Calling All Hands - To An Open Boycott

[mtm78]

 

did you ever like ever DD bro?

 

cause [aside from grammar] you don't sound like you ever touched any DD

 

No he hasn't. At least not at any decent level or he would never make such blatantly ignorant statements.

[anonym_VGtT7ixQxHUH]

Players tend to vote with their feet - if the player community does not like the RDF they will stop playing, simple as that.

 

yeppppppp.... so true .. i will .... lets call on the nuke button 

[AnuSuaraj]

Yeah.

 

I didn't actually expect even 0,1% of the playerbase to actually boycott the game. I just wanted to make it known how much I hate this new "skill" and see if there are others that would go to extreme lengths to freaking kill it.

 

Exploit this skill? Yes, I could do that. I could strap it on my Gearing and rid the world of those pesky Shimakazes.

 

But then again, I'm going to get the Shima too soon enough and then what? Should I play it knowing full well that the vessel's key ability, namely the ability to stealthily torp other ships, is now bordering on useless?

 

People saying that this alleged skill was implemented to provide more tactical options and that it really isn't that big of a deal are WRONG. The skill doesn't add depth to the game. It actually strips tactical depth any way you slice it.

 

People saying that this game is necessary for e-sports or ranked battles are wrong again. What is actually necessary is a fundamental change to the way that spotting and smoke meta work.

 

They've already tried to counter their broken smoke meta with radar, and it didn't freaking work. It just made the game worse.

 

So, allow me to explain, once and for all, the reasons behind the implementation of this skill.

 

There are two kinds of torpedo boat players at the moment.

 

Type 1 is your average to bad DD player that spams widespreads from maximum range, hoping for a random torp hit every once in a while.

 

Such DD players will only occasionally aggrieve drooling BB players such as my halfwit friend simple Jimmy.

 

Type 2 is that rarer type of a good DD player that often goes man mode to the edge of his detectability range and launches tight spreads at straight lining BBabies.

 

Such DD players will often infuriate whiny BB players to the point of madness.

 

So, much like the current RADAR consumable, this RPF skill is nothing more than an attempt to turn Type 2 aggressive DD players into meek Type 1-s that, instead of scoring torpedo kills, will only ever score torpedo hits, and quite rarely so.

 

That's all this skill is.

 

BB players will take this skill, especially the bad ones AKA the ones that good DD players often eliminate, and furthermore, when you add up the fact that proper torpedoing of targets is even now one of the harder things to do in the game, especially in the higher tiers, one can easily conclude that this skill will be the last nail in the coffin of all torpedo boats or rather IJN DDs.

 

I mean, right now you have spotter players flying wide circles around BBs and CLs and spotting ships and torpedoes alike. You have RADAR from 9,6 to 11,6 km range that allows Russian and American CLs to block huge chunks of the map for any DD with a single push of a button and even through terrain (have no freaking idea how that works). You have American, Russian, and German DDs always on the prowl.

 

So there's already an abundance of tactical options to counter concealed torpedo boats.

 

Which means that this skill is in fact intended for the aforementioned purpose of pushing DDs back from the edge of their detectability and to relegate them into second line roles.

 

It's transparent for me.

 

But if the rest of you are fine with it, then I don't really care either.

 

I'll just delete WoWS like I did WoWP, and then go back to tanks - a game that with all it's faults has always maintained that developer standpoint of "...if you have skill, you will own."

 

That's a direct quote from a World of Tanks developer by the way. I think WoWS developer quote at the moment would be something in the lines of: "Oh, you have skill? Oh, that's too bad because you're about to get owned by my one button crutch mechanic biyatch..."

 

And they think they will increase the player base by flattening the skill curve, when they have direct experience that this is never the case.

 

Flat skill curve equals no feeling of player's progression which then equals boredom which then equals dying of the player base.

 

And these people just keep looking at statistics, trying to contrive a better way to get some short term profits when they should be focusing on making the game better which automatically makes it more profitable, not just short term but in the long run as well.

 

See World of Warcraft and League of Legends for clarification.

 

As for the boycott, yeah, I'm not an idiot. I had no illusion that it would work, I just wanted to dish out some extremism hoping it would at least slightly nudge the players into action.

 

I knew it was a far stretch though.

[AnuSuaraj]

Anyway, I removed the date so that people can make suggestions.

 

Just in case anybody cares.

 

Question: With these new Leader type DDs coming into play, does anybody else get the feeling that this whole game in a couple years time will just be a shooting range for Bebes?

 

It'll be like:

Leader class DD! It does not have Citadel but it dies quickly to an HE salvo. Hellz yeah!

Crusier! Fire AP for citadel hits. Dead in one salvo? Hellz yeah!

RPF says Japanese DD nearby. Engage Radar! Activate Secondaries! Dead! Hellz yeah!

Wait! Planes incoming! Click on planes! Planes gone! Hellz yeah!

Oh, finally! Only Bebes left now! Click them secondaries! Exchange salvoes at 18km. Hellz yeah!

 

Maybe the other classes should be bots? What do you think?

[LilJumpa]

 

As for the boycott, yeah, I'm not an idiot. I had no illusion that it would work, I just wanted to dish out some extremism hoping it would at least slightly nudge the players into action.

 

I knew it was a far stretch though.

 

What action?

The only action which has the slightest possibility of being heard is commenting on the forums and on reddit, in a proper way and in the right place.

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/forum/485-public-test/

(reddit is an example of interaction with officials)

 

It is still unlikely that they will not introduce it, since it seems to be part of some sort of greater plan in their development, but at least it is a chance and you actually only need enough people supporting.

 

That is it, no other options.

[BCHood]

While I see this as potentially balance breaking skill, people need to actually give it a fair chance before whining and crying nerfs. WG won't take it nearly as seriously as whwn it's substantiated by a number of battles, and real statistics.

 

Don't be like those new players being sunk because they sailed straight and then being salty and venting on the forums. Try adapting to it, give it some time. That's exactly what I'm going to do, as I just recently got Leningrad and had LoYang and Anshan from before, and working towards the few end USN DD line ships. 

 

If the game is completely broken after the skill hit live and some time has passed for players to build a proper opinion based on experience - and WG have enough of statistics to see for themselves that players are correct, then it's the right time to collectively stand up together - like we did for the Convoy, and ultimately succeeded - together.

[The_Great_SCH]

They will probably change it. The feedback they got until now is just bad, they know it. So it is a matter of time until they will change someting about it. 

 

It will surely backfire on them, because it this skill is meant for the more casual non-unicorn players, it will be the opposite. 

 

Really good players who actually think, will use it to punish the bad ones even more. And even in a DD, i have few ideas how i will make this skill to work to my advantage, and i am not sure if i will ever take it.

 

WG should really listen to the ones who test it and gives the feedback. And in this case, the compeittive players should be the ones who decide it's faith, considerint WG wants more competitive tournaments going on. 

 

Many ships, premiums included, will lose their role in the games, BB's will be fine, but that's it. You want more camping? Because that's how you get more camping!

[OMG_Noob]

So everyone that I know and that has half a brain has now tested the RPF skill. And they all pretty much say what I already knew.

 

Or, factually, that the Radio Positioning Skill strips the game of one of its better mechanics - the finesse of spotting and searching, and of using skill and situational awareness to find and kill concealed ships.

 

It's not that big of a deal. That's what I've heard some say.

 

They're wrong. There's this thing called the law of smaller numbers, or namely, that those numbers eventually add up to one very large number.

 

Or in this case, random crutch mechanics designed to rectify broken parts of the game's general meta (the way smoke and spotting works in the game) eventually add up to a skill-less meta made up of one button actions and passive in game assistance that are misleadingly labeled as "captain skills".

 

It's called lazy developing basically, and I've already seen this ruin one promising title called World of Warplanes.

 

World of Warplanes was easy to play, and hard to master all the way up Beta update 3.1. And then they decided to make it easier to play, with barely anything to master.

 

The idea was to attract less skilled players into the game, but it spectacularly backfired because even causal players get bored of a game that has a skill curve flatter than the Earth had back in the 15th century.

 

And so now they want to mess up ships the same way.

 

And they also say that those who oppose implementation of such skills as RPF are actually the minority.

 

As an educated and intelligent grown up that has already invested lots of time and a fair amount of actual money into the game, all the way from the Alpha Test to now, I say: LET'S FIND OUT.

 

Let's have ourselves a good old fashioned boycott!

 

What's this boycott thing and how do I participate?

 

Well first, you post in this thread saying that you support the cause, and then:

 

- You stop playing the game

 

This means you don't log into the game nor do you play a single battle.

 

- You stop making purchases of WG's in game and premium shop offers

 

You don't buy anything both in game or in the premium shop.

 

I'm just curious to see how many will sign up and if we really are a minority.

 

Maybe this will backfire in my face spectacularly as well, but I would rather try something than go through another WoWP.

 

Anyone interested?

 

Nice post AnuSuaraj, 

We know the pain of playing WOWP & how they ruined the game! 

I think after some future updates, new tech line this game will be another WOWP for sure!

May be after 1.4 patch of wows (as wowp) LOL 

[Dampfboot]

I will only play BB and some Cruisers (maybe) after the skill is live. If they keep it for ranked its totally stupid anyway.

[daki]

Very childish and useless "initiative".

The only purpose this type of threads achieves is to further paint the EU forums as being full of "angry kids" with whom any form of normal communication is pointless.

 

I for one have no intention to "boycott" in any manner a game which is good imho and provides me with tons of fun.

While I do not agree with certain decisions of WG, the only good way to go is to provide well argued and polite feedback.

Sometimes they will listen and sometimes not. That is how things work in reality and anyone believing in the opposite is either delusional or just put simply a troll.

[Venatacia]

How about everybody stops playing CVs for a year. Now that would show them not to mess with playerbase.

 

​That's an easy one, I started over a year ago.

[OMG_Noob]

Anyone interested?

 

This little boy say "Stop" lol

[The_Fear_Of_All_Sums]

Well first, you post in this thread saying that you support the cause, and then:

 

 

Another social media obsessed child who thinks He means something to the world. 

 

[Spuggy]

I agree with what someone posted earlier.

 

Best way to make them change RPF if you hate it is to use it in a way that is game breaking.

 

Exploit the sh!t out of it any way you can. Make the developers see how broken it is by good players breaking it for new players. Eventually they will see their mistake that way.

[tsachev]

More than two thirds of the losses i have are due to destroyers that either die too early or are useless trying to flank or chase high tier carrier. And this is before the Radio Positioning.

 

Nothing will change next week. The bad destroyer players will continue to play badly with or without this skill. The good ones will continue to press you from the caps and you will whine more.

 

So, my advice: start using this skill too and do your job in cap zones! And pray that the rework of carriers will not make them stronger against destroyers and weaker against others.

[Gaunter_O_Dimm_]

I tested it out on gearing and demoing, it's so broken  

[ajb13]

RDF gets more broken the fewer players are left in the game. In close games with only a few ships left and both sides scrambling for points a ship with RDF will turn it for them.

 

Scenario1: one side pushes for caps while the other camps and just kills ships. The first side builds up a healthy points lead but is down to one ship with not enough time for the second side to take caps and turn it around. All they need to do is hide and run the clock down for the win as the other side starts to push forward to finish them off. How much harder will this be If someone with RDF knows where they are running too?

 

Scenario2: Close on points and taking or losing caps could decide it. One side down to a destroyer and the other side a cruiser with RDF. Normally the cruiser would need to guess which cap the DD was heading for but not now, RDF tells him. He can just keep moving towards the DD to keep it away from caps and is in little danger of being torped as he knows he'll be facing them bow on. Unless the DD stands a chance in a gun battle he might as well just Scuttle himself in this case.

 

Even earlier in the game this skill will make it a lot harder for DD's to operate. Ambushes, stealthy torpedo strikes and sneaking around open flanks will be much harder against ships with RDF. The case being made for RDF is that it's too expensive for anybody to use so it won't be a problem. Well the Forum is littered with posts from players complaining about stealth and torpedoes, surely some of them will take RDF? And if it's to expensive to be used why put it in at all?

 

But is a boycott practical? Not really. It's numbers would be to small as only a small percentage of players could be reached via the forum, and most of those won't be directly effected by RDF as they mostly play non stealth ships (eg BB players who seem to be in the majority at the moment.)

 

That said, what with this skill and all the extra catapult planes spotting torpedoes, I plan on selling all my non premium DD's after next update, as I expect many other players will be doing as well.

[anonym_XGuN6pHmfiJ9]

The problem that I have is that that radio skill feels a little bit as magic. You feel a presence but you not really sure and it is not based on technology.

[Date_A_Bullet]

I will just boycott playing DDs.

 

---

Also to the "its not that big of a deal"-faction:
Do you realise there are also ranked battles and upcoming clan battles to think about?

Only one player there needs to use the skill an you can see which cap the enemy is going for.
You can see if a DD tries to flank you.

At the End game you are doomed as last standing if some RPF-user is still alive at the enemy team.

Yes the impact for random battles will not be that big. But it will ruin the competetive playstyle of this game.

[AnuSuaraj]

So I just went to Reddit to see the general stance there, and it seems to be the same as on the Forums.

 

Most people hate that skill. So I then went to the developer Q&A and saw the following question:

 

Player:

Hi! I have two questions:

• Do you plan to buff the most underpreforming IJN DDs? Also the upcoming changes like RDF skill and the removing of stealt fire make them totally unplayable.

Let me explain: The following IJN DDs have the worst win rate, below 50% and damage compared to their tier counterparts: Fubuki ( she has worst stats than old Mutsuki and that DD considered bad...); Kagero; Yuugumo and Shimakaze. I made some screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/Zrres

IJN DDs really need some fix beause they have very few advantages left because either WG nerf them directly, like torpedo detection range or introduce new mechanics which nerf them indirectly like radar, and now the upcoming Radio Position Finding skill will cripple totally the torpedoboat gamestyle. The only really advantage what left for IJN DDs are stealth and Radio Position Finding skill and the planned stealth fire remove will be the last nail into the coffin. So please consider the followings and don't ignore these issues. Because atm it looks like WG is trying to make IJN DD line more and more useless and uncompetitive on purpose.

 

It is a completely legitimate question since IJN DDs are currently under-performing on all tiers even before RPF implementation.

 

The reply from the developer calling himself Sub_Octavian was astounding:

 

Sub_Octavian:

 

Hello!

Currently there are no plans to buff IJN DDs and no fact that they are/will be unplayable. Typically, when IJN DD player has slightly worse avg.stats, it is because of trying to spam torps from longest distance possible. In the early days, that was a viable and effecient option - not anymore. IJN DDs became more skill-demanding and difficult. We realize that, but we are not inclined to change that.

There is no purpose in doing any line uncompetitive. That would be very dumb of us. However, making line more demanding is acceptable.

I am sorry that I did not provide the answer you probably was looking for, but there it is.

 

Un-freaking-believable!

 

So this developer clearly has no idea how the game that's he's developing functions in actuality, and he even honestly believes that things like nerfing detectability range, adding things like radar, longer range sonar, and now RPF skill actually counters that long range torp spammer type of player rather than creating more of the same.

 

The man is delusional.

 

Naturally the replies poured in and this guy made a valid point:

 

Player:

You do realize you contradict yourself here. The reason they are harder to play and perform worse is because they just have worse stats, period. You are saying people need more skill to make up for the nerfs, this is true, but you are ignoring the second part of it: that player skill can be applied to other lines for much better results than playing on nerfed IJN DD's that are terrible.

You say IJN DD's are not uncompetitive, but think about this: WG has made the line more skill-demanding, yes, but that is due to the terrible performance of the ship which leads to needing better skill to perform to the same level than on USN DD's.

Now to ask you this question: If a player plays on IJN DD's and USN DD's, which will he perform better on? The answer is obvious, he would perform better on the Fletcher/Gearing because they are pretty damn good. If a player is able to perform well in an IJN DD due to having good skill, then he would do even better in a USN one. Which brings us to the point of uncompetitiveness: If you want to maximize your chances of winning, while having the same skill, you will always pick the better ship. So yes, I feel IJN DD's do not have a place right now.

With IJN torpedo nerfs, USN torps are way better, and they will by default also win in a close range gun fight due to reload speed and turret traverse. US DD's also have pretty good concealment, and higher fire-starting potential and DPM per minute. IJN doesn't have a place in the meta now, because USN does everything better.

 

The TL/DR version of the reply would be something in the lines of "How the hell can you believe that it is ok to ask players to invest more skill into one line or tree just to get similar results to all the other trees?"

 

This is a perfectly valid and logical point. For a similar amount of skill you should get similar results no matter what line or nation you prefer. This is how all WG games have been balanced thus far but, apparently, not anymore, or rather not in WoWS.

 

In WoWS the IJN DD line has been made apparently "more demanding to play". I assume this has something to do with the fact that the IJN DD line targets battleships almost exclusively.

 

The player on Reddit also mentioned how ever since the US DD buff (which was also technically IJN DD nerf)  the US DD tree has been superior in practically all aspects to IJN DDs, especially on the higher tiers, and even in terms of torpedoes.

 

There was no reply to this.

 

I am truly shocked by the lack of logical deductive abilities of the said developer.

[Dragnorak]

ill be able to tell immediatly how broken it is by my stats as I only play IJN DDs. Ill be watching closely once they implement it.

[JiksTBS]

I utterly despise RPF for the reasons explained on the PT threads but I won't be boycotting the game entirely. Until it's implemented, that is, I have no interest in playing a point & click adventure. It's unfortunate a lot of players don't realize how it will effect the game, thinking it's just DDs that will be harmed but not that surprised either. Nothing surprises me these days ^^

 

What I have already done is closed my wallet & that's not going to change. I personally don't think WG care if we play or not but will care if we don't pay.

 

That said, totally understand your view, OP, at least you are trying to do something.

[MeTaLMooSe]

I've paid a metric fucktron to play this game and any captain skills won't effect anyone but the unicoms.

I fail to agree to any of your terms.

Either piss of and play another game or await a rebalance after public play.

It's really not rocket science that WG don't want to alienate their customers.........................................

Have faith in the fact that they may have more stats available than you do and are trying to balance accordingly.

[jure_eruj]

I'll stop playing DDs and I'll stop buying premium time and ships, I will just leech their resources from now on.

[mtm78]

While I see this as potentially balance breaking skill, people need to actually give it a fair chance before whining and crying nerfs. WG won't take it nearly as seriously as whwn it's substantiated by a number of battles, and real statistics.

 

Don't be like those new players being sunk because they sailed straight and then being salty and venting on the forums. Try adapting to it, give it some time. That's exactly what I'm going to do, as I just recently got Leningrad and had LoYang and Anshan from before, and working towards the few end USN DD line ships. 

 

If the game is completely broken after the skill hit live and some time has passed for players to build a proper opinion based on experience - and WG have enough of statistics to see for themselves that players are correct, then it's the right time to collectively stand up together - like we did for the Convoy, and ultimately succeeded - together.

 

How about NO?

 

Adapting to something which kills tactical use of concealment....

 

 

edit:

 

Either piss of and play another game or await a rebalance after public play.

It's really not rocket science that WG don't want to alienate their customers.........................................

 

Paradoxical statement right there