anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER Players 1,473 posts Report post #51 Posted January 13, 2017 I have seen many battles where a lone ship has won the game where the remaining team have gone off chasing rather than just a simple win by cap. why should a 1 vs 2,3 or 4 be favourable to the 1 ship? If you are on the team that has failed that hard, do you as a team deserve the win? i have had krakens and sill lost. that sucks. but the team sucked harder, so the other team won, That seems fair to me. I think you're so wrong, if 1 lone ship wins a battle it's deserved, why would it not be if winning in the time allocated. Obviously the lone ships team deserved it if they won It's not just about sinking ships, taking caps and playing as a team win games, if one team has 2 caps out of 3, ahead on points and only a minute left, then they fully deserve the win Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,083 posts 4,481 battles Report post #52 Posted January 13, 2017 The best counter to a single remaining enemy ship that tries to stay hidden and run the clock down, is to cap - not to run the single remaining enemy ship down. A well-timed cap is a good, yet strangely under-used, tactic. If there is not enough time left, or allies remaining, to cap in time, then that's kudos to the single remaining enemy ship for a well-timed tactical retreat. I don't feel the need for a magic beeline, just so that I can win by killing instead of capping. Both are equally legitimate ways to win. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[72] mikelight1805 [72] Beta Tester 453 posts 14,842 battles Report post #53 Posted January 13, 2017 How is RDF perma detection? RDF has nothing to do with the detection mechanic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER Players 1,473 posts Report post #54 Posted January 13, 2017 I think you are missing something here. Any Gearings or Fletchers equipped with RDF are going to take that Shima out very early. It's not the Shima's prey having RDF that he needs to worry about, it's his predators. That's about right Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tajj7 Beta Tester 1,210 posts 1,486 battles Report post #55 Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) It helps slackers, which is why BB players like it. If anything it's the opposite, the ships that do best when spotted are BBs, being spotted is not a huge concern for them, for many DDs and Cruisers it is. Without it, the game would just be more favouring BBs, with it stealth ships can more comfortably move into flanking, ambush positions, they simply would do this less, without SA the game would just become more campy and long range. ----------------------------------- This skill for me just destroys the point of stealth play, people should not know where you are ALL the time by just having a skill on their ship, sure Radar and Hydro, but those are limited range, limited time, with cool downs and are usually chosen over other consumables, if I see say a Des Moines I know it;s radar range and radar length I can play around that, but if I see a solo ship and it has RDF I really can't. There is no real counter to this and it's just too powerful. Edited January 13, 2017 by tajj7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nethraniel Beta Tester 1,739 posts 1,782 battles Report post #56 Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) That's about right As I wrote somewhere else, IJN torpedo boats will have to constantly evade RPF-Mahans, Bensons, Fletchers and Geraings in the future, dimnishing their chances to influence the battle in a meaningful way. At the same time, the RPF USN DDs can dictate the flow of the DD vs. DD engagement, so the USN DDs are still able to perform their torp runs more or less as usual, plus, they can shoot stuff rather efficiently. Edited January 13, 2017 by Nethraniel 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[72] mikelight1805 [72] Beta Tester 453 posts 14,842 battles Report post #57 Posted January 13, 2017 I think you're so wrong, if 1 lone ship wins a battle it's deserved, why would it not be if winning in the time allocated. Obviously the lone ships team deserved it if they won It's not just about sinking ships, taking caps and playing as a team win games, if one team has 2 caps out of 3, ahead on points and only a minute left, then they fully deserve the win You may think i am wrong. that's the whole point of a forum. I don't think RDF is as game breaking as you. What i do think is it will remove a certain amount of skill from the game and make it easier for some players to do better without necessarily improving their understanding of the game.It takes a way a certain amount of pro-action and replaces it with reaction. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BONUS] Hedgehog1963 [BONUS] Beta Tester 3,211 posts 14,935 battles Report post #58 Posted January 13, 2017 If anything it's the opposite, the ships that do best when spotted are BBs, being spotted is not a huge concern for them, for many DDs and Cruisers it is. Without it, the game would just be more favouring BBs If a BB is schmoozing along knowing it isn't spotted it knows it is safe and need not even zig zag. If a BB is seeing it is detected but it can't see an enemy it should be able to avoid being torpedoed by just changing course and speed constantly. A DD knows it's detection distance, hell it's even drawn on your minimap. You should know whether you're spotted unless there are DDs stealthier than you in the battle. You certainly don't need situational awareness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,083 posts 4,481 battles Report post #59 Posted January 13, 2017 I don't think RDF is as game breaking as you. What i do think is it will remove a certain amount of skill from the game and make it easier for some players to do better without necessarily improving their understanding of the game.It takes a way a certain amount of pro-action and replaces it with reaction. This is well said, and to the point! And I believe that this development is taking the game in the wrong direction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[WIND] Elenortirion Players 1,890 posts 2,549 battles Report post #60 Posted January 13, 2017 I assume the intention of RPF is to counter stealth build sniping and to promote a more aggressive game. weather it will work or not remains to be seen. the very definition of "sniping" includes long range of engagement if intention of RPF/RDF was anyhow related to torpedo sniping then it is just as dumb if not dumber than introducing radar consumable and call it a countermeasure for long range torpedo spammers remind you what every sane person on forum was saying to this WG argumentation last year? long range spammers will not even notice the intruduction of consumable, while close range brawlers going hisk risk fr rewards mode gets countered by a clicking a button same here - skill shows you roughtly bearing for the CLOSEST enemy ship and by so the most vulnerable to it will be those who tried to run high risk high reward ambushes on enemies but then remember, that IJN DD stats are low not because they've bben overnerfed but because most of us are still trying to spam torpedoes from long ranges A DD knows it's detection distance, hell it's even drawn on your minimap. You should know whether you're spotted unless there are DDs stealthier than you in the battle. You certainly don't need situational awareness. inbefore trying to invisifire with enemy DD between you and your target [not like it is going to stay relevant case for long though ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #61 Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) You may think i am wrong. that's the whole point of a forum. I don't think RDF is as game breaking as you. What i do think is it will remove a certain amount of skill from the game and make it easier for some players to do better without necessarily improving their understanding of the game.It takes a way a certain amount of pro-action and replaces it with reaction. You also don't play IJN DD's, nor high tier IJN cruisers. Which makes it a lot easier to not think of it as game breaking edit: just to indicate that it's quite specific for which class/line this is exactly that -> game breaking. Edited January 13, 2017 by mtm78 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER Players 1,473 posts Report post #62 Posted January 13, 2017 You may think i am wrong. that's the whole point of a forum. I don't think RDF is as game breaking as you. What i do think is it will remove a certain amount of skill from the game and make it easier for some players to do better without necessarily improving their understanding of the game.It takes a way a certain amount of pro-action and replaces it with reaction. Exactly If we all agreed all the time, the forums would bore everyone to death I still think you're wrong though Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nethraniel Beta Tester 1,739 posts 1,782 battles Report post #63 Posted January 13, 2017 You also don't play IJN DD's, nor high tier IJN cruisers. Which makes it a lot easier to not think of it as game breaking edit: just to indicate that it's quite specific for which class/line this is exactly that -> game breaking. However, nothing wrong with IJN DDs... that they are statistically the worst DD higher tiers is absolutely fine and no reason to buff them, it is just a line you need to work harder for good results... (cited from sub_octavian) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[72] mikelight1805 [72] Beta Tester 453 posts 14,842 battles Report post #64 Posted January 13, 2017 You also don't play IJN DD's, nor high tier IJN cruisers. Which makes it a lot easier to not think of it as game breaking edit: just to indicate that it's quite specific for which class/line this is exactly that -> game breaking. Very true, I am not pretending to be a WoWs authority. I can only talk from my experience, which is formed from US, RN and KM cruisers. As i have said before, on this thread, and others, i am OK with this skill going live, and seeing how it pans out. If it breaks the game, the devs will change it, i am sure they will. I think it is disappointing that the game has taken this direction, as i love the satisfying feeling of ambushing a DD that doesn't know i am there. But, what i do believe is this is an experiment in making the game less passive. and that i welcome. In my ideal world i would love a CV overhaul and see CVs counter the high BB camp fest, and give back the US CAs the AA role they excelled in. that isn't happening, so we will se where RDF takes us. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #65 Posted January 13, 2017 However, nothing wrong with IJN DDs... that they are statistically the worst DD higher tiers is absolutely fine and no reason to buff them, it is just a line you need to work harder for good results... (cited from sub_octavian) Yup, it's only because I am a total scrub and can't play high skill cap ships Ow wait.... Very true, I am not pretending to be a WoWs authority. I can only talk from my experience, which is formed from US, RN and KM cruisers. As i have said before, on this thread, and others, i am OK with this skill going live, and seeing how it pans out. If it breaks the game, the devs will change it, i am sure they will. I think it is disappointing that the game has taken this direction, as i love the satisfying feeling of ambushing a DD that doesn't know i am there. But, what i do believe is this is an experiment in making the game less passive. and that i welcome. In my ideal world i would love a CV overhaul and see CVs counter the high BB camp fest, and give back the US CAs the AA role they excelled in. that isn't happening, so we will se where RDF takes us. This will make the game MORE passive as being aggressive and using concealment to move up to favorable map positions aka get map control is being stopped in it's track. The skill will result in more camping and more long range sniping. I do agree CV's should be put back into a position of power in relation to BB's ( lower BB AAA ) and compensate this with encouraging / rewarding cruisers escorting the BB's. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[72] mikelight1805 [72] Beta Tester 453 posts 14,842 battles Report post #66 Posted January 13, 2017 (edited) There is only one way to find out if it breaks the game...................... Edited January 13, 2017 by mikelight1805 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_EFwxJOPWzlER Players 1,473 posts Report post #67 Posted January 13, 2017 There is only one way to find out if it brakes the game...................... Maybe it will "grind to a halt" then Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[72] mikelight1805 [72] Beta Tester 453 posts 14,842 battles Report post #68 Posted January 13, 2017 i noticed my spelling, and have already corrected it! back to the point at hand. I think the whole rock paper scissor concept of the game has unintentionally fell by the wayside some what. It seems that the balance is tipped to far in either direction, and maybe a more measured response is needed. I expect there is something already in the pipeline. Unfortunately we never get to know what the devs are planing in the next 3 patches. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurbain Players 1,976 posts 2,773 battles Report post #69 Posted January 13, 2017 Judging by my experiences on the PT, I don't consider it as game-breaking as many claim, but it is definitely not a positive addition to the game. It does add a new element to the game that has to be adapted to and played around, but overall it limits the gameplay more than it expands it. Its influence on the competitive scene worries me the most, as it will surely have the highest impact there, considering there's a lot more teamwork going on than in random battles. Furthermore it negatively affects DDs the most - a class that has been getting nerfed for months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,083 posts 4,481 battles Report post #70 Posted January 13, 2017 Judging by my experiences on the PT, I don't consider it as game-breaking as many claim, but it is definitely not a positive addition to the game. It does add a new element to the game that has to be adapted to and played around, but overall it limits the gameplay more than it expands it. Its influence on the competitive scene worries me the most, as it will surely have the highest impact there, considering there's a lot more teamwork going on than in random battles. Furthermore it negatively affects DDs the most - a class that has been getting nerfed for months. Now that you mention it, a perceived trend to nerfbash - directly or indirectly - small, fast and lightly armoured scout vehicles, is something that sounds vaguely familiar... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nethraniel Beta Tester 1,739 posts 1,782 battles Report post #71 Posted January 13, 2017 Now that you mention it, a perceived trend to nerfbash - directly or indirectly - small, fast and lightly armoured scout vehicles, is something that sounds vaguely familiar... Parallels to light tanks are purely coincidental... you are talking, as if the two games would come from the same company... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[CPA] Procrastes Beta Tester 4,083 posts 4,481 battles Report post #72 Posted January 13, 2017 Parallels to light tanks are purely coincidental... you are talking, as if the two games would come from the same company... Your words bring me comfort, good Sir. I thought I was getting delusional, in my old age. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtm78 Alpha Tester 19,378 posts 6,105 battles Report post #73 Posted January 13, 2017 There is only one way to find out if it breaks the game...................... Yes, using your brains and thinking about the concept of a skill which removes tactical usage of concealment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capra76 Players 5,001 posts 7,787 battles Report post #74 Posted January 13, 2017 Judging by my experiences on the PT, I don't consider it as game-breaking as many claim, but it is definitely not a positive addition to the game. I would kind of go with that, it's not worth 4 points for a BB, it's questionable for a DD, the only ships that it really makes sense for are CA/CL. The problems I have with it are: lots of potential for mods to abuse it to make it far more powerful than intended, particularly for divisions; being the RPF target changes the risk/reward calculation for DD even if the ship you're attacking isn't the one with RPF; why do DD need another nerf? What do they get in return? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[72] mikelight1805 [72] Beta Tester 453 posts 14,842 battles Report post #75 Posted January 13, 2017 Yes, using your brains and thinking about the concept of a skill which removes tactical usage of concealment tactical concealment is still going to be perfectly viable. Just because you know what direction nearest enemy is doesn't mean you know what it is, or which way it is heading. How you act upon that information is up to the player. There will still need to be some educated guess work where the DD is or might be heading. Is the RDF tracking a stealth Atago or is it tracking a DD? Say if i had RDF on my Edinburgh, and RDF is tracking something i cannot see. Is it the enemy Kagero which i should be able to take care of, or is it the Zao which hasnt been spotted for a while? Do i turn in to the indicator, fire up the hydro, go balls out and prey its the DD? Do i choose to ignore it and let the stealth ship go on its merry way? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
