Maybe put a limit on amount on BBs in a match WG?

[El2aZeR]

That is exactly why I want fewer cruisers in the game. Because their captains want more CVs in the game. I think they should wait until those people leave the game, and then give the cruisers some buffs like repair parties at lower tiers and so on. 

 

According to your logic we could also prevent people with below average stats from playing the game (that includes you). That'll also improve the game experience for a good part of the community.

 

Just face it for once, you're completely ignorant concerning game balance. CVs are not only an integral part, but vital to overall class balance. The lack of CVs is exactly why we have so many problems with it currently, yet your solution is to remove them entirely. See what's wrong?

 

I mean really, what exactly is your logic behind demanding the removal of CVs? Please keep in mind that realism and your own inability to perform against them are not valid arguments.

[Elenortirion]

 

That is exactly why I want fewer cruisers in the game. Because their captains want more CVs in the game. I think they should wait until those people leave the game, and then give the cruisers some buffs like repair parties at lower tiers and so on. 

 

oh and this is exacly this kind of people why some people still believes that radar introduction and ijn torpedo nerfs were good steps against lastyears infamous "torpedosoup"

 

that infamous amounts of shimakazes would not even start to be a problem if there was enought of CVs to have at least one per team in most battles

[steviln]

 

oh and this is exacly this kind of people why some people still believes that radar introduction and ijn torpedo nerfs were good steps against lastyears infamous "torpedosoup"

 

that infamous amounts of shimakazes would not even start to be a problem if there was enought of CVs to have at least one per team in most battles

 

How were carriers to solve the torpedo soup "problem"?

[Capra76]

The answer is obvious. The DEBBs are easier to play and BBs are the most popular class. They are much more new player friendly. 

 

On the other side the RNCLs below T6 are awful and it only tends to be experienced players who can grind through them successfully. 

 

Which is the exact opposite of what you were saying, namely that KM BB numbers were due to being a new line.

[El2aZeR]

How were carriers to solve the torpedo soup "problem"?

 

Scouting obviously. Something every CV worth his salt currently does.

[_ramrus_]

 

How were carriers to solve the torpedo soup "problem"?

 

By having more spotter planes than any other ship

[steviln]

I mean really, what exactly is your logic behind demanding the removal of CVs? Please keep in mind that realism and your own inability to perform against them are not valid arguments.

 

I simply do not think the game is fun while they are there, because they cause camping and lemmingtrains. 

[steviln]

 

By having more spotter planes than any other ship

 

But the planes should also perform other tasks than spotting torpedoes. Anyway, and "fun" game where CV fighters hang around their own battleships spotting torpedoes and ignore escorting their own fighters or fly CAP for their carrier. 

[Artech52]

Can we get things back on track here? Arguing realism was stupid from the start and feeding that troll is just taking this entire discussion off on an utterly irrelevant tangent.

[El2aZeR]

I simply do not think the game is fun while they are there, because they cause camping and lemmingtrains. 

 

On the contrary CVs can enable pushes by scouting ahead and they're more than capable of punishing camping. Lemmingtrains will always form regardless whether or not a CV is present. The concept that a Lemmingtrain is bad is kinda wrong in the first place, it depends entirely on how well coordinated the team is and how willing they are to keep pushing.

 

But the planes should also perform other tasks than spotting torpedoes. Anyway, and "fun" game where CV fighters hang around their own battleships spotting torpedoes and ignore escorting their own fighters or fly CAP for their carrier. 

 

They do. Usually you use DBs to scout after they've dropped their payload (since fighters should be used otherwise). It's not a 24/7 job, you don't need to keep every DD scouted from start to finish.

[Capra76]

Just a thought on making BB "easy to play".

 

It's still possible to have mismatched BB numbers so that for example a "hard to play" cruiser is matched against an "easy to play" BB, if BB are going to be easy to play and do the most damage that becomes pretty much an auto-loss for the team with one fewer BB.

[steviln]

 

On the contrary CVs can enable pushes by scouting ahead and they're more than capable of punishing camping. Lemmingtrains will always form regardless whether or not a CV is present. The concept that a Lemmingtrain is bad is kinda wrong in the first place, it depends entirely on how well coordinated the team is and how willing they are to keep pushing.

 

CVs cause camping because they punish ships that end up on their own. That makes people afraid to push because the get instantly sunk by CVs if they move to far from the other ships on their team. People that believe CVs prevent camping should form their own religious cult, because that belief really is a religion, having nothing to do with reality. I remember the first months after the release, when almost BBs consistenly hugged the mapped borders literaly. It is not by far that bad today!

[BCHood]

 

CVs cause camping because they punish ships that end up on their own. That makes people afraid to push because the get instantly sunk by CVs if they move to far from the other ships on their team. People that believe CVs prevent camping should form their own religious cult, because that belief really is a religion, having nothing to do with reality. I remember the first months after the release, when almost BBs consistenly hugged the mapped borders literaly. It is not by far that bad today!

 

Pushing in my BBs is generally not a problem if I have cruisers providing AA support. There's a key thing there, support. Every class has it's place.

 

On the OP, while there's no doubt there's too much BBs in the game, I don't think putting a limit is the answer. There's some good ideas on this thread, though.

[El2aZeR]

I remember the first months after the release, when almost BBs consistenly hugged the mapped borders literaly. It is not by far that bad today!

 

CVs were already pretty much dead by then, having been killed off during closed & open betas. That has literally nothing to do with CVs.

 

I must be playing a different game than you then, because when I clear a cap in a CV, DDs tend to get into it to cap, then the rest of the flank follows. The problem is that the gap between the average CV player and a skilled one is far too high, causing the team that has the worse CV player to camp as you described, thus CVs inevitably enable both pushing and camping. That still doesn't change that CVs are essential to class balance however.

 

Can we get things back on track here?

 

Tbh I think this is very much relevant since imposing some kind of limit is once again avoiding the issue at hand.

[steviln]

 

CVs were already pretty much dead by then, having been killed off during closed & open betas. That has literally nothing to do with CVs.

 

 

Guess it must have been really bad then... 

[malaquey]

 

Guess it must have been really bad then... 

 

I don't know about alpha but during CBT CVs were absolutely broken. First of all they didn't need to be balanced so you could have a midway vs a lexington (which ended predicatably) or even 2 CVs vs 1 (or 1 CV vs none). The Essex and Midway also had double torp bombers which gave them enough alpha to one shot all but tier X BBs, who would isntead die to the DB fires afterwards of course.

 

For my money CVs have been overly nerfed at this point though, CV players have to put a lot of work in to be effective (even if it doesn't look it) and in the current game they can be quite frustrating at times.

[mtm78]

The answer is obvious. The DEBBs are easier to play and BBs are the most popular class. They are much more new player friendly. 

 

So make them harder to play instead of easier and easier and easier and ... well you get the point  

[El2aZeR]

I don't know about alpha but during CBT CVs were absolutely broken.

 

No one disagrees on that, even most CV players agreed that CVs were far too powerful.

To put things into perspective, I remember a game in which my team had an Essex and the enemy team a Hakuryu (I was sailing a Monty). In a rare display of team effort, almost our entire team (I vaguely remember it consisting of a DM, at least 2 Zao's, 2 Yamas, an Iowa and ofc my Monty) hunkered down around the Essex to protect him from the inevitable snipe, but the Haku STILL got enough planes through to severely damage our Essex, which was then wiped out by a 2nd strike. To no surprise, we lost that match. Badly.

The first few nerfs were well deserved and actually quite effective in limiting the power of a CV (adding Def AA, changes to loadouts, increasing the min range of air-dropped torps and nerfing their damage), but then WG went completely overkill on it with literally every major patch including some nerf to CVs up until recently.

[steviln]

 

So make them harder to play instead of easier and easier and easier and ... well you get the point  

 

Then they will lose a lot of players I guess. I think the reason is that a lot of players now are people well into adulthood that mostly play turn based strategy games and RTS games. If I would take a guess most CV haters fall into that category. People to have gotten to old to readapt or lost the interest in readapting to fast action paced games, and therefore play WOWS because of the relatively slow pace. 

[mtm78]

But then they should finally rename it back to World of Battleships so I can uninstall the game and go play something else

 

As long as they call it World of Warships there should not be a focus being made on creating a class which is easier to play then the others, it's just not a good gameplay decision and will bite WG in the behind in the long run. 

 

Don't get me wrong, playing a BB really good is not easy mode, it's actually perhaps even one of the hardest classes to do really well in. But if you're joe average, BB's are the most relaxing class to play since they are 'forgiving' ( in that sniping joe's don't get deleted that early in the game, allowing them to blame their statistical performance on 'bad teams' and so on ). 

[steviln]

But then they should finally rename it back to World of Battleships so I can uninstall the game and go play something else

 

As long as they call it World of Warships there should not be a focus being made on creating a class which is easier to play then the others, it's just not a good gameplay decision and will bite WG in the behind in the long run. 

 

Don't get me wrong, playing a BB really good is not easy mode, it's actually perhaps even one of the hardest classes to do really well in. But if you're joe average, BB's are the most relaxing class to play since they are 'forgiving' ( in that sniping joe's don't get deleted that early in the game, allowing them to blame their statistical performance on 'bad teams' and so on ). 

 

Yes, they should rename it World of Battleships I still think you are wrong, exactly because WOWS in even a larger degree than WOT attract players that would not usually play arcade like games. For people that play a lot of action games, I do agree that the game was better they way it was. It was pure gameplaywise a better game. However,for the history buffs(or more honestly "battleship fetishists"), strategy games players and so on, the game is better now. I must say that I often play this rather than War Thunder, which I think is a much better game really, because this one is more relaxing. 

 

And I really love german BBs even though I avoid them lately myself(except the Scharnost), since it lets less gifted players like myself sink something that give a lot of XP and damage I like the BB heavy meta because it attracts other players that are really bad at action games

[Deckeru_Maiku]

I remember the first months after the release, when almost BBs consistenly hugged the mapped borders literaly. It is not by far that bad today!

 

Instead of Borderhugging they now try to get a mayor in Islandhugging. There was no Islandhugging when there were many CVs, as they punished the huggers. And Borderhugging never worked against good (!) CV captains, as it is as easy to torp a Borderhugger as if the ship is sailing somewhere

 

[steviln]

 

Instead of Borderhugging they now try to get a mayor in Islandhugging. There was no Islandhugging when there were many CVs, as they punished the huggers. And Borderhugging never worked against good (!) CV captains, as it is as easy to torp a Borderhugger as if the ship is sailing somewhere

 

 

I love islandhugging BBs as I mostly play ships with torpedoes. 

[mtm78]

I love islandhugging BBs as I mostly play ships with torpedoes. 

 

Island hugging BB's = epitome of static gameplay. 

[Chekotay]

Why not try reducing all BB range to something more in line with Cruisers, and potentially keep current dispersion level as it is. This would encourage BBs to close the range to get decent dispersion, and make cruisers more worthwhile to play, as well as bringing a fleet together.. which means BB AA can be reduced as a cruiser will be close by..might be worth testing to see how it plays out