Public Test 0.6.0 - Changes for Test 2

[Boris_MNE]

I enjoy watching this  NICE feedback bout their skills. Devs must be pround on their work! haha

 

[Tsume_Eiranis]

 

The idea behind the skill is to improve the role of DD hunters that is crucial to all cruisers and some destroyers. While the skill will certainly be a powerful one, it has quite a high cost and will come at the expense of another skill. We expect this to be an efficient option for these ships, but definitely not a must.

 

The idea is also not to remove a layer of skill, but add a layer of tactical choice in the skill-tree and on the battlefield.

 

 

We put a lot of thought into this change and we don't expect it to be overpowered in ranked as Ranked Battles tend to have more close quarter combat, where spotting is more frequent anyway.

 

As for competitive play, the skill will definitely open up more options for "Recon" ships and some sneaky strategies, both using the skill and maybe abusing the fact that the enemy team is relying on the skill. In general we think that more options here are better for the game.

 

 

We will keep looking at all the feedback, but we will not always be able to make decisions based solely on it.

 

From my part, I can only ask that you guys keep testing the current build and keep providing great feedback. We will make sure that it is heard.

 

 

Dear MrConway,

 

While I can understand your reasoning regarding DD hunters, this is a nice theory but nothing more.

 

As others pointed out, DDs have already quite a few threats and it will add no tactical layer, at least not for me. I will play under the assumption that everyone has this skill and will behave accordingly. I will do the bare minimum, no longer try and engage in risky flanking maneuvers because the chance of reward is diminished profoundly by the fact that my approach will be anticipated.

 

You already changed DDs with the IJN split. Their torps have lost potency (range), German DDs have a bloom that is beyond ludicrous (and lasts too long as well), Russian DDs were never sneaky to begin with, so the point is moot for them, and American DDs have a very good all-round mix to get along.

 

We have Radar and Sonar in the game, even on some chosen few BBs now. The population of said BBs is too high to begin with and a tool for cruisers to hunt DDs will not change that, on the contrary.

 

Additionally, certain high-reward stealth cruiser builds will also be slammed (Mogami e.g.).

 

Add to it the fact you want to up the potency of the HE shells (my Kutuzov and 155mm Mogami already devour DDs easily) and you have another threat coming to DDs. In that same regard, changing a ship (tier VIII IJN DD) and then saying "pick the skill up to bring it back" is a very, VERY poor design choice. No ship should be designed with the skills in mind and thusly "nerfed" pre-emptively to 'level' the performance. That is like reducing the range and upping the reload time on German BB secondaries now in hindsight and telling us to pick the secondary skills up to bring it back up to par. That's a very slippery slope.

 

If you are so adamant about DD hunters needing RPF, split the tech trees according to ship classes. DD, CL, CA, BC, BB, CV, etc. Give each ship a corresponding tree, making specialisations even more apparent and possible. (and it forces the players to have more captains / level more captains, maybe with doubloons? *winkwinknudgenudge*)

 

Lately it already feels like certain DD builds (i look at the IJN post-split and KM) were designed with the skills in mind. Especially the German DDs getting cruiser bloom after fireing DD guns is a kick in the gonads and the two with the 150mm don't even get cruiser ranges... the entire year of 2016 started well but sometime in spring your tweaks, patches, and adjustments slowly but surely dumbed the game down, killed a lot of player thinking and self-reliance, and it feels like you are adamant to continue this path.

[Mavadelo]

 

To be clear: this is not what I want, I want RPF to be taken out the back, shot, shot again, then buried ten feet deep in an unmarked grave, with a wooden stake through its heart, then nuked from orbit, just to be sure.

 

+googolplexian (and for those not knowing what that means, it's the largest number with a name)

[ulcusrodens]

making floatplane fighters useless, forcing players to chose between endurance and firepower and implementing RPF.

 

i couldn't think of a better way to nerf BBs and DDs at the same time.

[TheBigLanowski]

 

But they want to give us CHOICES, you know, of being USELESS with your HE or not. Must have skill for Akizuki confirmed, together with RDF ofc and CE... expensive built. 

 

Just tested it a bit and HEAP is not that essential on Aki, maybe full AA build is more viable (if cv's don't go extinct with this patch) and go for fires.

[nekomatafuyu]

Random thought on RPF: How would people feel if it had to be activated in the same way as radar or sonar, with a limited duration and a reload timer? I get the feeling that it would be a hell of a lot less obnoxious then, plus it would introduce an element of skill in that you'd have to gauge when is a good time to activate it.

[clancy774]

That would be a first for a skill... to be activated manually. 

 

One of the biggest concerns about this skill is that you need it yourself to counter it, especially in a DD. But according to MrConways explanation, the skill is intended for dedicated DD hunters (i.e. cruisers). How about... not needing it to counter it? 

 

So far it works the following way: 

 

Hunter: Gets a pointer to the sector of the closest enemy 

Prey: Gets a notice that he is detected 

 

But how about this: 

 

Hunter: Gets a pointer to the sector of the closest enemy 

Prey: Gets a pointer to the sector of who is spotting him as well

 

That way it will still be viable for DDs to chose other 4 point skills instead of RPF. And it doesn't make any difference to the dedicated DD hunters (cruisers) because those will most likely be spotted during the hunt anyway. 

 

So RPF becomes a double-edged sword. Yes, it tells you where the closest enemy is. But it also tells the closest enemy where YOU are. 

[peachpest]

Funny how they say they intend to make changes to RPF after this 2nd test which means they will do the bare minimum to change it just so they can say look we did something.

[Boris_MNE]

Funny how they say they intend to make changes to RPF after this 2nd test which means they will do the bare minimum to change it just so they can say look we did something.

 

And we are THAT stupid so they can trick us.

[HyoukaYukikaze]

Captains, the following changes were made for the second iteration of the 0.6.0 public test:

 

Ships

1. Akizuki: armor penetration of 100-mm HE Type8 shell was reduced from 19 mm to 17 mm.
   • This is a purely technical change, as 19 mm was not enough to match 19 mm DD plating. In 0.6.0, players who would like to penetrate 19 mm plating with 100-mm HE shells, should use the Inertial HE Fuse skill.

People already said this, but this is plain stupid. not only makes it a "must have skill" for HE on Akizuki to be even remotely useful. Oh, wait, what was one of the rasons of the changes again??

Ah, it was introducing more diversity.

Well, now Akizuki has already 3 skills she must take HEAP (i like the name better tbh, i keep forgeting the new one), CE and RPF. So much for diversity.

 

But thats even beside the point, the point is: isn't balancing ships around skills a bad design? It IS what makes some skills a must have. When you nerf a ship because there is skill that does X and players will take it to do Z and it is not intended that ship to do Z then you crate a must have skill and its bad design . It's always easier to change skills instead of countless ships that already are and will be introduced into the game.

Imho this whole skill  revamp is a wasted opportunity in that regard. It might have been used to introduce more tradeoff skills, that reduce X and buff Y for example, with each skill taken further specialising the ship, as well as some utility ones (like superintendent for example. The whole idea of Y buffing certain parameters of a ship, without tradeoffs, is core reason for a "must have skills". Like CE for example.  Its absolute must have on at least half of the ships in game.

But i guess its too late for that.

 

 

And besides, i think RPF should be gone. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthago_delenda_est)

If you really want to introduce it, at list make it a usable ability with cooldown, like radar  or hydro. Then it could even be a nice skill.

With it being more radar like (30s duration, long CD, 3 uses per battle) you might even make it point directly at a ship. Superintendent would increase number of charges by 1.

If more like hydro, you would increase duration but make it point in general direction, as it does now.

But that would kill german DDs, as the only reason to play them is hydro.

 

 So RPF becomes a double-edged sword. Yes, it tells you where the closest enemy is. But it also tells the closest enemy where YOU are. 

 

This is also a nice idea.

 

But the best solution is still to simply remove it.

 

[shulzidar]

That way it will still be viable for DDs to chose other 4 point skills instead of RPF. And it doesn't make any difference to the dedicated DD hunters (cruisers) because those will most likely be spotted during the hunt anyway. 

 

It simply doesn't work... Cruisers can't hunt a thing because of speed (Even the slowest Torpedo Boat is faster than a CA)... ANY cruiser that want to hunt a DD can be lured by their target to show their flank to the allied BBs of the hunted DD... IT'S TRIVIAL... A CA can only do this when a DD is trying to flank an enemy group and isolates himself from the team (Or the battle is close to end)... Then AND ONLY then a smart CA player can now corner the DD and spot EARLY whatever torp barrage the DD tries to land on him or the group he is patrolling... Precissely what WILL NOT HAPPEN AT ALL if RPF hits live because Torpedo Boats will not flank/ambush any longer...

 

...What RPF in a CA will do is to allow them to INFORM others about the direction the nearest invisible threat is and from were torpedos can come...

 

...Meanwhile ALMOST all decent gunboats are FASTER than their equivalent IJN DD... Speed, combined with RPF will guarantee 100% detection of the enemy Torpedo Boat. The only variable here, paradoxically, isn't in hand of neither hunter nor prey... The precission in return fire of the prey "escort" is what will determine if the Torpboat or the Gunboat are successful.

 

The Dev is simply ignoring the reality of CAs WITH or WITHOUT RPF implemented... Blatantly dismissing that the REAL obstacle for CA to "escort" their allies have never been the torpedo boats, it's the fact that to do so, they become walking citadels waiting for the BBs to score a bunch of big damage numbers.

 

All this crap is just to use boredom as population control... No torpedo boats = no Torpedo whinning coming from BBs... Easier to understand than all the nonsense they have been trying to sell us... It's what RPF brings, it's the perfect disuasory tool to be sure no1 does nothing that could make them killed... That's why it has to inform their prey CLEARLY that's been tracked... So even a new player that takes the bad decission of playing a Torpedo Boat knows something "bad" is about to happen to him.

[GeneraIlKrizmuz]

 

 

 

Any of Devs actually care for 666 voters?

 

only if those voters are russian

[HaganeNoKaze]

Nothing to add about RPF, it's allways a NO !

 

About the change about Evasive Manoeuvers, the effort is welcome, but it remains a NO too:

-Reducing speed means having less raids during the entire game, -40% gave in average 3-4 less raids, -20% is now, -2, -1 but it's allways too much damage reduction. Playing CV is enoug boring like this.

-Increasing HP only during returning aircraft... okay, but no, considering you lost most of the aircraft during assault, there is no impact, your remaining planes will be still shot down (especially IJN planes) during return if squadron is already damaged

-After testing, perk does not work if you add extra orders during return, for having skill working, you have to go back in straight line to the carrier... if you fly above ennemy fleet, perk or not, you loose your planes. But adding extra order restores your speed, in the end, you can still flee ennemy fighters.

 

Finally, this perk is still useless, I would be more interestedby a perk for example:

Lightened Armament:

-Increase HP of attack aircraft squadron by 25%

-Reducing the damage of all attacking planes by 40%

 

It would be:

-More fun for CV, since you would probably have more chance to do some raids.

-Less stressful for ennemy ships, by receiving less damage (not really true for this, most of idiotic players from this game can just accept to receive damage, even if CV torpedoes would do only 1 damage they would still cry)

 

 

I don't understand why we still have useless perks like Tail Gunner Expert, we even don't have the DPS of the tail gunner for the planes !

No real third perk to choose.

 

Enough CV talk,

 

This patch is still too much buff for BBs, even without talking about RPF crap. And instead of having real choices, now we can have more options easily (I still find ridiculous and stupid to permitting boosting both Secondaries and AA... Split them !)

Akizuki nerf is... ridiculous, it's like forcing to take IFHE, when the ship is already hard to play.

At least one word about RPF... Talking about DDs hunter... playing IJN DDs will sound like being a prey everytime, you weaponry is weaker, you can't deal with cannon fight, and every other DD in the game can kill you (no need to talk about Akizuki, the HE penetration nerf acheive to make her useless in gunboat fights.

One more step into gunboat game, the most unskilled and uninteresting DD playstyle. Consider to remove IJN DDs please.

 

To be honest, i don't know if IFHE could be efficient on cruisers or not, If someone already tried it, I am interested by results !

 

Battleships is just... noobish style as ever (I don't say I don't have fun with them, it's just too much no brain then, finally, you only die from stupid errors, your ships have too much efficiency, autodefense, and powerful item, the entire class kills the game by pushing to play them, close to no stress and unfeeling game when playing them..)

 

Finally, the entire patch just push the game to a worst gameplay, easier, more stupid, too much noob friendly (and CryBB friendly too), and killing a bit more the interest to play it.

We have more passive gameplay

We can play alone without giving a crapof what is happening around.. yeah !! ..... [edited], initial teamplay (even if it was rare) in early game phase and versions was definitely better.

Better to kill skills and bring winbutton.

 

Patch after patch, we are heading to World of Battleship (You should already think about renaming it.)

 

 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Hatsuharu vs CV

 

In many games on the live server I see CV player never moving or just sitting behind the obvious islands, which I can sort of understand because CV play is click intensive and splitting your attention between planes, your ships, and tactical options is a lot to handle.  However, there are times when I run into those CV players that seem to do it all... they watch the mini map and re-position their carrier ( probably having concealment expert)... so that they are very hard to track down in a DD.  This is a skill I do not have nor probably ever will.  Respect. 

 

On the public test server I am I running RDF on the Hatsuharu, and CV are now simple to track down mid to late game.  All that skill and re-positioning of your CV are a waste of time.   Sickening really.

 

 

[15_22]

After playing some games on DDs on PTS v2 I decided to stop playing them on normal server as soon as patch will come up. Last game I've done on Akizuki. Domination, late game, I'm last one alive from my team, 1 CL and 1 BB on enemy team left. Without RPF it would be even battle, but I couldn't even run away from them to capture some points, because their noses and guns were pointed at me regardless of what I was trying to do. Not to mention, that every torpedoes were easily dodged, because with RPF it's impossible to flank someone. So eventually second after they spotted me on the end I vapourised, because they exactly knew which direction i will appear.

 

With all these nerfs you've done lately with RPF on top of the cake IJN DDs became just simply unplayable for me. I regret now buying premium Kamikaze - just a waste of money.

I will still play this game probably, but I'm not investing a single penny more in it. With current politics of WG I give up, and I started to grind German BB line.

 

I see few solutions to this:

First (best one) - remove RPF, because it breaks the game

Second -  implement (like someone mentioned before) Radio Silence, activated by button which makes user blind, user can see only what he is spotting, disabling chat, disabling F-keys, marking targets impossible, doesn't provide information to friendly team of what user spotted, makes him immune to RPF

Third - just stop playing DDs, as they are not wanted in game, and start playing BBs (not cruisers, because cruisers are easily one-salvo deleted)

Fourth - go back to playing GTA5 or something, that will be actually fun

 

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention about radar, or I should say X-Raydar spotting everything even if it's behind mountain. I'm not an expert, but I think real radar is bouncing off physical objects, and not detecting anything behind them, and as far as I know mountain is rather big, solid, physical object.

[mtm78]

 

Just tested it a bit and HEAP is not that essential on Aki, maybe full AA build is more viable (if cv's don't go extinct with this patch) and go for fires.

 

That's good to hear

[Altsak]

I play a lot of DD hunting in the live servers. If WG wants me to be even more aggressive RPF isn't going to help. Give me a skill that reduces (disrecarding all the other implications) my bloom duration so that I can get back to stealth more quickly when zooming to the front to kill that DD.

[KaraMon]

 

Just tested it a bit and HEAP is not that essential on Aki, maybe full AA build is more viable (if cv's don't go extinct with this patch) and go for fires.

 

Made some testings too , nerf to HE penetration didn't have any vital impact on HE performance so i can live with those . Only problem for me is the fact if i want to build "proper" Akizuki i can't take "Magical Radar" . I simply boosted whatever Aki has good , AFT, CE, SE, BFT , and a top of all Adrenaline . Man that thing badly damaged start to sound like 4 cylinder diesel on low revs

[Nethraniel]

Ugh... played one match in Akatsuki today in the morning.

 

Skill set up - 17p

Tier 1 - Preventive Maintenance

Tier 2 - Last Stand

Tier 3 - Torpedo Armament Expertise & Survivability Expert

Tier 4 - Concealment Expert & Radio Position Finding

 

Match was 9 vs. 9 domination because of low population with T9 ships as highest tier. My team had 2 DD, enemy team had 3 DD, where the enemy Leberecht Maaß also had RPF, and was the only enemy ship with that skill (at least from my observations and the information I got from my team mates).

Result: I could keep away from the enemy Maaß and the enemy Mahan (actually here, RPF was jumping between the Maaß and the Mahan, even though I never saw the Mahan in the first place, but I knew another DD was around), that were both in the B cap to which I also was heading, do some damage with my guns on the Maaß, scaring it away from pushing to hard on my position. As soon as a friendly Bismarck was pushing that cap, I could get out of the 'nearest enemy' zone, so I could flank the cap. The Bismarck got torped, I torped the Maaß with a lot of luck and a bit guesswork from RPF. After the enemy team lost its RPF boat, I could outplay the rest of the enemy team with ease, torping an enemy Gneisenau from full health with offensive smoke use (it took me however 3 full salvos until I could score hits), and hunting down the enemy Mahan together with a friendly T9 Donskoi.

 

This match showed me 2 things:

1) stealthy DD with RPF can, if unopposed by another RPF ship, easily outplay any non-radar enemy, however, torp runs only work against overly aggressive or completely brain-afk enemies at ranges below 6 km. So, in order to make torpedoes work against skilled players, one needs to be rather suicidal.

 

2) the average player skill and player awareness on the PTS is even lower than on the live server... when looking at the match I was playing, and the fact, that only one ship in the enemy team had RPF, I am not so sure, the PTS gives meaningful results, that really represent the live environment. Here, I would like to see on the PTS from what server the other players originally are.

 

Summary:

RPF is much too strong when used by skilled players, especially when unopposed by enemy ships with that skill. Further, PTS server population does not seem to really test the hell out of the new skills, as I would expect or hope to. I would like to see matches where almost every player has this skill, because that scenario is at least a possibility in the future.

[KaraMon]

2) the average player skill and player awareness on the PTS is even lower than on the live server... when looking at the match I was playing, and the fact, that only one ship in the enemy team had RPF, I am not so sure, the PTS gives meaningful results, that really represent the live environment. Here, I would like to see on the PTS from what server the other players originally are.

 

In previous test nearly everyone had this skill , now not too many. For me looks like there is group of new players on PTS that do not know what is this why where and how to use it . Accusations of hacking already started "i was never spoted by anyone how you found me you hacker ?" is starting

[Nethraniel]

In previous test nearly everyone had this skill

 

I played like 12-15 battles in PTS 0.6.0 v1... never encountered much more than 2-3 ships with RPF in the enemy team.

[ThePurpleSmurf]

 

I played like 12-15 battles in PTS 0.6.0 v1... never encountered much more than 2-3 ships with RPF in the enemy team.

 

The problem with PTS is, that all kind of potatoes play there. They do not care about the changes, they are awful bad at the game, they do not even read the description of the skills for their commander. The only reason why so many potatoes are on the PTS is, that they want to play TX ships they will never have on live and/or leech the free XP camos and the 24h free premium time.

 

I have no numbers, but i would guess that less than 1% of the whole playerbase from all regions even bother to download the PTS client. Things will change on live and much higher percentage of players will pick skills like RPF and the data from PTS, that WG use to analyse how skills are used, are pretty much null and void.

PTS should be there to test changes for bugs and unusual side-effects, but not to determine the quality of a skill that has the potential to break the game. For this there are many competent high skilled player that would gladly help to test commander skill changes, but they are ignored like the rest of us. Yeah, WG said they will look into it and yadda, but all the statements i have read so far sound to me, as if the decision to let RPF go live are already set in stone and the complaints by so many players do not count.

[Banzan]

Awareness is a major part of these games (or the lack of it). Giving players a skill to help them will not change much, if they are not able to take actions on it. It's the same for forbidden mods (i.e. for WoT). Just having them doesn't turn people into good players. If they are not able to make use of the given information nothing will change, or even worse, too much information will just irritate them.

 

The better players who were difficult to surprise before won't take this skill, the worse players will be surprised as before, no matter if they took the skill or not.

[Nethraniel]

Awareness is a major part of these games (or the lack of it). Giving players a skill to help them will not change much, if they are not able to take actions on it. It's the same for forbidden mods (i.e. for WoT). Just having them doesn't turn people into good players. If they are not able to make use of the given information nothing will change, or even worse, too much information will just irritate them.

 

The better players who were difficult to surprise before won't take this skill, the worse players will be surprised as before, no matter if the took the skill or not.

 

Which also translates to: keep RPF out off the game.

[fatmonk]

The idea behind the skill is to improve the role of DD hunters that is crucial to all cruisers and some destroyers. While the skill will certainly be a powerful one, it has quite a high cost and will come at the expense of another skill. We expect this to be an efficient option for these ships, but definitely not a must.

 

Edit: If that's the intention, then I have far better options for you:

Change it with a skill thats good for cruiser/DD hunters then.

A hydro or radar buffing skill, either prolonged use, better range or faster cooldown. Solved! That wasn't so hard really.

Long range passive and active sonar, was even in use under WW2. That would also mean a buff for the german DDs..

 

The cost isn't that high with the new skill tree, and the noobs will take it over other useful skills, with the result they go hunt, die fast and the team loses again because of some knab don't know any basics about winning a game.

 

It crosses my mind that to be successful at DD hunting, has something to do with awareness, and most of the times teamwork - even!.

There are multiple ways to equip your ship to fulfill a role. That is where you IRL skills can be used in the game. Not some ingame "skill".

 

There are lots of builds that you can use in DD hunting and any hunting for that matter, there are also lot of factors to take into consideration already like:

concealment when firing and when not, radar, smoke, hydro, planes etc. etc. etc.

(And you even nerf hydro on the Bismarck, but implement this.... ? - Isn't that contradictory?)

 

We put a lot of thought into this change and we don't expect it to be overpowered in ranked as Ranked Battles tend to have more close quarter combat, where spotting is more frequent anyway.

 

I also put a lot of thought into this, and it still bugs me how you came up with that idea. -

To say that spotting is more frequent anyway doesn't reason anything still.

But yes that last one player who is a DD on the winning team will for sure be hunted down, and killed so the lesser team wins!

How can this be given alot of thought?

 

As for competitive play, the skill will definitely open up more options for "Recon" ships and some sneaky strategies, both using the skill and maybe abusing the fact that the enemy team is relying on the skill. In general we think that more options here are better for the game.

 

No! This doesn't sound right. Nor well thought out at all. Its just annoying to take this space skill into consideration.

 

For me it is going in a complete wrong direction, Id rather see more players progressing and improving,

than implementing skills that makes them dumber, and the game boring.