills tree whilst maintaining the symmetry* of the skills table thus buying them time to think of a suitable replacement.

 

*I say this because the ONLY reason I can think of why WG would continue with the introduction of this idea is because they want the skill table to to be four rows deep with two skills in each of the columns and they don't have time to develop a replacement or any idea what the replacement could be.

[EmilyFara]

It should not just show the closest ship, but all ships. Drown you in information. On top of that give ships a radio silence toggle. This would prevent rdf from finding you, but also stops team communication and you need to do all your spotting yourself and not give ship positions to other people.

[Procrastes]

OK, if you want a suggestion, then change it such that the "arc indicator" flashes up once in the direction of the nearest ship then disappears and will only flash up once again when/if another ship becomes the nearest one.

 

I guess that might work.

But having it "ping" once every 60 seconds or so, as suggested by mikelight above, is probably a better alternative, if it's going to be a practical skill choice. Although I doubt that the skill would remain at tier 4, it that was implemented.

 

It should be noted that I still prefer that WG scraps the RPF skill altogether.

[Procrastes]

On top of that give ships a radio silence toggle. This would prevent rdf from finding you, but also stops team communication and you need to do all your spotting yourself and not give ship positions to other people.

 

This would likely break the spotting mechanics completely, since a lot of DD:s would just maintain permanent radio silence.

[Procrastes]

It should not just show the closest ship, but all ships. Drown you in information.

 

I was about to write something silly and cynical about a new skill that allowed you to see all enemy ships, except battleships, marked on the map for a few seconds.

But that would have been just, well, silly and cynical.

So I didn't.

[xxNihilanxx]

 

I was about to write something silly and cynical about a new skill that allowed you to see all enemy ships, except battleships, marked on the map for a few seconds.

But that would have been just, well, silly and cynical.

So I didn't.

 

Kudos for not writing something as silly and cynical as that suggestion. It shows great restraint. Well done, that man.

[Date_A_Bullet]

Actually: i hope RDF will be released.

 

And i hope it will stay when clan wars and ranked battles are starting, because that is where this skill will have the biggest impact.

 

Wargaming needs to see how much even more static the gameplay will become, thanks to this masterpiece of a skill.

[Kashuken]

90% of the player base responding to this poll http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/71283-implementation-of-rdf/ are unhappy with RDF in its current form

 

I am sure that considering it has got all the way to public test, that RDF is coming to the game regardless of all the negative rep it is picking up.

 

So, is there another way? I would like to hope there is. So in a constructive way, how could it enter the game in a more acceptable format?

 

As RDF is a passive skill, it cannot be turned off. So, how about making it "ping" like sonar would. Every 30 or 45 seconds, you get a RDF ping that shows the sector that the nearest enemy ship is? It could be a broad sector, between 30 and 45 degrees. The player being pinged should still get the warning on screen like in the current test to warn them, but at least they know that for the next 45 seconds they have the opportunity to adjust their positioning without being tracked?

 

I am just trying to be constructive.

 

The only way is removal.

 

This is a wallhack, all it will take is some guy to mod it and make it into a [edited]arrow pointing right at you then everyone will have it and it makes the game shitty and boring for everyone, no one moves, DD become like the dodo and everyone just uses a BB instead because there is no point to using any other class apart from CV.

 

I am not going to use this shitty skill on any ship because it is shitty, even in ranked i aint using it. I will suffer for this action on the majority of my ships espc my DDs and will get hunted down so easily because RU players are bad and need a wallhack.

 

[Dirty_Filthy_Scrublord]

How about this for a solution?

RDF works by sending out a "radio signal" to find the nearest ship, but what if it only works on ships that are also using RDF ?

Let me explain, for RDF to work with any real sense it needs to "send and receive" a radio signal to show a general direction to the nearest ship.....if the nearest ship is using RDF then it will be sending out a signal that can be detected...but if that ship is NOT using RDF and NOT sending out a signal then it cannot be "detected" by RDF.

This gives a captain a simple choice, take the RDF skill and have an advantage in that you have a good idea where the closest ship is and the disadvantage that someone else using RDF will also know where you are.....by not taking the RDF skill you remove the possibility of being located because you are not "pinging" for the closest enemy and are "invisible" to RDF.

No drastic changes for WG to rush through, and the players get the choice of whether or not RDF helps/hadicaps them.

Now if only WG actually reads this and says to themselves "f**k me guys this is bloody brilliant, why did we not think of this??".

We can but hope....

[mikelight1805]

I like the cut of your Jib

 

[Deckeru_Maiku]

RDF could be real fun if it wasn't to work 100% correct all of the time. Imagine...

 

33% chance of picking up the general direction of the closest ship

33% chance of picking up the general direction of ANY enemy ship on the map

33% direction of picking up the general direction to a flock of seagulls (empty map square) instead of an enemy ship

1% chance of not picking up anything at all.

 

Check % chances every 30 seconds...

[mikelight1805]

decoy seagulls? like Russian AT dogs?

 

[deadly_if_swallowed]

How about this for a solution?

RDF works by sending out a "radio signal" to find the nearest ship, but what if it only works on ships that are also using RDF ?

Let me explain, for RDF to work with any real sense it needs to "send and receive" a radio signal to show a general direction to the nearest ship.....if the nearest ship is using RDF then it will be sending out a signal that can be detected...but if that ship is NOT using RDF and NOT sending out a signal then it cannot be "detected" by RDF.

This gives a captain a simple choice, take the RDF skill and have an advantage in that you have a good idea where the closest ship is and the disadvantage that someone else using RDF will also know where you are.....by not taking the RDF skill you remove the possibility of being located because you are not "pinging" for the closest enemy and are "invisible" to RDF.

No drastic changes for WG to rush through, and the players get the choice of whether or not RDF helps/hadicaps them.

Now if only WG actually reads this and says to themselves "f**k me guys this is bloody brilliant, why did we not think of this??".

We can but hope....

 

Uh... why does it have to send? RDF just picks up radio signals (like situational awareness imho) and evaluates the direction the signal comes from. The concept you describe seems more like hydro-acoustic search where both ships hit each other with their pings. However, if both ships have hydro with the same range they spot each other anyway.

[blademansw]

I can't actually fathom WG's/Lesta's decision making process in implementing this skill. Its like they collectively suffered a rush of crap to the brain in a dev meeting. Either that or they were busy licking windows when someone suggested it.

 

Un. Fracking. Believable.

[mikelight1805]

 

Uh... why does it have to send? RDF just picks up radio signals (like situational awareness imho) and evaluates the direction the signal comes from. The concept you describe seems more like hydro-acoustic search where both ships hit each other with their pings. However, if both ships have hydro with the same range they spot each other anyway.

 

I agree that RDF doesn't work like that, but in game we have radar and hydro which works even if there is a mountainous island in the way. At least with this idea it could still be viable?

[blademansw]

 

I agree that RDF doesn't work like that, but in game we have radar and hydro which works even if there is a mountainous island in the way. At least with this idea it could still be viable?

 

Don't get me started on radar working through islands...

[Capra76]

I can't actually fathom WG's/Lesta's decision making process in implementing this skill. Its like they collectively suffered a rush of crap to the brain in a dev meeting. Either that or they were busy licking windows when someone suggested it.

 

My guess is they want to get more cruisers into the game by making them better able to counter DD, but all this skill will do is nerf DD resulting in even more BB in the game.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Thing is, it's rich from WG as they suggest the skill shake up is to provide more variety with captain skills.

 

This is largely achieved with 0.6.0 HOWEVER this RDF skill undoes everything they've planned and then some. It's essentially a must pick for any gunboat/DD hunter/torp boat as if you do not pick it you are going to be at a massive disadvantage even before any hydro, radar or spotter plane is popped. 

 

And please don't add a Radio Jamming type skill either as that would be another must pick, potentially wasting anywhere up to half a captain's skills down the drain simply to keep up.

 

For a team that's done fairly well on game balance how can the developers not see this? Clearly the ST community are either all yes men or aren't listened to either 

[Chiledip]

Weird thing is, someone was stupid enough to come up with this skill, and his colleagues didn't laugh him out of the room. Retraining or redundancy wasn't even considered, in fact his colleagues thought it was a great idea. Even if this does get dropped (which looks unlikely) it demonstrates clearly just how inept a design and management team WG has. The future is bleak as this is just the latest in a long line of utterly incredulous decision making, WG aren't going to suddenly change so I don't have many aspirations for WOWs in the long term.

This wall hack will be the final nail in the coffin which is already full of nails from previous mistakes. No doubt they will see that it is a broken skill but they will fix it by giving it to everyone for free. And to fix that mess they will introduce a new stupid skill which will screw things up further.

WG do not address the flaws in the game at all, they embrace them. Too many BBs, lets nerf cruisers and DDs, that will help. Meta is campy and static, lets bring in a skill which prevents capping. Japanese DDs underperforming, lets nerf the guns and torps, that will help.

Sometimes WG, the square root of 4 is actually 2, it isn't always -2. Often the obvious solution is correct, but with WG they always go for the counter intuitive one. Counter intuitive is exactly that, contrary to rational thought and intuition.

 

There is no caveat that i can place on this skill to make it acceptable. Turds should be buried and forgotten, not polished and displayed on a mantlepiece.

[Procrastes]

Actually, I believe that "clairvoyance skills" like RPF are not at all uncommon in tactical online games. The sad part about it is that their effect is to diminish the impact of true player skill on a game, lessening the element of intellectual challenge in trying to out-think and out-guess the opposition, and taking the whole thing more in the direction of click-and-play.

 

In short, it means replacing true player skill with a game mechanic.

I think we must assume that this is a conscious decision by WG. That is their prerogative. Personally, I think it's the wrong decision, but there you are.

 

[Chiledip]

Actually, I believe that "clairvoyance skills" like RPF are not at all uncommon in tactical online games. The sad part about it is that their effect is to diminish the impact of true player skill on a game, lessening the element of intellectual challenge in trying to out-think and out-guess the opposition, and taking the whole thing more in the direction of click-and-play.

 

In short, it means replacing true player skill with a game mechanic.

I think we must assume that this is a conscious decision by WG. That is their prerogative. Personally, I think it's the wrong decision, but there you are.

 

 

Could you imagine an ESP skill like this in counter strike? It would turn the game into a farce, which is what RPF will do for WOWs.

 

If a game has an element of map awareness,gamesense etc, stuff like this cannot, under any circumstances, be a part of it. It is WG's prerogative, you are right. But it's my prerogative to go and play something else. I would also remember the money that i spent on this game that was "wasted" and remind myself and anyone else I know not to trust WG with any investment in the future.