[FIFO] ilhilh [FIFO] Beta Tester 2,451 posts 7,514 battles Report post #26 Posted January 12, 2017 The problem I have with AGS is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the KM BB line, to make the grind up to the Bismarck that much easier. Because we don't have enough Bismarck in the game yet, right? The Shiney Horse and Tirpitz are both better at it. I had 1 x 15 pt captain in my Tirpitz when the KM BBs arrived and trained a further 15 pt and 1 16 point captain before I even unlocked the Bismarck. My original plan was to keep the 8, 9 and 10 KM BBs but now I will only keep 8+10 and the other captain will transfer to the KM DDs if I bother with them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MercFHire Players 158 posts 2,771 battles Report post #27 Posted January 12, 2017 The problem I have with AGS is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the KM BB line, to make the grind up to the Bismarck that much easier. Because we don't have enough Bismarck in the game yet, right? The Scharnhorst and Tirpitz would fit the role much better, not only due to more xp earned in higher tier battles but a lot of the skills that would be useful for a BB would not give you any advantages on the AGS. I'm using her to train my Hipper captain though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
albinbino Players 662 posts 11,080 battles Report post #28 Posted January 12, 2017 We are talking about T6 here. Even I, when foolishly rushing up the tiers to get beloved Nagato, had at least some little understanding at T6. And you always want to watch your sides as a cruiser. You only watch out for BBs and Graf Spee? Well, take some 9x 180mm Stalinium or 6x 203mm or 9x 150mm German AP shells to your side. Or maybe you like some 130mm Stalinium or 152mm super-heavy USN AP shells instead Practice has showed me different situations, but those that repeat its self are that very often i am able to make devastating hits with AGS on unsuspecting cruisers. I do consider my self experienced player, my main game is high tiers battle, actually i hate lower tier battles. But AGS is premium ship, that makes credits. People will not give up from playing it so soon or easy, since it is money maker and great captain trainer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iron_Gekko Beta Tester 497 posts 8,762 battles Report post #29 Posted January 12, 2017 At the time when so many players go for BBs and so little for cruisers,introduction of such cruiser like Graf Spee that has lots of BB specifications was mistake. Now remaining cruiser players who grind their ships have another threat to worry about, beside already existing BBs, and that is very powerful shells of Graf Spee. Graf Spee is not just another cruiser ship. Experienced players who play Graf Spee will quickly realize that their strong point is to load AP, and with low speed reload they will learn that their best targets are other cruisers.I would argue that Graf Spee is more dangerous against cruisers than BBs, because BBs players at such lower tier still did not gain their best aiming skills, and some dont understand citadel target. While Graf Spee players will have patience and knowledge to wait for perfect cruiser target, this ship can delete cruiser, same as BBs. I think it was mistake to give out Graf Spee ship for free so massively. Massive presence of Graf Spee adds additional tremendous challenge to regular cruiser players. But it is not too late, i recommend WG to take back these ships from players, expect from those who paid for it. And to reserve this ship only for those that are ready to buy it. Why? Its soo much munchies for my Scharnhorst, loving it! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MercFHire Players 158 posts 2,771 battles Report post #30 Posted January 12, 2017 Well in this game soon you will realize you will not do well against destroyers. So at the start of battle you will load your guns and wait for first cruisers to appear on map so shoot them. Slow reloading guns must be used most productive way. This is one of my points, AGS is not just another cruiser. I haven't had any problems with DD's. I've hit them with the AP and done considerable damage and if they are silly enough to get closer they also risk getting torped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
albinbino Players 662 posts 11,080 battles Report post #31 Posted January 12, 2017 Taking a ship back from players, after they have won it by completing in-game missions? OP, are you serious? Because, seriously, that would be a very bad idea. Aside from being unethical, and also leaving aside the legal ramifications, the ensuing avalanche of badwill in the online gaming community would be on a biblical scale. But they could replace it with some ship that actually is played and behaved like cruiser, not to add another BB disguised as cruiser to already populated BB battle, for free. And hey, there is also option to nerf it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,083 posts 4,481 battles Report post #32 Posted January 12, 2017 Is my history incorrect in thinking the AGS was designed to out gun other cruisers? She was designed to outrun things she couldn't out gun, and out gun things she couldn't out run? As far as I know, you are entirely correct. And it sort of worked as well, since she wasn't outgunned by those three cruisers that caught up with her at the River Plate. The reason why Captain Langsdorff decided to scuttle the Graf Spee rather than try to break out - which he might very well have succeeded in doing - was that he believed the (false) radio reports from the Royal Navy, according to which heavy reinforcements were already in place. Langsdorff believed he was facing a battle against hopeless odds, and rather than sacrificing the lives of his crew, he scuttled his ship. This was an act of outstanding moral courage, in my opinion - if not in the opinion of the government in Berlin at the time. For the British, this was a victory of Naval Intelligence rather than the Naval Forces. The philosophy behind the construction of this "pocket battleship" doesn't quite work out the same in the game, since the Kriegsmarine didn't have to calculate with the possibility of the Graf Spee encountering ships from one or two tiers higher than herself. If she had encountered the similarly tiered Dunkerque - the ship that was designed specifically to fight her - it would probably have gone very badly for the Graf Spee. All in all, I feel that WG have made a good job representing these two ships in the game! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Comodoro_Allande Players 2,240 posts 8,469 battles Report post #33 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) The problem I have with AGS is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the KM BB line, to make the grind up to the Bismarck that much easier. The problem I have with Tirpitz is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the KM BB line, to make the grind up to the Bismarck that much easier. The problem I have with Atago is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the IJN CA line, to make the grind up to the Zao that much easier. The problem I have with Leningrad is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the Soviet DD line, to make the grind up to the Kebab that much easier. The problem I have with Belfast is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the UK CL line, to make the grind up to the Minotaur that much easier. The problem I have with Kutuzov is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the Soviet CL/CA line, to make the grind up to the Moskva that much easier. You see??? Nonsense complain Edited January 12, 2017 by Comodoro_Allande Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
albinbino Players 662 posts 11,080 battles Report post #34 Posted January 12, 2017 I haven't had any problems with DD's. I've hit them with the AP and done considerable damage and if they are silly enough to get closer they also risk getting torped. Sure in later stage of the battle, when fewer other targets and when they tend to come close. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HOME] RobS80 [HOME] Weekend Tester 969 posts 10,664 battles Report post #35 Posted January 12, 2017 And hey, there is also option to nerf it. Its a premium, so not an option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SinkTheOthersNotMe Players 440 posts 5,824 battles Report post #36 Posted January 12, 2017 Love my graf spee -> but almost all the ones I encounter are steered by......noobs/tomatoes -> means they turn into citadel city.....and sink. Especially hilarious to encounter a graf spee when I am steering my pensacola or god forbids my NO -> graf spee evaporates. Budyo - nurnberg or any other of my tier 6 cruisers has no trouble deleting most graf spee but I don't meet that many. Now if someone wants to cry -> cry about tomatoes teams that seem to be on the rise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[72] mikelight1805 [72] Beta Tester 453 posts 14,842 battles Report post #37 Posted January 12, 2017 Well in this game soon you will realize you will not do well against destroyers. So at the start of battle you will load your guns and wait for first cruisers to appear on map so shoot them. Slow reloading guns must be used most productive way. This is one of my points, AGS is not just another cruiser. An AGS will not do well against anything that is fast moving and close. It was designed to counter cruisers, which it is good at with a decent alpha potential. unfortunately she has to expose a lot of broadside to get all 6 11" guns to bear, and the rate of fire isn't anything to get excited about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScratxNeko Players 453 posts Report post #38 Posted January 12, 2017 But they could replace it with some ship that actually is played and behaved like cruiser, not to add another BB disguised as cruiser to already populated BB battle, for free. And hey, there is also option to nerf it. Nah, the fully justified epic shitstorm that would ensue makes it completely not worth it to even consider. If WG was bothered by the possibility of handing out free AGS they would have come up with something entirely different for this holiday period. That said, the AGS does not play like a battleship. Don't try to pretend it does, it cannot tank like a battleship. The armor is still cruiser grade. It's a strange mutant baby between a cruiser and a scharnhorst, really. A fun one if you can make the ship work for you. It's also got severe weaknesses no other cruiser has, since it's very slow for a cruiser... it effectively cannot stay away from higher tier battleships if they decide to eat the AGS. And nevermind other cruisers. It is literally, AFAIK, the slowest cruiser in tier 6. And possibly also tier 5. And definitely tier 7+. Very easy to be caught out of position in it. The guns and awesome torpedo angles are essentially the only things it has that make it worth taking out of port. The heal is a nice addition to make it more survivable given how it can't dictate who it wants to engage. As for nerfing it... heh... if WG won't nerf the Nikolai and prefers to simply never sell it again, you think they're going to nerf the AGS?... Nah, they aren't going to directly nerf any premium. Indirectly, they might. It's happened in the past. But directly?... I don't see it happening. Besides, the AGS isn't even remotely OP. I can cite you half a dozen premium ships on sale right now that are more powerful for their tier than the AGS... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akula971 Beta Tester 1,059 posts 14,810 battles Report post #39 Posted January 12, 2017 The numbers will decrease in the future when the potatoes get tired of it, and need a port slot. If you have a AGS and want to find out if the enemy AGS is a potato or not, then check the ship comparison in the loading screen, most will not have fitted the rudder shift option or have a captain with the right skills if any. Just check manoeuvrability, and AA. The potato barge is worse. For me its a keeper. I like it! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,083 posts 4,481 battles Report post #40 Posted January 12, 2017 An AGS will not do well against anything that is fast moving and close. It was designed to counter cruisers, which it is good at with a decent alpha potential. unfortunately she has to expose a lot of broadside to get all 6 11" guns to bear, and the rate of fire isn't anything to get excited about. Fortunately, she doesn't need to expose so very much broadside at all to launch 4+4 swift and heavy-hitting torpedoes at an enemy ship. Either shoot and take cover, or close in and destroy - the Graf Spee is not a ship for protracted long-range gunnery duels! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moomoo2 Players 384 posts 12,670 battles Report post #41 Posted January 12, 2017 Remove AGS Remove Dunkerque Remove scharnhorst Remove everything. Just have a couple of kayaks with catapults. AGS is a slow cruiser with reasonable guns. Big whoop. It burns like a bonfire, it has a citadel the size of the ship and it gets smooshed by any BB. Get over it. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #42 Posted January 12, 2017 The Scharnhorst and Tirpitz would fit the role much better True, but those cost real world money and not every player is willing to spend €50 on a in-game model. not only due to more xp earned in higher tier battles but a lot of the skills that would be useful for a BB would not give you any advantages on the AGS. They're skills are close enough, and with dragon flags etc the re-training time should be pretty minimal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Comodoro_Allande Players 2,240 posts 8,469 battles Report post #43 Posted January 12, 2017 Remove AGS Remove Dunkerque Remove scharnhorst Remove everything. Just have a couple of kayaks with catapults. New IJN BB vs a couple of cruisers and destroyers 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Corvi Beta Tester, In AlfaTesters 1,147 posts 16,279 battles Report post #44 Posted January 12, 2017 I found Spee to be a pretty bad ship imo that gets trashed by even Tier 5 cruisers spamming HE at it .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #45 Posted January 12, 2017 The problem I have with Tirpitz is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the KM BB line, to make the grind up to the Bismarck that much easier. The problem I have with Atago is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the IJN CA line, to make the grind up to the Zao that much easier. The problem I have with Leningrad is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the Soviet DD line, to make the grind up to the Kebab that much easier. The problem I have with Belfast is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the UK CL line, to make the grind up to the Minotaur that much easier. The problem I have with Kutuzov is it's a great captain trainer/re-trainer for the Soviet CL/CA line, to make the grind up to the Moskva that much easier. You see??? Nonsense complain I don't have a problem with premiums in general, but making sure that everyone has one that's well suited to training for the most heavily played line in the game seems to me to be a somewhat strange decision, surely something from one of the other nations would've made more sense.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moomoo2 Players 384 posts 12,670 battles Report post #46 Posted January 12, 2017 New IJN BB vs a couple of cruisers and destroyers Arrows are OP lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ryuuteimaru Players 503 posts 4,703 battles Report post #47 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I found Spee to be a pretty bad ship imo that gets trashed by even Tier 5 cruisers spamming HE at it .. Everything trashes it. DD=Can avoid your fire while either burning you down or torping you Cruisers=Out DPS you BB=Deletes you like any other Cruisers CV=Love you because of the low value AA poor ruddershift. It has most of the weaknesses of both Cruisers and battleships yet gains very little in return. Edited January 12, 2017 by Ryuuteimaru 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vanhal Alpha Tester 5,609 posts 5,569 battles Report post #48 Posted January 12, 2017 Remove everything. Just have a couple of kayaks with catapults. Gaijin is doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[LEWD] CLyDeThaMonKeY [LEWD] Beta Tester 436 posts 26,847 battles Report post #49 Posted January 12, 2017 Everything trashes it. DD=Can avoid your fire while either burning you down or torping you Cruisers=Out DPS you BB=Deletes you like any other Cruisers CV=Love you because of the low value AA poor ruddershift. It has most of the weaknesses of both Cruisers and battleships yet gains very little in return. THANK YOU! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auzor_S Players 138 posts 9,010 battles Report post #50 Posted January 12, 2017 thought experiment, in a T6 game, which would you rather see on enemy team: A (non-stock) Fuso? Or a Graf Spee? How about a T6 CV? a Bayern? A Molotov. Oh right.. that thing exists, and is tier6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
