[IDDQD] Quetak Players 2,099 posts 22,396 battles Report post #51 Posted January 4, 2017 How do the 150s compare to the Russian 130s for farming cruiser tears (citadels)? I'm on Gaede and adapting to the style, really only aiming for Z-23 for uniqueness even if it's not super strong. I hadnt much situations when cruiser was close enought yet. On 5km I hit some citadels on Atago. Its not super strong ship, but also not weak. Whole German DD line seems to me okay, not OP either UP. Hydro is great tool for caps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[2OP] Beardroid91 Players 357 posts 13,853 battles Report post #52 Posted January 5, 2017 Once Z-23 gets the 150mm guns and the hull upgraded it is actually a decent boat as the guns actually do damage rather than the junk 128's that does nothing at all. Also the torps nice, and with the concealment build the detection is down from to 6,2 km which is only 400 meters more than the Benson, so it is decent enough for launching torps and considering you mainly only use the torps then it is pretty good as you got from 6,2 to 8,5 km to steath torp. At first i hated it, but once it got the 150's it began to be able to work as a destroyer as the 150's land hard on other DD's where as the 128's barely scratch the paint on destroyers, not to forget the arc of the 150 is much better. But you basically want to stay hidden as long as possible unless you have 2-3 ships near you or the enemy is busy fighting other ships, as using the guns is instant death if you use them without thinking, it's not like USN or RU ships where you spam at everything with German DD's you to only use the guns when you have to / when it is safe. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VC381 Players 2,928 posts 6,549 battles Report post #53 Posted January 5, 2017 Thanks, that sounds good! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[2OP] Beardroid91 Players 357 posts 13,853 battles Report post #54 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Any of you notice how the German 150's on the Gaede and Z-23 gives an 8 km detection increase, while the tier 6 Nurnberg's 150's only give a 4,5 km increase and the rest of the 15x mm guns on cruisers only give a 4,5-4,6 detection increase, and yet the German DD's get 8 km increase. ?! I really don't know how WG could have messed it up so much, it is 3,5 km to much. And if the DD's should have that detection then their 150's range should match the German cruisers 15 km or alteast to 12-13 km as 10,9 isn't enough when you have a 14,2 detection bloom when you shoot the guns with the Z-23 running a steath build at 6,2 km, so it is completely messed up. Edited January 5, 2017 by Cpt_BrownBear Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Mayv Players 1,952 posts 7,021 battles Report post #55 Posted January 5, 2017 Any of you notice how the German 150's on the Gaede and Z-23 gives an 8 km detection increase, while the tier 6 Nurnberg's 150's only give a 4,5 km increase and the rest of the 15x mm guns on cruisers only give a 4,5-4,6 detection increase, and yet the German DD's get 8 km increase. ?! I really don't know how WG could have messed it up so much, it is 3,5 km to much. And if the DD's should have that detection then their 150's range should match the German cruisers 15 km or alteast to 12-13 km as 10,9 isn't enough when you have a 14,2 detection bloom when you shoot the guns with the Z-23 running a steath build at 6,2 km, so it is completely messed up. WG have recently said firing from stealth (a feature that has been in the game since alpha) was a mistake/accidentally added and are working on removing it. KM DDs was the first line released after this and have a ~8km penalty on their guns to prevent it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[2OP] Beardroid91 Players 357 posts 13,853 battles Report post #56 Posted January 6, 2017 WG have recently said firing from stealth (a feature that has been in the game since alpha) was a mistake/accidentally added and are working on removing it. KM DDs was the first line released after this and have a ~8km penalty on their guns to prevent it. Heard that too, but didn't think WG was stupid enough to only do it one DD line, as it should have been a global change to them all, but this detection increase is nerfed to hard, as some cruisers can stealth fire well below the 14-15 km detection bloom of the German DD's, anyone remember a certain ship called Belfast it can stealth fire from 13,3 km while the say the Z-23 is spotted up to 14,2 km in it's stealthest form so not at all fair. So like anything WG has touched as of late it is broken, just like the new RPF skill will be. And the only way the gun detection bloom will be somewhat acceptable will be if they remove radars and buff DD's smoke or make DD's faster and more maneuverable, which they clearly didn't do with the German trash we try to play. But once they make the detection increase global to all DD lines they everyone will just fire torps which WG didn't want to have happen, so WG is burning both sides of the fuse, and people might just quit the game if they can't play DD's like they used to, so WG is about to get into even more stormy seas, and they might just sink as they keep listening the noobs in the battleships who can't play. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeneraIlKrizmuz Players 101 posts Report post #57 Posted January 6, 2017 Making surface detect after firing overlap with the firing range would make them much better ships, despite not being able to stealth fire. personally I don't even know why yall grinding that crap line. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Mayv Players 1,952 posts 7,021 battles Report post #58 Posted January 6, 2017 firing debuff hurts you waaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond stealthfire (in)capability. Making surface detect after firing overlap with the firing range would make them much better ships, despite not being able to stealth fire. Definitely hurts more than just not being able to stealth fire. Fighting DDs on caps or even pushing up on smoke to use your hydro, you usually end up spotted by some BB 13km away. It really does discourage the use of guns at times. personally I don't even know why yall grinding that crap line I free xped to the Garde at tier 6, which was alright. The Maass at tier 7 is awful in my opinion, maybe it would benefit a lot from CE. The Z-23 however has been working well for me. The 150 guns are the better option in my opinion and the extra torpedo range makes them much more usable. Don't know if I will continue up the line. It will be after I get another captain anyway. Z-23 is looking like the gem of the line, at least for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VC381 Players 2,928 posts 6,549 battles Report post #59 Posted January 6, 2017 I just spotted the Z-23 has 12% fire chance with the 150mm. Err... Wut?! And it's unaffected by AFT so DE is a strong option there. Gonna get Maass today, looking forward to this T8 now though! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #60 Posted January 6, 2017 (edited) I just spotted the Z-23 has 12% fire chance with the 150mm. Err... Wut?! Not as good as you might think, when you count in the RoF of the guns. Meanwhile, to all you T-22 haters, i find the T-22 to be a better ship then the Z-52...... personally I don't even know why yall grinding that crap line. Cuz i wanna play DDs, after play the game for a Year and half now... And gotta Catch them all. Edited January 6, 2017 by Srle_Vigilante Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Mayv Players 1,952 posts 7,021 battles Report post #61 Posted January 6, 2017 Not as good as you might think, when you count in the RoF of the guns. There is also 5 150 guns (1x2 + 3x1) compared to the 4 128s (4x1) on the Z-23. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #62 Posted January 6, 2017 There is also 5 150 guns (1x2 + 3x1) compared to the 4 128s (4x1) on the Z-23. With the upgraded Hull only i might add that too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeneraIlKrizmuz Players 101 posts Report post #63 Posted January 6, 2017 Cuz i wanna play DDs, after play the game for a Year and half now... And gotta Catch them all. Limiting yourself to only one nation is your own decision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #64 Posted January 6, 2017 Limiting yourself to only one nation is your own decision. Yup, it is and im not complaining. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[2OP] Beardroid91 Players 357 posts 13,853 battles Report post #65 Posted January 6, 2017 Not as good as you might think, when you count in the RoF of the guns. Meanwhile, to all you T-22 haters, i find the T-22 to be a better ship then the Z-52...... The Z-23 gets a better shell than the tier 5-6 German cruisers get, DD's get HE 2200 12% AP 3700 at 6,7s and 835 ms. and Cruisers get HE 1700 8% AP 3900 at 7,5s and 6s and 960 ms. so i think the German DD's 150mm option is pretty strong, but it is just a suicidal choice to use the guns so many don't use them enough. Btw. is the Z-52 really that terrible to be worse than the T-22, if so then i'm shocked... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #66 Posted January 6, 2017 Btw. is the Z-52 really that terrible to be worse than the T-22, if so then i'm shocked... *Rant intensifies* Well lets see the Improvements over the Z-46: Range, Torp range, Gun sounds, sonar, AA and speed i guess. What does it do well compared to others. Torps are worse then every other ship, Maybe Kebab is worse. Guns are worse then everything Excluding shima, sometimes even shima outperforms, just becuase Better HE damage. Concealment... We all know what the issue here is. So what you have at Tier 10, is a ship that cannot face any other DDs because its AP and HE are absolute trash, while its trying to torp ships from 10 km (8.4 if you are me) and stealth firing from 13.7 Km (its as useful as it sounds, please remove Stealth firing, is OP). Honestly Z-46 is a better Tier 10 then the Z-52 just because it has shima detection of 5.9 km... *Rant deintensifies* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xXx_Blogis_xXx Alpha Tester, Players 5,335 posts 35,510 battles Report post #67 Posted January 7, 2017 well z23 not a bad but god that turn radius horrible , also prob will leave ger dd line at t8 , they not even fit as gunboats , which i like , and i dislike torp boats , but prob will grind till t9 , but leave it for ranked games Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #68 Posted January 7, 2017 ve ger dd line at t8 , the Actually consider the t9, its not that bad. Dont go further tho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Mayv Players 1,952 posts 7,021 battles Report post #69 Posted January 8, 2017 Actually consider the t9, its not that bad. Dont go further tho. How do the 128s on it compare to the earlier ones? If they are the same I cant see myself enjoying it too much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #70 Posted January 8, 2017 How do the 128s on it compare to the earlier ones? If they are the same I cant see myself enjoying it too much. They are mostly the same as the Maass, but i find them to have a bit better Velocity. Other then that its just the gun layout in turrets that makes it better. Obiously the turrets are very fast and the angles that the back ones can shoot at are really good. Other then that you get 1 more gun the the Maass. So yep. Everything gun stat vise is same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iron_Gekko Beta Tester 497 posts 8,762 battles Report post #71 Posted January 11, 2017 Not as good as you might think, when you count in the RoF of the guns. Meanwhile, to all you T-22 haters, i find the T-22 to be a better ship then the Z-52...... Is it? Z-52 is not a new or forgiving ship. She can however pull of some stunts that no other ship in the game can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #72 Posted January 11, 2017 Is it? Z-52 is not a new or forgiving ship. She can however pull of some stunts that no other ship in the game can. Please name a few of those "stunts". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iron_Gekko Beta Tester 497 posts 8,762 battles Report post #73 Posted January 11, 2017 Please name a few of those "stunts". (variations may very depending on situation) Hydro + smoke + bow side of CA's and DD's + German Unique AP + (Citadel sometimes) can end up with a shocking DPM output without even firing torps. I actively hunt and kill opposing DD's (sometimes CA's if the situation is right) since they cannot hide in smoke (they cant see you but you see them perfectly) and without team support, they generally cannot outfight you, in most cases they just prefer to run without accurate return fire. Its the ultimate risk vs reward, there is nothing "safe" about it the average DD prefers spending the game hidden somewhere and only shoot and torp when its at their advantage. If you take the HP boost instead of the +20 range and gear your Z-52 up for a knife fight instead of a long range "safe" HE hose it becomes a somewhat different ship... If you play solely for stats, yes you will be disappointed as games will be completely fun or completely tragic (normally the latter part) Why? Do you have any constructive tips for playing the Z-52 or is it just a negative derp trip for anything you dont like? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeneraIlKrizmuz Players 101 posts Report post #74 Posted January 12, 2017 (variations may very depending on situation) Hydro + smoke + bow side of CA's and DD's + German Unique AP + (Citadel sometimes) can end up with a shocking DPM output without even firing torps. I actively hunt and kill opposing DD's (sometimes CA's if the situation is right) since they cannot hide in smoke (they cant see you but you see them perfectly) and without team support, they generally cannot outfight you, in most cases they just prefer to run without accurate return fire. Its the ultimate risk vs reward, there is nothing "safe" about it the average DD prefers spending the game hidden somewhere and only shoot and torp when its at their advantage. If you take the HP boost instead of the +20 range and gear your Z-52 up for a knife fight instead of a long range "safe" HE hose it becomes a somewhat different ship... If you play solely for stats, yes you will be disappointed as games will be completely fun or completely tragic (normally the latter part) Why? Do you have any constructive tips for playing the Z-52 or is it just a negative derp trip for anything you dont like? Started laughing when you said other DDs can't fight you 1on1 FYI the Z-52 gets murdered and dissolved with chemicals in a bathtub by anything russian, mutilated by anything american and taken at least 2/3 of her HP off by yugumo and shima 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thonar Beta Tester 626 posts Report post #75 Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Do People forget here the fast reload rate on German DD-Torps? I'm not the experienced DD-Skipper but it seems it is nearly twice as fast as of the other nations... Edited January 12, 2017 by Thonar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
