Implementation of RDF

[Akula971]

One has to ask why introduce it? Who does it benefit? Who loses out? What does it do to game play? Why does Wargaming seem to insist on it? Will they listen to the community?

Who does it benefit? Ships that can hunt destroyers or ships that are easily taken out by hidden destroyers. So that is US, German and Soviet DDS, and lots of cruisers, even perhaps Royal Navy cruisers. Battleships can now angle against stealthy attack as they will know a DD is "over there"

Who loses out? Any ship that has a skilful commander who knows the value of flanking and concealment. Primarily IJN destroyers.

What does it do to game play?  IJN DDs will ensure they have ships in close proximity to hide their approach, they will have to stay close to the fleet. However when pushing for a cap, if the enemy can see your fleet approaching, but detection says that there is another ship on his flank, he'd be less likely to push. Battleships and cruisers, mid game would not be so easily caught out. It also discourages a lot of very experienced IJN DD players from playing, as the line that benefits most from concealment will be compromised. Wargaming don't want you taking out your super stealthy killers all the time, because you are not spending money on progressing down other lines. So they change the IJN lines and nerf their torpedoes. The torpedo strike from nowhere is the equivalent to the one shot from Artillery in WoT, you don't know its coming, and you don't know from where. It upsets the potatoes, which equals lost business.

Why does Wargaming seem to insist on it?  It will make for more brawling in groups, quicker games. Most games last the full time, not good for business. It also puts a skill within range of the less able player who will now have a crutch to help them level the playing field.

Will they listen to the community? The Russian one perhaps, but EU? Nah, just good for fat wallets.

In short Wargaming Saint Petersburg have produced a fine game, a game that is not entirely dependant upon tier progression, as a lower tier ship can have more influence on the games outcome than a low tier tank in WoT ever could. However it depends upon a player base that has some skill, some brain power, and that player base is not big enough to satisfy their greed, so it will be dumbed down, again and again until it suffers the same fate as WoWP. Introducing the German BB line as it is was the first step. An easy to play line that a turnip could do OK in. 

We had a a game that combined four aspects, planning, team work, and predictive shooting skill (actually hitting the target). A good mix of a strategy game and a shooter, much slower paced than WoT. However I fear that it will become just another shooter.

[mtm78]

Will they listen to the community? The Russian one perhaps, but EU? Nah, just good for fat wallets.

 

Good thing then that even RU forum seemed to be more against it then for it ( though far less opposition then here, about 30% who says it's fine or something iirc ). 

[Venatacia]

I don't get why WG is insisting in the introduction of this skill. I have no memory of someone proposing it, and from what i see on streams, read on the forums/reddit, almost everyone wants it gone (yes, we have those special snow-flakes who say it is fine lul), but it does worry me that even though the one who give the feedback, even the best of the best players want it gone, the really really want it in. 

 

Who will it benefit really? Potatoes? Potatoes can't even aim right, how will they use the information delivered to them by this skill? Good players? Good players do not need such a thing, they are good without it. 

 

It will create a mess among good players and they should know that not every good player is an all-lines player, there are specialized players for BB's, DD's and so on. 

 

So does WG really helping enyone with this? I do not think so. I really hope the ones who are on the PT server are going to give their feedback, not just farm for the premium day and make this "thing" go away. 

 

They would be better off concentrating on imporving missions, match-making and other features, like the unresponsive  UI than this sh*t.

 

​Well, normally when you have to ask why WG did something; it can be answered by this symbol £.

 

You say good players don't need it but I find all good players will use every advantage available to them. Watched a CC on you tube the other day ( someone who clearly has skill ) and he found it very useful as it gave the position of a DD away so he had his guns ready and waiting where his guns until the symbol popped up were facing in another direction. Bad players will never get to that skill more than likely anyway and if they did, well I doubt it will help them much. I see this skill for the very good players not the bad ones.

 

I agree with you though and said the same thing myself, why on earth is WG soo hell bent on bring a skill in that the player base doesn't want. Someone aint listening at WG. Anyway my premium ran out and will stay that way.

[TheCinC]

Some people argue that RPF will not be so damaging to the game, because many players will probably choose other skills instead of it. Leaving aside the inherent fallacy of basing an evaluation on an unknown factor - namely, that we do not know in advance which skills will be most popular - I do not consider this to be a valid argument.

It might be relevant, if other skills had been added, that by themselves created an unbalance that would be fixed by also adding RPF. This is not the case.

 

Agreed.

I've also argued that there is a distinct advantage in having RPF and that getting it is easy.

Everyone who was a 15 point captain will be able to get 2 tier IV skills immediately.

Anyone with a 19 point captain will be able to get 3 and have one point extra.

Plus, they make it easier to level captains in the same update.

So the odds of people NOT spending four points on a skill that gives you greatly enhanced awareness of your tactical situation, are next to nothing.

For full review, see my sig.

 

Just filed my 0.6.0 survey.

Made it very clear how I feel about RPF.

Octavian, on reddit, said they haven't decided on RPF yet, so let's hope that feedback makes them change their minds.

If you have participated in PTS, fill in the survey.

[Hans_the_Hawk]

Hi,

 

RDF has to go.
Casual DD captains will now play DD less, as that occasional fun game when you sneak up on a carrier or BB will be gone.
Dedicated DD captains will either switch class, or, leave the game completely.

RDF is designed for the whining BB players who dont believe a BB should be able to be taken out by 1 DD. a fair point in real life , but this isnt real life.
If it was a Graf Spee would not be equal to 1 Leander , but far superior (Battle of River Plate)
And I'm pretty sure 1 Gearing wasnt  a Match for the Yamato,  but it is a game and RDF is GAME BREAKING.

WG do NOT bring in this skill PLEASE, over 90% of your population DO NOT WANT IT

 

P.S.  If you are in a platoon on TS with your friends, you could triangulate your RPF to know EXACTLY where the enemy is. STUPID.

 

 

 

[eliastion]

Let me throw in my own two cents. I personally don't like the skill too much - for reasons repeated here ad nauseam. HOWEVER - I don't believe it will be nearly as disruptive to the game as some people prophesize. Basically... it's expensive. Very. Most people will look at it and then think... "well, yeah, I'd like to have it, but I hate being burned to death more than being attacked by unseen enemies I can't guess where are hiding" and go with fire prevention. Or something along these lines. So - while the effects of the skill seem detrimental to the gameplay, especially DD gameplay, I don't believe I'll see people using this skill all that often. Manual AA, manual secondaries, fire prevention, BFT and AFT - there are plenty pretty expensive skills to take AND even fully leveled captain has just 19 skillpoints. And even at high tiers 19 skillpoint captains will hardly be the norm.

I believe the skill will see some use but really? it will even be used by anyone every other game or so - and then the situations where it actually becomes important will be rarer still since it requires a DD that would otherwise try to do something (had the skill not been in place.

 

The skill might be very bad for Rankeds and absolutely catastrophic for Team battles but as far as Randoms are concerned, I do believe that the effects of the skill will be severely limited by its obscurity. The extra piece of information just doesn't seem all that appealing when instead you can just grab direct bonuses to things you use all the time. The one ship class that would be taking this universally while hitting 14 points (second t4 skill) would've been carriers. And yes, it would've been pretty broken for them even in Randoms. But they did put in the restriction that the skill just isn't CV-compatible at all. So... yeah. I don't really fear for Randoms. Facing a competent CV player might prove to be both more common and more frustrating for my DDs than facing someone with RDF who will foil my plans with it.

 

PS:

The name of the skill is pretty strange, really, seeing how Radio Direction Finding much better describes what the skill does in-game: you learn the direction, not the position of the enemy.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

 

Casual DD captains will now play DD less, as that occasional fun game when you sneak up on a carrier or BB will be gone.
Dedicated DD captains will either switch class, or, leave the game completely.

 

I won't do either.

I will probably play even more DDs than usual and try to sink more BBs than I do now. So BaBBies can whine harder.

[Nethraniel]

 

I won't do either.

I will probably play even more DDs than usual and try to sink more BBs than I do now. So BaBBies can whine harder.

 

If RPF goes live, I will play IJN stealth torpedo DDs exclusively for a couple of weeks... just for the damn sake of it.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

 

If RPF goes live, I will play IJN stealth torpedo DDs exclusively for a couple of weeks... just for the damn sake of it.

 

IJNs and my Polish Blitz.

Eat them Eels, BaBBies, until you're stuffed to the rim!

[Nethraniel]

Polish Blitz.

Yes, she is a beauty. However, she can also go into lots of gunfights with 7 barrels.

[mtm78]

Blys, Leningrad and ofc Gremmy... Probably Akizuki for the lulz and Shiratsuyu for the 16 torps

 

But, I will dread any game where I see enemy Fletchers ( Gearings.. well unless I'm in Akizuki I can just run away ).... 

 

But guy's come on, RDF won't go live, they can't ignore this amount of negative feedback, they just can't ( unless they want to show how much they want to spoil us even more ). 

[Dominico]

Doesnt bother me but then im one to wait, play the game and form my own opinion.

 

Personally i think it will not have a huge impact and a lot of people panicking have tornado mentality of the world will end.

 

You will still be able to sneak. You will still be able to flank around enemies.

 

Some peoples argument is "good players wont use it cause they know where enemies might be" (ok so it has no effect there) "bad players wont be able to take advantage of it because they are (insert elitist insult)" so again its not going to impact...

 

What situation is this going to cause problems. Initial fleet meeting. The arrow points at force H. Force H has a destroyer screening. Arrow points towars force H they still dont know there is a dd there. They dont know where he is. The destroyer can see the enemy ships so the issue is...?

 

Situation 2 mr destroyer thinks the way to help his team most isnt scouting and harassing enemies but it is sailing round the edge of the map finding that elusive carrier. Anyone with the skill will have the arrow pointing at other NEARER ships not said wandering destroyer. Only if some guy has sat near the carrier all match and sees a pointer aiming at said dd. And again maybe there are enemies behind the sneaky dd so the guy mistakes these as the skills target

So yeah i prefer not to panic but i usually adapt to things amd learn and also wait to see before panicking.

 

But then again maybe im wrong in which case RUN FOR THE HILLS!

[mtm78]

Why you not seeing it on PTS then

 

Though I will up front admit it is almost impossible to judge meta on live server from pts games, it will show you what it can do in your own hands. And so far I seen its pretty game breaking for anyone/anything which is trying to use concealment, if you take the skill. And yes, it has a high price, there are other builds for almost all ships which are also very strong. But balancing a skill around not everyone having it, is like saying Imperator Nikolai I or Gremyashchy or Kamikaze ( R ) / Fijin are balanced because not everyone has one. 

[Spellfire40]

 

If RPF goes live, I will play IJN stealth torpedo DDs exclusively for a couple of weeks... just for the damn sake of it.

 

​shima week with 20 km Torps Shooting from 12km plus ?

[Akula971]

The will implement it, your protests will be ignored because this idea is some developers baby, and they will say that the PTS was not really representative, and more data is needed.

 

I've been playing since CBT, and most of my captains are 15-18 skill points. Will I take this skill? YES and I'll try to abuse it so much. On a ship that is already considered slightly OP such as the Gremy or Kamikaze, It will help me avoid those ships that interfere with my planned attacks, and find those I want to kill. On my lower tier battleships it will enable me to turn away from and avoid any stealthed ship if I so desire. My cruiser captains are frothing at the mouth at anticipation of this "skill"

 

Most good players know how to make effective use of the map, look at the team line up before the match starts, and assess the competition. It will be a skill amplifier in so much as it will confirm your thoughts on suspected ships positions. It will also allow a divide to open in the Mid to lower tiers, as there will be those that do not have it, and those more skilled players that do. A seal clubbers aid. It will not make play for beginners easier, quite the reverse.

 

Any captain with the required skill points would be foolish not to take it. We've all been in end game situations not knowing where the enemy DD is, and how to avoid his torpedoes, now we will know by looking at the map, whether we are spotted or not, and by the "magic eye" exactly where he is.

 

A stupid "skill" that at one stroke changes the game mechanics for the worse. What is unforeseen and unknown at this point is how it will effect particular ships, as we've seen how their tinkering fucked up premiums like the Yubari and Simms, the game changed, they didn't. Dirty underhand business practices.

[Spellfire40]

The will implement it, your protests will be ignored because this idea is some developers baby, and they will say that the PTS was not really representative, and more data is needed.

 

I've been playing since CBT, and most of my captains are 15-18 skill points. Will I take this skill? YES and I'll try to abuse it so much. On a ship that is already considered slightly OP such as the Gremy or Kamikaze, It will help me avoid those ships that interfere with my planned attacks, and find those I want to kill. On my lower tier battleships it will enable me to turn away from and avoid any stealthed ship if I so desire. My cruiser captains are frothing at the mouth at anticipation of this "skill"

 

Most good players know how to make effective use of the map, look at the team line up before the match starts, and assess the competition. It will be a skill amplifier in so much as it will confirm your thoughts on suspected ships positions. It will also allow a divide to open in the Mid to lower tiers, as there will be those that do not have it, and those more skilled players that do. A seal clubbers aid. It will not make play for beginners easier, quite the reverse.

 

Any captain with the required skill points would be foolish not to take it. We've all been in end game situations not knowing where the enemy DD is, and how to avoid his torpedoes, now we will know by looking at the map, whether we are spotted or not, and by the "magic eye" exactly where he is.

 

A stupid "skill" that at one stroke changes the game mechanics for the worse. What is unforeseen and unknown at this point is how it will effect particular ships, as we've seen how their tinkering fucked up premiums like the Yubari and Simms, the game changed, they didn't. Dirty underhand business practices.

 

​post 90 vid tell me how he would even have the slightest clue,There were 0 indication that there were a DD there. Thats  ​NO skill skill amplyfier ist simply und uperly BROKEN!!!​ This has 0 to do with skill ist exactly the oposite of skill it require Basic map sense and aims at even more People turning their brain of instead of ​learning ​ the game In the had of someone competent ist too powerfull even as a T6 skill in the had of a bad Player its encorage them even less to learn the game.

 

edit:and what the comity at large dont understand why is there a NEED for such a crap Even DD Player could understand that maplookdown with fast 20km torps was bad for the game even when turning that off without compensating afected ships was uper BS in its own right but this? I really have trobble why they wasted time on such crap instead focusing on CVs to get them back into the game......

[The_Great_SCH]

Thins will just encourage camping more. Noone will have the balls to be the first to move out like until now. Especially casual DD players will not move out for the cap anymore, the rant will be bigger, even now everyone is raging about russian DD's not going first into capzones, like they could do anything. 

 

WG's excuse that we need this skill "to make DD hunting more efficient" just doesn't cut it for me. We have too many reckless DD players already, DD's are the first to die in the games mostly, so why make their lives even harder? It's not like DD's is the most OP ship-class in the game. 

 

I bet you that the useless players will die even with this skill, and the good players will think of tactics to play even with this skill. 

 

I am mostly a DD player, and just because a BB will know my position doesn't mean that i will not try and play it even smarter. 

 

Hoestly WG should remove this from their heads, they've asked for feedback, got the feedback and now they have to act! The feedback is a big NO-NO for this. 

 

If they will not listen to 'us', i see no point of asking for opinions in the first place. 

 

 

[Nethraniel]

 

​shima week with 20 km Torps Shooting from 12km plus ?

 

Shima was 20km torps? I could also directly go shoot myself... 

 

Nah, thinking of F3 all the way.

[tsachev]

I am happy - another tool for good players (10.55% of votes) against mediocre players. Albeit the second group is usually in my team...

[Nethraniel]

I am happy - another tool for good players (10.55% of votes) against mediocre players. Albeit the second group is usually in my team...

 

And why is that good for the game itself?

[Spellfire40]

 

Shima was 20km torps? I could also directly go shoot myself... 

 

Nah, thinking of F3 all the way.

 

​actually i had a game were i did it for the lol but0 hits from 7km then a lots from 15km plus ,-) People see a dd a cap away asume they are safe and probably Think it were friendly torps passing by