does WG want to make the game more campy?

[cro_pwr]

CVs aren't boring for a lot of people.
What is boring, is that nowadays even DDs eat your planes for breakfast, and if by some miracle you get 300k damage, 10 kills, 60 planes shot down and 5 million damage tanked, you will earn a HUGE 1k base xp and 100k creds for a victory.

Thats why you don't see CVs anymore, because people don't like to work their arses off just to loose 100k creds every game.

[Elenortirion]

This is just wrong like ive said:

 

Go play high-tier battles at night, 1-2 BBs each side: camping cruisers everywhere.

Do it! Watch it by yourself if you dont believe me.

 

as I said one odd battle in the middle of the night is not enought to affect habits of population

 

and as for it beign wrong: when I've got ARP Takao, my first thought was that I'll be that good CA player that plays aggresively, help his DDs, BBs and everything you could ever expect of CA

 

and I had that idea beaten out of my head very quickly by chain of matches with citadel hits being scored by battleships form literaly any angle - and I just jumped out with my T6 CA habits into T8 CA

 

do you notice the point now?

 

and if you don't believe me go grab any t4-t5 cruiser and give it a roll and you will notice that players there don't have much issues with pushing when there is 1-2BB per side

 

well i still see a good amount of DD players, and CVs well the biggest issue with CVs is that they are boring to play and are the only class in the game which is in dire need of a tutorial cause they are too diffrent from the other classe, you play a DD CA or BB well WASD for movement, you have guns for point and click with time you will learn how to aim on CVs on the other hand hello and welcome to an lowtech RTS were we do not even tell you the most controll keys to correctly use your planes and and how you position your carrier etc etc etc.

 

welp maybe it's to each his own kind of situation but I never understood people claiming CV gameplay being outright boring, welp maybe except those that have never played them and just assumed that it's low-tech-rts-gameplay and hence it MUST be boring

 

while I agree that CVs may be needing tutorial [heck I've got decent on manual dropping only after watching huge amounts of vids how other people play their CVs]

 

I disagree with them being "boring"

 

actually from all ship types I was finding CV gameplay most interesting from them all because of how much attention you need to pay to practically everywhere and that was nice and stuff at least up to t7

 

where I was struck by a problem.

problem was - as a CV I had to put really alot of effort to have even DECENT performance and it became stressfull and actually tiring and ontop of that even in matches when I've performed actually good I was still earning less than average herpaderpy DD match in same tiers

 

and no one likes when a PC game is requiring them to put so much effort to get so small out of it

[jure_eruj]

The very reason why Cruisers play much more passively now is because OP BBs erase them in one salvo even when angled.

 

There is no way around it, the BB meta is the root of all those problems.

 

This is just BS. I have never been one shoted in Kutuzov and always when i get citadeled was because of my mistake.

 

As for camping goes, yeah, i will put 20km lancers back on my shima and just spam torp whatever I see. With RPF, that is all I'll be able to do, so thank you WG for screwing Dd captains again. 

CV, radar and acoustics obviously isn't making DD life hard as [edited], you decided to pour even more bitterness to it. Thank you and enjoy the campfest you will cause. But hey, BBs will be happy, at least for a day, before they start crying again about something being OP.

[SovietFury43]

 

What cruisers?

t5-6 don't, at t7-8 some of them allready have huge range and ability to stealth fire, at t10 all of them can shoot from 18 km. (didn't check for all the numbers, but I think I'm not mistaken here)

The main problem is that t10 BBs also have a boost to range, and as I said, hitting something from 20km away isn't all that hard in a t10 BB.  So as soon as you get to lets say 16 km away from 1 BB and get detected, you can easily assume you are in a firing range of at least 3 more enemy BBs, and you probably won't even see 2 of them, or their shells going your way.

 

18km in tier 10 is not considered camping and sniping considering that even some DDs in tier 10 can get that kind of range. 

 

Also have a look at this beautiful gem of a match:

 

 

"BBs should be the strongest ships in the game because... well... they should be!" -Dominico

[SovietFury43]

 

This is just BS. I have never been one shoted in Kutuzov and always when i get citadeled was because of my mistake.

 

As for camping goes, yeah, i will put 20km lancers back on my shima and just spam torp whatever I see. With RPF, that is all I'll be able to do, so thank you WG for screwing Dd captains again. 

CV, radar and acoustics obviously isn't making DD life hard as [edited], you decided to pour even more bitterness to it. Thank you and enjoy the campfest you will cause. But hey, BBs will be happy, at least for a day, before they start crying again about something being OP.

 

Hay if you dont believe me, ask anyone who plays Cruisers in high tiers regularly.

 

And if it is my mistake i got citadeled in my Atago at 16km by an NC while angled and moving away from him then it was also BBs players fault that they ate torps while sailing in a strait line with a DD around. Then why do DDs get nerfed again and again while BBs get buffed again and again? 

 

If we Cruisers should brush it off every time RNGsus decides to screw us with an angled citadel hit for 80% hp as simply "meh, my fault", then so should BBabies when they get a wall of torps in their face.

[zuadao]

i think the problem here resides with cruisers.

 

they are very soft and very easy to hit. between the BBs and the enemy team there should allways be a wall of cruisers, spoting enemy DDs and other cruisers. that doesnt happen because ppl are afraid to put them in danger.

 

 

if cruisers can push more easily BBs will follow.

[shadowwolf9705]

what i mean with boring CVs is that they are boring for the majority of players, how to best say it: its just that basically the inteded target group which is the casual gamer are mostly not intrested in a class that has no real action no pew pew etc., its a similar problem that happens with rts games they are not as popular as egoshooters, they are like someone said before stressfull, time consuming, a lot of waiting etc. and that is not what most casual gamers want, they want easy games to have fun (there is a reason why most upcoming RTS cant hold a candle to their predecessors)

 

and what i mean with low tech rts well it has simple controls, its easy to learn (for an RTS and assuming you read the forum) but if i compare to most RTS like games there is not much involved thats is under the direct controll of the player

[cro_pwr]

 

if cruisers can push more easily BBs will follow.

 

Not true. Actually, thats so not true it hurts.

I'm the guy thats usually sitting on the front lines in my Yamato, tanking half of the enemy team by myself.

The second closest allied BB is 10km behind me. Because booohooo, I have 25km range, why should I come closer, so someone can scratch my paint.

 

The amount of people not knowing the basics of the game at high tiers are infuriating. People will ignore caps, be scared to come close to them, and act like its a freaking Bermuda Triangle, not a cap point, won't tank for the team, altho they have best armor, most hp etc. And you got it, most of them are BBs. When you see your t10 BB, 15 mins into the game, still hiding behind the island with full (LITERARY FULL) hp, then you just want to uninstall the game.

[zuadao]

 

Not true. Actually, thats so not true it hurts.

I'm the guy thats usually sitting on the front lines in my Yamato, tanking half of the enemy team by myself.

The second closest allied BB is 10km behind me. Because booohooo, I have 25km range, why should I come closer, so someone can scratch my paint.

 

The amount of people not knowing the basics of the game at high tiers are infuriating. People will ignore caps, be scared to come close to them, and act like its a freaking Bermuda Triangle, not a cap point, won't tank for the team, altho they have best armor, most hp etc. And you got it, most of them are BBs. When you see your t10 BB, 15 mins into the game, still hiding behind the island with full (LITERARY FULL) hp, then you just want to uninstall the game.

 

the yamato is not a cruiser...

 

you dont have hydro, you dont have radar, you can be pushed by a DD and only spot him at 7km. why should another BB follow you?

[cro_pwr]

 

the yamato is not a cruiser...

 

you dont have hydro, you dont have radar, you can be pushed by a DD and only spot him at 7km. why should another BB follow you?

 

Because its BBs job to hide at spawn instead of supporting DDs/CAs that fight for caps, right?

[Vanhal]

 

Because its BBs job to hide at spawn instead of supporting DDs/CAs that fight for caps, right?

 

No, their job is obviously to push blindly on caps so they can eat torps and cause DD circlejerk to cry a little less.

[cro_pwr]

 

No, their job is obviously to push blindly on caps so they can eat torps and cause DD circlejerk to cry a little less.

 

Who said anything about blindly pushing into caps so you can eat torps?

Your job IS to participate in fight, by goddamn TANKING for the team, and making a presence there, so they have to retreat from cap.

Your job IS NOT to cry about having 30km range so why should you come any closer, then blaming everyone for loosing the game, because you contributed HUGELY for the team by hitting 10 shells at the end of the fight, but lo and behold, you are still full hp, and your teammates are noobs for dying while fighting for the caps.

[redraven]

So many of you complain about gettting deleted at 20km+ ranges. You talk like this happens every game to you. Do you know why it happened? Because RNGesus decides that you havent made the right sacrifices for him and now you shall be punihsed. Its called bad luck fellas.  cro_pwr mentioned how RNG can turn around situations and that its all a coin flip.

And thats the problem. I dont really mind missing targets at extreme long distances. If my shells even hit them i'm like "well that was lucky".

I want reasonable hit rations at my optimal range of engagement (which depends on each ship), and i just want to murder everyone who comes closer than 3km to me.

You lot dont even play battleship i guess. Or not in an amount to notice their problems. I just hate when a cruiser keeps sailing broadside to me and gets nothing but 2 overpens 3 non-dmg penetrations (how the [edited]does that happen i dont know) and the rest misses. There are so many bad cruisers (and generaly bad players) because the bullcrap RNG mechanics let them get away wih their stupid plays so they think they are doing it right. Only to experience that when RNG kicks in for the enemy BB and they get obliterated out of the game they whine "omg BBs are OP".
 

You mf-ers have no idea now often does the enemy cruiser act like fcking Moses and part my shells like its the red sea.. meaning half my salvo leaves the map on my left side the rest on the right side.
i swear to the god almighty that i have landed shells in other games.
Or when at a perfect range my full salvo goes fcking Trump on me is like "We will land everywhere right next to the target and will make the BB player pay for it!" 

You Ca players can get away with so many [edited]plays because RNG is heavily in your favor: you have high rof meaning you can set fires easily (fire also needs some changes but thats another topic) pin-point accuracy meaning a BB will always get hit by you and you can dictate the engagement because of the speed. And that does the BB have? Only the hope that the mercy of RNGesus will shine upon him and the shells will even touch you.. let alone deal any significant amount of damage (because lol overpens and 0 dmg-pens). Untill you get buttf.cked by it once every 30 games and than you cry "omg BBs are OP".

The problem is that BBs are way too inconsistent. Someone above has said "BBs go to hunt dds" and some one else replied "because the cruiser is spamming HE at a BB 15+km away rather than shooting at DD that is 6 km away".

But as a solution to this i have just now pulled out an iddea out of my a.. How about you get bigger reward for shooting/killing what you are supposed to and less for doing what you arent supposed to.

[Ubertron_X]

Your job IS to participate in fight, by goddamn TANKING for the team, and making a presence there, so they have to retreat from cap.

Your job IS NOT to cry about having 30km range so why should you come any closer, then blaming everyone for loosing the game, because you contributed HUGELY for the team by hitting 10 shells at the end of the fight, but lo and behold, you are still full hp, and your teammates are noobs for dying while fighting for the caps.

 

If BBs job is to tank for the team, then it is my CV's job to protect me with planes all the time (and not doing some useless bomb runs elsewhere and ******* off to his inflated damage figures), my DDs job to to actively search and destroy enemy DDs, to do all the scouting and to cover me and/or others with smoke when appropriate and my CA's job to protect me from planes as well as any enemy DD's and CA's who wants to torp or torch me. Because roles is what teams are for.

 

Also, who is the bigger fool? The fool sniping from behind doing little or the fool on the front lines dying bravely but alone?

 

P.S.: The above is worded as an opposite opinion on purpose and not at all reflecting my own opinion, which is more along the lines of cro_pwr. However I always find it helpful to argue from both sides (or at least that's what I guess that an average BB player might be thinking along).

[cro_pwr]

And there lies another problem. Its not your CVs job to protect you at all times, because he can't do that. Fighters die to, they have ammo and need to resuply it, you don't have enough fighters to stop entire strike squad.
Your cruisers should protect you from planes, but how to protect you when you decide to sit 10 km behind them? Should a cruiser say F it all, I don't want any credits / XP, I'll sit 20 km away from closest enemy, and not fire a single shot whole game because I want to protect my sniping BB from CV strikes... Thats nonsense... Push together with cruisers, that can use you as a meat shield, and in the same time provide you with AA cover, and fend off any DD that even thinks of comming close to you....
And don't forget, CAs are a lot more reliable damage dealers then BBs are, and 2 of them focusing on an enemy BB will burn him down quite fast, while any BB will struggle a lot while dealing with bow on BB himself. But they are squishy, and they need someone to tank for them, so they can spew out that damage.

 

DDs have to go in front to cap anyway, but by denying cruisers that meatshield, you have denied a support of your cruisers for your DDs. And there is no question in which DD will win the fight, the one with 2 cruisers supporting him, or the one without them...

 

I know that people don't fulfill their roles, but now, we are talking about some strange scenario where people actually do their job, and play as a team, which is quite rare lately, and in my book, WG ruined quite a lot of teamplay themselves, by negating the need of classes helping each other, aka BBs relying on someones support to survive and deal with threats (most of BBs nowadays are just fine to survive on their own in MOST of situations, not all ofc, but most of them).

[Elenortirion]

 

If BBs job is to tank for the team, then it is my CV's job to protect me with planes all the time (and not doing some useless bomb runs elsewhere and ******* off to his inflated damage figures), my DDs job to to actively search and destroy enemy DDs, to do all the scouting and to cover me and/or others with smoke when appropriate and my CA's job to protect me from planes as well as any enemy DD's and CA's who wants to torp or torch me. Because roles is what teams are for.

 

Also, who is the bigger fool? The fool sniping from behind doing little or the fool on the front lines dying bravely but alone?

 

P.S.: The above is worded as an opposite opinion on purpose and not at all reflecting my own opinion, which is more along the lines of cro_pwr. However I always find it helpful to argue from both sides (or at least that's what I guess that an average BB player might be thinking along).

 

hmmm lemme think

1: biggest HP pool of all ship types

2: the thickest armor plating out of all classes making resulting in alot of his doing no damage at all

3: up to 50-60% of damage reduction fom torpedoes

4. ability to heal it's hp in some degree

 

well now let me think what could be possible role of a ship/character/class/type with such characteristics?

 

hmmm definitelly it is not tanking, totally not, I cannot be tanking because it is totally a list of all things most usefull for actually tanking hits......

 

and it's kinda sad that grand most of players playing the tankiest class tends to also be the most cowardly in so many battles - I mean really I am seeing more brave DDs and CAs (and CL's) on average than I see actually brave BBs......

 

most of them though have overpumped expectations toward you while not even trying to play up to possibility of someone god forbid expectign anything from them.....

[SovietFury43]

So many of you complain about gettting deleted at 20km+ ranges. You talk like this happens every game to you. Do you know why it happened? Because RNGesus decides that you havent made the right sacrifices for him and now you shall be punihsed. Its called bad luck fellas.  cro_pwr mentioned how RNG can turn around situations and that its all a coin flip.

 

And thats the problem. I dont really mind missing targets at extreme long distances. If my shells even hit them i'm like "well that was lucky".

 

I want reasonable hit rations at my optimal range of engagement (which depends on each ship), and i just want to murder everyone who comes closer than 3km to me.

 

You lot dont even play battleship i guess. Or not in an amount to notice their problems. I just hate when a cruiser keeps sailing broadside to me and gets nothing but 2 overpens 3 non-dmg penetrations (how the [edited]does that happen i dont know) and the rest misses. There are so many bad cruisers (and generaly bad players) because the bullcrap RNG mechanics let them get away wih their stupid plays so they think they are doing it right. Only to experience that when RNG kicks in for the enemy BB and they get obliterated out of the game they whine "omg BBs are OP".

 

 

You mf-ers have no idea now often does the enemy cruiser act like fcking Moses and part my shells like its the red sea.. meaning half my salvo leaves the map on my left side the rest on the right side.

i swear to the god almighty that i have landed shells in other games.

Or when at a perfect range my full salvo goes fcking Trump on me is like "We will land everywhere right next to the target and will make the BB player pay for it!" 

 

You Ca players can get away with so many [edited]plays because RNG is heavily in your favor: you have high rof meaning you can set fires easily (fire also needs some changes but thats another topic) pin-point accuracy meaning a BB will always get hit by you and you can dictate the engagement because of the speed. And that does the BB have? Only the hope that the mercy of RNGesus will shine upon him and the shells will even touch you.. let alone deal any significant amount of damage (because lol overpens and 0 dmg-pens). Untill you get buttf.cked by it once every 30 games and than you cry "omg BBs are OP".

 

The problem is that BBs are way too inconsistent. Someone above has said "BBs go to hunt dds" and some one else replied "because the cruiser is spamming HE at a BB 15+km away rather than shooting at DD that is 6 km away".

 

But as a solution to this i have just now pulled out an iddea out of my a.. How about you get bigger reward for shooting/killing what you are supposed to and less for doing what you arent supposed to.

 

Oh poor BBaby! You occasionally don't do 40k per salvo to cruisers! We are all sorry for you now!

 

I do occasionally play BBs as well, and i know that it sucks when the RNGsus screws you and decides that your salvo is going to miss/overpen. The thing is a few missed shots and overpens don't ruin the whole match for you, i had matches where i did almost 100k damage with the Warspite with no citadels at all, just pure AP damage. A Cruiser that gets screwed by RNGsus and gets awarded that angled citadel hit for 40k, his match is pretty much ruined right there, if he survives he is going to have such low hp that even an IJN DD will be able to gun him down.

[AgarwaenME]

 

Extremely bad idea.

Not ot mention, for the thousanth time, BB re not OP, they numbers are largely due to them bein BB and it's BB that is the most popular class outside of the game, so no wonder that is the same ingame. To lessen the number of BB's through the nerfs, you would have to nerf them so much, they would be extremely underpowered. If you want to reduce their numbers, fine, but the only fair way to do it would be by MM. Also don't forget DD, whose are spiking again, especially at higher tiers, despite constant whine of them being UP.

 

EDIT: I forgot: Inb4 this thread turns into thousandth circlejerk whining trip.

 

So very typical, what is used as an excuse to nerf other classes of ships, somehow can't possibly work against BBs.. because "reasons". Also it's a pretty ridiculous claim to say you have to nerf BBs to the extent they become unplayable, especially given how BBs now, while being by far the most popular, are getting MORE buffs.

[redraven]

 

Oh poor BBaby! You occasionally don't do 40k per salvo to cruisers! We are all sorry for you now!

 

I do occasionally play BBs as well, and i know that it sucks when the RNGsus screws you and decides that your salvo is going to miss/overpen. The thing is a few missed shots and overpens don't ruin the whole match for you, i had matches where i did almost 100k damage with the Warspite with no citadels at all, just pure AP damage. A Cruiser that gets screwed by RNGsus and gets awarded that angled citadel hit for 40k, his match is pretty much ruined right there, if he survives he is going to have such low hp that even an IJN DD will be able to gun him down.

 

How about you start playing with the [edited]Warspite and play with some tech tree Battleships. The warspite is considered one of the most accurate battleships in the game. And tell me why should a cruiser who KEEPS  sailing broadside to me at 6 km survive after my first salvo? RNG [edited]battleships more often than everyone and more harder than everyone. And that crapneeds to be gone.

[lezantas26]

 

Oh poor BBaby! You occasionally don't do 40k per salvo to cruisers! We are all sorry for you now!

 

I do occasionally play BBs as well, and i know that it sucks when the RNGsus screws you and decides that your salvo is going to miss/overpen. The thing is a few missed shots and overpens don't ruin the whole match for you, i had matches where i did almost 100k damage with the Warspite with no citadels at all, just pure AP damage. A Cruiser that gets screwed by RNGsus and gets awarded that angled citadel hit for 40k, his match is pretty much ruined right there, if he survives he is going to have such low hp that even an IJN DD will be able to gun him down.

 

yesterday i got warspite from a box, and went secondary build. In one of the few games i played, i got 3 citadels and a detonation on a 15km away (russian if i remember right) cruiser that was sailing broadside.

The poor guy said "good shot", i replied nothing as i didnt know what to say 

So i kinda agree with redraven that warspite is not your regular BB in terms of accuracy

[CleverViking]

 

How about you start playing with the [edited]Warspite and play with some tech tree Battleships. The warspite is considered one of the most accurate battleships in the game. And tell me why should a cruiser who KEEPS  sailing broadside to me at 6 km survive after my first salvo? RNG [edited]battleships more often than everyone and more harder than everyone. And that crapneeds to be gone.

 

The difference have been explained earlier in this very thread, I'll highlight the important parts so you don't miss it.

 

When RNG screws BBs, you just have to wait for the next shot. It's rarely a game over, you might get set on fire but you can repair ALL OF THIS. As long as you stay with your team a single missed salvo won't screw up your game 9/10 times.

 

When RNG screws a cruiser you lose 80% of your health and this can happen even if you did nothing wrong. You essentially get taken out of the match with that kind of damage.

[SovietFury43]

 

The difference have been explained earlier in this very thread, I'll highlight the important parts so you don't miss it.

 

When RNG screws BBs, you just have to wait for the next shot. It's rarely a game over, you might get set on fire but you can repair ALL OF THIS. As long as you stay with your team a single missed salvo won't screw up your game 9/10 times.

 

When RNG screws a cruiser you lose 80% of your health and this can happen even if you did nothing wrong. You essentially get taken out of the match with that kind of damage.

 

Bah! There is no point explaining it any more, seems BBabies only hear what they want to hear and see only what they want to see. They wont be happy until the game is reduced to an all BB campfest (which it basically is with the next patch). 

 

I am done after this round of BB buffs kicks in. Let the BBabies play their precious World of Battleships, sooner or later they will realize how boring it is and move on to ruin some other game. Then Wargaming might finally open their eyes once the game goes the way World of Warplanes did.

 

I wanted to love this game so much, i really did. It had so much potential, sadly there is only so much crap i can take. 

[steviln]

 

I am done after this round of BB buffs kicks in. Let the BBabies play their precious World of Battleships, sooner or later they will realize how boring it is and move on to ruin some other game. Then Wargaming might finally open their eyes once the game goes the way World of Warplanes did.

 World of Warplanes went downhill because another company already had a game that was very similar but without a doubt greatly superior. Unlike WOWs where the competitor is unplayable crap. And it also looks to me that this game have an easier time retaning player numbers after the matches stopped being destroyed by to many CVs as it was earlier. 

[lezantas26]

 

The difference have been explained earlier in this very thread, I'll highlight the important parts so you don't miss it.

 

When RNG screws BBs, you just have to wait for the next shot. It's rarely a game over, you might get set on fire but you can repair ALL OF THIS. As long as you stay with your team a single missed salvo won't screw up your game 9/10 times.

 

When RNG screws a cruiser you lose 80% of your health and this can happen even if you did nothing wrong. You essentially get taken out of the match with that kind of damage.

 

i will disagree with that. Whenever i lose most of my hp in a salvo, then it was my fault (in addition to BB being loved by rng). Lucky/[edited]shots when i am properly angled "only" hit 1 citadel.

 

As stated few pages ago, i am all in remedy such shots, but lets not mix facts with player mistakes, that never helps

[CleverViking]

Lucky/[edited]shots when i am properly angled "only" hit 1 citadel.

It's rare but it happens that you can lose more than half your health even when angled. I'll give you that when most cruisers lose significant portions of health they were in a precarious position but that's just exacerbated with the amount of BBs rolling around. You don't have to show much broadside to a bratwurst or Yama before you start taking major damage and when there are more than 2 shooting at you it will be hard pressed to avoid taking serious damage (even on 20km+)

 

You have to turn at some point in cruisers, and if you get spotted at an inopportune time you'll suddenly have to worry about 2-3 angles because BBs know that CAs=easy damage. This is made worse in that most high-tier maps have little cover to use to break spotting and the few there are can easily be shot over with a spotting plane. 

 

I'm actually of the opinion that BBs are mostly fine as is, the only problem is the amount of them and the maps/gamemodes themselves. The problem arises from the fact that BBs are too tanky targets to  get targeted by other BBs unless there is a major mistake done(like broadsiding or overextending). This makes for some rather unfun matches when there are 5 BBs and 3 CAs (most of which try to stay in stealth so mostly only 1 CA spotted at a time). Running the gauntlet while being focused by several up-tiered BBs isn't fun and is part of the reason that I've returned to T6-7 games lately.

 

*edit: some clarifications and made a run-on sentence a little less annoying to read