does WG want to make the game more campy?

[SovietFury43]

 

i will disagree with that. Whenever i lose most of my hp in a salvo, then it was my fault (in addition to BB being loved by rng). Lucky/[edited]shots when i am properly angled "only" hit 1 citadel.

 

As stated few pages ago, i am all in remedy such shots, but lets not mix facts with player mistakes, that never helps

 

One lucky citadel hit from a high tier BB IS most of your hp.

[lezantas26]

It's rare but it happens that you can lose more than half your health even when angled. I'll give you that when most cruisers lose significant portions of health they were in a precarious position but that's just exacerbated with the amount of BBs rolling around. You don't have to show much broadside to a bratwurst or Yama before you start taking major damage and when there are more than 2 shooting at you it will be hard pressed to avoid taking serious damage (even on 20km+)

 

You have to turn at some point in cruisers, and if you get spotted at an inopportune time you'll suddenly have to worry about 2-3 angles because BBs know that CAs=easy damage. This is made worse in that most high-tier maps have little cover to use to break spotting and the few there are can easily be shot over with a spotting plane. 

 

I'm actually of the opinion that BBs are mostly fine as is, the only problem is the amount of them and the maps/gamemodes themselves. The problem arises from the fact that BBs are too tanky targets to  get targeted by other BBs unless there is a major mistake done(like broadsiding or overextending). This makes for some rather unfun matches when there are 5 BBs and 3 CAs (most of which try to stay in stealth so mostly only 1 CA spotted at a time). Running the gauntlet while being focused by several up-tiered BBs isn't fun and is part of the reason that I've returned to T6-7 games lately.

 

*edit: some clarifications and made a run-on sentence a little less annoying to read

 

personally i tend to shoot at BB, cause broadside they still get shot for 10k+ and they are harder to maneuver, so its "free" damage.

Cruisers are easy targets only if they are inexperienced, thus not changing course/speed, and they get rekted in one salvo.

Since many ca are like that then i say that i tend to shoot ca/bb equally while i drive bb, while i shoot mostly bb in ca

[SovietFury43]

 

personally i tend to shoot at BB, cause broadside they still get shot for 10k+ and they are harder to maneuver, so its "free" damage.

Cruisers are easy targets only if they are inexperienced, thus not changing course/speed, and they get rekted in one salvo.

Since many ca are like that then i say that i tend to shoot ca/bb equally while i drive bb, while i shoot mostly bb in ca

 

That doesn't seem to be the popular opinion. Usually the moment you are spotted in a Cruiser (light or heavy) you can expect at least 2 BB salvos coming at you. Broadside or not they will fling a salvo at you simply praying to RNGsus for a citadel hit. 

 

Granted most of the time you can dodge those salvos, but every now and then RNGsus shows you the middle finger. Problem is those luck shots are the most infuriating because they give you the feeling that you are being punished but didn't make a mistake. That is why i want the angled citadel hits to be fixed. We already have random detonations, we don't need random citadel hits to screw up your games as well.

[CleverViking]

Cruisers are easy targets only if they are inexperienced, thus not changing course/speed, and they get rekted in one salvo.

 

Lets just overlook the snide remark and let me say that when avoiding one BB salvo you will often expose part of your side to another BB which will have an easy shot either because of no cover or magic airplane that gives perfect line of sight. CAs have relatively large turning circles and medium rudder shift at best, with the dispersion of many BBs it can quickly become impossible to avoid all the shells when there are more than one going for you.

 

I'm not saying I never make mistakes, neither am I saying that I always get oneshot by BBs (maybe half my deaths in high-tier are by BBs) I'm not even saying that BBs are blatanly OP easymode.

 

I'm just saying that BBs are strong right now and that there is a decent argument that they are too strong and have too much impact on higher tiers.

[lezantas26]

 

Lets just overlook the snide remark and let me say that when avoiding one BB salvo you will often expose part of your side to another BB which will have an easy shot either because of no cover or magic airplane that gives perfect line of sight. CAs have relatively large turning circles and medium rudder shift at best, with the dispersion of many BBs it can quickly become impossible to avoid all the shells when there are more than one going for you.

 

I'm not saying I never make mistakes, neither am I saying that I always get oneshot by BBs (maybe half my deaths in high-tier are by BBs) I'm not even saying that BBs are blatanly OP easymode.

 

I'm just saying that BBs are strong right now and that there is a decent argument that they are too strong and have too much impact on higher tiers.

 

no snide remark whatsoever, nor i mean anything about you, but i wont waste more than couple salvos to a ca that maneuvers all the time when i can get free damage to a straight-sailing ca/bb

I perform  way better with ca than bb, and i believe that is because of maneuverability and camo. I firmly believe that if one wants to play successfully ca then he needs to use his camo and speed to pick and prepare the "right" engagement. If one get targeted by 3 bb then he chose the wrong place/time to engage

 

I agree with soviet fury, problem are the completely lolpens. The only way i have found to counter it when i need to brawl against bb in ca, is instead of trying to keep a good angle against him, i give him a flat angle to bait him and turn right before he shoots. It has an ok-ish success, certainly better than angling

 

Imo they should remove auto pens, getting hit for lots of damage bow on to a yamato is acceptable, even bb hurt bow on, but getting citadeled is pure bs, it makes armor angle useless

[Myrmix]

I'm not sure what CA/CL's want. Do you want to be as tanky as BBs and put out the highest dmg/min in the game?

Yes, cruisers are a more difficult class to play (maybe even more than DDs, because they can utilize stealth).

But they can be very rewarding, especially in high tier, if the captain knows what he is doing.

On the other hand, somehow the level of skill seems to drop on higher tiers, because somehow people think the goal of the game is to get to t10 as fast as possible.

 

While every nation plays slightly different, let's pull up some basic facts:

Battleships are tanks. They can angle, they can endure much, they can heal and have strong guns to be a threath to the enemy.

Cruisers are damage dealers. Glasscannons, to be specific. They can dish out amazing damage over time, but they die compared to BBs quite fast. You can do a lot more damage, while you are alive.

Destroyers are sneaky rouges/thieves/whateveryoucallthemtoday. Stealthy, hard hitting, but made of aluminium-foil.

 

Of course that is just a basic idea and you have to put in some more complex ideas like tactics, situational awareness (the captain's).

What do cruisers want?

since the armor-update, those bad one-shots happen every 3rd game on my team. Yes, you can take a huge beating, if you somehow end up alone against a BB or are the first target for the enemy.

Guess what, this is the game's way to tell you "you shouldn't be here".

Use your maneuvarability to get to positions where they can't shoot back immediatly. Stick with bigger ships, because you can easily keep up with them.

I hate to explain to people how cruisers work, despite barely playing cruiser myself.

I enjoy the tank-role more than dps and stealth, that's why I enjoy BB.

If you can't play a dps-glasscanon, maybe try out other classes?

 

PS: CV isn't mentioned in there, because WG themselves don't know what they are...

[Wolfenbane]

What do cruisers want.Quite simply more support from BBs.Same as DDs.Rather than the side winding,long range sniping,island hiding,running scared BB players that are in game now.Makes me laugh how some BB captains play their so called tanks more like a DD,hiding and running whenever possible.

[Myrmix]

What do cruisers want.Quite simply more support from BBs.Same as DDs.Rather than the side winding,long range sniping,island hiding,running scared BB players that are in game now.Makes me laugh how some BB captains play their so called tanks more like a DD,hiding and running whenever possible.

 

Yes, there are bad BB captains and their have more impact on the game than a bad cruiser captain.

On the other hand, you already got it wrong in the first sentence. The big slow ship should keep up with the fast, maneuverable.

Did you ever thought about escorting a BB in a cruiser? I only have those rare gems in divisions of my clan...cruisers who actually stay close to BBs, instead of steaming off fullspeed alone and then flaming on the forum why they die so fast.

 

So if you see a BB who really wants to help and be at the front...don't stay behind and watch him die, but close up to him and use him at least as distraction. Maybe give him some AA-support when it's a CV-game just by staying close at the start.

 

I once had a random Atago who supported me in my BB. Yes, he took a beating and lost about 3/4 of his health. But he was able to take advantage of my aggressive play and supported me with torpedos, while engaging an Iwoa and a Tirpitz, to whom I was the bigger threath because of my brawling. If he stayed behind or ran away, I would have been sunk and he wouldn't have done damage equal to 1/2 Iowa and 3/4 Tirpitz.

[Doomsong]

 

Please, stop lying. I have never seen a cruiser to get citadeled at 18km unless he is an idiot going straight at a constant speed. And even then to hit a citadel is more of a rng than aim. He can tap A or D and or even S and the whole salvo will miss. Maybe you should try to play a hight tier BB instead of the most accurate one in the game at tier 5 and then you would know that it can not hit a barn at that range. For someone who so much likes to throw others stats around, you know absolutely nothing about high tier BB play.

And funny how you contradict yourself. You tell us that BBs are campers, yet in another sentence you tell us that BBs are fighting DDs. And you know what? They do it, because their supposed counter, a cruiser, will not shoot a DD at 6 km, but will rather spam HE to a BB at 16km... 

 

I do actualy its pretty common in T7+ to make it more annoying usualy judging from volley dispersion its usualy stray shots that do it. 

 

Main reason citadels exist is to prevent good crusier players from 1vs1 low skill BB players. 

[BCHood]

What do cruisers want.Quite simply more support from BBs.Same as DDs.Rather than the side winding,long range sniping,island hiding,running scared BB players that are in game now.Makes me laugh how some BB captains play their so called tanks more like a DD,hiding and running whenever possible.

 

It really works both ways. I like pushing in my BBs, so when I ask for a support...rarely if ever a cruiser joins. There's very little support for pushing BBs in random. Sadly, most of the times I don't get cruiser support when I'm on m DDs either.

 

/ranton 

 

Everyone wants to be solo warrior in this game. BBs want ways to counter torps, super AA, strong armor accurate main battery, cruisers want high defense that they can tank, super fire, still retain high accuracy, DDs want to be unhittable ans undetectable all the time so they can stealth kill everyone b themselves.

 

It's a game people, everyone have roles to play, and people should learn to finally teamplay.

 

/rantover

[cro_pwr]

 

On the other hand, you already got it wrong in the first sentence. The big slow ship should keep up with the fast, maneuverable.

Did you ever thought about escorting a BB in a cruiser?

 

I've said it allready in my older post.

Why would I, in any F*** way or sense "support" the BB that is sniping from 25km away in my cruiser?

Why would I deny myself any possible chance of getting XP/Creds in that game by sitting next to a hiding BB that doesn't want to get his paint scratched while I am 5 km away from my shooting range?

And why the heck is that "big slow ship" still a thing, when you have BBs (most of higher tier BBS actually) that can keep up with cruisers perfectly fine... BUT, they don't want to. They want to hide behind the islands, and snipe from the spawn...

 

Good BB will be on the front lines, just behind hes DDs, and next to his cruisers (if not even 3 km in front of them). Good DD will be in front of his fleet scouting for DDs/Torps, Good cruiser will sit behind that DD to support him with her guns / radar / AA cover, and NEXT to that GOOD  BB, to fend off any DD/CV attack.

 

Bad BB will snipe from spawn, denying next 2 classes to do their job.

[cro_pwr]

 

 

/ranton 

 

Everyone wants to be solo warrior in this game. BBs want ways to counter torps, super AA, strong armor accurate main battery, cruisers want high defense that they can tank, super fire, still retain high accuracy, DDs want to be unhittable ans undetectable all the time so they can stealth kill everyone b themselves.

 

It's a game people, everyone have roles to play, and people should learn to finally teamplay.

 

/rantover

 

There was a better teamplay before, because BBs knew that they are dead if there is no cruisers next to them, and enemy CV/DD decides that they want them dead.

Cruisers didn't mind to be close to BBs, to get extra creds for plane kills / DD kills.

Now with all the tools BBs have, they simply forget that they need cruisers for anything but to shoot at them and watch them as xp pinatas...

When was the last time you heard BB asking for AA cover / DD screen in front of him / CA protecting him etc?

Saddest part is, you can still find SOME KIND of teamplay on lower tiers, aka tier 5-6 where new people still try to win and play as a team to achieve that. High tiers on the other hand are so low that it hurts. Its a e-peen contest, but in this contest noone even wants to show their e-peen because they are scared they might loose it.

[SovietFury43]

What do Cruisers want? 

 

1. For BBs to start doing their damn job already and tanking some damage instead of cowering behind islands and at max range while we get massacred.

 

2. To not be punished when we do not make any mistakes (angled citadel hits).

 

3. For BBs to not be able to spot and counter DDs and provide their own AA screen any more so our ships are actually relevant again.

 

4. No more 5-6 BBs per team every match.

 

Or to make it more simple we want a return to what the game was during the beta, back before this whole BB clusterf*ck started and all classes had strengths and weaknesses, back when the game was actually GOOD.

 

Now you tell me is that really so unreasonable?

 

Edit: 

Just now i had a match with the Spee. A Tirpitz yolos C cap and we move to kill him (several ships including me, a DD and a BB), the Tirpitz of course aims at me because i am a Cruiser despite the DD being closer and about to torp him. I of course angle, but to no avail, two shells of the BBabies salvo hit my bow and BAM! The infernal GOD DAMN citadel sound plays and i lose 30k hp leaving me with 9k and of course since it is a FU*KING citadel hit i can't repair even half of it leaving me on less then half hp for the rest of the match! Basically my match was ruined right there, i ended up with 28k damage done and nothing else. 

 

I almost punched a hole in my monitor. Fun and engaging gameplay indeed!
I had enough of this god damn crap! 

[Myrmix]

 

I've said it allready in my older post.

 

I'm talking about supporting not the bad captains, but the good ones. Tell them you are going to help the battleship that is going to 10-15km ranges.

Do I have to tell you cruiser-babys everything?

[cro_pwr]

 

I'm talking about supporting not the bad captains, but the good ones. Tell them you are going to help the battleship that is going to 10-15km ranges.

Do I have to tell you cruiser-babys everything?

 

now be free to check my stats, then try to call me that...

I'm playing all classes, but I'm bored and annoyed to F***ing hell by hiding BBs that cause me to loose game over and over and over again, and thats not on t3 where people are still learning, its on effing t10.

[SovietFury43]

 

now be free to check my stats, then try to call me that...

I'm playing all classes, but I'm bored and annoyed to F***ing hell by hiding BBs that cause me to loose game over and over and over again, and thats not on t3 where people are still learning, its on effing t10.

 

Don't bother, he is so obviously biased it is visible from the moon.

[Myrmix]

 

now be free to check my stats, then try to call me that...

I'm playing all classes, but I'm bored and annoyed to F***ing hell by hiding BBs that cause me to loose game over and over and over again, and thats not on t3 where people are still learning, its on effing t10.

 

I've got the same problem with cruisers, who don't want to shoot on DDs and only give firesupport when the target is <10%

Just saying it's not only the BBs fault. There are stupid people in every class.

[BCHood]

 

I've got the same problem with cruisers, who don't want to shoot on DDs and only give firesupport when the target is <10%

Just saying it's not only the BBs fault. There are stupid people in every class.

 

Bad people are in every class and every tier, it's the BBs that survive the longest so those bad players in BBs are more obvious, getting all the salt. While I fully agree the BBs numbers should be cappes at 3 or 4, I don't subscribe to the whole idea  every BB is an idiot by ship choice, I've seen as much bad BB players as in an other class, except maybe CV, because if they're reall good they carry, if they're average or bad, you don't see them and their impact much.

[Vrumugun]

Just now i had a match with the Spee. A Tirpitz yolos C cap and we move to kill him (several ships including me, a DD and a BB), the Tirpitz of course aims at me because i am a Cruiser despite the DD being closer and about to torp him. I of course angle, but to no avail, two shells of the BBabies salvo hit my bow and BAM! The infernal GOD DAMN citadel sound plays and i lose 30k hp leaving me with 9k and of course since it is a FU*KING citadel hit i can't repair even half of it leaving me on less then half hp for the rest of the match! Basically my match was ruined right there, i ended up with 28k damage done and nothing else.

 

 

 

I almost punched a hole in my monitor. Fun and engaging gameplay indeed!

I had enough of this god damn crap!

 

I have quite schizophrenic feeling here.

 

What is diffence in BB between "yolo" and "close range team support"?

.... For me, it is rest of my team. I push in tirpitz often. And if rest of my team turn and run at first sign of opposition, i can either stay and go down fighting or try to turn and get free beating (often including dieing anyway).

 

As for choosing targets, if i got dd and GS under 10km when i am going "yolo" ("sacrificed be team" sound as viable description too), its pure cointoss for me: both got torps, both are not threat once flushed them, both are paper target. DD is smaller, but fewer hits will do kill him..so again toss up.

 

I dont think am taking sides here, but original Stone/paper/scissor dont work for long time now. I dont know if it even should be working.

 

[Myrmix]

 

I have quite schizophrenic feeling here.

 

What is diffence in BB between "yolo" and "close range team support"?

.... For me, it is rest of my team. I push in tirpitz often. And if rest of my team turn and run at first sign of opposition, i can either stay and go down fighting or try to turn and get free beating (often including dieing anyway).

 

As for choosing targets, if i got dd and GS under 10km when i am going "yolo" ("sacrificed be team" sound as viable description too), its pure cointoss for me, both got torps, both are not threat once flushed them, both are paper target. DD is smaller, but fewer hits will do kill him..so again tss up.

 

I dont think am taking sides here, but original Stone/paper/scissor dont work for long time now. I dont know if it even should be working.

 

 

It is very difficult, because you don't know on what teammates you can rely on.

I like to play my Tirpitz at the beginning of the game at 15km distance and watch what my team does. If I see a BB or 2 DDs pushing a cap, i team up with him and help. If I see a cap with 3-4 enemies and everyone is running from it, I can't push in.

It's difficult to learn, but try to think for yourself and don't only run after your teammates.

Especially on ocean, you often see them getting pushed to the mapborder, in bad cases even 7-8 ships running from 3 into 1 square on the map.

[Doomsong]

 

How about you start playing with the [edited]Warspite and play with some tech tree Battleships. The warspite is considered one of the most accurate battleships in the game. And tell me why should a cruiser who KEEPS  sailing broadside to me at 6 km survive after my first salvo? RNG [edited]battleships more often than everyone and more harder than everyone. And that crapneeds to be gone.

 

and tell me why should BB who is soo poor at aiming that i can get him from full hp to 1/3 from 10-12km without taking almost any damage be able to win that duel because of yolo random citadel hit?

[SovietFury43]

Just had my first match in the Fuso.

 

It was so laughably easy . 60k damage in the first 5 minutes, got a double angled citadel hit on a Spee, pretty much one shoted him right there. Then got a citadel on a Leander. 70k damage on the first match with a stock Fuso. Felth almost like i was cheating, just rush a cap, point at the waterline of the nearest cruiser and watch the citadels fly. That is pretty much the extent of BB gameplay it seems, only thing to worry about is ocasionally change your course a little or speed so you dont run into a wall of torps.

 

Edit: If this is what a stock Fuso does, i dont even want to imagine what the Nagato can do.

 

Edit 2: My second ever match in a Fuso:

 

 

 

One of those citadel hits was a blind shot on a Fiji in smoke, i crapyou not. 

Yep, BBs totally balanced.

[cro_pwr]

Oh man, you have a lot to learn then...

Fuso sh*ts on anything at t6, Nagato is a bit weaker tier for tier at t7, but still a monster, Amagi is my fav BB in the game, Yamato pens everything...

[Rabid_Turnip]

Given that this patch now makes HE spam the undisputed king of battles (Fire Prevention being a Tier 4 skill is completely retarded), of course BBs will camp more because they don't want to be anywhere near that crap. It's actually quite a nerf to BBs, since they've lost all of their low-cost survivability skills; of course you can't say that, because all the Anti-BB Whine Brigade will just start their usual round of crying and whining again.

 

Welcome to World Of Invisifiring HE Spam.

[lezantas26]

Just had my first match in the Fuso.

 

It was so laughably easy . 60k damage in the first 5 minutes, got a double angled citadel hit on a Spee, pretty much one shoted him right there. Then got a citadel on a Leander. 70k damage on the first match with a stock Fuso. Felth almost like i was cheating, just rush a cap, point at the waterline of the nearest cruiser and watch the citadels fly. That is pretty much the extent of BB gameplay it seems, only thing to worry about is ocasionally change your course a little or speed so you dont run into a wall of torps.

 

Edit: If this is what a stock Fuso does, i dont even want to imagine what the Nagato can do.

 

Edit 2: My second ever match in a Fuso:

 

 

 

One of those citadel hits was a blind shot on a Fiji in smoke, i crapyou not. 

Yep, BBs totally balanced.

 

me and my luck.. my BB cant shoot straight it seems xD

 

Soviet, i saw your post about the spree and Tirpitz. Last page i mentioned a better tactic than angling, practice it. In my experience works better than angling