A tactic I don't understand . So why?

[ColonelPete]

In the meantime the group that spawned north has a 50/50 chance of getting wiped out by the enemy that spawned north if both sides duke it out.

 

That is exactly the reason you do it. Losing 50% of the time is not a good success rate. I have seen too often teams lose that were numerical superior, but were on the wrong side of the map.

And combining fleets gives you more firepower, makes focus fire easier and in case of CVs in game makes air defense easier.

[pra3y]

 

That is exactly the reason you do it. Losing 50% of the time is not a good success rate. I have seen too often teams lose that were numerical superior, but were on the wrong side of the map.

And combining fleets gives you more firepower, makes focus fire easier and in case of CVs in game makes air defense easier.

 

The problem is combining firepower takes awhile and the enemy can take advantage of that "awhile" and you'll still end up with a situation where you will lose.

 

a) Standard. Friendly BB said lets combine fleet. We grouped up but still loss as the enemy fleet was faster and reacted faster than us and hit us from 2 different directions.

 

b) Domination. Friendly Aoba camped at the rocks near the upward pointing green arrow in the previous picture and camps there while me in fuso, another BB, 1 dd and a low tier cruiser contest C. South side enemy all pushed together, killing off the DD and low tier cruiser the other BB and me. Aoba escaped to the other side with full life and we lost the game in the end.

 

c) Domination. Wyoming went from North spawn towards South spawn right at the start if the game while everyone else North contested A. Everyone else North got slaughtered. Wyoming then turns back after reaching the south spawn as the south spawn decided to head North. Wyoming essentially spent about 10min sailing up and down the channel doing nothing. Lost the game.

 

For me its better to combine the firepower at where you spawn as the chances of winning will be higher than having 1 less ship with you as its easier for the enemy to overwhelm you that way.

[ColonelPete]

Bad teams will lose. Better teams should win and not lose because there is nobody at base.

Unless your team sleeps, the enemy will not be faster.

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

TLDR: Win and contest whatever side you spawn at?

[Rozbrus]

I stopped asking such questions after seeing a Kongo driving right through the middle between those two islands on Two Brothers just to die a minute later. No wonder I spent all my reports during first two games every day...

[pra3y]

Bad teams will lose. Better teams should win and not lose because there is nobody at base.

Unless your team sleeps, the enemy will not be faster.

 

Can a Bogue or Wyoming out run an Omaha when they go through the middle? Adjusting your course through the channel slows you down plus Straits is a map where tier 4-6 ships play on and most of them have pretty slow speed especially the BBs, US CVs and low tier CAs. Even if your team doesn't sleep, enemy ships can either catch up or outrun you.

 

The problem for me when I'm on Straits is that winning a match would depend more on individual players. I've seen/experienced enough "combined group' tactic on that map to know that it wouldn't work, no matter the mode. Sure maybe in 1/2 games out of 10 it'll work but most of the games I win on Straits is from the tactic Negativvv mention, just contest at whatever spawn you spawn at and deal with the other side after you've dealt with your side.

 

 

[Agantas]

A single BB doing that is stupid - but there is method to this madness.

Basically, imagine if the whole Southern spawn (save for a couple ships, likely DDs, playing delaying tactics and making cap harder) does that. What situation do we end with? A bunch of pretty confused red DDs are at capture point B. And at tiers this map comes up they have relatively short effective range (even if can shoot further) and are pretty slow. In the meantime green BBs have just circled the mountain. What happens now?

 - ships originally spawned at A-spawn are engaged with ships from enemy North spawn

 - ships originally spawned at B-spawn are behind them and closing in with support

This maneuver does mean that the B-spawn effectively enters battle with significant delay BUT it potentially allows the team to regroup, dispatch North-spawned enemies and proceed South from secured capture point A, with significant ship advantage.

 

In the end this might work or not and the more complicated the tactic, the bigger the chance that people will mess it up. Also, it really works better from East spawn since you can go North and emerge from between the islands to contest middle cap and enter combat quicker. I definitely wouldn't recommend trying anything like that if spawned on the West side of the map, even with fast ships like Kongo. But, well, there you have the theory behind the sightseeing vertical course some people seem to like to take.

 

Assuming that you can do this faster than their unopposed south flanks your north through the strait in the middle, while your squad might still be in transit. You essentially need all twelve ships to play this together in a coordinated manner, which can be very difficult to achieve, given that this is a tier 4-6 map. It can work, but the plain old both teams charge at their own side is much simpler to pull off. You are giving up a lot of map control by going through those side straits with the bottom/top part of the team.

[Lord_WC]

It's actually a valid tactic if you are in a faster BB.

North spawn is 4 or 5, south is the rest. If one ship goes from south to north then the following happens (all else being equal):

 

If north was 5 spawn:

original north win chance - 5v5 - 50%

original south win chance - 7v7 - 50%

total win chance - 50%

 

after relocating north win chance - 6v5 - 54,5%

after relocating south win chance - 6v7 - 46,2%

total win chance - 50,4%

 

If north was 4 spawn the situation is even better:

after relocating north win chance - 5v4 - 55,6%

after relocating south win chance - 7v8 - 46,7%

total win chance - 51,9%

 

If you spawn on the upper parts of the south spawn in a reasonably fast ship you are actually having higher global win chance by relocating to the north side to have a numerical advantage there. In other words you are more likely to win the north flank than losing the south by moving one ship over.

[Capra76]

It's actually a valid tactic if you are in a faster BB.

 

 

I'm fairly sure your maths is completely wrong, you seem to be treating the relative number of ships (6/11 = 54.5%) as being the win chance, which it clearly isn't.

 

Let's look at it another way, lets assume that the larger force always wins, in which case your 5 v 4 sinks 4 ships at the cost of 7 of your own, which is not a good trade, in fact it would make more sense for the smaller force to re-position south.

 

All of which of course ignores the fact that even the fastest battleship is going to be out of the game for a long time whilst it moves north.

[Eviscerador]

People usually start any domination game just forfeiting one of the caps to the enemy, because reasons.

 

I've been in so many games where one of the caps is just uncontested for 10 minutes... but hey, "taktiks!"

[ColonelPete]

ColonelPete, on 11 January 2017 - 04:52 AM, said:

Bad teams will lose. Better teams should win and not lose because there is nobody at base.

Unless your team sleeps, the enemy will not be faster.

 

Can a Bogue or Wyoming out run an Omaha when they go through the middle? Adjusting your course through the channel slows you down plus Straits is a map where tier 4-6 ships play on and most of them have pretty slow speed especially the BBs, US CVs and low tier CAs. Even if your team doesn't sleep, enemy ships can either catch up or outrun you.

 

The problem for me when I'm on Straits is that winning a match would depend more on individual players. I've seen/experienced enough "combined group' tactic on that map to know that it wouldn't work, no matter the mode. Sure maybe in 1/2 games out of 10 it'll work but most of the games I win on Straits is from the tactic Negativvv mention, just contest at whatever spawn you spawn at and deal with the other side after you've dealt with your side.

 

 

 

Bogue and Langley are the only ships were I might reconsider the approach, unless your team spawns uneven. Friendly BB getting attacked by enemy cruisers is not really a problem, but a pairing that is very favourable for your team.

 

People usually start any domination game just forfeiting one of the caps to the enemy, because reasons.

 

I've been in so many games where one of the caps is just uncontested for 10 minutes... but hey, "taktiks!"

 

Yes, that is a basic tactic for thousands of years.

Generals do not attack all enemies at once, but focus their forces on select positions.

[Lord_WC]

I'm fairly sure your maths is completely wrong, you seem to be treating the relative number of ships (6/11 = 54.5%) as being the win chance, which it clearly isn't.

That's why I said all else being equal. And yes, in the long run a 6v5 will be about 54,5% WR, since matchmaker is full random.

[RobS80]

I particularly love it on two brothers domination where all the BBs swap sides and become effecively useless for 5-10 minutes before ultimately succumbing and dying with a scream of 'omg noob team' :/

[Eviscerador]

Yes, that is a basic tactic for thousands of years.

Generals do not attack all enemies at once, but focus their forces on select positions.

 

Generals scout first the enemy positions and THEN, apply their forces on the best position.

 

Only bad generals commit their forces to battle without knowing what they will face if they have other options.

[_interceptor_80]

If this BB is tier 5 and see tier 7 BBs on other side spotted he just dont want to get wrecked on battle start (free kill for enemy) We will never knew...

[Desharp]

I particularly love it on two brothers domination where all the BBs swap sides and become effecively useless for 5-10 minutes before ultimately succumbing and dying with a scream of 'omg noob team' :/

 

or when a DD leaves one side, to join the other two DDs on the other.  That always invites pressure, but especially in standard mode.

[Lord_WC]

Let's look at it another way, lets assume that the larger force always wins, in which case your 5 v 4 sinks 4 ships at the cost of 7 of your own, which is not a good trade, in fact it would make more sense for the smaller force to re-position south.

 

All of which of course ignores the fact that even the fastest battleship is going to be out of the game for a long time whilst it moves north.

 

That's a very stupid assumption - did you won all your matches when you got first blood? If you actually would keep track of it, I'm reasonably sure that you'd end up with 51,7% win rate only. Having a numerical advantage doesn't mean winning is guaranteed, far from it.

Yeah, that's the whole point - you will crush a 5v4 harder since you have 25% advantage than a 7v8 since it's only a 14% advantage only.

 

Lemminging on one side is not in any shape or form a better tactic than it is in WoT. Relocating south means you give up a cap uncontested for having better chance at contesting a cap. I'm sorry, but that's a stronk tektik. So I think next time before you start spamming WTF on chat and pinging like mad when you see something you don't understand give that guy the benefit of doubt - maybe he can play better than you and he knows exactly what he is doing.

[SovietFury43]

Trying to figure out why BB players do something is futile. Their actions are usually driven by pure unadulterated terror rather then any sort of rational planning. 

 

In this case their actions are driven by the idea that their odds of survival are better in a larger group.

[SovietFury43]

I stopped asking such questions after seeing a Kongo driving right through the middle between those two islands on Two Brothers just to die a minute later. No wonder I spent all my reports during first two games every day...

 

Only one Kongo? 

 

I actually once saw a division of 3 BBs try that! I crapyou not.

 

"Hey guys i am sure the enemy team wont expect 3 BBs emerging throught that pass!" *incoming torpedo sound*

[Capra76]

 

That's a very stupid assumption - did you won all your matches when you got first blood?

 

The assumption is there for explanation purposes, I'd hoped that was obvious.

[Deckeru_Maiku]

Seriously, sometimes I question the future of mankind seeing the stupidity levels of some of the players.

 

Well, there's a reason for this.

 

There is a fixed amount of intelligence available for the human race. The more humans there are, the less intelligence is available for each of them.

Then consider, that the intelligence isn't given to all humans equally. There might be lots of super intelligent children being born in regions of the world, where they don't have a chance to reach their fifth year. Then there are the few cases of Stephen Hawkings. Then there are the WoWs players.

 

In the end it just means, that the really intelligent ones living under the proper conditions to change something to the better just have to carry harder!

 

[ColonelPete]

 

Generals scout first the enemy positions and THEN, apply their forces on the best position.

 

Only bad generals commit their forces to battle without knowing what they will face if they have other options.

That is what DDs and CVs should do.

[thestaggy]

I'll head north/south based on the disposition of ships in the area I spawn in. I've been in battles on this map where 4 ships spawned in the north and 8 in the south. Like heck I was pushing a cap with 3 ships as support. I've been the BB that rocks up at a cap with no/minimal support, only to be confronted with 5 or more enemy ships that focus on me.

 

Also, a battleship pushing through the middle can run in to a cruiser/DD ambush if he tries to navigate it at the start of the battle. The long way is the safest way if you want to link up with the main body of your team.

[XTHD]

Because DONT TRY FIGHTING THEM IN OPEN WATER GUISE. Next gen potactics by Cleveland in a T5-6 battle

 

 

 

 

 

Actually it is a very good idea for a Cleveland to go to the area that he pinged from that spawn. So it is you being the potato here.

[Taliesn]

Rozbrus, on 11 January 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

I stopped asking such questions after seeing a Kongo driving right through the middle between those two islands on Two Brothers just to die a minute later. No wonder I spent all my reports during first two games every day...

 

Only one Kongo? 

 

I actually once saw a division of 3 BBs try that! I crapyou not.

 

"Hey guys i am sure the enemy team wont expect 3 BBs emerging throught that pass!" *incoming torpedo sound*

 

Had a game where ships from both teams took turns at giving a go at the strait. At least 2 on either side. No BBs that I recall though but still.

 

Had another in which a BB went halfway through, had second thoughts and finally reversed back. That's a full 2-3 minutes of doing nothing.

 

On the OP subject, this tactic usually tips the balance to the other team, assuming they are not incompetent in the extreme. If they don't push it might work but if they drive straight east (or west) they'll find a numerically inferior enemy whilst the offending BB is doing absolutely nothing for minutes. I've been there, spawned a bit late on a Wyoming only to find most of the southern group was moving North. Our slow CV got sunk just before the enemy team focused on me. I didn't last long.