Is AA to strong on HT?

[avenger121]

 

Cool story bruh, now let's look at all the statistics for tier X for the last two weeks:

- battles played: only Z-52 does worse, midway 6200, hakuryu 7600 compared to shima 75k and yamato 69k battles, so obviously CVs are played so often cause they are OP,

- WR: Midway is bottom at 47 % Hak is second at 53 %, this shows the imbalance between the two CVs and also showds that damage ( your only number ) does not eaqual winning,

- XP: Midway is in the middle with just under 1600 , Hak is third from the bottom at about 1560, top two are yamato and minotaur, both just a fraction over 1700. So obviously the reward for damage is so big you gain massive xp,

- Both carriers lead massively in K/D ratio ( by a large margin ), logical: these aren't frontline ships, so less likely to sink,

- They lead on avg shipkills ( Hak 1.5, Mid 1.2 ) next two are minotaur and GK ( 1.1 and 1.0 ). So they are ahead, won't argue there. They seem to kill ships easier ( so why doesn't this translate in higher xp?),

- Plane kills they lead by a large margin ( so why doesn't this translate into a higher xp?),

- Survival rate is ofc a lot higher as well ( not a frontline ship)

 

 

So all in all they perform better in some areas and are abismal in other. Maybe next time have the intellectual honesty to post all stats.

 

 

PS: stop posting in CV topics as you've never ever played one, even tho you claim they are super OP. That must make you what? Super ******* for not playing these pwnzor ships?

 

It has been mentioned in literally every 5th post above you, WR is pointless to discuss due to CV mirror MM. Carrier WR only shows which nation´s CVs are better.

 

It has also been mentioned that every ship ingame has a individual XP factor, thus XP cant be compared.

 

Also player numbers or in other words popularity =/= performance.

 

 

 

All 3 things have been mentioned several times in this thread alone, still you dare to post such nonsense. You are like the DD players that go to the 1 line in epicenter matches and report their "noob" team afterwards.

[Shadeshots]

Most ships at tier X have decent AA for balance or planes would just too powerful. Even DD's at tier X have medicore AA ofc it wont be the greatest but it does damage and it is noticeable. 

 

Tbh though if a CA especially a tier X one is getting so many plane kills then the CV sending those planes is not smart. I mean im not being funny if i can avoid a Mino or a Des Moines in my CV for example i will do it because the plane causalities is not worth it if there are better targets to go for.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

It has been mentioned in literally every 5th post above you, WR is pointless to discuss due to CV mirror MM. Carrier WR only shows which nation´s CVs are better.

 

It has also been mentioned that every ship ingame has a individual XP factor, thus XP cant be compared.

 

Also player numbers or in other words popularity =/= performance.

 

 

 

All 3 things have been mentioned several times in this thread alone, still you dare to post such nonsense. You are like the DD players that go to the 1 line in epicenter matches and report their "noob" team afterwards.

What is mirror mm?

 

I am eager to hear about this mirro mm crap. I hope it is not that bouth cv are same tier

[Seeigel]

Problem is AA isnt too strong but rather too easy to use.

 

While I love my AA specced US ships, all I have to to when I see planes in range is press a button (defensive fire) and maybe klick and one squadron so it gets 100% damage (manuall AA skill). Job done, keep shooting at ships without even caring about your AA.

 

I play alot CV, I played also alot CV in Navyfield, there, AA was even stronger BUT you had to do more. Knowing your angles of your guns, firing your AA guns etc. It was absolutly possible to down not only a plane or a squadron, but all attacking aircrafts in more or less a second.

 

It required more interaction (and skill) but was more fun for both sides.

[Shadeshots]

What is mirror mm?

 

Mirror MM is what CV MM is, for example, if you have 1 CV thats tier 10 the other team will have 1 CV thats tier 10 (Mirrored so its fair) You use to get games back in the day where there'd be 2 CV's even in tier 9 and tier 10 games before but they took it out from tier 8+ (correct me if im wrong) so you can still get 2 CV's per team in games lower than tier 8, but there will only be 1 CV max per team ever after tier 8. 

 

I have horrible memories of having to deal with 2 tier 10 CV's in a Gearing back in the day, and i dont even need to explain what that was like as most people here can probably familiarise with that in any ship class. lol

[RAYvenMP]

Also player numbers or in other words popularity =/= performance.

this statement wasn't true since the first competitive game ever created

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

Mirror MM is what CV MM is, for example, if you have a CV the other team will have a CV and itll be the same tier (Mirrored so its fair) You use to get 2 CV's even in tier 9 and tier 10 games before but they took it out from tier 8+ (correct me if im wrong) so you can still get 2 CV's per team in games lowers than tier 8, but there will only be 1 CV max per team after tier 8.

 

 

Mirror MM is what CV MM is, for example, if you have a CV the other team will have a CV and itll be the same tier (Mirrored so its fair) You use to get 2 CV's even in tier 9 and tier 10 games before but they took it out from tier 8+ (correct me if im wrong) so you can still get 2 CV's per team in games lowers than tier 8, but there will only be 1 CV max per team after tier 8.

 

so you have +-1 mm for dds (but most ussual is same number of dds)..so also winrate for dd is not good metrics?

[WingedHussar_Adler]

i just can not believe we have retard who never ever played cv and thinks he can talk about strenght or weeknesses of class...i know that avenger has 12 years, but still so much ignorance and stoopidity in one place...so sad

[Shadeshots]

 

 

so you have +-1 mm for dds (but most ussual is same number of dds)..so also winrate for dd is not good metrics?

 

I never look at metrics tbh i just log into the game to play it, i dont care for the behind the scenes number game, MM is always + 2 Max of your tier no matter what ship, unless divisions tier spread is too much then sometimes you get a tier 5 in a tier 8 game for example, so if your in a tier 8 you can play in matchs of tier 8, 9 or 10 games, if your in a tier 6, you can be matched with tier 6 ,7 or 8. (8 being maxed) The game tries to Mirror MM most classes but it often doesn't work hence to why some games 1 team might have an extra dd or something, and it also tries to even the tier spread for each team but again mostly it doesnt work that way but thats is basically what the matchmaker tries to do. But mirror MM is more noticeable for CV's because you only ever can have 1 per team at tier 8+ and a max of 2 per team in any tier under 8 and itll always give you a 'mirror' of what 1 team has with CV so there is never a game where 1 team has a CV and the other doesnt because that would just be insanely unfair for the team without one.

[Shadeshots]

i just can not believe we have retard who never ever played cv and thinks he can talk about strenght or weeknesses of class...i know that avenger has 12 years, but still so much ignorance and stoopidity in one place...so sad

 

I have Essex and Shokaku but CV's isnt what i play much of, i play DD's (only the German DD tree i need to get to tier 10 right now) and BB's more (though the only tier X BB i have right now is Montana) though i must admit i am loving my Des Moines since i have it, that thing can do some crazy damage and im really enjoying it, which is rather surprising since i never was a CA player lol. Not sure what tier x to get next though. but i have most at tier 8+.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

I never look at metrics tbh i just log into the game to play it, i dont care for the behind the scenes number game, MM is always + 2 Max of your tier no matter what ship, unless divisions tier spread is too much then sometimes you get a tier 5 in a tier 8 game for example, so if your in a tier 8 you can play in matchs of tier 8, 9 or 10 games, if your in a tier 6, you can be matched with tier 6 ,7 or 8. (8 being maxed) The game tries to Mirror MM most classes but it often doesn't work hence to why some games 1 team might have an extra dd or something, and it also tries to even the tier spread for each team but again mostly it doesnt work that way but thats is basically what the matchmaker tries to do. But mirror MM is more noticeable for CV's because you only ever can have 1 per team at tier 8+ and a max of 2 per team in any tier under 8 and itll always give you a 'mirror' of what 1 team has with CV so there is never a game where 1 team has a CV and the other doesnt because that would just be insanely unfair for the team without one.

 

dds also have simmilar MM...there is never more than 1 +- per side.....and still that fact is irrelevant in metrics about OP or UP ships.

 

OP ship is ship that can decide the win of game, and has decisive edge over others ships, no metter MM.....CV is not that ship.

 

CV can not push, CV can not stop push......2 ships saling together is NO DMG ZONE FOR CV, and win or lose depends of killing other teams core group. and cv can not helpe here.

 

CV hunts solo yolo players which influnce over win/lose is small. 

 

CV pumps dmg on noobs

 

CV can ONLY win match in early stages by eliminating dds without cover.

 

SO when noobs posts DMG of CV as arguent about UP/OP status of CV you know you have argument with braindead zombi

[avenger121]

so you have +-1 mm for dds (but most ussual is same number of dds)..so also winrate for dd is not good metrics?

 

Here is a very simple example that even you should be able to understand:

 

1x ship type A is on team red and 1x ship type A is on team blue. Team blue wins, server WR for ship type A is 50%.

 

3x ship type A is on team red and 3x ship type A is on team blue. Team red wins, server WR for ship type A is 50%.

 

1x ship type A is on team red and 0x ship type A is on team blue. Team red wins, server WR for ship type A is 100%.

 

2x ship type A is on team red and 1x ship type A is on team blue. Team blue wins, server WR for ship type A is 33%.

 

 

THEREFORE IF YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF CVs PER TEAM ON BOTH SIDES [MIRROR MM; DO YOU GET IT NOW??!!] THE WINRATE FOR ALL CVs OF ONE TIER TOGETHER IS 50%. THEREFORE WR SHOWS AT BEST WHICH CV OF ONE TIER IS BETTER.

 

I dont even know why I am disucssing with you anymore. Edit: Seeing your post below, yeah I am the stupid 12 year old one and not you, because you are the one that doesnt even understand mirror MM and if effects, therefore my arguments are all stupid and invalid. It has no point at all, just kill me right now. Weekend potatoes the forum edition.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

I have Essex and Shokaku but CV's isnt what i play much of, i play DD's (only the German DD tree i need to get to tier 10 right now) and BB's more (though the only tier X BB i have right now is Montana) though i must admit i am loving my Des Moines since i have it, that thing can do some crazy damage and im really enjoying it, which is rather surprising since i never was a CA player lol. Not sure what tier x to get next though. but i have most at tier 8+.

 

YOu know that this post you qouted was not intended to you? we have on this topis guy who does not have 50 match on CV-s but is expert in them....it is solo yolo noob who gets recket by CV and needs to cry on forum. Problem is that all his arguments (ok he can not use better because of his age - 12 ) are aposulty invalid.....same as somebod would claim EARTH Is FLAT:::EARTH IS FLAT...and as proof he would "quete" Bible......

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

Here is a very simple example that even you should be able to understand:

 

1x ship type A is on team red and 1x ship type A is on team blue. Team blue wins, server WR for ship type A is 50%.

 

3x ship type A is on team red and 3x ship type A is on team blue. Team red wins, server WR for ship type A is 50%.

 

1x ship type A is on team red and 0x ship type A is on team blue. Team red wins, server WR for ship type A is 100%.

 

2x ship type A is on team red and 1x ship type A is on team blue. Team blue wins, server WR for ship type A is 33%.

 

 

THEREFORE IF YOU ALWAYS HAVE THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF CVs PER TEAM ON BOTH SIDES [MIRROR MM; DO YOU GET IT NOW??!!] THE WINRATE FOR ALL CVs OF ONE TIER TOGETHER IS 50%. THEREFORE WR SHOWS AT BEST WHICH CV OF ONE TIER IS BETTER.

 

I dont even know why I am disucssing with you anymore. It has no point at all, just kill me right now.

 

You have problem with reasoning...right? 

 

yes you have allways same number of CV per side

Yes you allwas have MAX +-1 (ussualy your MORROR MM) number of DDs per side

 

it has nothing to do with winrate of them or their OP/UP.

 

dmg ship can do has very little translation to winrate and OP/UP status of ship.

 

the thing that is importat what that ship do....

 

can CV cap?....NO

can CV push.....NO (can not go near stacked ship due to passive outplay)

Can CV defend push....NO (same as above)

 

WHAT CV DO?...buthurt solo yolo players and does little to win/lose scenario for battle.

 

Higher the skill of teams, lesser the CV role is.

 

CV hunts noob....CV rekts noobs....noobs cry on forum...and it led us to you

[159Hunter]

 

It has been mentioned in literally every 5th post above you, WR is pointless to discuss due to CV mirror MM. Carrier WR only shows which nation´s CVs are better.

 

It has also been mentioned that every ship ingame has a individual XP factor, thus XP cant be compared.

 

Also player numbers or in other words popularity =/= performance.

 

 

 

All 3 things have been mentioned several times in this thread alone, still you dare to post such nonsense. You are like the DD players that go to the 1 line in epicenter matches and report their "noob" team afterwards.

 

 

Did you even read what I posted next to the WR numbers? Guess not, my only conclusion was that IJN CV is better than US CV for winrating. So even though US cv deal massive damage that doesn't make them win ( because subpar to IJN CV ).

As for XP: it is the sole common driver, as every captain wheter he is CV or BB or DD or CL needs the same amount of XP to get a next rank. So if you gain less XP on CV captain they progress slower.

Since you seem so smart, what is your explanation for the very low cv numbers?

 

 

You are the one posting nonsense as well btw. You can't seem to accept that CVs deal more damage than other classes. Or to put it in your words 'every ship ingame has an individual damage factor, thus damage can't be compared' ( See what I did here, I post the exact same thing as you and I'm pretty sure that now you'll claim that I post rubbish and know nothing ).

 

 

You are the one posting nonsense because:

- You only post one set of stats to try to prove your point ( are you a politician btw ? )

- You have no experience playing cv

- Your stats show 700 matches are in Atago, a tier VIII cruiser that is widely known to have rubbish AA ( no high tier US CL experience ) and your most played BB line is the IJN one, again widely known to have the worst AA of all BB lines. So ofcourse you don't agree that high tier AA is too strong, you don't play any high tier AA ships...

[Gaunter_O_Dimm_]

 

Laughable. Please show me your magical tricks, especially this one "after the AA buffs CVs never deal any damage aginst me anymore".

 

Also you never played any T9 or T10 match in a ship that is not a CV, "u can not understand utill u play them".

 

Regarding my stats, I hid them a week ago, I simply dont like XVM mods. Therefore warships.today cant show you the latest numbers, but ofc you cant trust those numbers. I hacked WGs database and API last week, made my stats super good, then let warships.today save them and after that I reverted the changes in WG´s database again, so they will never find out.

 

BLAH BLAH BLAH, show your stats!!!!!!! It was never my point about your stats that you are a bad player but it is absolutely clear to anyone that plays CVs that u have 0 understanding of CV play(your stats show that) and u are just mad when they deal damage to you. If u play CVs u understand how easy it is to avoid getting hit by them, if u get striked in the current state of the game (with the insane AA soup)and if  u arent a DD u seriusly fucked up your positioning.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

 

, if u get striked in the current state of the game (with the insane AA soup)and if  u arent a DD u seriusly fucked up your positioning.

 

Allleeeluujaaaahhhhh!!!

 

P.S.

And eaven if you are dd and play t9 or t 10 USA you have magic button called "you cv hurt me no no" that last 30 seconds

[Tigdam]

High tier AA is annoying and when it comes to anything USA truly a pain at high tiers.

For USA carriers their fighter setup kill the enjoyment and are a cop out way to win a match, no sense of skill, fairness or of sportsmanship. I've got 0 issue with being outplayed, a duel between carriers is one of the most exciting and difficult plays in world of warships but when you're in a Taiho up against an Essex who's chosen all fighter improvement perks and the fighter set up its not about player skills in any way its literally a case of the unbalanced aspects of the game and in it boils down to a case of doing as much damage as possible before your aircraft are destroyed. When the idea of player skills and tatics becomes a non issue and it boils down to unbalanced machanics then it saps the enjoyment out completely (unless you have a truly incompetent  enemy player who sits unprotected as spawn and you pour two diver bombers followed by three torpedo bombers into him and earn liquidator then its entertaining but that only happened when your carrier is INCOMPETENT)

As for AA yes we all know that historically the USA line was heavily focused in AA defence which is fair enough but add in AA cooldowns and it can be a real buzz kill sometimes though I agree it needs to be reduced there is nothing like nailing a full health desmoin with its AA cooldown active!

When it comes to the Royal Navy line from my experiences they don't appear to be anywhere near as much of an issue as the usa lines, I'd much rather face a Minotaur than a Des moin.

The carrier lines in general aren't very balanced even at high tiers, there is a hell of a lot of room for improvement but wargaming isn't prepared to make the adjustments that the majority of CV players want to be made so as unfortunate as it is that's that.

[Warhawk1984]

AA is still stupidly strong at high tiers a tier 8 cv in a tier 10 game you might as well go back to port, you wont get close to the bb's or cruisers even the dd's will take half your flight.

 

i know they "nefted" aa range and rating but it makes no difference cv's at high tiers are useless yet if your in a tier 6 cv fighting 4-6 there aa is so bad your immune to most ships.

 

needs a complete rethink with the aa damage

[El2aZeR]

[Warhawk1984]

they say to search for previous post instead of starting a new one, and you bring that pic up, fair play it is a resurrection of a old topic, is that what we are suppose to do?

 

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

is that what we are suppose to do?

 

Certainly not when it is over 2 years old. I mean come on, the rework didn't even exist back then.

There is a pinned thread about the CV rework here:

 

I expect mods to close this topic soon™.

[CptBarney]

R.i.p ladz

 

smoll thread.

[OldschoolGaming_YouTube]

How can the AA be insane when CV s strike Woosters, Des Moines and Minos all the time? These ships Were no fly zones back in the day but no one is safe any more.

[Admiral_Noif]

AA is fine in T8 and below, but in T9/T10 AA is god insane OP, especially for T8 CVs. That why I usually skip T10 mm if I play on T8 CV = No fun at all.