Why is Midway so extremely bad ?

[lankylad11_lankylad]

not to mention that Midway has 36 more aircraft that are more survivable so it can hit tier 9 and 10 battleships a lot better and further into the match.  If you are in a 2-1-2 and the Haku is strike then you can dominate him, and make him run out of TBs

[WingedHussar_Adler]

Looking by winrate usa cvs are LAST in t8, LAST in t9, LAST in t 10.

 

They are THE worst ship for winrate in t8+battles.

 

Ijn just destroys them.

 

I found stoopid that hakuryu gets one more squad from t9 to t10 but midway is same esses but with tx planes.

 

And if played 2-1-2 you just lose strike dmg.

 

You need to play for dot dmg but eaven that is hard with 1 squad less

 

And about fighters. 2 fighters can not protect fleet. Hakuryu engages your 2 squads with own 2csquads and his 6 strike squads arw free. Yes he will lost fighter fight but will strike.

 

Reload and next strike incoming. Engage yourc2 squads and reckt with his 6.

 

While you depend on 2squads of bombers and rng.

 

No same skile ijn vs usa on tx ijn destroys.

[Cadelanne]

If he plays 1-1-3. You can not lose to his fighters so you dominate vattle. 

 

If he plays 2-1-2 than he will win fighters batle but lose strike potential. 

 

In bouth case he can not stop your 3 TB to reckt and 3 Bombers to burn. 

 

He just can not stop your strike and you have MUUUUCCCHHHHH more stike potential. 

 

Not to mention how you with ease kill dd in crosdrop while he must pray to rng jesus not to miss all 21 bombs on dd and than that if bomb hits it does more than 1k dmg. 

 

I don't know, it's what it seems, because after all in a recent game get fairly dominated by a 2/1/2 Midway (20 airplanes to 43 for him) but sunk more than he did (even if we lost).

 

Tho I have a feeling that a lot of US CV players miss what seems the point of that line to me (even if I didn't bought ranger already lol) which is getting witherer every game. IJN CVs give a fair amount of DoT but USN CVs seems very powerful for this. Torps cause flooding with almost every hit, and it's almost guaranteed 2 fires for each DB run unless there are already fires, so even if strike damage is really lower than with IJN you'll cook people anyway !

[WingedHussar_Adler]

not to mention that Midway has 36 more aircraft that are more survivable so it can hit tier 9 and 10 battleships a lot better and further into the match.  If you are in a 2-1-2 and the Haku is strike then you can dominate him, and make him run out of TBs

Lol come on mate. Do you eaven play cv? How you xan dominate his TB s? He is idiot and will not engage your fighter squads with his 2 fighter squads?  

[Cadelanne]

But then yeah if stats are showing such a large gap then it must be me. I suppose I don't play correctly vs USN and that's why I struggle. Would love to grind that line but omg so much credits required x)

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

I don't know, it's what it seems, because after all in a recent game get fairly dominated by a 2/1/2 Midway (20 airplanes to 43 for him) but sunk more than he did (even if we lost).

 

Tho I have a feeling that a lot of US CV players miss what seems the point of that line to me (even if I didn't bought ranger already lol) which is getting witherer every game. IJN CVs give a fair amount of DoT but USN CVs seems very powerful for this. Torps cause flooding with almost every hit, and it's almost guaranteed 2 fires for each DB run unless there are already fires, so even if strike damage is really lower than with IJN you'll cook people anyway !

If we look stats ijn win in all aspects. Total dmg done, winrate eaven planes killed. 

 

He has 100 planes. If he lost 40 by end of game in wich you kill half AFTER he droped you did not protect fleet. Hakuryu average dmg shows midway can not protect fleet. 

 

Also problem with dot dmg is thata you can HEAL all. While his torp hits can not be healed all. Also he will get flood with 12 torps and will get fire with 15 bombers. 

 

Midwey needs buff. I play bouth lines. Have t9 ijn and usa and i am not bias. But on ijn you dominate player of same skill. 

 

Todey i had 38 bomb hits and 50 k dmg!!!! It is less than 1k per bomb. Wtf??? Dmg saturation kills bombs. 

 

It never hapens tah you have 10 torp hits and 20 k dmg. 

[WingedHussar_Adler]

But then yeah if stats are showing such a large gap then it must be me. I suppose I don't play correctly vs USN and that's why I struggle. Would love to grind that line but omg so much credits required x)

If midway is 2-1-2 just engage his 2 squads by your fighters and you are free to strike. He can not spot you. Still minotaur canstop you :

[Cadelanne]

If midway is 2-1-2 just engage his 2 squads by your fighters and you are free to strike. He can not spot you. Still minotaur canstop you :

 

Yeah hmm that's not like if I had an infinite number of fighters.

[lankylad11_lankylad]

yes.  there are balance issues between carriers at the moment, but tier 10 is just a case of which you prefer.  Midway is very good at stacking DoT and is more consistent.  Hakuryu can do the extremes better

[Hans_the_Hawk]

 Midway has the worst winrate of all ships in the game except for 3 tier 1s. i think I've had 2 days when I had 10 loses on the trot in it, and I normally run at 60-65% in CV.

 

I just don't play it anymore, it's too depressing. Versus a half decent Haky player you have no chance really.

 

I'm sure WG are aware and hopefully something will be done

[Cadelanne]

 Midway has the worst winrate of all ships in the game except for 3 tier 1s. i think I've had 2 days when I had 10 loses on the trot in it, and I normally run at 60-65% in CV.

 

I just don't play it anymore, it's too depressing. Versus a half decent Haky player you have no chance really.

 

I'm sure WG are aware and hopefully something will be done

 

What's depressing is having the same number of fighter squad with -2 fighter / squad. Must have something like 70% WR vs other Hakuryus and vs Midway I can't do crap. I'm just getting locked down so hard it's not even funny. I don't even play much Hak anymore only because there are chances that I may face a Midway.

[Tomasberkut]

Played a couple more matches. 

 

2-1-2 Midway feels very powerfull. Its very different from the Haku. The Haku is very dominant at the begening of the match and middle game. The key to victory is for the team to stick together and wither down the enemy cv's planes. 2 good strikes on the TB's are enough to cripple it. Once this happens its steamrolling to victory. 

 

Since 060 I find AA stronger than before, ever since the respec the Midway with its vast hangars feels extremely powerfull mid to late battle. Its just that the planes never end  

[LongJohn_]

This is intresting. Read few other T10 CV threads as well. 

 

I am at around 200k xp at my Essex so Midway is coming up soon. I've been pretty decent with Essex so far and quite like its gameplay. But should I stick with it or should I try the T10?

 

I've read a lot of stuff about Midways performance at T10 and its been pretty depressing stuff to read. Is it because of opposition aka Hakyrio? Or is it about players? Since T10 should have the best out there... Or is it something else?

 

I have to admit I time to time meet very poor level players at T9 CVs. Really. Point and click, no strafing, no dodging to my strafes, all planes in one easy-to-strafe cluster, auto-drops... very poor stats. How the heck these players ever get to T9? Headbanging and helluva lot of games?

[pra3y]

11 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

I've read a lot of stuff about Midways performance at T10 and its been pretty depressing stuff to read. Is it because of opposition aka Hakyrio? Or is it about players? Since T10 should have the best out there... Or is it something else?

 

I think it's mostly the players and partially on the line's load out. There is a slight difference in how USN and IJN CVs should be played. With USN you get larger squadrons with more health. Take the USN fighter squadron for example. Overall you have more ammo and more health than an IJN one. In most 1v1 click fights you should win. If say you only have 1 USN fighter squad up against 2 IJN ones, you should use strafe to escape first and then act accordingly depending on how the IJN CV reacts. You can do that more readily compared to an IJN player because you have 7 planes (with AS) compared to the IJN's 5 so you lose out lesser compared to them. I think people have a misconception that the Taiho and Hakuryu's 3 TB squadron are unstoppable and too strong when they're not. While there is no doubt torpedoes do more consistent damage compared to bombs, its actually harder to stop USN DBS when they're stacked together as opposed to stacked IJN TBs since overall those DBs have more health and more planes. Then you have to consider the fact that those DBs will actually destroy AA mounts on the ships that they hit. So while playing IJN you would usually torp and then db a target after they damage control, one way to get around the weakness of having just 1 TB squad as a USN CV player is to go in with DBs first to take out as many AA as you can and then do a torp run.

 

The problem is people just see oh IJN has 3 torp bombers and therefore are better than USN which has only 1. Add on to the fact that IJN loadouts come off as more balanced no matter the type (at tier 9 and 10) while the USN's loadout are more hamstrung IJN comes off as the better choice. I don't really think looking at overall stats of the USN CV line is appropriate seeing that people either focus on AS or Strike or don't know how to play it to its strength. Given the benefits IJN CVs have, for example, multiple squadrons, overall better loadout and more tbs, they're more "noob friendly" and its easier for them to win games and do more damage. Compared to USN which are stuck with AS, Strike and balanced/stock, you can only play a certain role in AS and strike while for balanced its pretty difficult, especially if up against an experienced CV player. That's why the overall stats for USN CVs are bad. Because people don't know how to use them..

[WingedHussar_Adler]

On 10/30/2017 at 10:13 AM, pra3y said:

 

That's why the overall stats for USN CVs are bad. Because people don't know how to use them..

Stats are bad because if two captain has same skill Haku eats alive Midway....Midway can work....if captain in Midwey is better....but than any (eaven most ussles ships ones) can win against poor captain in superior ship.

[pra3y]

8 hours ago, 15JG52Adler said:

Stats are bad because if two captain has same skill Haku eats alive Midway....Midway can work....if captain in Midwey is better....but than any (eaven most ussles ships ones) can win against poor captain in superior ship.

 

I meant the USN CV line in general, not just between Haku and Midway. The reason why IJN stats would come off better is because they have a truly balanced squadrons. So even if a potato plays it, they would do reasonably well in all statistical area. However, when you throw that same potato into playing the USN line, he's stuck in a quandary. The stock loadout, while usually ok for experienced CV players, would appear lackluster to them as their planes would either keep on getting shot down or they don't do enough damage. So they either go for AS or strike. Experienced CV players can make both sets work as well in an all rounded manner. Can't remember the name but I know one of the CV forum posters who favors AS USN CVs and still do pretty decent damage with just the DBs. But for potatoes, if they play AS they only know how to try and go after enemy planes and do some damage here and there. Same for strike, they only try to go after ships and try to do damage. That why I keep on saying USN CVs are hard mode while IJN CVs are easy mode. In order to perform decently in a USN CV, you need to have some knowledge and experience playing CVs and then from there, make use of whatever loadout you choose to help the team win. But potatoes don't take that all that into consideration. That's why you see while certain CV players can perform decently in USN CVs regardless of the loadout they pick, the overall stats of the USN CVs are pulled down by potatoes who have no idea how to use the various loadouts effectively. Why do you think the general stats of Bogue has more planes shot down but very little damage done? Because more people play AS rather than strike or stock. But why do my Bogue stats show a balance in planes shot down and damage done? Because I know how to use the stock loadout plus strafe and manual drop well (before the nerf). 

[LongJohn_]

Very close to breaking up Midway. So the 21M credit question: Is it worth it? What to expect after Essex?

 

I've done decent results with Essex and quite like it. Should I just stay with it? 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, LongJohn_ said:

I've done decent results with Essex and quite like it. Should I just stay with it? 

 

Meh, if you enjoy playing Essex you'll probably enjoy playing Midway as well.

 

Heck, if it weren't for the incredibly bad service times and ridiculously long strafe pathing I think Midway would actually fare fairly okay against Haku.

[veslingr]

2 hours ago, LongJohn_ said:

Very close to breaking up Midway. So the 21M credit question: Is it worth it? What to expect after Essex?

 

I've done decent results with Essex and quite like it. Should I just stay with it? 

Midway in 2-3 months will get 2-2-2 and AP bombs....he probably will be better than now....so i would wait for change if you do not have great desire to play it.....if you do....and have money...buy it.....still any competent Haku will demolish you....

[LongJohn_]

49 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Meh, if you enjoy playing Essex you'll probably enjoy playing Midway as well.

 

Heck, if it weren't for the incredibly bad service times and ridiculously long strafe pathing I think Midway would actually fare fairly okay against Haku.

 

Is the servicing time actually that long? How does it take for strike Midway 1-1-3 loadout to get all squads landed, serviced and back in the air? How about same situation with Haku? 

 

I just started thinking this. Of cource single squad takes longer time but there is also only 4 attackplane squads vs 6 of Haku. 

[LongJohn_]

26 minutes ago, veslingr said:

Midway in 2-3 months will get 2-2-2 and AP bombs....he probably will be better than now....so i would wait for change if you do not have great desire to play it.....if you do....and have money...buy it.....still any competent Haku will demolish you....

 

Just out of curiosity: Is this your alter account or are your wows games really that 199? Impressive stats by all means but you do have 1st hand experience with T10 CVs?

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, LongJohn_ said:

Of cource single squad takes longer time but there is also only 4 attackplane squads vs 6 of Haku.

 

Overall I'd say recovery + launch speed is just a tad faster for IJN if we're talking about full strikes.

However IJN CVs do not need to launch full strikes in order to cause significant damage. This, in combination with shorter service times, means you can stagger your launch and recovery order as you desire, making you far more flexible.

It also means IJN CVs have (ironically) better air control as their fighters go "off cooldown" much faster. They also have much better first strike ability against any target that is foolish enough to go out on their own at the beginning of a game with no chance of a USN CV to deny it if his fighters are in the wrong location or he chose to launch bombers first. On the other hand a USN strike will never arrive over an enemy before IJN fighters do even if the IJN CV has chosen to launch his TBs before getting his fighters airborne.

 

It's not necessarily a matter of raw numbers but of a massive flexibility advantage.

[veslingr]

8 minutes ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Just out of curiosity: Is this your alter account or are your wows games really that 199? Impressive stats by all means but you do have 1st hand experience with T10 CVs?

Hi. Yes i have bouth t10 cvs. 

 

As many noobs i just rushed thrue tiers and did not learn a thing and my stats till t8 on other account are horrible. Some cvs are below 50% so I created account just to train CVS from start. 

 

Still on higher tiers I got allitle better and can say that difference between USA and ijn line pass t7 is hughe in IJN advantage. 

 

Ijn just have perfect tool for everything. In my opinion IJN should lose 1 fighter throu all tiers. It is just stoopid that ijn dominates in air, strike and scouting against USA in strike deck from t8. It is just stoopid that balanced is best deck for USA except t9 and y 8 where t8 is worst ship ever. 

[veslingr]

16 minutes ago, LongJohn_ said:

 

Is the servicing time actually that long? How does it take for strike Midway 1-1-3 loadout to get all squads landed, serviced and back in the air? How about same situation with Haku? 

 

I just started thinking this. Of cource single squad takes longer time but there is also only 4 attackplane squads vs 6 of Haku. 

Reload is determined regards number of planes per squad and not squad number. So 12 planes in 3 squads loads faster than 7 planes in 1 squad. 

[LongJohn_]

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Overall I'd say recovery + launch speed is just a tad faster for IJN if we're talking about full strikes.

However IJN CVs do not need to launch full strikes in order to cause significant damage. This, in combination with shorter service times, means you can stagger your launch and recovery order as you desire, making you far more flexible.

It also means IJN CVs have (ironically) better air control as their fighters go "off cooldown" much faster. They also have much better first strike ability against any target that is foolish enough to go out on their own at the beginning of a game with no chance of a USN CV to deny it if his fighters are in the wrong location or he chose to launch bombers first. On the other hand a USN strike will never arrive over an enemy before IJN fighters do even if the IJN CV has chosen to launch his TBs before getting his fighters airborne.

 

It's not necessarily a matter of raw numbers but of a massive flexibility advantage.

 

I know the flexibility difference but imho that comes an issue mid and late game when AA is weakened and you can attack targets using just a squad or two. At start I've piled up my squad even with module upgraded USN squads. Sending them one by one is just feeding planes. 2+2 attack formation has worked for me quite well (1-1-3 strike Essex).