Give Scharnhorst the Cruiser accuracy or alpha it deserves.

[tajj7]

I'm not that good at the game, but the Scharnhorst is by far, my highest average damage ship. I think that speaks for itself. It doesn't need a buff, it's a very fun ship to play. Sure the guns are not great, but that is why you have the ROF, fast turning turrets, fast shell velocity etc. to compensate. 

 

If anything, the Graf Spree needs the buff, it essentially gets the same MM as a Scharnhorst due to the way tier 7s is at the moment, yet gets 50% less guns, less range, less speed, less armour, less HP and has the same ROF. It's a tad more accurate, but mainly because it's guns only go to 16km, whereas the Scharnhorst has over 19km range, at 16km there probably isn't much difference. 

 

Graf Spree should get a ROF and accuracy/or range buff IMO. 

[Fizzy_Odin]

I have Atalanta, Belfast, Molotov ( t6 ) and Kutuzov (t8 ) and ofc Scharnhorst - Scharnhorst is by far best premium and with 15pt cpt. with secondary-s that ship is trouble even in t9 fight, not once did I manage to torp and killed Iowa

 

[Cpt_Mooney]

Yep, people actually want to buff one of the best ships in the game, tier for tier.

Scharnhorst 205kdpm

Fiji 297kdpm

Both tier7 with 2x3 torps btw, but lets not have facts ruin a good story,

So much for the "super cruiser", who in this game trade alpha and pen for DPM(guess the gremlins ate those DPM).

Sadly the Scharn gets neither... Or anything else for that matter really.

Its a slower Gneisenau with less HP, whose guns are borderline useless at best, for which youre charged 35 Bucks.

 

WG gave the Scharn guns that combine the shittiest aspects of two world:

Battleship dispersion and reload(20s is NOT cruiser like, and certainly not fast enough to make any use of the garbage german HE),

and the cruisers incapability of punching through beefy armor.

Actually she even got nerfed guns, compared to its cruiser counterparts carrying the same caliber.

As well as lower HP and speed, compared to the Gneis mind you(becauuse that surely helps alot with brawling).

 

Ive got the Tirpiz and the Scharn, and theres a WORLD of difference.

And that comes from a cruiser Captain who actually loved the general idea behind the ship.

Complete waste of money, regardless of what the "its fine, even tho ive got nothing to actually put weight beind that statement" trolls say.

Oh right theres this one Video with a guy getting all fancy about 6km secondaries(lol), as opposed to dozens staing its NOT a good ship.

Or just look through the noumerous threads discussing which premium is worth getting, Scharnhorst is amoung the least suggested ones.

People not using stuff is a pretty good indicator of weather the Ships ina good spot or not.

 

Historically accurate?

Nope, the german 283cm guns could shoot straight and certainly puncture cruiser armor("cruiser killer" and stuff, its a pitty she cant even do that really.

Fills my heart with joy evertime a NC or Nagato oneshots me ina Takao or Mogami from 20k+ with pinpoint accuracy).

 

Balanced in view of a cruiser role?

Nope, its got BB DPM(216k Tirpiz, 205K Scharn) only with no punch, accuracy that can only be described as instult to every german metalworker,

vastly lower fire chance, and as a topping is even outrun by alot of other BS.

Its not like its the fastest thing around or anything, even the Bismark, which is a true Behemoth in comparrison, goes faster, what a joke.

 

Needs a Buff, despite the "real" BB Captains dont want to have competition?

Heck yeah.

 

ATM theres not a SINGLE aspect going for the Scharnhorst, not one, nada, zero, njente.

No idea how you define "balanced" but giving a Ship only crappy attributes and traits, then calling it a day, certainly isnt well balanced.

"But, but, muh Torpedoes!" Yeah, so does the Gneis, without her guns beind listed in the Lexicon under "Things that suck noodles".

[159Hunter]

Yep, people actually want to buff one of the best ships in the game, tier for tier.

Scharnhorst 205kdpm

Fiji 297kdpm

Both tier7 with 2x3 torps btw, but lets not have facts ruin a good story,

So much for the "super cruiser", who in this game trade alpha for dpm(guess the gremlins stole its DPM).

 

WG gave the Scharn guns that combine the shittiest aspects of two world:

Battleship dispersion and reload(20s is NOT cruiser like, and certainly not fast enough to make any use of the garbage german HE),

and the cruisers incapability of punching through beefy armor.

Actually she even got nerfed guns, compared to its cruiser counterparts carrying the same caliber.

 

Ive got the Tirpiz and the Scharn, and theres a WORLD of difference.

And that comes from a cruiser Captain who actually loved the general idea behind the ship.

Complete waste of money, regardless of what the "its fine, even tho ive got nothing to actually put weight beind that statement" trolls say.

Oh right theres this one Video with a guy getting all fancy about 6km secondaries(lol), as opposed to dozens staing its NOT a good ship.

Or just look through the noumerous threads discussing which premium is worth getting, Scharnhorst is amoung the least suggested ones.

People not using stuff is a pretty good indicator of weather the Ships ina good spot or not.

 

Historically accurate? Nope, the german 283cm guns could shoot straight and certainly puncture cruiser armor("cruiser killer" and stuff, its a pitty it cant even do that really).

Balanced in view of a cruiser role? Nope, its got BB DPM(216k Tirpiz, 205K Scharn) only with no punch, vastly lower fire chance, and is even outrun by alot of other BS

(Its not like its the fastest thing around or anything, even the Bismark, which is a true Behemoth in comparrison, goes faster, what a joke.)

Needs a Buff, despite the "real" BB Captains dont want to have competition? Heck yeah.

 

ATM theres not a SINGLE aspect going for the Scharnhorst, not one, nada, zero, njente.

No idea how you define "balanced" but giving a Ship only crappy attributes and traits, then calling it a day certainly isnt.

 

OP comparing Fiji to Scharnhorst: to what end?

OP comparing Tirpitz to Scharnhorst: as said before THEY ARE DIFFERENT TIERS, so DON'T

 

 

Ofc Scharhorst has battleship dispersion and reload, it's a freaking BB in game. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

 

Complete waste of money: the overall server stats disagree. This BB outperforms any other tier VII BB by a mile, and damage wise it's only the Flint that surpasses it ( you know, that OP cruiser generally played by people who actually know what they're doing in this game, on not a ship that everyone can buy ). Dmg Gneisenau about 50k dmg on Scharnhorst about 54k. That's an 8% difference! And yet you still want to buff the guns, for the love of god why?

 

 

Historically accurate: this aint a historical simulator, it's an arcade game.

Balance cruiser role: IT'S A BATTLESHIP...

 

 

You sir are a troll, there is no other solution as nobody can be this  **************

 

 

[Cpt_Mooney]

Ofc Scharhorst has battleship dispersion and reload, it's a freaking BB in game. What is so hard to understand about that

Read through this thread and count the times where "because of balance" appears.

You cant take away its alpha and pen without giving it accuracy and DPM.

BALANCE! You take something away, you gotta give it something, THAT shouldnt be hard to understand.

"But, but its a BB" Well wheres the damage potential that justifies ANY of that?

Oh wait! ITS NOT THERE!

Turn on brain before posting next time.

 

Dmg Gneisenau about 50k dmg on Scharnhorst about 54k.

Sayd that before, say it again:

You gotta look at the top 1%, not the average throughout the Playerbase.

 

Balance cruiser role: IT'S A BATTLESHIP...

Apparently, according to common consense, its not.

Only that its got neither of the Benefits of a CA nor a BB, when it comes to offensive capabilities.

Just like i sayd, you cant only dump the shitty aspects of two worlds on it and call it balanced.

 

Now, whats so hard to understand about that?

Allso, again no argument for WHY it should be considered well balanced, other then "the propably seasoned players, who most likely got tier 10 BBs

and want to enjoy a change in gmaeplay" perform better than the general scrub who might just have unlocked tier7.

A LITTLE freakin common sense is a bless sometimes.

 

OP comparing Tirpitz to Scharnhorst: as said before THEY ARE DIFFERENT TIERS, so DON'T

To some degree you have to, because your not only matched against your own tier.

While the Tirpiz is very well able to contribute to a tier 10 match, the Scharn is NOT carrying its own weicht even in tier8.

So she can serve as a pretty good benchmark, when put at simmilar tier differences.

Therefore, using the t8 vs the t7 to issulstrate that both ships got BB dps, with the t7 lacking both alpha and pen(which on every other ship is countered through raw DPM)

is a good and easy to grasp way of relaying the core problem.

 

Factor in mitigation mechanics, and it even makes a Myogis damage output look pretty badass in comparrison.

I can rock 110k+ ina Kaiser, so whats the big deal with people breaking a hundret ina Ship 3 tiers higher?

 

[ScratxNeko]

I'll point out anyone who hasn't even played a tier 1 ship can buy any premium ship on sale, so arguments that a premium ship performs better or worse because only people with more experience play her are bogus.

 

In fact, it's easier to argue that premium ships may have shittier stats than they otherwise would have because if you had to actually grind it, you'd have experience under your belt by the time you got it.

[Cpt_Mooney]

Thats true, and kinda ties in with what i sayd, because of target demographics.

What is the most likely Ship to get for a fresh tier 1 guy who wants a headstart?

The meanest thing available, if you decide to buy a ship prior to figuring out what role you actually enjoy the most.

Either that, or something in the "newbiefriendly" tiers up to, and including, tier4(a little research will reveal the +1

tier limit by the matchmaking for those ships).

 

So, naturally the Tirpizes general stats will be severely dragged down due to that circumstance.

Hence, you gotta look at the top 1%, instead of the average, to get a reliable picture.

 

Since we dont have a 3rd party site keeping track of those things, people putting up the matches where they

really "rocked the house" on youtube, are the next best source for theese exceptional matches.

And while i find plenty of 250k+ match footage from the Tirpiz, 150kish can be considered a really descent

match for a Scharnhorst allready.

Quite frankly, a 66% increase nowhere nearly is in line with a +1tier.

 

Now dont get me wrong, i actually think the Tirpiz is ina very good spot, trading secondary range and hydro for

a torplauncher when compared to the Bismark.

So the deviation is imho a result of Scharnhorst not being where it could be considered well balanced.

[ColonelPete]

No game should be balanced for 1% of the playerbase. That would defeat the purpose of balance.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

WG need to give this guy a job, maybe offer an ST position to them? 

 

Then listen and heed all the feedback. 

 

OP's next post will be asking for Nikolai buffs 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

OP's complaining about Scharn's accuracy and poor alpha damage leads me to the one inevitable conclusion:

 

OP is a 15km BB sniper 

[mtm78]

The guy might be either a 10/10 troll or just delusional, he's been using ( very very flawed ) arguments so I can see why the mods haven't closed the thread yet.

 

To bad for OP though ->

 

Ships which sit on the first page of win rate sorted summary for their class are not really suited for being called UP. Though perhaps OP just disappointed with the gun performance, and damage wise she is only ahead of Arizona by a slim margin. But, ships are not just balanced around their guns, Scharnhorst is quick, has decent AAA, has excellent ( turtleback ) armor and it's this platform which makes the gun performance 100% acceptable. And do notice that 27% MBH is actually way above average

[Exocet6951]

 

Scharnhorst 205kdpm

Fiji 297kdpm

Both tier7 with 2x3 torps btw, but lets not have facts ruin a good story,

 

 

Ive got the Tirpiz and the Scharn, and theres a WORLD of difference.

 

 

Your Scharn has 52% WR, which is 3% more than your global average, which is without any surprises below average.

Meanwhile, 41% with the Tirpitz.

I honestly don't see how you can think that The scharn is having more problems, considering the Tirpitz is as fast, has more DPM, bigger guns, is more accurate, better armor, the same torpedoes, and yet you perform worse overall with her.

 

 

As for the pointless DPM comparison, 

Scharnhorst DPM = 205k

Atlanta DPM = 403k

Both have 1 torpedo launcher per side, though the Atlanta's torpedoes are much worse in every aspect.

 

Atlanta must be super duper mega OP with that AP DMP right?

It's not as if the size and penetration of the gun had anything to do with it.

 

No, pure theoritical DPM is so important. Forget that the Atlanta's 403k AP DPM would bounce off most targets.

[RogDodgeUK]

moved to Ships / Battleships

[El2aZeR]

Yamato AP DPM: ~240k

Des Moines AP DPM: ~480k

 

Well, damn, I guess Yama needs a buff. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Everytime the OP posts again on this thread I will post a battle of myself farming potatoes in my Scharnhorst... 

[El2aZeR]

Sry to be late on this btw, but

 

You guys need to look at the top 1%, and how they perform, to get a reliable picture of any ships performance, and not the averages throughout the playerbase.

 

T7 BB statistics, filtered by the top 5% players.

 

 

As you can see, Scharnhorst is clearly in need of a buff. 

[SmartassNoob]

Get a premium ship that has torps - only use it for sniping at maximum range. Makes sense. 

[tsounts]

Just stop feeding the troll guys.

[psl_58]

It is kinda weird that Graf Spee gets better performance with the worse version of the 28 cm guns. Does anyone have any data on their penetration values?

 

That being said, Scharnhorst is fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Penetration_Germany.htm

 

you can compare the pen values above , its clear the Scharnhorst guns have much better pen than the AGS,

SCHARNHORSTR GUNS = 11" @ 20,000 yards vs british plates , while ADMIRAL GRAF SPEE  GUNS = 7" @ 20,000 yards vs british plates

AT 10,000 YARDS SCHARNHORSTR GUNS = 17" vs british plates , while ADMIRAL GRAF SPEE  GUNS = 13" @ 20,000 yards vs british plates

[Earl_of_Northesk]

What an awesome thread, how have I missed that?

Is the OP still around? His ignorance is just awesome!

[RUSSIANBlAS]

WG please buff Scharn, I should have had atleast 150k damage in that game, I only landed 7 citadels with no Devastating Strikes and only 44 other shells hit their target.

 

Scharn under-performs 

 

[Malfuss]

Thread of the century, how did I miss this. Oh that's right, it said a Scharnhorst needs buffs, so I ignored it, my bad.

[woppy101]

I love my scharnhorst and would love it to get a buff hahaha, but it's borderline overpowered now never mind if WG buff it. Sadly the only thing I can see coming scharnhorsts way is a nerf in the future.