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Stugga

Why WG is BSing us.

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Some time ago, they introduced the new match making. Reasoning was that they didn't want new players who use t3-t4 ships to meet the "uber" t5-t6 ships and so they changed the MM in their favor.  - As a result of this is that t5-t6 ALSO "new players" now almost always meet t7-t8 ships that are way overpowered in comparison to the difference between t4 and t6 ships lets say.

 

The real reason could be that they wanted the players to shift from using t5-t6 ships to use t7 ships to avoid the "harsh MM" in those tiers. As a result, the players get much less "pure profits" playing with their (expensive to repair) t7 ships (meeting t8-t9 with all the captain and modules (and HP) advantages), resulting in having to play more games to gather the credits they want and maybe driving them more often than not to buy doublons/credits etc).

 

Apparently this worked cuz now they introduce new captain skills, making the concealment / RPF etc skills available even as early as t7. The result will be that the gap / advantage of the t7-t8 ships and t5-t6 ships will be even bigger.

 

This new captain skills will drive the players' need to even buy more premium time, more XP / captain XP flags, and in the future maybe have to pay to convert the forthcoming new "elite commander" XP to commander XP or something etc.... Just another way to put more money in the pockets....

 

But I ask you this, what's the difference of a new player using t3-t4 ships and a new player using t5-t6 ships? Some 50 games? Maybe less? So where is their sensitivity towards those new players, who, without a doubt will have to grind much longer those t5-t6 tiers (in comparison to grinding through t3-t4 tiers), that will have to almost always meet t7-t8 ships with severe dissadvantes not only to ships but now also to captain skills?

 

It's all about the money in the pockets... and all the rest is just... BS.

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You mean a company is out to make a buck? What do you know...

Of all the issues WG has, this is not one of them.

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You mean a company is out to make a buck? What do you know...

Of all the issues WG has, this is not one of them.

 

Maybe you don't have to play medium tier ships to gather credits m8. Try it for a week or 2.... or 3-4 months and then come back and talk to me.

 

edit: And you know what? If they were upfront about it, say, if they told us "medium tier economy is too easy and it cuts our profits by a lot and so we had to make this move for the shake of our well being", I'd get it.... but giving us all those lame excuses about their sensitivity towards the new players etc... eh well... - Hence the title "why they are BSing it us" and the whole rest of my post. I didn't say anything otherwise, nor did I attack their needs to make a profit as a company.

 

edit2: Remember the "excuse"  WG gave us about not having Christmas convoy missions in EU server? - Exactly my point / post!

Edited by Stugga

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It's a free to play game but let's be honest WG aren't a charity.Of course they want to make money,as in they do this for a living.As for spending money on the game,that's a player's choice.You want to grind quicker get a Premium account,if you don't wish to spend money on the game,then don't.Want to skip the grind buy a Premium ship.Don't want to spend cash then enjoy the grind.Simple really.

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Maybe you don't have to play medium tier ships to gather credits m8. Try it for a week or 2.... or 3-4 months and then come back and talk to me.

 

Actually, you don't. If you are decent enough (and by that I don't mean "super-unicum-dark-purple") you can make good money at tier 7 and have a at least a +-0 outcome in higher tiers. Even without premium. I didn't find playing tier 8+ only during November and half of December any problem, despite that I don't swim in credits and don't use premium account.

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Wolfenbane, it's not about it m8, it's about the healthy gameplay, cuz everything must have a measure. (Golden medium). ofc WG has a free game and needs profit to run it, same as in WoT, but would you justify there the premium ammo that penetrated everything? It completely destroyed the gameplay and made all those using it at a severe advantage. Same starts to apply here "those who pay, play this and this ship with huge advantages (remember the RN and AUS premium ships that are the only ones that use HE, while RN ships don't? etcetc), and now, with these captain skills, that some of them make a LOT of difference... etc.. - Try play DD of same tier and you not having concealment while the other has.... and you not having RPF while the other has....we're talking about "Paying to have advantage" now. - It's not some little better CD on consumables and one more charge any more... now it's all those little things (consumables, flags, captains etc) that add here and there and over there....resulting at a huge advantage at the end.

Edited by Stugga

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Maybe you don't have to play medium tier ships to gather credits m8. Try it for a week or 2.... or 3-4 months and then come back and talk to me.

 

edit: And you know what? If they were upfront about it, say, if they told us "medium tier economy is too easy and it cuts our profits by a lot and so we had to make this move for the shake of our well being", I'd get it.... but giving us all those lame excuses about their sensitivity towards the new players etc... eh well... - Hence the title "why they are BSing it us" and the whole rest of my post. I didn't say anything otherwise, nor did I attack their needs to make a profit as a company.

 

edit2: Remember the "excuse"  WG gave us about not having Christmas convoy missions in EU server? - Exactly my point / post!

 

 

Nobody has to run premium for T6-8, unless you have no hands, and you should not be playing at all if that is the case.

I was F2P player untill last week, never had credit issues.

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Nobody has to run premium for T6-8, unless you have no hands, and you should not be playing at all if that is the case.

I was F2P player untill last week, never had credit issues.

 

You don't run premium FOR your t6-t8 ships m8. The credits you need are for the higher tier ships, not the medium tiers.

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Wolfenbane, it's not about it m8, it's about the healthy gameplay, cuz everything must have a measure. (Golden medium). ofc WG has a free game and needs profit to run it, same as in WoT, but would you justify there the premium ammo that penetrated everything? It completely destroyed the gameplay and made all those using it at a severe advantage. Same starts to apply here "those who pay, play this and this ship with huge advantages (remember the RN and AUS premium ships that are the only ones that use HE, while RN ships don't? etcetc), and now, with these captain skills, that some of them made a LOT of difference... etc.. - Try play DD of same tier and you not having concealment while the other has.... and you not having RPF while the other has....we're talking about "Paying to have advantage" now. - It's not some little better CD on consumables and one more charge any more... now it's all those little things (flags etc) that add here and there and over there....resulting at a huge advantage at the end.

I get what you are saying.The same happened with Gaijins WT.Kinda of put the nail in the coffin for me with the game after they changed all the crew skills.Hopefully not the case here.

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Hold on a second here.

You're saying that making essential captain skills available earlier/cheaper leads to more grinding/spending?

Please explain that a bit further.

 

Also, most ship lines hit their stride at tier 5-6 where you have a large concentration of "keepers", not just for the purpose of grinding credits.

Kongo/Fuso, Cleveland, Königsberg, Furutaka, New Mexico, Kirov, Leander etc.

Whether you like it or not, tier 3-4 has a way worse time when facing +2 tiers than tier 5-6 has.

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stugga have you tried taking a nice easy profit making tier 6 ship lets say the new mexico and sticking the 50% credit making flag on it and the -10% to costs flag and use that as a credit maker?

or when you collect a crate open up the credits crate and not the silly tyl crates

if you are struggling to make credits using those 2 methods I am wondering what the hell your doing cos you could be near afk and still come out with +credits


 

are you mostly playing tier 8+ cos if you are your ment to a best break even or even lose credits even with premium

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Hold on a second here.

You're saying that making essential captain skills available earlier/cheaper leads to more grinding/spending?

Please explain that a bit further.

 

Also, most ship lines hit their stride at tier 5-6 where you have a large concentration of "keepers", not just for the purpose of grinding credits.

Kongo/Fuso, Cleveland, Königsberg, Furutaka, New Mexico, Kirov, Leander etc.

Whether you like it or not, tier 3-4 has a way worse time when facing +2 tiers than tier 5-6 has.

 

1) I'm saying that their excuse of changing the MM in the past that t4 ships don't meet t6 ships etc, because they "care" for the new players was not valid (aka BS) cuz it's the same player that after 20 games he buys a t5 ships (and a few games later a t6 ship) and now he ALWAYS faces t7 (and t8) ships, that have much more advantage (than a t4 ship has to a t6), not only to power, HP, modules/upgrades etc but also (now) with the new skills that can be unlocked in those tiers (t7, t8), skills like concealment, RPF etc. Making the different between t5-t6 ships and t7-t8 ships even bigger, much bigger. So where is the sensitivity of the devs towards THOSE "new players"? THe ones who played a few games with their t4 ship and now unlocked t5?

 

2) Maybe you still enjoy those "keepers". I got tired of being bottom tier all the time and sold them or stopped playing them almost all. - Why play Konigberg that is a very good CL in tier 5 when you always meet the much better t7 ships? It's not that you meet t4-t5 ships now and "you are a good ship for that tier". Now you are always "food". etc etc

Edited by Stugga

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stugga have you tried taking a nice easy profit making tier 6 ship lets say the new mexico and sticking the 50% credit making flag on it and the -10% to costs flag and use that as a credit maker?

or when you collect a crate open up the credits crate and not the silly tyl crates

if you are struggling to make credits using those 2 methods I am wondering what the hell your doing cos you could be near afk and still come out with +credits

 

 

are you mostly playing tier 8+ cos if you are your ment to a best break even or even lose credits even with premium

 

m8, you did not understand my initial intention. My intention is not about how ppl make credits etc... I have a premium ship for credits and a couple of other decent non-premium ships for that. My post was about the excuses they use and that what they do is not driven by "care" for the new player but only for care for profit, which ends up step by (bigger) step, destroying the healthy "balance"/gameplay of the game.

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You don't run premium FOR your t6-t8 ships m8. The credits you need are for the higher tier ships, not the medium tiers.

 

 

And that is perfectly reasonable, you need premium to run TX, working as intended.

Ah you want a F2P exoerience that allows you to play TX without a care? Methinks you should start developing a war game with battleships...

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And that is perfectly reasonable, you need premium to run TX, working as intended.

Ah you want a F2P exoerience that allows you to play TX without a care? Methinks you should start developing a war game with battleships...

 

Kindly read my previous post. It's not about the credits, it's about the gameplay balance etc.

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1) I'm saying that their excuse of changing the MM in the past that t4 ships don't meet t6 ships etc, because they "care" for the new players was not valid (aka BS) cuz it's the same player that after 20 games he buys a t5 ships (and a few games later a t6 ship) and now he ALWAYS faces t7 (and t8) ships, that have much more advantage (than a t4 ship has to a t6), not only to power, HP, modules/upgrades etc but also (now) with the new skills that can be unlocked in those tiers (t7, t8), skills like concealment, RPF etc. Making the different between t5-t6 ships and t7-t8 ships even bigger, much bigger. So where is the sensitivity of the devs towards THOSE "new players"? THe ones who played a few games with their t4 ship and now unlocked t5?

 

2) Maybe you still enjoy those "keepers". I got tired of being bottom tier all the time and sold them or stopped playing them almost all. - Why play Konigberg that is a very good CL in tier 5 when you always meet the much better t7 ships? It's not that you meet t4-t5 ships now and "you are a good ship for that tier". Now you are always "food". etc etc

 

1) But you're always going to have to draw the line somewhere. At some point the player will have to step into the harsher game and giving them essential skills earlier may expose new players to other players with these skills earlier, it's generally a good thing because it normalizes newer player captain skills with their more experienced counterparts quicker. Much quicker actually as it's a massive 555k XP reduction in getting to the top tier skills.

 

2) I'm not even talking about enjoying them. I'm saying that they are markedly better compared to tier 7-8 ships when top tier. It's all about the reasoning behind putting the point where the training wheels come off at a logical place, and tier 5 happens to be the most logical place for a number of different reasons.

Edited by Nechrom

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But I ask you this, what's the difference of a new player using t3-t4 ships and a new player using t5-t6 ships? Some 50 games? Maybe less? So where is their sensitivity towards those new players, who, without a doubt will have to grind much longer those t5-t6 tiers (in comparison to grinding through t3-t4 tiers), that will have to almost always meet t7-t8 ships with severe dissadvantes not only to ships but now also to captain skills?

 

It's all about the money in the pockets... and all the rest is just... BS.

Sorry but you are completely wrong. Making skills like Concealment a skill that can be obtained at 10 skill points is lowering the bench mark by a huge amount,, Its also catering to non prem players (this is a good thing) The 15 point commander was the  realm of the  High tier player/prem player. Who could then put that commander in there prem tier >5 DD  or the like and seal club, Take a Kamakazee out with a 15 point commander she is SOOO much better than she is with a less skilled captain(and she was already amazing without 15 point commander) Making skills like concealment a tier 4 skill means many many more players that have there low tier fun ships at tier 4 and 5 will know have that stealth that they could not obtain before. Getting rid if 5 point skills is reducing the need for Prem accounts not increasing it. Ok i play with a prem account and will very rarely move a commander to tier 6 if he has not got 10 skill points. 

In the current matric for skill advancement the jump from 10-15 skill points is X6 the XP for 1-10 skill points. So the top skills were very much in the domain of the prem player. making  4 point skills the cap is well and truly putting the top skills in the hands of the non prem and low tier (newer player)

 

 

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Sorry but you are completely wrong. Making skills like Concealment a skill that can be obtained at 10 skill points is lowering the bench mark by a huge amount,, Its also catering to non prem players (this is a good thing) The 15 point commander was the  realm of the  High tier player/prem player. Who could then put that commander in there prem tier >5 DD  or the like and seal club, Take a Kamakazee out with a 15 point commander she is SOOO much better than she is with a less skilled captain(and she was already amazing without 15 point commander) Making skills like concealment a tier 4 skill means many many more players that have there low tier fun ships at tier 4 and 5 will know have that stealth that they could not obtain before. Getting rid if 5 point skills is reducing the need for Prem accounts not increasing it. Ok i play with a prem account and will very rarely move a commander to tier 6 if he has not got 10 skill points. 

In the current matric for skill advancement the jump from 10-15 skill points is X6 the XP for 1-10 skill points. So the top skills were very much in the domain of the prem player. making  4 point skills the cap is well and truly putting the top skills in the hands of the non prem and low tier (newer player)

 

 

 

That's does not negate my initial post that the difference of t7-t8 ships to the t5-t6 ships that are ALSO being played by "new players" (as per WG) will be even bigger. Cuz you used to take concealment at t9 (with normal progression) whereas now you'll take it at t7. Furthermore, now the t7-t8 ships' captains may also have RPF too (if you "invest" in lvl-ing your captain), whereas the "new players" playing t5-t6 ships ofc won't. etc - ANd my point was, "the care for new players meeting sealclubbers" is not valid, cuz now the ALSO new player (playing t5-t6 ships) will be in a DOULBE disadvantage. Not that only of the ships themselves but also the captains.

 

Lets accept the facts. Besides some nostalgia, earlier with the new MM and now with the new captain skills, the t5-t6 gameplay is destroyed and you must absolutely shift to higher tiers (and face the harsher economy etc). (unless ofc you got a prem ship lvl-ing your med tier captains). This was my point when I was talking about not caring of the "new players", but it was just excuses, or how the gameplay is becoming imbalanced etc.

Edited by Stugga

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That's does not negate my initial post that the difference of t7-t8 ships to the t5-t6 ships that are ALSO being played by "new players" (as per WG) will be even bigger. Cuz you used to take concealment at t9 (with normal progression) whereas now you'll take it at t7. Furthermore, now the t7-t8 ships' captains may also have RPF too (if you "invest" in lvl-ing your captain), whereas the "new players" playing t5-t6 ships ofc won't. etc - ANd my point was, "the care for new players meeting sealclubbers" is not valid, cuz now the ALSO new player (playing t5-t6 ships) will be in a DOULBE disadvantage. Not that only of the ships themselves but also the captains.

 

T5-T6 is not for "new players", you may not like it, but after half the curve, you should know what you got yourself into. Were that not the case, you need more training, AKA, stay at T4 and lower.

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T5-T6 is not for "new players", you may not like it, but after half the curve, you should know what you got yourself into. Were that not the case, you need more training, AKA, stay at T4 and lower.

 

Reminder: You only need about 10-15 games to unlock a t5 ship. Suddenly you became experienced?

 

The "poor" new players now will face t7-t8 ships with concealment and/or even RPF captains. (I wouldn't be surprised if some radar CLs like the US ones get RPF first)

Edited by Stugga

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Reminder: You only need about 10-15 games to unlock a t5 ship. Suddenly you became experienced?

 

The "poor" new players now will face t7 ships with concealment and/or even RPF captains. (I'm pretty sure some radar CAs like US and RN ones may get RPF first)

 

There is no "suddenly" about anything. It's a constant curve of learning. At some point you would have to be considered not a newbie.

Tier 5 is a logical place for this since that's where CA start and BBs start getting the higher calibre guns which can overmatch a lot of armor.

What if you play several lines at the same time? What if you are just naturally better at these games? Or at the other end of the spectrum, if you're hopeless and not improving much at all?

At some point you have to take off the training wheels. The alternative is to not have a "newbie zone" at all.

Edited by Nechrom

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10-15 games is a remarkably low number of games to get to tier 5.

It took me 12 to get to the konigsberg but thats because I use premium, had the +50% xp flag, skipped the tier 1 entirely with free xp, free xp'd all the modules on all the 2-4 ships and then free xp'd my way past the karlsruhe.

 

The US destroyer line took me 33 games to get to tier 5, still with premium (but not free xp'ing anything).

 

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10-15 games is a remarkably low number of games to get to tier 5.

It took me 12 to get to the konigsberg but thats because I use premium, had the +50% xp flag, skipped the tier 1 entirely with free xp, free xp'd all the modules on all the 2-4 ships and then free xp'd my way past the karlsruhe.

 

The US destroyer line took me 33 games to get to tier 5, still with premium (but not free xp'ing anything).

 

Took me 14 battles just in the Karlsruhe to get to the Königsberg with premium... :hiding:

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1) I'm saying that their excuse of changing the MM in the past that t4 ships don't meet t6 ships etc, because they "care" for the new players was not valid (aka BS) cuz it's the same player that after 20 games he buys a t5 ships (and a few games later a t6 ship) and now he ALWAYS faces t7 (and t8) ships, that have much more advantage (than a t4 ship has to a t6), not only to power, HP, modules/upgrades etc but also (now) with the new skills that can be unlocked in those tiers (t7, t8), skills like concealment, RPF etc. Making the different between t5-t6 ships and t7-t8 ships even bigger, much bigger. So where is the sensitivity of the devs towards THOSE "new players"? THe ones who played a few games with their t4 ship and now unlocked t5?

 

2) Maybe you still enjoy those "keepers". I got tired of being bottom tier all the time and sold them or stopped playing them almost all. - Why play Konigberg that is a very good CL in tier 5 when you always meet the much better t7 ships? It's not that you meet t4-t5 ships now and "you are a good ship for that tier". Now you are always "food". etc etc

 

You miss the point. You said that the difference between t3-4 and t5-6 ship (and so the pain of being low tier) is less than between t5-6 and t7-8. That's simply not true. T3 ships especially are completely screwed when faced by +2tier opposition. This is the most prominent in case of BBs but it works for other classes too. T5-6 is, actually, where most lines start being able to pull their weight even when severely outtiered. Kongo is still very fast and its range lets it play the supporting BB role pretty well. Non-stock Fuso still packs a punch. IJN DDs can be dangerous through stealth torping and USN ones - while they do have a harder time - can knife-fight higher tier DDs effectively (as long as the higher tier DD isn't a gunboat too, of course). I'm not sure about USN BBs as I've never played them - but their t5 and t6 cruisers are pretty powerful in their ow way. And yes, St. Louis is a beast at t3 but I most certainly prefer facing t7 BB and CA guns in an Omaha than t5 guns in St. Louis.

 

Basically, the experience of constantly being bottom tier in t5-6 ships is - generally speaking - much less painful than the same situation at tier 3-4. And while I'm not a big fan of too much adjustments like these, I can at least understand WGs thought process behind choosing a LESS painful (though longer) experience at t5-6 (when players are likely to be somewhat hooked already) instead of an absolutely terrible experience of t3-4 that could drive away people who just came to try the game out.

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