Another CV rant....

[dasCKD]

Lol. The name calling is always started by the pro CV guys, they never try to disprove my arguments because they cant, instead they just go full ad hominem.

 

Ah, speak of the devil. The head CV hater himself, we missed you!

 

In any case, insults aren't Ad Hominem and most of the time we don't disagree with your insults, we disagree with the conclusions you draw from them.

CVs are very very strong, in fact OP, since no other class can carry that easily.

 

It is true that no class can carry as easily as CVs, but no class equally can doom their team as a bad CV. A class with a very high skill ceiling but a steep learning curve can hardly be called overpowered, especially since they can be rendered mostly useless by rudimentary teamwork. CVs are indeed a decisive class, but that alone does not make them overpowered.

[Ragweek]

 

Actually I am serious - a lot of cruiser players just suck bal.ls and deserve to suffer for it. The same sh.its who demand buffs for the ATL 

Was you not doing exactly the same with Cvs . You sir are a hypocritical 

[aboomination]

A lot of players just aren't very       and yes, sometimes you get deleted buy a cv but it happens rarely 

 

This thread is more about the skill ceiling of CV and how decisive this class can be if one CV is a potato.

 

 Was you not doing exactly the same with Cvs . You sir are a hypocritical 

 

I demanded buffs for CV?

[avenger121]

Ah, speak of the devil. The head CV hater himself, we missed you!

 

In any case, insults aren't Ad Hominem and most of the time we don't disagree with your insults, we disagree with the conclusions you draw from them.

 

Ok, then please tell me what "head CV hater" is?

 

Is it not your poor try to discredit the poster instead of the post. Just like T_H_0_R who also tells me everytime that I would like to see CVs deleted, which surprises me everytime, he truly knows me better than I do myself.

 

 

 

It is true that no class can carry as easily as CVs, but no class equally can doom their team as a bad CV. A class with a very high skill ceiling but a steep learning curve can hardly be called overpowered, especially since they can be rendered mostly useless by rudimentary teamwork. CVs are indeed a decisive class, but that alone does not make them overpowered.

 

The avg CV player carries harder than the avg BB/DD/cruisers will do, thus CVs are OP.

 

Just because there are some rare constellations which makes it harder to strike, doesnt mean that CVs suddenly become weak. Otherwise I would like to see all my DDs buffed, because if the enemy pushes my team with 3 radar cruisers in front my options to do something are severly limited.

[Ragweek]

 

 

 

 CV are very powerful and require your whole team to counter them effectively.

Which ofc very rarely happens, more so in ranked tho - thus both matches vs him were quite close and enjoyable defeats with him being the decisive factor.

The high skill ceiling of CV and the fact that teamwork can counter them to an extent are indeed valid problems when it comes to balancing this class, it's just not the arty clone many expect.

Correctly put but I missed that part about you wanting Cvs buffing

[Gudgeon]

That is Exactly what i was getting at. in world of bbs I would say the ca's have the hard time.

 

Your angle cannot be perfect against all 8 of there bbs.

 

Cvs are so rare at high tiers its not even worth mentioning.

 

This post was only started because the op was having trouble with stat padding in low tier games.

 

 

You are trying to turn the post into something it is not. I don't want CV's nerfed, could not care less, it is the gulf in skill between two players on opposing teams that can occur and wreck a teams game, more than any other class. It happens more often than you would care to admit and you benefit from it too. Going on the premise that CV's have such a hard time, the good CV player stats I see are very good btw with win rate, damage and KD being very high. Your Saipan stats of 68% win rate, 107K damage and KD of 11 being an example. 2.1 kills a game average is very good too.

 

10/10 for the obnoxious posts.....and you wonder why a large proportion of the player base hate CV's.

[Ragweek]

 

You are trying to turn the post into something it is not. I don't want CV's nerfed, could not care less, it is the gulf in skill between two players on opposing teams that can occur and wreck a teams game, more than any other class. It happens more often than you would care to admit and you benefit from it too. Going on the premise that CV's have such a hard time, the good CV player stats I see are very good btw with win rate, damage and KD being very high. Your Saipan stats of 68% win rate, 107K damage and KD of 11 being an example. 2.1 kills a game average is very good too.

 

10/10 for the obnoxious posts.....and you wonder why a large proportion of the player base hate CV's.

And it's treads like this that get classes nerfs into the ground. The saipan is going to take a massive hit with the next pach and if you look at the win rates for premium ships it's no where near the top

[aboomination]

Correctly put but I missed that part about you wanting Cvs buffing

 

You don't make any sense...

[Ragweek]

Oh and random battle is called random for a reason. Other games tried to put skill levels on matchmaking and it destroyed thier games.

[aboomination]

Oh and random battle is called random for a reason. Other games tried to put skill levels on matchmaking and it destroyed thier games.

 

Last thread regarding skill based MM died in 2014 on the WoT forums. At least that's what I thought.

[Ragweek]

 

Actually I am serious - a lot of cruiser players just suck bal.ls and deserve to suffer for it. The same sh.its who demand buffs for the ATL 

Please let me give you explanation of hypocrisy.  You say cv is too powerful. ..........

 

Then slate people for saying the same about bbs to their CA's. .

[Ragweek]

 

 

Some people are hinting at it though. 

[Gudgeon]

And it's treads like this that get classes nerfs into the ground. The saipan is going to take a massive hit with the next pach and if you look at the win rates for premium ships it's no where near the top

 

WG does not nerf premiums. Stop worrying. The only thing which will obsolete the saipan will be the next premuin CV that might come along. People can buy that one then if they want.

 

This is the rub isn't it, you think I am lobbying for nerfing CV's. I am not. I could not care less. I might even play them again and try and improve with them.

 

From my uniformed view, the biggest nerf to CV's (Silver ones) is the Saipan coming along with T9 planes. I appreciate that there is a different skill with the saipan that needs to be learnt from the regular cv's, but anyone can buy one, so there is no basis for complaints on that side either.

 

Again, I am NOT lobbying for CV nerfs, we need ALL classes in the game to create intresting and diverse battles.

 

 

[TheOneAndOnlyGoldstein]

CV's always ruin games, manual drop should be removed, even better remove CV's from the game altogether

 

[Ragweek]

 

WG does not nerf premiums. Stop worrying. The only thing which will obsolete the saipan will be the next premuin CV that might come along. People can buy that one then if they want.

 

This is the rub isn't it, you think I am lobbying for nerfing CV's. I am not. I could not care less. I might even play them again and try and improve with them.

 

From my uniformed view, the biggest nerf to CV's (Silver ones) is the Saipan coming along with T9 planes. I appreciate that there is a different skill with the saipan that needs to be learnt from the regular cv's, but anyone can buy one, so there is no basis for complaints on that side either.

 

Again, I am NOT lobbying for CV nerfs, we need ALL classes in the game to create intresting and diverse battles.

 

 

Not a direct nerf but through the new capains skills. 

 

Firstly the skill is getting moved to t1 that makes lower tier fighters stronger.

 

Also air supremacy is getting dropped to t4 so every ship will be able to own the saipans small units.

 

Because yes they have planes at t9 but this is mitigated by only having half the amount in the air. 

 

The ranger sux but the ijn one was top of ranked battles for a reason. 

[aboomination]

You say cv is too powerful. ..........

 

Nah - I'm saying that CV are hard to balance because of their potential which few can unlock but those few absolutely dominate.

I'm on neither "side". You are a simple man, I get it!

[AgarwaenME]

CV's always ruin games, manual drop should be removed, even better remove CV's from the game altogether

 

Don't you ever get tired of whining the same way all day?

[dasCKD]

Ok, then please tell me what "head CV hater" is?

 

Your new title. I thought of it just now.

Is it not your poor try to discredit the poster instead of the post. Just like T_H_0_R who also tells me everytime that I would like to see CVs deleted, which surprises me everytime, he truly knows me better than I do myself.

 

I'm not using it to dismiss your arguments, so the criticism is hardly valid. I differ with a lot of other CV players on this. I do not believe that the player needs to play CVs to a large degree to comment on their balance. I simply think that basic competence is needed, something that the other two don't have. I never had issue with you saying that CVs are influential, that is commonly accepted by basically everyone. I simply do not think that a ship class is overpowered just because it can carry teams if need be. 

The avg CV player carries harder than the avg BB/DD/cruisers will do, thus CVs are OP.

 

An average CV player doesn't carry. An average player simply plays the game. Good players carry. Average players only carry games if the MM makes them the best or close to the best in terms of personal player performance. An average CV player only carries when the enemy carrier is worse than the average player is.

Just because there are some rare constellations which makes it harder to strike, doesnt mean that CVs suddenly become weak. Otherwise I would like to see all my DDs buffed, because if the enemy pushes my team with 3 radar cruisers in front my options to do something are severly limited.

 

If three radar cruisers begin to push, I can open fire on them before embedding myself into nearby islands so they will either be pushing into a torpedo spread if they want to get me or they will have their push pulled to a halt. I can throw some torpedoes their way before finding another part of the map where I can find myself useful. I can run back to my battleships so they'll be sailing to their deaths if they pursue me. I can also just go to my max range and rain invisible shots on their ships, great fun in the Yuugumo.

 

If 3 North Carolinas decide to sail up my lane, I can either go away or send my planes back to my Shokaku. If ONE Iowa decides to sail up my line I have to do the same thing and battleships aren't even meant to counteract carriers in the context of the game. A destroyer can still do damage against a cruiser and can win if the player skill is different enough. A cruiser can do the same thing to a battleship. A carrier can't. The AA bubble is a fundamental block to carriers as a class. No level of skill will allow a CV to play around it.

 

[Ragweek]

 

Nah - I'm saying that CV are hard to balance because of their potential which few can unlock but those few absolutely dominate.

I'm on neither "side". You are a simple man, I get it!

Calling someone a simple guy.

 

Then complaining that he dominates. 

 

Not quite hypocrisy but very strange  .

[Nechrom]

Yesterday 5D was performing clan strategies. Out of that 3 hour long test session, the most interesting part for me was that the de facto carrier player of our clan (70 solo WR on the US server, a bit less impressive on EU with his original account) was arguing for leaving out carriers from future tier 10 clan battles. He showed us his map calculations, and it is COMPLETELY impossible to remain outside of the AA range of the battleships and cruisers whilst so much as getting close enough to spot an enemy destroyer in the standard map control positions. The AA at tiers 8 to 10 is so strong and far reaching that attacking ships that is outside of another ship's AA bubble requires a legendary level of stupidity that myths would still speak of a millennia from now.

 

Obviously I'm talking about random battles.

 

And out of 12 players in random battles, how many on average stick together like that?

[aboomination]

Calling someone a simple guy.

Then complaining that he dominates. 

 

You know, we aren't in game atm, this here is about argumentation, not about clicking. Two different things. And I didn't talk about you.

[Redcap375]

 

Ok, then please tell me what "head CV hater" is?

 

Is it not your poor try to discredit the poster instead of the post. Just like T_H_0_R who also tells me everytime that I would like to see CVs deleted, which surprises me everytime, he truly knows me better than I do myself.

 

 

 

 

The avg CV player carries harder than the avg BB/DD/cruisers will do, thus CVs are OP.

 

Just because there are some rare constellations which makes it harder to strike, doesnt mean that CVs suddenly become weak. Otherwise I would like to see all my DDs buffed, because if the enemy pushes my team with 3 radar cruisers in front my options to do something are severly limited.

 

I knew you was a DD player m8, as I cant see your stats. Explains a few things. I would hate CVs if I was one too currently.

[dasCKD]

And out of 12 players in random battles, how many on average stick together like that?

 

Around 3-4, as they split down the two flanks. 5-6 on tier 10s, as most players tend to prefer to focus two caps which results in them grouping up. In my general observations, the only ships that splits from the fleet are the destroyers, Zaos, and Minotaurs.

[Ragweek]

 

You know, we aren't in game atm, this here is about argumentation, not about clicking. Two different things. And I didn't talk about you.

That's cool then. For a second I thought you were calling me a simple guy ( AKA) stupid. 

[aboomination]

That's cool then. For a second I thought you were calling me a simple guy ( AKA) stupid. 

 

Nah, just linear.