I would like peoples thoughts on this

[ArkRoyal_R09]

I would like to ask some peoples thoughts on having German BB's Secondaries changed, Looking at some games (I've not played any of the German BB line so no stats on my end) but German BB's look like that get a good amount of damage from fires set but secondaries (We can look at maybe be an average if someone can find the stats)

 

Now what I would like to purpose is that German BB's change from having mostly ( or in some case only) HE to having mainly AP just to cut down on the amount of overall damage that they can passively do thanks to the fires, keep the secondaries in all other aspects the same. I feel that this keeps the Germans "quirk" for lack of a better word of being AP orientated whilst not harming their brawling potential to much.

 

What are peoples thoughts on this suggestion, what would you change about what I've suggested ? Would you not change it ?

[Hanszeehock]

I think German BB secondaries are fine. Overall, good secondaries encourage tanking, and not staying at range, which is great for gameplay. The problem is with the Bismarck and higher, where they have excellent secondaries, a plane and hydro, which makes it difficult for DDs to tackle them.

[aboomination]

FYI: Your performance in GER BB is weak enough as is!

 

 

 

 The problem is with the Bismarck and higher, where they have excellent secondaries, a plane and hydro, which makes it difficult for DDs to tackle them. 

 

Actually today a DD sailed way inside my range for over a minute and my secondaries scored one single hit on him. Also if a DD gets spotted inside 10km my secondaries are the least of his problems.

And secondary build at tier 10? lol

[beercrazy]

that's a no from me

I play the german bb line and its a brawler not sniper and as such its guns after about 12k become damn iffy for getting good hits reliably unlike the Japanese or American line

so what do you give the germans if you remove some of its secondary power? better guns? more pen? more accuracy? torps on em all?

the german bb line is the only real brawling line at the moment and as such it needs the armour and secondary build or people will just leave em alone and not play em

 

I would recommend getting german bbs pal and then running that line upto Bismarck and then you will see how effective or ineffective the secondary guns are

 

[Vanhal]

It only looks scary (as all other secondaries).

 

Wait, what's the good advice BB captain always hear when saying something about fires? "Learn to manage your repairs". Yep, that's about it.

 

[ArkRoyal_R09]

As I've said I don't have any really significant stats to base the german BB line on so its completely based on replays and what I've seen in games, My only though was the change from HE to AP like what was done with the Nagato a long time ago now, I Not against the secondary set up at all but I felt that having the 8/9% on most of the secondaries that the Germans have it can seem like having 2 dd's strapped to the side of the ship (again I haven't played them so its complete conjecture).

 

For the record I don't want a complete swap from HE to AP (that is just stupid I think) but maybe a 60/40 split something like that.

 

I just felt that moving their Secondaries away from HE with reasonably fire chance and quick reload to AP with equally quick reload but more Pen would possibly result in a less harsh opinion from people. 

 

 

[aboomination]

would possibly result in a less harsh opinion from people

 

Who cares about the losers who post "class x is op bc I just got spanked" threads.

[ArkRoyal_R09]

 

Who cares about the losers who post "class x is op bc I just got spanked" threads.

 

Because I don't want the game to become a whine fest like WoT is and like what this is becoming I'd prefer to have a Discussion where people get a problem and the the response isn't "LOL L2P".

 

I'm on the internet I know but I can Dream.....

[AnuSuaraj]

I think German BB secondaries are fine. Overall, good secondaries encourage tanking, and not staying at range, which is great for gameplay. The problem is with the Bismarck and higher, where they have excellent secondaries, a plane and hydro, which makes it difficult for DDs to tackle them.

 

Trolling again Hanszee?

 

How exactly do secondaries that fire HE exclusively up to a distance of 10,6 km encourage tanking...of any battleship that isn't the Bismarck?

 

What happens is that the team with the most Bismarcks tries to push and tank whereas the BBs on the other side made up of NCs and Amagi's try to engage outside secondaries range (read as "run for their lives").

 

So then the Bismarcks push the non-Bismarcks off of the caps which means that even if they lose on ships they still most likely win on points.

 

German secondaries are broken, and also to have such a skill-less feature in the game that allows players to just rake up damage with no effort is dumb beyond words.

 

Please stop pouring out nonsense.

[aboomination]

Because I don't want the game to become a whine fest like WoT is

 

But it already is - and it was even before the introduction of GER BB.

 

 So then the Bismarcks push the non-Bismarcks off of the caps

 

Wait...which "non-Bismarcks" are you talking about? As if your typical BB (Bismarcks included) would actually try and contest crowded caps. Well, I do - that's why I have a below average survival rate and an above average dmg in the Bismarck.

[Cyclops_]

"I would like to ask some peoples thoughts on having German BB's Secondaries changed, Looking at some games (I've not played any of the German BB line so no stats on my end) but German BB's look like that get a good amount of damage from fires set but secondaries (We can look at maybe be an average if someone can find the stats)

 

Now what I would like to purpose is that German BB's change from having mostly ( or in some case only) HE to having mainly AP just to cut down on the amount of overall damage that they can passively do thanks to the fires, keep the secondaries in all other aspects the same. I feel that this keeps the Germans "quirk" for lack of a better word of being AP orientated whilst not harming their brawling potential to much.

 

What are peoples thoughts on this suggestion, what would you change about what I've suggested ? Would you not change it ? "

 

What!!!!, you will be saying that all ships must be exactly the same next!!!!

[Culiacan_Mexico]

I would like to ask some peoples thoughts on having German BB's Secondaries changed, Looking at some games (I've not played any of the German BB line so no stats on my end) but German BB's look like that get a good amount of damage from fires set but secondaries

 

The up coming skill change will allow BB players to combine the superstructure into 'one' area.  This might have an effect.

[El2aZeR]

Maybe Bismarck needs a slight nerf in RoF/range/fire chance (but only one category, not all), but overall KM secondaries are fine imo.

[aboomination]

Nah, they make up for the weak main guns. Only problem I see is that any pleb can deal dmg with secondaries, but still the 380mm with that dispersion don't cut it at tier 8.

[AmazingBeaver]

Biscmarck is fine.

[SovietFury43]

 

The secondary's encourage stupid BB players to play aggressively for once. That is a good thing.

 

The hydrophones and AA on the other hand have to go.

 

[juanxmar]

The secondary's encourage stupid BB players to play aggressively for once. That is a good thing.

 

The hydrophones and AA on the other hand have to go.

 

How would you know? Never played the ship...

[El2aZeR]

Nah, they make up for the weak main guns.

 

+ good penetration capable of theoretically penetrating citadels of any of her contemporaries at any range

+ high shell speed

+ low arcs

+ fast reload

+ fast turret traverse

- bad accuracy

- only 8 guns (but compensated by faster reload)

- only 380mm (which for her tier is still ok, really)

 

I like the main guns actually. The accuracy is nothing I'm not used to from the NC and it's imo a decent trade to make for all their good points.

[BillydSquid]

I would like to ask some peoples thoughts on having German BB's Secondaries changed, Looking at some games (I've not played any of the German BB line so no stats on my end) but German BB's look like that get a good amount of damage from fires set but secondaries (We can look at maybe be an average if someone can find the stats)

 

Now what I would like to purpose is that German BB's change from having mostly ( or in some case only) HE to having mainly AP just to cut down on the amount of overall damage that they can passively do thanks to the fires, keep the secondaries in all other aspects the same. I feel that this keeps the Germans "quirk" for lack of a better word of being AP orientated whilst not harming their brawling potential to much.

 

What are peoples thoughts on this suggestion, what would you change about what I've suggested ? Would you not change it ?

 

No. 

 

AP at that calibre bounces far too much, for secondaries which you can't manually aim, it's why the Amagi secondary build is completely unworkable. 

[aboomination]

I like the main guns actually. The accuracy is nothing I'm not used to from the NC and it's imo a decent trade to make for all their good points.

 

I just revisited the NC, and her guns are out of Bismarck's league. Also I know the Bismarck's guns and her traits very well - still I think that she needs her secondaries to compete with the NC/Amagi.

[BillydSquid]

FYI: Your performance in GER BB is weak enough as is!

 

 

 

 

Actually today a DD sailed way inside my range for over a minute and my secondaries scored one single hit on him. Also if a DD gets spotted inside 10km my secondaries are the least of his problems.

And secondary build at tier 10? lol

 

only build you should be running in the Kurfurst, get close and wreck crapor go home, only way to play the T10 effectively. It's a monster when played properly. 

[aboomination]

 

only build you should be running in the Kurfurst, get close and wreck crapor go home, only way to play the T10 effectively. It's a monster when played properly. 

 

GK's guns feel way more accurate than all the other GER BB's guns plus it's 12 of them and they reload quite fast (using the reload module). Meaning that relatively speaking the secondaries on the GK are weaker than on Gneisenau/Bismarck/FdG.

Also t10 gameplay sometimes just doesn't allow for aggressive plays while those fantastic 420's will rarely disappoint.

Btw, my GK stats are quite ok so far, yours are hidden. But I'm always looking for improvement. So if you have anything to back your words up, tell me!

[El2aZeR]

I just revisited the NC, and her guns are out of Bismarck's league. Also I know the Bismarck's guns and her traits very well - still I think that she needs her secondaries to compete with the NC/Amagi.

 

Should've probably mentioned that I played NC before the sigma buff.

 

I agree that she needs them, but they do seem just a tad bit too powerful. A very slight nerf to either of the 3 categories I mentioned before seems reasonable imo.

[Jethro_Grey]

The secondaries are fine as they are, and they make up for the rather lackluster penetration and accuracy of the main guns.

[BillydSquid]

 

GK's guns feel way more accurate than all the other GER BB's guns plus it's 12 of them and they reload quite fast (using the reload module). Meaning that relatively speaking the secondaries on the GK are weaker than on Gneisenau/Bismarck/FdG.

Also t10 gameplay sometimes just doesn't allow for aggressive plays while those fantastic 420's will rarely disappoint.

Btw, my GK stats are quite ok so far, yours are hidden. But I'm always looking for improvement. So if you have anything to back your words up, tell me!

 

It's been a month or so since I took the Kurfurst out as I'm grinding up the RN CL line, so here goes. 

 

The main guns, they're not any better, they have exactly the same dispersion and sigma problems as the FdG, you just have more shells to mitigate the RNG. 12 guns instead of 8 that's it. It'll feel better, but they're no more accurate, it's largely to do with the extra shells in the salvo, it does make a noticeable difference though. 

 

The Secondaries are not relatively weaker, they are largely the same, the Kurfurst's are better technically being split between the 128mm and 150mm not 105 mm, which have a slightly higher rate of fire so it's swings and roundabouts on the secondaries, FdG secondaries perhaps functions better vs DDs. But, Kurfurst's  can inflict more damage per hit. I didn't notice much difference between them. They're both damn good.

 

T10 always allows for aggressive play, but it depends whether you're in a position to exploit it or not. Yolo charging is going to get you killed of course but given the Kurfust is so massive you're going to be spotted from 15km anyway, so you may as well go full secondary build and max rate of fire on the main guns as the expert marksman captain skills largely offsets the decrease in turret rotation from the rate of fire mod, get close ie: 12km and wreck the enemy team so your DDs can win their knife fights with enemy DDs without being deleted by enemy CAs. DDs are by far the best escorts as CAs get deleted too quickly and the only real threats to the Kurfurst are torpedoes which if you're at 12km initially largely mitigate their potential (Fletcher, Gearing and Shima being 11km and 12km respectively, I think, I don't play DDs, which are the worst to go up against, the other DDs are significantly less of a threat), once they're dead/ running or on the other side of the map, there's nothing to stop the Kurfurst pushing in after the initial engagement. 

 

The idea is to not bum rush the enemy team as the Kurfurst turns like a pregnant cow, and getting caught between terrain and torpedoes will result in getting cross torp'd or getting blocked in by terrain and make your secondary guns useless. Initial engagements with DD vs DD, about 12 km is acceptable, knock out enemy CAs attacking your DDs, then move into 10km to use manual secondaries on the DDs, HAS should come into play now. Obviously if your DDs are crap, not much you can do but hold back a little and see if CAs can flush them out, 1 DD vs a Kurfurst, you can handle him on your own, 2 that's harder as cross torping becomes an issue if they're half competent and the Kurfurst is big, very big. 

 

Second, once the teams have thinned out a bit and scattered and a couple of DDs are either dead or far away from you, terrain is now a big bonus to block line of sight from scrub sniping BB players and CAs, Kurfurst is very fast for her size, 30knts, you know this. This is what I mean when I say get in close and wreck crap, ton for ton Kurfurst is the best ship for mid to close range brawls, actually getting in takes some practice. Use of terrain is key to block fire from multiple ships, she's tough, but not invincible, she's got the speed to take advantage of it terrain and once you know where the DDs are there's less of a risk involved.

 

I'll always use vigilance in combination with the premium HAS and the steering gears mod, I'd rather not get hit by torpedoes in the first place and with the premium consumable I've rarely found I need more than four repairs, I'm either dead or we've won by the time I've used them all up. I know Flamu and others might use superintendent and the repair mod, but I don't play with a division so I can't rely on a team mate to spot, hence I want to see where the torpedoes come from at the earliest and avoid them, not try to repair the damage once I've been hit, 5 I feel is over kill; and as I aggressively push I want the maximum warning possible and higher rudder shift possible to turn and maneuver the Kurfurst. 

 

The build I've been using is

 

Main armaments mod

secondary battery mod

main battery mod

damage control mod

steering gears

concealment

 

16pt captain

BoS

BTF

Expert marksman

Vigilance

ATF

Manual secondaries

 

I don't know your build or captain so what you've got may inform your play style or shift you to using the ship in another way, the way I play her superintendent's extra repair and the repair party mod isn't going to save me so I may as well put points into giving me the best possible skills to avoid the torpedoes, it's an all or nothing approach, if I get hit by torps at all it's usually multiple ones and I don't often survive. Death or glory.