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Fritzblitzer

Propulsion Modification 2, some new research and results

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Alpha Tester
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TL;DR: PM2 DOES help at all speeds, WHEN YOU CHANGE THE THROTTLE. 

 

I set out to disprove this post on the NA forums: http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/87597-propulsion-mod-2-precise-effects/page__hl__propulsion__fromsearch__1

Because while that post seems thorough, it is wrong.

 

PM2 DOES help at all speeds, contrary to the seemingly thorough test in that thread.

I put my CL at half speed(17.4 knots), and then noted the time it took to get to 30 knots from 17.4 knots. With the upgrade, 15 seconds, without it well above 20. While this is known to those of us who use it a lot of players seem to think it is useless, according to the above link.

In short, the upgrade allows the ship to adjust its speed to the setting on the speed meter faster, however, there are a few situations where it doesnt help. For example:
If you have your speed set to full, and you do a sharp turn but keep the throttle at full, the ship will already be at "full" speed even when bleeding and the benefit isn't activated.

Concerning deceleration:  From 35 knots (full speed) to 17 knots (half speed), it takes 11-12 seconds with PM2. Without it, it takes the same amount of time or slightly more (hard to tell) BUT the weird thing I discovered is that the ship keeps decelerating to 16.3 knots without it, while it stops at 17 knots if you ahve it installed. To get down to 16.3 takes another second or so, and then the ship has to accelerate up to 17 knots half speed) again.

 

Clearly, the PM2 makes the ship more responsive to speed changes, even decelerations although not nearly as much as when increasing the throttle.
*edit*
none of the above has anything to do with the engine boost it gives you below 6 knots, that is just a pure Horsepower boost unrelated to this post. (but very useful, too)

Edited by Fritzblitzer
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It doesn't help you slow down faster, but it helps you reverse (go backwards) faster.

 

Example1: You're going at full speed but you want to slow down in order to dodge torps: it will NOT help you.

Example2: You're completely stopped inside smoke but you want to reverse to avoid torps: it WILL help you.

 

And yes, it will make you accellerate 50% faster starting from any speed, so you can slow down to dodge torps/shells and then speed up 50% faster than you normally would.

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Alpha Tester
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It doesn't help you slow down faster, but it helps you reverse (go backwards) faster.

 

Example1: You're going at full speed but you want to slow down in order to dodge torps: it will NOT help you.

Example2: You're completely stopped inside smoke but you want to reverse to avoid torps: it WILL help you.

 

And yes, it will make you accellerate 50% faster starting from any speed, so you can slow down to dodge torps/shells and then speed up 50% faster than you normally would.

 

Check my updated post, it does have some indirect advantages when decelerating from full to half speed too.

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Alpha Tester
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yes the propolution engine do help reverse it helps espesialy the british ships to bleed speed down faster for smoking

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I have been using the propulsion mod on Atago for a long time but most people say the rudder shift mod is better, so when i got the ARP Takao i installed the rudder shift mod and did some serious testing in the training room:

 

 

Takao (rudder shift mod)

Atago (propulsion mod)

Full speed to

full stop

30 s 30 s

Full stop to

full speed (35.6 kts)

66 s 59 s

Half speed (17.8 kts)

to full speed

56 s 53 s

Full stop to

half speed

18 s 13 s

Full stop to

34 kts

38 s 31 s

Half speed to

34 kts

29 s 25 s

Sharp turn to

34 kts 

What this means is, i was going at

full speed and turned until the speed

stabilized (at 28.4 kts for the Takao sisters)

then i just let go (stopped turning) and started

the timer. Then i stopped the timer at 34 kts.

16 s 17 s

 

Interesting findings:

 

1. Right before reaching full speed the acceleration slowed down considerably, so i decided to do some tests replacing full speed with 34 kts (which is just 1.6 kts away from full speed at 35.6 kts).

 

2. The last test shows that you don't get the benefit from the propulsion if you don't udjust the speed, even if you turn. So if you don't slow down while turning, the rudder shift mod is better.

 

3. The [full stop to 34 kts] and the [full stop to half speed] + [half speed to 34 kts] do not have the same times. (same with the full speed (35.6 kts) tests)

 I tested the [half speed to...] by setting my speed to 1/2 and letting it stabilize (at 17.8 for the Takao sisters) then i started the test.

 The fact that the times are different means that just changing the speed requires some sort of acceleration.

 

I didn't test going from full speed to half speed, but the 3rd point about changing speed always requires acceleration clearly strengthens Fritzblitzers claim that the propulsion mod could have some indirect advantage when decelerating.

 

#4

 
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Alpha Tester
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I have been using the propulsion mod on Atago for a long time but most people say the rudder shift mod is better, so when i got the ARP Takao i installed the rudder shift mod and did some serious testing in the training room:

 

 

Takao (rudder shift mod)

Atago (propulsion mod)

Full speed to

full stop

30 s 30 s

Full stop to

full speed (35.6 kts)

66 s 59 s

Half speed (17.8 kts)

to full speed

56 s 53 s

Full stop to

half speed

18 s 13 s

Full stop to

34 kts

38 s 31 s

Half speed to

34 kts

29 s 25 s

Sharp turn to

34 kts 

What this means is, i was going at

full speed and turned until the speed

stabilized (at 28.4 kts for the Takao sisters)

then i just let go (stopped turning) and started

the timer. Then i stopped the timer at 34 kts.

16 s 17 s

 

Interesting findings:

 

1. Right before reaching full speed the acceleration slowed down considerably, so i decided to do some tests replacing full speed with 34 kts (which is just 1.6 kts away from full speed at 35.6 kts).

 

2. The last test shows that you don't get the benefit from the propulsion if you don't udjust the speed, even if you turn. So if you don't slow down while turning, the rudder shift mod is better.

 

3. The [full stop to 34 kts] and the [full stop to half speed] + [half speed to 34 kts] do not have the same times. (same with the full speed (35.6 kts) tests)

 I tested the [half speed to...] by setting my speed to 1/2 and letting it stabilize (at 17.8 for the Takao sisters) then i started the test.

 The fact that the times are different means that just changing the speed requires some sort of acceleration.

 

I didn't test going from full speed to half speed, but the 3rd point about changing speed always requires acceleration clearly strengthens Fritzblitzers claim that the propulsion mod could have some indirect advantage when decelerating.

 

#4

 

 

That is in line with my findings as well. I The boost is much more significant if you indeed look at a speed a bit less than the absolute top speed. If your theoretical top speed is 40, you should measure at 38 or such. Do you have any values on deceleration that corroborates my findings?

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Nice to know. Thanks for your work. I will surely consider the PM2 more in the future.

 

I use PM2 on all DDs and most cruisers and it works just fine. Certainly handy for quick getaway from smoke or spotted when enjoying island cover.
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I decided to do some more tests

 

(here is my previous post so you can see all my tests in one post)

 

I have been using the propulsion mod on Atago for a long time but most people say the rudder shift mod is better, so when i got the ARP Takao i installed the rudder shift mod and did some serious testing in the training room:

 

 

Takao (rudder shift mod)

Atago (propulsion mod)

Full speed to

full stop

30 s 30 s

Full stop to

full speed (35.6 kts)

66 s 59 s

Half speed (17.8 kts)

to full speed

56 s 53 s

Full stop to

half speed

18 s 13 s

Full stop to

34 kts

38 s 31 s

Half speed to

34 kts

29 s 25 s

Sharp turn to

34 kts 

What this means is, i was going at

full speed and turned until the speed

stabilized (at 28.4 kts for the Takao sisters)

then i just let go (stopped turning) and started

the timer. Then i stopped the timer at 34 kts.

16 s 17 s

 

Interesting findings:

 

1. Right before reaching full speed the acceleration slowed down considerably, so i decided to do some tests replacing full speed with 34 kts (which is just 1.6 kts away from full speed at 35.6 kts).

 

2. The last test shows that you don't get the benefit from the propulsion if you don't udjust the speed, even if you turn. So if you don't slow down while turning, the rudder shift mod is better.

 

3. The [full stop to 34 kts] and the [full stop to half speed] + [half speed to 34 kts] do not have the same times. (same with the full speed (35.6 kts) tests)

 I tested the [half speed to...] by setting my speed to 1/2 and letting it stabilize (at 17.8 for the Takao sisters) then i started the test.

 The fact that the times are different means that just changing the speed requires some sort of acceleration.

 

I didn't test going from full speed to half speed, but the 3rd point about changing speed always requires acceleration clearly strengthens Fritzblitzers claim that the propulsion mod could have some indirect advantage when decelerating.

 

#4

 

 

First of all, i have to tell you that some of the values are off by 1 second. This is because i'm not perfect so there is bound to be some measurement errors

 

Table with new data here:

  Takao (rudder shift mod) Atago (propulsion mod)

Full stop to half speed

(while having the speed set to full)

19 s 13 s
Half speed to 4/3 speed 16 s 12 s
4/3 to full speed 47 s 45 s
4/3 to 34 kts  19 s 17 s

Full speed to 4/3 speed 

(first number is how long it took to reach that speed

second number is how long it took to stabilize)

6 s

51 s

 

6 s

41 s

Full speed to half speed

(first number is how long it took to reach that speed

second number is how long it took to stabilize)

12 s

74 s

11 s

60 s

Half speed to Full speed

after speed just reached Half from Full 

before stabilizing 

62 s 57 s

Half speed to 34 kts

after speed just reached Half from Full 

before stabilizing 

35 s 29 s

Full to 4/3 speed

while set to full stop

6 s 6 s

Full to Half speed

while set to full stop

12 s 11 s

Full speed to full stop

while set to reverse

30 s 29 s

 

 

I mentioned in my previous post that i did additional tests with Full speed replaced by 43 kts because the ship slowed down so much before it reached full speed.

Today i wanted to test if the speed would slow down before reaching any speed that i set it to, so i experimented with setting the speed to something different while still meassuring what i wanted to meassure.

For example, when comparing the [Full stop to Half speed] tests they are basically the same, which means the speed doesn't slow down and you reach half speed just as quickly by setting it to half as you would by setting it to full.

 

However there is still a good reason for setting the speed to full unless you want to go at half speed for some reason, which brings me to the first of my big points...

 

 

Stepwise accelleration

 

 

As i mentioned in my previous post the [full stop to 34 kts] and the [full stop to half speed] + [half speed to 34 kts] do not have the same times (the 3rd point i made).

But not only the times are different but the time differences are also different. To be exact the [full stop to 34 kts] was 38 for Takao and 31 for Atago, so its a 7 second difference, while the [full stop to half speed] + [half speed to 34 kts] was 18+29=47 for Takao and 13+25=38 for Atago, this is a 9 second difference!

And the [full stop to half speed] + [Half speed to 4/3 speed] + [4/3 speed to 34 kts] was 18+16+19=53 for Takao and 13+12+17=42, so a 11 second difference.

 

So while both ships with the propulsion mod and ships without it slows down when accellerating stepwise (setting a specific speed and letting it stabilize before accellerating further), it would seem that ships without it slows down a little bit more.

 

... or actually, now when i see the numbers the difference isn't really that big. 

But at least it is clear that stepwise accelleration slows down your ship, so if you want to get to full speed faster, you should set your speed to full.

 

 

Deceleration

 

 

As you can see in the [Full speed to Half speed] test i used 2 numbers. One to indicate how long it took to reach that speed and one to indicate how long it took to stabilize (because the ship kept decelerating a little more, so it needed some more time to speed up again and reach half speed a 2nd time).

Again the deceleration is the same but the stabilizing has a 14s difference.

 

The [Half speed to Full speed after speed just reached Half from Full before stabilizing] test has an overly complicated name, but what it basically means is that i was at full speed and set the speed to half. Then when it reached half speed i immediately set it back to full speed before it could stabilize.

I believe this test is important because in real games you sometimes reduce the speed a little but you don't necessarily wait for it to stabilize before you start speeding up again.

As expected the ship with the propulsion mod stops decelerating faster. There is a 5s difference for full speed and a 6s difference for 34kts.

 

What this means is that you will benefit from the propulsion mod while changing speed, even at higher speeds.

 

 

Turning radius

 

I didn't test it but i've heard that your turning radius is smaller if you are slower. (if i'm wrong i'll just remove this part)

 

While you can slow down to decrease your turning radius without the propulsion mod it could leave you vulnerable to attacks whereas a ship with the mod could accellerate fast enough to escape unscathed.

 

 

 

Should you use the propulsion mod or the rudder shift mod?

 

Here i'll just name some situation and what mod i think would be better:

 

Avoiding torps:                                          rudder shift (although it's worth noting that you sometimes need to slow down when dodging torps, so the propulsion mod could help you after you dodged them)

Avoiding shells from one enemy:              rudder shift (although it's worth noting that i have trolled more than one BB player by slowing down while turning in my Atago, and this can be a risky tactic if you can't accelerate fast enough afterwards)

Avoiding shells from many enemies:         propulsion (you may need to change your speed here)

Brawling:                                                   rudder shift (need to angle yourself)

Kiting:                                                       rudder shift (good acceleration helps while kiting but being able to go between being angled and showing your side to shoot is more important)

Angling while reversing:                             propulsion (BBs, especially at higher tiers. Some cruisers with relatively good armor, like Des Moines)

Doing smoke things:                                 propulsion (ships that have smoke... except maybe the RN CLs since i've heard they already have good acceleration)

Hugging islands:                                        propulsion (examples would be New Orleans, Atlanta, Des Moines... and most DDs)

Surprise attacks:                                       propulsion (ships with torps like all DDs. ships with good AP like Des Moines, Hindenburg. Sneaky ships with a little bit of everything, like Atago)

Long range HE spamming:                       rudder shift (for cruisers like Zao, Moskva...)

 

Don't tell anyone that i haven't played all of these ships yet. :hiding:

 

 

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Excellent summaries here. I've been using it on all my DDs, and as of lately on New Orleans and Des Moines. And I can say that it has transformed both ships for me. Especially if you combine it with Steering Gears Mod 3 then you can dodge some serious crap.

 

Concealment on some cruisers is overrated IMHO. It is good to have other options.

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Excellent summaries here. I've been using it on all my DDs, and as of lately on New Orleans and Des Moines. And I can say that it has transformed both ships for me. Especially if you combine it with Steering Gears Mod 3 then you can dodge some serious crap.

 

Concealment on some cruisers is overrated IMHO. It is good to have other options.

 

While Moskva with propulsion 2 and steering 3 can WSADhax her way through, its not fun to play cruiser with over 15km detection, especially late game. Stealth baBBies and invisifiring Zaos and such:rolleyes:

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Supertester
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Note that RN cruisers CAN'T equip PM2 even if they wanted to, but their acceleration is as if they stole the warp drive from the starship Enterprise so it doesn't matter.

 

I reached a similar conclusion by "feel" but thank you for the very thorough testing and write-up. To be honest, I would only use propulsion on cruisers T8 plus that can compensate with the super rudder shift in the other slot for the full "dodge build", and even then only on US ships or Kutuzov (for smoke tricks). PM2 for all DDs though.

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While Moskva with propulsion 2 and steering 3 can WSADhax her way through, its not fun to play cruiser with over 15km detection, especially late game. Stealth baBBies and invisifiring Zaos and such:rolleyes:

 

Hindenburg feels quite comfortable with this. Of course, there are times at which I miss the concealment build. But since her guns only have 8.8 sec of reload (with mod), I remain spotted anyway. So I'd rather compensate the slow rudder shift and make her feel like a cruiser again.

Same build with Tashkent. Her concealment will never be good enough to compete with other DDs, so why bother trying.

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