I would like peoples thoughts on this

[Kazomir]

Look at all the bismarck lovers lose their mind here. What will happen if the computer does not do 30% of their damage for them?

[ArkRoyal_R09]

I do feel like the range and RoF on the German Secondaries is Justified But having also having 15+ secondaries (7+ on one-side using Manual secondaries) with 8 and 9% fire chance is to much but rather than completely nerf the fire chance into the ground I thought that moving the 40% of the secondaries to AP (do more pen dmg but no fire chance) and having the other 60% stay where they are.

 

I would hope this would have the effect of keeping the Germans secondaries strong by reducing the fire damage inflicted (which generally harms cruisers and destroyers more as they cant repair as easily exceptions apply) but the reduced fire damage is compensated by having more direct AP damage done.

 

After all many players don't like hitting Dama Con only 10-20 seconds later to have 2 fires burning again for almost full duration due to the 4-5 second reload with 8-9% fire chance, I know the argument has been made of having correct use of Dama Con but that can only go so far.

[aboomination]

Look at all the bismarck lovers lose their mind here. What will happen if the computer does not do 30% of their damage for them?

 

I guess then the main guns will have to be 30% "better" 

 At the very least

 

 It's been a month or so since I took the Kurfurst out as I'm grinding up the RN CL line, so here goes. 

 

I didn't ask for basic lessons but thx for the effort!

 

[Hanszeehock]

 

Trolling again Hanszee?

 

How exactly do secondaries that fire HE exclusively up to a distance of 10,6 km encourage tanking...of any battleship that isn't the Bismarck?

 

What happens is that the team with the most Bismarcks tries to push and tank whereas the BBs on the other side made up of NCs and Amagi's try to engage outside secondaries range (read as "run for their lives").

 

So then the Bismarcks push the non-Bismarcks off of the caps which means that even if they lose on ships they still most likely win on points.

 

German secondaries are broken, and also to have such a skill-less feature in the game that allows players to just rake up damage with no effort is dumb beyond words.

 

Please stop pouring out nonsense.

 

Oh we are getting salty AnuS. Obviously you don't remember the glory days of the Nagato or Warspite secondaries. I was simply making the point, which you clearly do not understand, that any game mechanic which encourages players not to camp in their BBs must be a good thing. Perhaps you should just stick to seal clubbing in your Minekaze.......oh wait 

[Kazomir]

 

Oh we are getting salty AnuS. Obviously you don't remember the glory days of the Nagato or Warspite secondaries. I was simply making the point, which you clearly do not understand, that any game mechanic which encourages players not to camp in their BBs must be a good thing. Perhaps you should just stick to seal clubbing in your Minekaze.......oh wait 

 

How does Bismarcks secondaries encourage people not to camp? Quite the contrary, encourages everyone to sail away from a bismarck. 

[Ferry_25]

I disagree OP. The secondary build is compensating for the horrific dispersion of the KM BB's. Heck IMO the pre-buff Colorado is looking like a laser tight hitting machine compared to this joke of dispersion on long to mid-long encounters... The German BB's shine in close-ish combat situations. So no, don't take away the secondary perks!

[Hanszeehock]

 

How does Bismarcks secondaries encourage people not to camp? Quite the contrary, encourages everyone to sail away from a bismarck. 

 

The thread is about secondaries. Clearly by giving ships good secondaries it encourages people to use them. So for example if you have two or three Bismarcks on your team they are more likely to press forward and for the rest of the team to go with them. You are implying that if this happens the enemy will always run away ? That is not my experience, particularly in domination mode.

[Kazomir]

 

The thread is about secondaries. Clearly by giving ships good secondaries it encourages people to use them. So for example if you have two or three Bismarcks on your team they are more likely to press forward and for the rest of the team to go with them. You are implying that if this happens the enemy will always run away ? That is not my experience, particularly in domination mode.

 

Yes in domination mode that is true, but then the team with more busmarcks that dont get torped wins.

 

For a ship that is played by ludicrous amount of people (which should be the strongest average of all, and mind you the average player has 48% winrate) to have the best WR of all tier 8 BBs is telling. This ship and its secondaries are easy mode and insulting to any player that has worked for his damage and survival.

[Kenliero]

The problem with Bismarck is not secondaries. The real problem is that you can not citadel her even when she sails full broadside in front of you inside 5km... it's ridiculous...

[ArkRoyal_R09]

I disagree OP. The secondary build is compensating for the horrific dispersion of the KM BB's. Heck IMO the pre-buff Colorado is looking like a laser tight hitting machine compared to this joke of dispersion on long to mid-long encounters... The German BB's shine in close-ish combat situations. So no, don't take away the secondary perks!

 

The issue I have with this argument is that the Bis and other German BB's can still easily citadel other battleships and cruisers (granted angling in a BB helps but good luck in a crusier) and by just increasing the RNG value your just making another WoT arty. Not really a way to balance them.

 

As ive stated I dont find issue with the direct damage that the secondaries do but, I do have an issue with the passive fire damge that gets done which generally out performs the actaul secondary damage done. 

 

Is this more of a general fire issuse, maybe, but reducing the amount of HE being flung out of the german secondaries by replacing it with AP, I dont think this will reduce the the secondaries power too much.

[Lieut_Gruber]

The secondaries are fine as they are, and they make up for the rather lackluster penetration and accuracy of the main guns.

 

weird, if i check on German BB stats, they have the highest hit % of all 

[ArkRoyal_R09]

weird, if i check on German BB stats, they have the highest hit % of all 

 

My issue is not the hit ratio, IMO its nice to have the ship lines identifiable, they have their specific area where the excle like most other ship line we have ATM.

 

However why do they only spam HE. Its the exact same situation when the nagato and amagi got their secondaries changed to have more AP based secondaries. If its was a problem for them its a problem for the german line.

[Nargoth73]

I've played a fair bit of 'Marck and I have to say, lately a secondary build isn't paying off as much as before. People are wisening up and staying out of range. Now I have much more fun in my Tirp, because that closes the brawling gap to 6 km should you want to torp that pesky Fuso picking a fight (which I did yesterday, glorious).

 

I would say Bismarck is working as intended, weapon system wise. Although I have to stop my German gunners "teaching" their "skills" to my other ships' gunners. Couldn't hit a barn with my Fuso yesterday.

[Lieut_Gruber]

 

My issue is not the hit ratio, IMO its nice to have the ship lines identifiable, they have their specific area where the excle like most other ship line we have ATM.

 

However why do they only spam HE. Its the exact same situation when the nagato and amagi got their secondaries changed to have more AP based secondaries. If its was a problem for them its a problem for the german line.

 

​Yes, i agree on having a more survivable "tanky" BB in the frontlines, but i would like it to be a tank in the World of Warcraft way: able to take a huge beating, but not deal much damage, just enough that you cannot ignore it. I think reducing the secondaries range to 7-8km would be reasonable for a t8, and keep the fire chance.

[ArkRoyal_R09]

I'm curious now, is there a way that we could look up the average amount of  fire damage that a ship does. 

 

I know its not ideal as some ships will fire HE which would scew the results.

 

Im just curious if we could get some imperical info on the amount of fire damage the German BB's do.

[Jethro_Grey]

 

weird, if i check on German BB stats, they have the highest hit % of all 

 

Well yeah, you have to get close to get reliable damaging hits on other ships, take advantage of both the secondary batteries as well as the turtleback armor and in doing so, you get a higher hit percentage.

 

Most of the BBs i play as brawler have a way higher hit% compared to more medium-range-snipers like Amagi.

 

[AnuSuaraj]

 

Oh we are getting salty AnuS. Obviously you don't remember the glory days of the Nagato or Warspite secondaries. I was simply making the point, which you clearly do not understand, that any game mechanic which encourages players not to camp in their BBs must be a good thing. Perhaps you should just stick to seal clubbing in your Minekaze.......oh wait 

 

 

Really? Any game mechanic? Well, in that case, let's make BBs indestructible...

 

 

That should discourage camping completely, no? Must be a good thing right?

 

The fact that you fail to grasp is that Bismarck secondaries in combination with that armor and the apparent lack of a citadel make Bismarck overpowered, which is proven by statistics, you know, NUMBERS, and while such a ship encourages its owner not to camp, it encourages the opposition to do the exact opposite of not camping which is...drum roll...yeah, that's right.

 

One of these days you're going to grow a brain Hans...oh wait.

[AnuSuaraj]

 

Well yeah, you have to get close to get reliable damaging hits on other ships, take advantage of both the secondary batteries as well as the turtleback armor and in doing so, you get a higher hit percentage.

 

Most of the BBs i play as brawler have a way higher hit% compared to more medium-range-snipers like Amagi.

 

 

 

That and the fact that the German BB's have the best shells arcs and best shell speed.

 

 

So their guns are not actually inaccurate.

[AnuSuaraj]

 

The thread is about secondaries. Clearly by giving ships good secondaries it encourages people to use them. So for example if you have two or three Bismarcks on your team they are more likely to press forward and for the rest of the team to go with them. You are implying that if this happens the enemy will always run away ? That is not my experience, particularly in domination mode.

 

 

Dear god.

 

Seriously?

What people are saying, and what you are clearly not getting, is the fact that good players in Amagis and North Carolinas will always try to stay out of range of Bismarck secondaries (that's 10,6 km fully skilled out) since they don't want to be melted away by such a skill-less mechanic, which means that if you get the team with aggro Bismarcks and the enemy gets the team with Amagis and Carolinas, then your team gets pushed off the caps.

 

I have seen this happen a million times now.

 

Also, I think it's funny that BB players, the ones who had been calling CV players "clickers" since day one, are now perfectly happy with a skill that literally involves clicking a ship once and then watching that same ship die a slow and painful death.

FYI, 105mm guns on the Bismarck fire exclusively HE, and have the highest fire chance of all secondary guns (even the bigger ones), which negates the tanking ability of all BBs that aren't the Bismarck and whose secondaries fire mostly AP at short range.

Facts Hanszee...you might want to gent a handle on some before that ST title gets a bad rap...oh wait.

[Jethro_Grey]

 

 

That and the fact that the German BB's have the best shells arcs and best shell speed.

 

 

So their guns are not actually inaccurate.

 

At close range true, at the ranges some folks play them, i.e. 15km+ you have to get lucky to get reliable hits.

And i prefer to not rely on luck in a game that has RNG as first point of the game mechanic description.

[SgtTincan]

i've tried the secondary build on my monty and i get way more fires from those secondariy hits then with the fürst secondary build.

 

These days secondary build only catches those unaware or not to knowledgeable players, all others sail at 11km distance and laugh about your accuracy.