Why/ when is a ship considered OP?

[Ferry_25]

Q to the community and WG. I tried the "search function" but it couldn't comprehend "OP ships." You might probably know once in a while I am posting a silly question. So here's 1 again. Wg won't be selling Impregnator, Granny, K-R and mayby some more prem ships because it's considered "OP." Now I don't want to whine "gimme a granny or I will cry..." I am only curious to the reasoning behind that. I did buy Imp when it was on sale. And yes: it's a very dangerous though and hard shooting ship in my xp. Granted: it has 12 guns and the 1,2, 3 turrets are amazing when turning. T2T BB combat is nothing too hard. But OP?? I wouldn't say that. First Imp is a real sucker against CV's. Second: when being overtiered in BB combat it quickly runs into trouble. Heck I think twice before engaging a New York, Kongo or Konig in it. Third: Imp turns like a brick: it is IMO a worse torpedo catchr than Yamato is. Fouth: my "big mouth" is being shut up when being focussed out: a captain's diner meal between 2 salvo's is really getting to me sometimes. Don't want to put up a wall of txt. But the so called "OP" ships really do have their weaknesses IMO. So my plain question is: why??

[Venatacia]

When a tomato can do well in it. That's when you know it's OP.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

When a ship's average stats clearly outclass most other ships average stats then it's usually OP. 

Also, the ships that are played the most are usually considered OP as they attract the most players because they appear to be the most powerful ships.

[Cosseria]

A ship is considered OP when:

 

1- supertesters, streamers and experienced players try her out and warn there's something a bit out of scale. Unusually good stats confirm their first impression.

 

2- a clueless child in a backpedalling BB gets brutally murdered by a competent player who's using the said ship and begins to scream and shout on the forum calling for heavy nerfs. "Krasny Krim OP, nerf NOW!!!"

[ColonelPete]

Everybody has different views.

For me there are no "OP" ships in the game, only ships that are more powerful than others.

 

Stats are a dangerous tool to judge a ship as ships have different playerbases (see Flint) which distort the results. For that reason most premium ships perform better than silver ships (no stock grind, people buy and keep playing the ships because they like them and do not play them to grind another ship).

Popularity is also not objective as peoples preferences might just change.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Nikolai is obscene I think, it should be nerfed.

 

It "might" have been okay back when T4s could still see T6 in MM but now it has T5 maximum you know you are top dog in any game, battleship wise. In the hands of a competent pilot it is almost like having a cheat. 

 

Vs other BB  you simply heavily angle and let your AP shells work, sometimes you will angle so the last turret isn't used; it really depends on how good the opposition are. Nikolai guns do not derp unlike all other T4 BBs so you out punch pretty much all other BB around you.

 

If I gave you a Myogi, a Nassau and a South Carolina and forced you to play them. Then I gave you Nikolai back, you would see the massive difference in power the RU ship has.

 

Sure it has no AA but torp bombers can be dodged unless the CV guy is another seal clubber.

 

I think OP is when a ship is massively stronger than her peers.

 

Atago is another arguable one although she is an excellent all rounder which no other T8 cruiser can get near in terms of ability. 360 degree torps, awesome HE and the Heal ability all add up. 

 

Gremy is an all round monster too, the Anshan is similar in play style except its a tier higher and doesn't do anything better. 

 

Some might argue Bismarck (secondaries and hydro) or Scharn (preferred MM and all round excellent handling) are OP too.

 

 

 

 

[Agantas]

Ship is considered to be overpowered (OP) when it performs way better than its peers. Usually, such ship would get nerfed, but due to WG's policy of not nerfing premiums, they just stop selling the ship if it's OP instead.

[eliastion]

When a tomato can do well in it. That's when you know it's OP.

 

No, that's not it. I mean, it's part of it, but there are two aspects and this one is actually less important of the two. Yes, ship with low skill floor perform well (and, more importantly: consistently) but that alone doesn't make them OP. A ship needs to also have a considerable skill ceiling. Basically:

 - if a ship lets you perform well despite not being too good of a player, it's an easy ship: usually it means being forgiving, letting you make mistakes and live to make some more

 - if a ship in skilled hands is the harbringer of doom, it's a really powerful ship

 

A truly OP ship is one that combines the second quality with some measure of the first one. A ship that lets you perform miracles might appear OP from time to time but only performs consistently in the best hands (and usually can be outplayed by equally or more skilled opponent since it just has weaknesses to exploit). If, however, such powerful vessel happens to be not only powerful but also relatively easy? Then you have yourself a serious balancing problem...

 

Oh, and then there is one other related category - a noobstomper. Noobstomper doesn't really need to be very powerful or exceedingly easy - it needs to be very effective against less skilled players. Countering such a ship might be relatively easy - the thing is: it's a low-tier ship that rarely encounters experienced players who know what to do. That's what got Kamikaze "banned" from sales. It's a great ship, certainly, but when played by skilled players against skilled players it wouldn't really count as significantly OP... problem is: it's not played against skilled players. Being relatively low tier, Kamikaze encounters many newer players who are still learning the game. And then our dear Kamikaze becomes a monster. Inexperienced opponents, inherently susceptible to torps + Kamikaze = carnage. I myself very rarely have problems with Kamikazes when paying lower tiers. They don't really scare me personally when they appear. But boy, have I seen some matches where they dominated the other team so hard it wasn't even funny.

[ColonelPete]

The last part is very important and that was the reason I was not that happy with WG changing the torps of the Minekaze.

The Minekaze was not too strong. It is just good at punishing inexperienced players. There are stronger Tier V ships in game.

 

[Gnirf]

Noobstomper thats interesting Word. Well sealclubber is many low tier ships when equipped with good enough captains like Bogatyr. However no ship not even Nikolai is a sure win, but are almost by itself a ship that automatically gives that team an advantage. Especially if the CV  player is a newbie. But I was placed in a Nikolai with if I remember correctly 7-8 DDs on each side and then I ran into difficulties, and was a victim of determined massattack from DDs, which was aggravated by some mistakes from my own teams DDs. However all T4 battleships would have suffered that fate. The thing is also how "easy" it is to be a real killer. If I remembered correctly I have reached 100 K+ in Wyoming maybe 2 times in 167 games, Ishizuchi maybe 5-6 times in 419 games, Myogi, Kaiser never above 100 (90+ best result) but fewer games, Nikolai twice in 18 games. Sure one has poor games with all, but the chances of good and above all great games are far greater in "OP ships". But of course there are ships which are considered OP which are not suited both to playing style and skill level of all players. Some ships take a big jump in results when certain captain skills are reached. I know that I fight with an disadvantage on higher tiers in my DDs as I do not have CE on any ships. Many of the DDs I face have that. As I am less skilled also in higher tier play I expect better results later after more experience.  In Bogatyr my favourite ship on the other hand I have the advantage in skill and captain skills. But few seems to play that ship to a high level.

 

If I am top tier in Bogatyr I know that we have a good chance to win if my team are not much weaker and gets stomped early. Its good also if they understand what I am good at in such a ship. But I suppose that is what you elastion mean by Noobstomper. I prefer the word sealclubber as Noob for me is a player that never learns.

 

 

[GeneralIKrizmuz]

When a ship's average stats clearly outclass most other ships average stats then it's usually OP. 

Also, the ships that are played the most are usually considered OP as they attract the most players because they appear to be the most powerful ships.

 

This

 

when it breaks out of the group of its peers

[beercrazy]

some ships do well at some things and crap at others while some ships we like to call op seem to do well at all the things that make em good

take the nikolai it has epic guns for tier4 and the fact it has 12 of em is great but to make it so the first 3 turrets that's 9 guns can be aimed while perfect angle to enemy is nice

now lets add the armour which is epic at tier 4

its aa is meh but hey its tier 4

but it does have weakness in its slow as hell and turns like crap so it struggles against torps and by god it burns easy

but do the weakness equal the over powerful points and that's a no so this ship is op in my opinion

the gremmy is the same as it has good guns good torps and near crazy camo

 

now these ships are in my view op but lets just stop and check something they have all been paid for with hard earned cash when someone bought them on understanding that that's what they bought and though some say nerf premiums think on this how about you had a bmw sat on your driveway and bmw phoned you up and said hey bring the car in we think its too good so though you own the car we bmw own the program that is running the cars main computers and we are gonna change the performance through them to make the car seem a bit crap now

I know its a game and I know damn well you cant take buying a car the same as buying a ship in a game but remember so many laws are going around under eu stuff and changed so much its easier for wg just to leave the premium ships alone

 

op ships are still shite ships in a bad players hands while bad ships can seem op ships in a good players hands

[Vogel]

When they are Russian 

 

[Hedgehog1963]

If i can get a positive WR in it then definitely OP.

 

Thing is I have some of the really OP ships and I'm way behind on performance in them.

[Odo_Toothless]

Nikolai you say ? It's only a slightly better then Kaiser ;-) Anyway it was only a few first games and the same results could be done in other IV tiers BB... When somebody have problems with torps, that playing a lot of Mikasa in low tier torpedo soup would make it much easier.

 

Kaiser

4

BB

4

WR 50.00%

DMG 76,020

kills: 1.3

Imperator Nikolai I

4

BB

3

WR 66.67%

DMG 105,150

kills: 2.3

[Kittykami]

Something that allows a reasonably talented player to utterly dominate anyone not using said ship.

[Gojuadorai]

pretty easy

 

if it has over ~60% WR on a server

(large enough number of games and average player base [not onlya subset of players])

 

then there can be ships average joe is sub 50 but really good playeres have verry high WR.

in those cases its unclear weather "OP" appplies.

[Odo_Toothless]

Played Nikolai and .... server disconnected only me. After long waiting (internet connection was all the time working) I found my lovely ship sunked. Did 20 K and was so angry. Then played another battle .... Mine overall record in DMG so far was beaten :-)

 

 

 

[kfa]

For me the Atago and the Kamikaze R is the most OP ships in the game, i love them and tend to do really good in them, also Zuiho and Belfast is platooned up.

[periscope_up]

The ship is OP if the TOP 10 server players are doing much better in that ship than TOP 10 server players in other ships, taking under account recent stats (from the recent patch). That's the only measure that can be effectively used to judge the ship's limits of performance, the rest of the (historical) data is rigged one way or another (different population, "frozen" stats (a lot of people playing the ship when it was OP, but not anymore after it got nerfed so the stats are converging very slowly to the new, lower limit of its current capability since a lot more battles have been played before and much less nowadays), the difference in the strength and popularity back then & now (when the environment was different and other national lines of the same class - nonexistent), new "toys" like hydro, etc)

[RenamedUser_92906789]

Thre ship is OP when it has strenghts that can not be countered at all

 

[Slauter]

Ship is OP when it's much better than it's competition, especially when you compare it to counterparts on it's tier (like Atago/Mogami), and when it can do very well against higher tiers. There's a number of examples, Belfast is probably the best one. Even though it's tier 7 it would probably be used in every competitive T8 game.

[Bladezfist]

Kutuzov is the most OP ship they still sell imo. It's amazing at it's tier and amazing at tier 10, it does not rely on a good captain to be OP, all you need is a good position and a smoke charge. It's one of the few ships where I want to be hunted by a Yamato in. 

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

I disagree, Kutuzov is good to very good depending on the teams composition (and of course the player) but it is not that OP at all, been playing the kutuzov and saw a lot in battle:

- Has to rely heavily on the team (to spot for the kutuzov).

- HE are good but nothing OP like Zao's HE.

- AP are ok but at 19km you will not often score citadels.

- Armor is ok bow on but that is all.

- Saw far too many kutu going CQB (under 10km) at the start of the game.

 

My average games in the kutu = much more than the server's average of 38-40k but:

- I am not a tomato player

- I spend at least 10min staying at 19km from my target

- My captain has 18pts (CE so invisifire window)

 

Worst games in a kutu? When the team melts away fast and you barely manage to deal 40k dmg.

 

OP ships IMO:

First let's set this straight: A tomato (broadside at constant speed all game long) can be given any ship and still perform badly, and since performance has to be measured against metrics -> let's say the stats websites are a good measurement tool, Aka, a tomato in a yamato that I burn down to 0 HP with my kutu claiming the yamato is UP because he dealt 0dmg during his game (yes happened once)

 

OP ship:

- Ship whose performance is noticeably higher than his same tier counterparts (some German BB)

- Ship that, provided it is not steered by a tomato, will be almost invulnerable to its same tier counterparts or have a huge advantage (Nikolai, Gremy)

 

Now OP ship or not this is still a very subjective notion, I do not count anymore the number of times I have been reported/told phoenix, izumo, colorado are.....OP

 

[Ferry_25]

Thanks for the input! All very interesting POV's. Not to mock anyone but they all give me the feeling nobody actually knows why a ship is considered OP. Again: I don't intent to whine I just want to understand why. And I took Imperator for an example. In line of the answers my opinion is prem ships have an extra "nasty sting" on top of the "basic utilities." Because you pay for it. Call it P2W but I can see the logic in it. Imp: fantastic guns, Atago: the heal, Kutuzov: the smoke a.s.o. Why aren't all prem ships being considered OP then? Stats? They only tell part of the story. My stats are open for public so feel free to roam around. Being a sucker in numbers I do see my stats are the shining epitaph of mediocreness. They are in line with my experience ingame: I neither suck nor shine in Wows. I took the t4-5 BB's from my stats f.e. on wows-numbers. The only bias there is the fact I grinded Wyoming and New York in my "beginners time." And the rest much later. Given that I don't see any "obscene" difference with Nicolaj and the rest of the BB's.

Skill? That as well is telling part of the story: the amount of dmg given is influenced by RNG for a great deal. Don't have exact numbers but my gut feeling is saying at least 50%. F.e. a few days ago I 1 shot a Neptune, scoring 8 citadels in the process. Of course: that felt awesome. And yes getting into that situation was influenced by skill. But I can recall dozens of times in very similar situations I scored 8 hits as well: 1 overpen for the popular 1060 dmg, the rest bounces or pen without damage (guess the 7 other shells miraculously hit that half damaged AA gun ).

Ingame feeling? Imperator f.e. again: yes it feels very powerful. But tier to tier compared Yamato feels more powerful in extremo. Had a Yama Y'day and confronted a Montana. We were "alone" he was on 50% health, I was at 75. We both didn't make mistakes: well angled and exchanging fire. I completely "murdered" him. Ok, ok: maybe skill and good luck from my part: I nose citadelled him to the ground. And I know it's 1 example.

Uncounterable strenghts? Frankly I haven't seen them yet. The smoking cruisers? Watch those cruisers carefully: whenever they are slowing down, you'll know they're going to pop smoke. With some practise you'll know quite well when they are almost completely dead in the water, aim a tiny bit for their point and watch the citadels/ 1 shots get into the smoke the moment they vanish. Fill the smoke with torps, hydro/ radar or just wait them out. Imperator: focus him out, do nice quick sailing ship tours around him, giving him mouthfull of torps or when present: call der Luftwaffe.

Given that I still don't understand why some ships are considered to be OP and others not. And maybe it'll stay a mistery. I am very curious to a clear answer. The best I can bring up so far: those ships considered OP are actually striking a deeper nerve: the lack of teamplay. Teamplay should be the backbone of this entire game and IMO is completely desinged around that. If I "mureder" to 2 "yolo-solo-ing" Phoenixes in my Imperator it should teach them that's not a good idea. But instead of learning from that mistake, it seems like those players are starting to yell "Imperator is OP!!!" I tried to do a "suicide torp run" on a Yamato once in the prenerf Fubuki. It managed to get 50% of that job done: the suicide part that is. It never crossed my mind to start yelling and screaming! Nope: "that's not a good tactic against that ship Ferry, try something else" was the lesson I learned. (I tried it about 7 more times after that with the same result so you might say "wow, that's pretty quick learning from your standards, Ferry....")