WG fix how 'chat reports' are being handled as current system is broken

[mtm78]

edit: -> excellent follow up thread with well written proposal which would improve upon this system a lot -> http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/71032-revised-report-system-suggestion-from-a-programmer/

 

Every game today there was some 'player' who behaved like a moron. And as that affects my own enjoyment I will try and coach them into being less of a baddie. Sadly, Dunning-Kruger effect makes them blind to their own stupidity so in return they just feel 'offended' how I can't see what kind of great players they in fact are.

 

Now WG has lied in the past that chat bans are not automated, that reports are manually checked. But as I said that's a clear lie. If they were I wouldn't get a chat ban for telling a Gneisenau who spend the entire game around the blue line he was useless. Yes useless. That's not an insult, it's an accurate description of a blue line hugging German BB. 

 

And his buddy in the Nurnberg who was shooting torpedo's from 10km away, with me in my DD between him and his 'targets' was someone who I should be able to describe as an utter uninformed/clueless player without getting a ffin chat ban for it.

 

Don't believe the lies, WG does NOT check reports manually. And trying to appeal something as utterly ffin broken as this 'system' to support has no chance as the bans only last one day which means support won't even get to look at it while it's active. 

 

Karma system removed from forums because +-1 was 'toxic' as community couldn't self moderate ( their own words, NOT MINE ). Next move -> introduce system where 'really bad players' who don't like learning the game / the game mechanics can crap all day in game and if someone says something they don't like -> -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 

 

Thanks for reading, I'll be playing some other game for now ffs...

 

edit:  I said this further down the thread but I think it should have been in my opening post as it would have been easier for people to get why I feel it's broken. 

 

The reason for the thread is the chat ban system, and how flawed it is. I would really like for WG to change it so that for instance reports from a single person don't stack, and them adding a system which actually checks with a word filter if someone is putting questionable content in the chat ( or something like that ). As indicated multiple times: getting a chat ban for going ballistic at some 'player' who just team killed you by accident ( happened.. I admit  it  ) well yeah remove ability to chat for a day since not only the guy who did it but a majority of the team reported me over it. I'm aok with that, there has to be something which can prevent people from abusing chat system IF the majority agrees it is abuse. 

 

But not this system where totally clueless players can keep pressing that -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 and it accumulates. Karma I couldn't care less about, but chat bans are highly annoying. And not warranted, when they are being handed out for trying to ensure an enjoyable gaming environment for the majority of players. 

 

[Corvi]

That was quick. How much battles did we play ? 4-5 ? Well, im unbanned since 2pm today, lets see how long it lasts :o

[xxNihilanxx]

[mtm78]

That was quick. How much battles did we play ? 4-5 ? Well, im unbanned since 2pm today, lets see how long it lasts :o

 

The thing which made me really mad ( trust me I am mad now.. ) is that I said absolutely nothing wrong for those two people to report me and therefore to gain a chat ban. The Gneisenau spend the entire game at the blue line, and even at the end with almost full hp he refused to come into the enemy cap to help against a FIji which came back to stop me capping, and instead he parked his BB behind an island ( again.. ).

 

And the Nurnberg has 6km torps and he shoots them in front of me at enemies at 10km away ( and moving away ), WTF am I not going to say anything about that? 

 

No... WG punishes people who actually learn the game and play it as it should be played, but if those people try to inform the 'casuals' about how game mechanics work they can just press that big -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 button to show they don't give a damn about learning. It's not that frikkin hard right? 6km is less then 10km ( plus moving away )? And, there is an allied DD between me and those enemies I can never ever hit anyway? That's not hard to understand right?

 

Or being at the blue line not doing anything the whole game but sniping in a top tier German BB, refusing to come in a cap and instead going to hide behind an island? To hard? 

 

WG should punish those people ,force them to friggin learn to play the game, keep them in PVE for all I care, but not punish me for trying to secure my own enjoyment of the game by not having 'players' like that continuing to play as they do...  

[Pastaiolo]

If you get angry about what happens in the game you are taking it too seriously.

And the forum is not really a place to complain about how WG treated you unfairly all the time, i am sure there are people in the WG staff or support itself to contact to ask further informations of what triggered your chat ban. It's not like we can verify either what the actual conversation was like.

 

Furthemore, bad players has always been part of any game and always will be. The sooner you manage to live with them, the sooner you will enjoy the game a bit more

[DJ_Die]

I know exactly how you feel mtm.... Its like that time when i was chat banned and still got reported 2 times after one game because i played well... Makes sense, right?

[mtm78]

If you get angry about what happens in the game you are taking it too seriously.

 

And the forum is not really a place to complain about how WG treated you unfairly all the time, i am sure there are people in the WG staff or support itself to contact to ask further informations of what triggered your chat ban. It's not like we can verify either what the actual conversation was like.

 

Furthemore, bad players has always been part of any game and always will be. The sooner you manage to live with them, the sooner you will enjoy the game a bit more

 

I take it serious enough to learn 6km < 10km.

 

And there is no point in appealing chat bans they last only one day, so tomorrow it will be gone again way before anything would happen anyway. My complaint isn't about this single occurrence, it's about the 'system' which is just clearly broken.

 

Bad players, fine, but who says bad players should be able to press the -1 button each time they are being told something they don't like? How come WG can't see that it's actually worse then the -+1 we had on the forums? How come they claim community can't self moderate, and then introduce an unmoderated chat ban system in the game where people who know absolutely nothing about game mechanics ( or math... 6 < 10 ..... ) are allowed to 'moderate' those trying to get them to stop ruining the gameplay experience for everyone else. That's what's wrong with this system. 

 

[loppantorkel]

I think the Karma system is there to MM the nice players from the baddies. I've never seen you in a game mtm

 

[Shirakami_Kon]

Hm, reminds me of when I cared and tried to give advices or help someone by warning enemies where he was not aiming/looking in an attempt to help the rest of the team if I was sunk earlier. Never had a chat ban for that, but meh, I got that there was no point in it.

 

Now I'm just a stupid guy that fortunately mentalized himself that he's just 1 of the 12 random guys in my team and could forgot about trying to maintain a decent win rate and tries to do all I can to the enemy team making it the easies I can for the rest of my team to end the rest of enemies? But trying to help someone, give advice or try to correct some bad action during the battle? I learned that there's no point in it, so try to calm down and take it easy man. There's nothing we can do about it so let's try not to rage about it for nothing.

 

[Pastaiolo]

They said that Karma in game will be reworked in the future, so yeah.

 

And it's because i have seen you talking about those chat bans already different times on the forum, i didn't feel it was really needed to see it yet again in another topic.

 

As for the bad players, you ignore them, they report you and you don't get chat banned. Even if they are playing bad, and they are, i am sure you can hold off from writing in the chat at them. That's what i do, i'll rather keep my opinions in my head or throw them at the walls of my room if i really can't hold it You are in no position to tell anyone how to play. Or better, sure, you can know how to be more effective. But if someone wants to play bad, or just plays bad, or doesn't understand the mechanics AND doesn't want to listen to you, there is nothing you can ever do for that. 

[MaxxyNL]

- Karma system should be reworked

- Chat system should be reworked

- Report system should be reworked

 

Too much options for trolls to do fake reports, give neg. karma and/or abuse the chat....

 

WG Stronk Programming Skills 

[mtm78]

I think the Karma system is there to MM the nice players from the baddies. I've never seen you in a game mtm

 

Tbh, I am not always nice, I admit that. But to these two players I didn't say anything which was actually insultive or even with bad intents. I told the Gneisenau "omg stop hugging the blue line and come help' and I told the Nurnberg: 'omg.. you got 6km torps don't launch them in front of me you can't even reach them'.  Then I want to ask the Gneisenau later in the game to come help me cap, and I see I got a chat ban. I get out of the game and see I been reported twice

 

I don't mind getting a chat report if I call someone something which is actually an insult, and sometimes I do I won't claim otherwise. But that doesn't mean the system is in any way shape or form not utterly broken if those two people can report me for saying what I did and that that results in a chat ban. It's just mind boggling 

 

They said that Karma in game will be reworked in the future, so yeah.

 

And it's because i have seen you talking about those chat bans already different times on the forum, i didn't feel it was really needed to see it yet again in another topic.

 

As for the bad players, you ignore them, they report you and you don't get chat banned. Even if they are playing bad, and they are, i am sure you can hold off from writing in the chat at them. That's what i do, i'll rather keep my opinions in my head or throw them at the walls of my room if i really can't hold it  You are in no position to tell anyone how to play. Or better, sure, you can know how to be more effective. But if someone wants to play bad, or just plays bad, or doesn't understand the mechanics AND doesn't want to listen to you, there is nothing you can ever do for that. 

 

Ikr. But the frustration, especially from people torpedoing from second line with torps which won't even reach.. and that at tier VI with a Nurnberg. Come on, that is infuriating. And if 'plays poorly' actually had some effect, like if you get to many you're forced to play some PVE games or something, I would just use that as 'outlet'. Just like these baddies use their reports if they are told something which doesn't coincide with their own self image, because they KNOW it actually does something.

 

And how am I supposed to know they are actually that much of a 'casual' they don't WANT to learn? They might be just clueless, but willing to learn. Why should I not try to get them to suck less, only because of WG's system being broken and making that punishable? Seems something is utterly broken there then...

 

Plays Poorly afaik doesn't even affect their karma rating ffs. So WG caters to the baddies being able to actually do something which has an in game effect, and the report option which should do the opposite is there just for the lulz. Which is NOT actually funny  

[RobS80]

I had 5 karma.

 

I pointed out politely that a tier 9 CV circling his planes over his own CV for a full 8 minutes of the game was less than helpful to our teams chances of a win, boom I am chat banned. After game, no reports listed at all.

 

Last 2 days did not even play. WTF.

[Slezman]

Some strong words are necessary in chat. I learned lot of things from it. I was called idiot couple of times in my first battles, and since I really do not like being called an idiot, I seriously tried my best to avoid doing things making others to name me like that. I think I succeeded

 

[Ast3lan]

MTM you used to be a reasonable guy a couple months ago, i think the stats are starting to get to you.

 

If you really care about chatbans and people caring about what you say ... oh lol. 

[mtm78]

Some strong words are necessary in chat. I learned lot of things from it. I was called idiot couple of times in my first battles, and since I really do not like being called an idiot, I seriously tried my best to avoid doing things making others to name me like that. I think I succeeded

 

You sir deserve a big shiny 

 

MTM you used to be a reasonable guy a couple months ago, i think the stats are starting to get to you.

 

If you really care about chatbans and people caring about what you say ... oh lol. 

 

It has nothing to do with stats, it has to do with utterly clueless players in game ( and forums lately, with their 'realism' arguments which only apply to what they want them to apply to ... the same people who might want to make it look like it's a 'stats' thing in this thread you know...  ) using the report system when they hear something which doesn't coincide with their own self image ( of not being clueless ). And about WG actually giving them a tool for it, while they removed that tool from the forums because it was 'broken'.  

[cro_pwr]

My most memorable reports were 7 reports because I am a haxor that managed to hit reversing Nurnberg from 10 km away, and 6 reports after 6 kills in Fubuki (someone was not impressed).

But that said, I'm still sitting on 74 karma, after getting few reports here and there when I get pissed because of... well... people playing really well

I mean, you don't have to be 1337 MLG player, but I think some guys in this game have a Post-it on their monitor with "Don't forget to breathe" on it...

[Nechrom]

If I'm not able to tell teams how bad they are, then I wouldn't play at all.

 

That's the least I can expect after getting AIDS from teams like these:

[shockinhockin]

 

 

 

You don't even have to say anything to lose karma 

Yesterday I simply won a game and lost karma I was top of the table sunk 5 ships in my trusty warspite and had a great game. However my mistake was that the 5 ships I sank where all in 2 diff divisions so natually I lost 5 karma points as apparently if they are sunk the the other player must be cheating or something. 

It's a fairly daft system but for some odd reason it really irritates me when I loose karma in this way because of butt hurt fools like this.

[Ast3lan]

 

You sir deserve a big shiny 

 

 

It has nothing to do with stats, it has to do with utterly clueless players in game ( and forums lately, with their 'realism' arguments which only apply to what they want them to apply to ... the same people who might want to make it look like it's a 'stats' thing in this thread you know...  ) using the report system when they hear something which doesn't coincide with their own self image ( of not being clueless ). And about WG actually giving them a tool for it, while they removed that tool from the forums because it was 'broken'.  

 

Ok i follow you.. but then again from my perspective, why the worry? I got banned already countless times ( some deserved other not really ) and i can tell you its not even worth the trouble. Bad players will remain bad, they dont care. Heck i find myself wondering sometimes if this people are people at all and not some bots because the MM couldn't find players for the tier one is currently playing.

 

Honestly WG doesn't care, if they did, they had plenty of time to think about something and put it in place since their WoT experience, the fact that they dont just shows that the devs have more *coff*pressing*coff* matters to attend to. ( like playing roullete or something.

 

 

[loppantorkel]

 

Tbh, I am not always nice, I admit that. But to these two players I didn't say anything which was actually insultive or even with bad intents. I told the Gneisenau "omg stop hugging the blue line and come help' and I told the Nurnberg: 'omg.. you got 6km torps don't launch them in front of me you can't even reach them'.  Then I want to ask the Gneisenau later in the game to come help me cap, and I see I got a chat ban. I get out of the game and see I been reported twice

 

I don't mind getting a chat report if I call someone something which is actually an insult, and sometimes I do I won't claim otherwise. But that doesn't mean the system is in any way shape or form not utterly broken if those two people can report me for saying what I did and that that results in a chat ban. It's just mind boggling 

Well, I agree. I can't say I'm the most pleasant person in chat at times either, but it seems, for some reason people aren't reporting me when I'm in that mood. I suspect it's a bug where the reports on me aren't reaching the servers or that WG graciously has decided to favour me   No chat bans so far.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

they should remove karma at all , and the chat bans , oh boy all potatos that play bad  poor , or camp all can report you for true say and , boom - chat baned

 

[daki]

 

Now WG has lied in the past that chat bans are not automated, that reports are manually checked. But as I said that's a clear lie. If they were I wouldn't get a chat ban for telling a Gneisenau who spend the entire game around the blue line he was useless. Yes useless. That's not an insult, it's an accurate description of a blue line hugging German BB. 

 

And his buddy in the Nurnberg who was shooting torpedo's from 10km away, with me in my DD between him and his 'targets' was someone who I should be able to describe as an utter uninformed/clueless player without getting a ffin chat ban for it.

 

 

 

I have to say that I do not recall that WG said they are doing it manually - excluding maybe the reports sent via support.

Lets be honest, can you imagine the army of people needed to check all those "misbehavior in chat" clicks?

 

That being said, it seems that the biggest insult you can throw at a camper is to say that he is "useless".

In my case that is the only "insult" I ever use (yes, I am a nice guy in chat ), and I have received tons of reports for using it.

Luckily never enough to be chat-banned though

Imho the biggest issue with the reporting system is that a single user can throw at you the full 7 reports and they all count.

On several occasions I had from -5 to -7  karma after a camping match where I dared pointing out the failure in playstyle of certain teammates...

 

Unfortunately campers strongly believe that camping is the only right playstyle, so I know that it is a bit pointless calling them out.

 

On the occasion I received -7, the guy in a BB was hugging the border almost the entire game. I managed 2 full caps, 2 enemy DDs killed and some average damage, dying mid-game due to depleted HP pool during cap fights. With about 250 points advantage and 2 caps in our hands I was rather certain of our win, however I watched to my dismay how that BB (and 2 others tbh) managed to basically snatch the defeat from the jaws of victory.

After commenting "why so useless pls go for caps or we lose" he even wrote "L2P noob look at your pathetic KDR".

So the camper even alt-tabed during the game to check my stats...

I checked him after the game and sure enough there was a mainly BB player with 46% wr, 6.8 average tier, 28k avg damage and 3.2 kdr in almost 3k battles.

 

In case of such players I doubt that there are any types of actions, punishments or mechanics to be implemented to change their playstyle so there is little option but to endure the match and hope the next one will be better.

 

[mtm78]

I thought they once said reports where checked manually I might be wrong

 

 

Ok i follow you.. but then again from my perspective, why the worry? I got banned already countless times ( some deserved other not really ) and i can tell you its not even worth the trouble. Bad players will remain bad, they dont care. Heck i find myself wondering sometimes if this people are people at all and not some bots because the MM couldn't find players for the tier one is currently playing.

 

Honestly WG doesn't care, if they did, they had plenty of time to think about something and put it in place since their WoT experience, the fact that they dont just shows that the devs have more *coff*pressing*coff* matters to attend to. ( like playing roullete or something.

 

But then other times I say something and people actually listen. 

 

I don't mind getting reports would I actually insult people for the soul reason of insulting them. That is what the system is for, and for a good reason ( my 9y old has an account, doesn't play atm but still.. ). But telling someone he is useless doing what he is doing is not something which should lead to a chat ban. If people like that report you the system should automatically put you on their ignore list and that should be it. Especially if only one or two people report you for something you said to them alone. 

 

Now I had games where I actually called someone some quite insultive terms, and that result in multiple people to report me over it. Those are the instances where a chat restriction would make sense. But not for people who just don't like being told something which no one else finds insulting?

 

they should remove karma at all , and the chat bans , oh boy all potatos that play bad  poor , or camp all can report you for true say and , boom - chat baned

 

Or rework it, which they indicated they will. Well the karma system that is.

 

The reason for the thread is the chat ban system, and how flawed it is. I would really like for WG to change it so that for instance reports from a single person don't stack, and them adding a system which actually checks with a word filter if someone is putting questionable content in the chat ( or something like that ). As indicated multiple times: getting a chat ban for going ballistic at some 'player' who just team killed you by accident ( happened.. I admit  it ) well yeah remove ability to chat for a day since not only the guy who did it but a majority of the team reported me over it. I'm aok with that, there has to be something which can prevent people from abusing chat system IF the majority agrees it is abuse. 

 

But not this system where totally clueless players can keep pressing that -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 and it accumulates. Karma I couldn't care less about, but chat bans are highly annoying. And not warranted, when they are being handed out for trying to ensure an enjoyable gaming environment for the majority of players. 

 

 

I have to say that I do not recall that WG said they are doing it manually - excluding maybe the reports sent via support.

Lets be honest, can you imagine the army of people needed to check all those "misbehavior in chat" clicks?

 

That being said, it seems that the biggest insult you can throw at a camper is to say that he is "useless".

In my case that is the only "insult" I ever use (yes, I am a nice guy in chat ), and I have received tons of reports for using it.

Luckily never enough to be chat-banned though

Imho the biggest issue with the reporting system is that a single user can throw at you the full 7 reports and they all count.

On several occasions I had from -5 to -7  karma after a camping match where I dared pointing out the failure in playstyle of certain teammates...

 

Unfortunately campers strongly believe that camping is the only right playstyle, so I know that it is a bit pointless calling them out.

 

On the occasion I received -7, the guy in a BB was hugging the border almost the entire game. I managed 2 full caps, 2 enemy DDs killed and some average damage, dying mid-game due to depleted HP pool during cap fights. With about 250 points advantage and 2 caps in our hands I was rather certain of our win, however I watched to my dismay how that BB (and 2 others tbh) managed to basically snatch the defeat from the jaws of victory.

After commenting "why so useless pls go for caps or we lose" he even wrote "L2P noob look at your pathetic KDR".

So the camper even alt-tabed during the game to check my stats...

I checked him after the game and sure enough there was a mainly BB player with 46% wr, 6.8 average tier, 28k avg damage and 3.2 kdr in almost 3k battles.

 

In case of such players I doubt that there are any types of actions, punishments or mechanics to be implemented to change their playstyle so there is little option but to endure the match and hope the next one will be better.

 

This is the perfect example! Calling someone useless should not increase the 'chat report counter' unless multiple people report you over it. If it's only the one being called useless, chances are quite big he was indeed useless, and useless might not be a compliment, the EULA \state that disrupting the gameplay enjoyment of others is not allowed. By being useless he is disrupting the gameplay enjoyment of others. That doesn't mean I want those people gone, heck I am fully aware that performance wise I need those players to 'polish my epeen' on when on the enemy team. But being called useless is something they should learn to live with, or... 

 

Some strong words are necessary in chat. I learned lot of things from it. I was called idiot couple of times in my first battles, and since I really do not like being called an idiot, I seriously tried my best to avoid doing things making others to name me like that. I think I succeeded

 

.. actually look in the mirror and try to improve so they won't be called useless anymore. 

 

To sum it up: useless is not an insult. Telling someone that shooting 6km torps at an enemy 10km away with an allied destroyer in front of you is senseless, is not an insult. Those reports should NOT cause a chat ban. And, just shutting up and not telling anyone anything, is also not the solution as Slezman here proves my point that there are instances of actually clueless people who are clueless because no one ever bothered telling them about it, and not because they don't care about learning it. 

 

[Babykim]

yeh, yeh, yeh... I hear your pain. I never say mean things in chat, never bully the noob, never ever fluently swear in five languages ... and my karma total went two-digit. Amen the system!