The French Cruiser's Thing

[dasCKD]

Following the introduction of the improved fire prevention skill, anything centered around HE is bound to fail anyway.

 

Incendiary HE is the skill I conceptualized with that skill in mind. Traditional 2 point superstructure flame regions are to be combined into one. This skill will open 3 points of fire for all battleship with the skill to French cruisers.

The BB Mafia has won and the game is slowly dying, deal with it.

 

The dominance of BBs is, in my opinion, something that has come about due to history. Not world history, in game community history. Battleship captains who don't know what they're doing complain, and so WG eventually conceded. The rest of the players probably stayed silent because they believed that nothing would change and that WG would want to maintain the integrity of the game and they were wrong. WG does what it things will bring in profit. It sees people complaining about weapons that hurt battleships and nothing else and so they reasoned that the dissatisfaction in the game is caused by battleships being too weak despite them being anything but. The current situation is bought about by the inaction of those before us and I have no intention of letting it happen again.

[dasCKD]

I'm surprised there't not more battleship mains in here, whining.

[Kazomir]

I'm surprised there't not more battleship mains in here, whining.

 

I still  think that french BBs or DDs are more likely than cruisers.

 

I mean french cruisers seem pretty boring from what ive seen, even straining myself i cant see what will differentiate them from the rest. May be gun handling from what was seen on the dunkerque, but still, their BB projects like alsace seem way more interesting.

 

[aboomination]

I'm surprised there't not more battleship mains in here, whining.

 

Why would anyone whine in here? You need to l2bait.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

Im not even sure the French will get cruisers...i mean their DD and BB lines would be much more fleshed out.

 

Can somebody think of a tier 8 9 or 10 french cruiser?

 

Suffren and Algerie easily fit at tiers 8 and 9 respectively. Tier 10 would have to be a paper design (i'm not sure what French ones existed but I'm sure there's one there. Probably akin to a super Myoko or Zao in armament layout.) The tiers before that are filled mostly with light cruisers, with options for premium cruisers at tiers 4/5 and 7/8. I'll post a potential tech tree in a little bit to demonstrate this point. Personally though, I feel that French Cruisers and DD's are not only much more needed, but much more viable than BB's. With current BB's there's a gap in real ships at tiers 5, 7 and 9 and 10. (Jean Bart/Courbet at tier 4, Strasbourg at tier 6 and Richelieu at tier 8.) They really didn't build very many of them. We also can't forget the CV Bearn, which I will assume be a premium at tier 6 or 7. Can't make a line of CV's as Bearn was the only one (that wasn't bought from someone else, and even then there were no other fleet CV's, just CVL's.)

[dasCKD]

I still  think that french BBs or DDs are more likely than cruisers.

 

I'd be inclined to agree in the case of their destroyers, but not their battleships. Their destroyers are fascinating, perhaps more gunboaty than the Russians whilst they might be better objective hunters thanks to being faster and potentially more sneaky. Their battleships, whilst possessing gun layouts that would make them nigh perfect for ranked and clan wars, are still just battleships. Big, well armored ships with dangerous guns and sluggish handling.

I mean french cruisers seem pretty boring from what ive seen, even straining myself i cant see what will differentiate them from the rest. May be gun handling from what was seen on the dunkerque, but still, their BB projects like alsace seem way more interesting.

 

They are indeed quite dull. The ammunition suggestion I made was to address this issue. The Alsace seems like a departure from the French battleship's "thing" though, and really isn't that much different from what a Montana already offers in the game minus the AA performance.

[dasCKD]

Why would anyone whine in here? You need to l2bait.

 

I suppose. I had far more success with my missile thread. Maybe I should just be needlessly pedantic in the opening paragraph of my posts to raise user engagement

[Kazomir]

 

I'd be inclined to agree in the case of their destroyers, but not their battleships. Their destroyers are fascinating, perhaps more gunboaty than the Russians whilst they might be better objective hunters thanks to being faster and potentially more sneaky. Their battleships, whilst possessing gun layouts that would make them nigh perfect for ranked and clan wars, are still just battleships. Big, well armored ships with dangerous guns and sluggish handling.

 

They are indeed quite dull. The ammunition suggestion I made was to address this issue. The Alsace seems like a departure from the French battleship's "thing" though, and really isn't that much different from what a Montana already offers in the game minus the AA performance.

 

If we go by the Dunkerque's gun performance, which boasts spectacular penetration and handling for a 330mm gun, the Quad Gun Alasace project will rip ships to pieces.

[dasCKD]

If we go by the Dunkerque's gun performance, which boasts spectacular penetration and handling for a 330mm gun, the Quad Gun Alasace project will rip ships to pieces.

 

There's still the issue that they're still mostly just ships with tweaked gun performance though. They don't bring anything new to the game really apart from easier to use battleships thanks to the superior shell velocity. I for one would think that expanding the cruiser and destroyer lines are far more beneficial to the game's health overall. Once that has been established, then the creation of more battleships can be dealt with. As things are, introducing a second line of battleships with the current meta would be hazardous to the existing game balance.

 

Back on topic though: considering how unexceptional the French cruisers appear to be, what would be your proposal for their specialty?

[Exocet6951]

 

 

Back on topic though: considering how unexceptional the French cruisers appear to be, what would be your proposal for their specialty?

 

There's really no way to do so.

 

They're really just bland, with some of them being extremely fragile in terms of armor, somewhat compensating by having supossedly superior compartimentalization (repair party maybe?).

 

 

At best, they'll have pretty good AA, good gun handling.

Make them a mix of USN and RN CA/CLs.

They won't be particularily breathtaking, but they'll be functional.

 

 

Leave the madness to the hands of the BBs and DDs.

Those show promise.

 

WG pls, 16x380mm Super Alsace at tier10, and 45knot Le Fantasque.

[Kittykami]

Well looking at Dunkerque, the characteristics seem to indicate great HE performance on French shells, so maybe it will be a line of HE focused ships similar to the Yorck?

[Deamon93]

 

There's really no way to do so.

 

They're really just bland, with some of them being extremely fragile in terms of armor, somewhat compensating by having supossedly superior compartimentalization (repair party maybe?).

 

 

At best, they'll have pretty good AA, good gun handling.

Make them a mix of USN and RN CA/CLs.

They won't be particularily breathtaking, but they'll be functional.

 

 

Leave the madness to the hands of the BBs and DDs.

Those show promise.

 

WG pls, 16x380mm Super Alsace at tier10, and 45knot Le Fantasque.

 

France had good AA after Uncle Sam came along, before then was crap

[CleverViking]

Well I know I'll be playing the French ships purely for the French voiceovers (they are glorious).

 

 

[ApesTogetherStronK]

So I have a preliminary tech tree for French Cruisers that I made up quickly, I also left room for DD's, BB's and their couple of CV's later. 

Main issue is I'm missing designs for tiers 1 and 4, as no French ships were built that fit either of these as far as I can find out, though I'm sure a design for both exists somewhere.

 

[aboomination]

similar to the Yorck

 

 

 Well I know I'll be playing the French ships purely for the French voiceovers (they are glorious)

 

SACRE BLEUE - LES TORPEDEUS [edited] DE [edited]E!

 

[Exocet6951]

 

France had good AA after Uncle Sam came along, before then was crap

 

The USN added something that was much needed to the French ships in the 40's: bofors. Many bofors. ALL THE BOFORS. DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

 

*herm*

 

Excuse me.

 

 

So yeah, they added all sorts of mid caliber goodness.

But later on, France had some homegrown 57-100mm guns that were pretty good. Nothing special, but enough to rival Russian CLs.

A few even had 152mm DPAA, but those would be, at best, a third of the strength of the Minotaur with generally only one or two turrets per ship. 

[dasCKD]

The USN added something that was much needed to the French ships in the 40's: bofors. Many bofors. ALL THE BOFORS. DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

 

Well, AA isn't the only thing that would make the French line interesting. The last thing I want is an overpowered line, so I would rather the French be a little like the British in that they're unique but situational rather than just being either flat improvements over the existing ship lines or worse versions of said ships.

[Deamon93]

 

The USN added something that was much needed to the French ships in the 40's: bofors. Many bofors. ALL THE BOFORS. DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

 

*herm*

 

Excuse me.

 

 

So yeah, they added all sorts of mid caliber goodness.

But later on, France had some homegrown 57-100mm guns that were pretty good. Nothing special, but enough to rival Russian CLs.

A few even had 152mm DPAA, but those would be, at best, a third of the strength of the Minotaur with generally only one or two turrets per ship. 

 

Wasn't the 57 developed with Bofors? In any case I'm sure WG will add the Bofors+Oerlikon spam to the French from tier VII/VIII(ish) up, although I hope they'll avoid that(since there will be already said spam in the US and UK lines)

[MeTaLMooSe]

Surcouf.

 

Give her better than destroyer concealment and cruiser HE dmg and RoF with her pathetic battery.

She is a unique beauty.

 

[Exocet6951]

 

Wasn't the 57 developed with Bofors? In any case I'm sure WG will add the Bofors+Oerlikon spam to the French from tier VII/VIII(ish) up, although I hope they'll avoid that(since there will be already said spam in the US and UK lines)

 

Ugh you're right, the twin 57s are bofors.

The French just have an annoying habit of changing the original gun's name in favor of a "[caliber] Model[year of entry in service]" approach.

 

 

 

 

Well, AA isn't the only thing that would make the French line interesting. The last thing I want is an overpowered line, so I would rather the French be a little like the British in that they're unique but situational rather than just being either flat improvements over the existing ship lines or worse versions of said ships.

 

It'll still just be a normal amount of bofors and oerlikons, nothing you wouldn't find normal on a British or US ship, and that with some ships still keeping the rather poor 37s.

Overall, less AA than USN CAs, and probably less mid-range AA than RN CLs since those use very late model bofors and have a crazy amount of dps per mount.

As far as being a flat improvement, cruisers still have quite a bit of toys to play with you can tweak to not make a branch overshadow another.
If anything, my current concern is that the French cruisers will out-bland USN cruisers, rather than being improvements. 

 

 

[indycar]

[edited]

[dasCKD]

If anything, my current concern is that the French cruisers will out-bland USN cruisers, rather than being improvements. 

 

That would be an unfortunate possibility, yes. The British cruisers might be extremely hard to handle, but at least they are unique and potentially very powerful. I don't know if the French cruisers really could have the same effect or will they be a waste of both out and WG's time.

[FallOutBoi]

if they are anti-bb i could imagine a line without torps but no citadel either....or we are talking about anti-dd roles but what about active dd protectors ? maybe they can block radar and/or hydro or can shoot smoke grenades to smoke up a dd in distance or can shoot  light signals to spot in a square ?

[lezantas26]

i would say go for anti-BB, currently only JPN cruisers are effective against BB. ofc the drawback is that the frenchies will have hard competition, takao can ridicule Yamatos, while myoko can brawl with most BB she meets 

 

[dasCKD]

if they are anti-bb i could imagine a line without torps but no citadel either....or we are talking about anti-dd roles but what about active dd protectors ? maybe they can block radar and/or hydro or can shoot smoke grenades to smoke up a dd in distance or can shoot  light signals to spot in a square ?

 

Radio jamming, radar jamming, and star rounds would be nice though I think that it would work better as a cruiser consumable available to several nations rather than something that should be specialized to the French. It's just my thoughts though, having a small and lightly armored but fast cruiser that supports offensive destroyer flotillas would be a very unique and nice addition to the game though I don't think that the French cruisers of all things would particularly benefit from that playstyle considering the dimension and silhouette of their ships and the handling that would follow.