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Zathras_Grimm

CVs please use fighters!

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I'd be interested to know any reasons why this may be an invalid ask, but every game where the enemy has had fighters they have won through air superiority.

 

Granted my 2 AA is going to do nothing but I seriously had fighters buzzing around my head all match with bombers continually bombing me (at least 6 different occasions with about 4-6 torpedo drops too). I suppose I should be happy he concentrated his efforts on me, but we still lost.


 

To rub salt into the wounds when I actually spotted him he took off like a f'ing rocket; I kid you not lol (ZUIHO). Langley was well hidden elsewhere. What WARP factor engine do they have, rudder dodging was pretty good too? :honoring: All that time and not one aircraft shot down. (Where's the smiley with tears???) :D

 

Edit: He even congratulated me on a good duel; what duel? It was like Eddie Murphy's sketch of the first black president (dodging here and dodging there)!

Edited by Zathras_Grimm

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Well thats the main goal for a CV player. To take out the enemie DD's as quick as Possible. If he just attacked you means he wanted you out of the game.

 

You have 2 options:

1. Engage and trie to give the team still support even if the CV tries to kill you.

2. Disengage and try to go back to your team, so the can give you AA support.

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[NBS]
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Air superiority does not win you games.

Sinking destroyers and doing DOT to BBs wins you the game.

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Well thats the main goal for a CV player. To take out the enemie DD's as quick as Possible. If he just attacked you means he wanted you out of the game.

 

You have 2 options:

1. Engage and trie to give the team still support even if the CV tries to kill you.

2. Disengage and try to go back to your team, so the can give you AA support.

 

I killed 4 and we still lost. I don't know how I killed 4 as my torps must have been visible as soon as I fired them although 2 may have been from guns.

 

I went to right of map, then moved to enter their cap to try and pull their advance back, then went to our cap to defend against a DD then went back towards their cap to try and kill the CV. Big Race was the battle/map(?).

 

 

@Silence5: Air superiority won the game for them; it enabled them to kill our 2 CVs aircrafts, then use the torps and bombers to kill 6 of the team. They had one Myogi and 2 CVs left. We had me.  :honoring:

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[LO1]
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CV that go more for the fighter load outs.... ok so they negate (well maybe) the enemy CV once thats done they might be usfull for spotting DDs but there ability to do damage is reduce and that in turn will mean they get less out of the game rewards as in XP and creds. where as the guy they was trying to take out gone strike mode to the full... before he loses all his aircraft (tbh if he smart and uses his team to help cover his strike aircraft this is not a given :p ) has maybe taken a few DD out (on domination thats a BIG factor on winning) and maybe got some nice damage on BBs.... and if that CV pilot waits to strike a BB thats used a repair party can mean big damage and a big help to his team.  now myself find most players that want "aircraft fighter cover" are yolo players sailing of on there own somewere and get in trouble and this makes it very hard for a CV to help you as well.

 

and if a CV has fighters he will use them to get the payload to the target... that may sound horrible team play but, he wants to keep him self and his aircraft alive to... hitting a enemy hard puts more pressure on the enemy CV and its a class that your very busy... harder it is the more mistakes made... like sailing in view of the enemy... bad drops even picking bad targets (strong AA ships)  I try to not to pay attention to my CV on my team... let them be and let them get on with it, if you got it in your head that its ok he can protect you, your doing it wrong.

 

And go try playing CV get higher and when your trying to control your ship 6 plus aircraft keep an eye on the game make manual drops.... it can be very busy work... or even next time test server is up try them then.

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[UTW]
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The thing is : you can't completely negate the enemy CV even with a good Air Superiority setup. They have more attack plane, and they will anyway win the damage race against you, no matter how many planes you destroy. Especially if they use the balanced IJN setup which allows the fighters to keep the AS CV busy while they do damage with their TB.

It's especially true in tier 8 and more, where there are so many attack squadrons in a strike setup.

 

AS CV never win games. Strike and balanced setup do.

 

It's a shame WG is still stubbornly trying to promote AS setup while they are just BAD at doing a proper job in the game...

 

Anyway, even with 2/2/2 Shokaku, if I'm not busy keeping the enemy fighters busy with mine, my primary use of the fighters would be spotting DDs for my team.

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The one stat you should consider that if a Strike CV gets one or two good attacks on enemy ships then they've already beaten the AS CV pretty much regardless of whatever else both CVs do.

 

50k of damage takes a long time to do with dive bombers even if you are a decent manual dropper...

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I'd be interested to know any reasons why this may be an invalid ask, but every game where the enemy has had fighters they have won through air superiority.

 

Granted my 2 AA is going to do nothing but I seriously had fighters buzzing around my head all match with bombers continually bombing me (at least 6 different occasions with about 4-6 torpedo drops too). I suppose I should be happy he concentrated his efforts on me, but we still lost.

 

 

To rub salt into the wounds when I actually spotted him he took off like a f'ing rocket; I kid you not lol (ZUIHO). Langley was well hidden elsewhere. What WARP factor engine do they have, rudder dodging was pretty good too? :honoring: All that time and not one aircraft shot down. (Where's the smiley with tears???) :D

 

Edit: He even congratulated me on a good duel; what duel? It was like Eddie Murphy's sketch of the first black president (dodging here and dodging there)!

 

I'd be interested to know any reasons....

 

 

.... why DDs dont use smoke to cover a group of ships when the oportunity to wipe a flank of enemy ships coming your way presents itself... you know just like a DD isn't obligated to use smoke and cover allies neither is a CV to use his fighters if they are to be employed somewhere else.

 

OR 

 

The CV cap has no fighters ( like i didnt use to have when i sailed the Independence ).

 

Here's a tip for you, press P and disable your AA. 

Edited by Ast3lan

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Beta Tester, In AlfaTesters
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Fighter CV's are the most useless thing ever. You can never lock down all enemy planes since you have too little fighters, and he can just troll all over you. I had it countless times that i lured enemy fighters with my TB away while my DB's delivered 30k dmg strikes to enemy BB. I end up with 100-150k dmg games even thou enemy was swarmign around with his fighters all round, while he did like 30-50k dmg only becasue he lacked firepower. When he noticed and started chasing my DB's i sent in the TB's for more dmg. I encounter so many people playing AS setups and being so utterly useless to the team effort that i could puke all over the place. 

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Beta Tester, In AlfaTesters
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The one stat you should consider that if a Strike CV gets one or two good attacks on enemy ships then they've already beaten the AS CV pretty much regardless of whatever else both CVs do.

 

50k of damage takes a long time to do with dive bombers even if you are a decent manual dropper...

 

Well, Ranger and everything above can do 50k in one run if done right. So thats not thaaat hard.

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Drive your DD into protective AA of a friendly cruiser or BB and lose the planes. Once the CV no longer has an idea where you are, try to play in a position where the planes won't spot you. Don't get between the CV and his target. With enemy CV holding air superiority over the cap, that cap has to be won with other means, such as BBs and CAs driving into cap while you cap it in stealth, located behind or in the middle of them. You can also spot for the team from a flanking location that isn't between the CV and his target.

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Ok, unsure how Ast3lan is trying to answer the question :amazed: (maybe he got confused :D),  but I appreciate the rest who have given answers. Of the 8 games there were 3 that had complete fighter load outs; those won due to the fact that they highlighted the DDs leading to the death of our DDs. Then their DDs decimated the rest and took our CVs out to.

 

The other 5 matches the CVs seemed to have at least 2 fighters, I don't know the limit of aircraft a CV can have but in one match I'm sure one CV had 5 sqns in the air (or maybe it just seemed that way lol).


 

However, all though it is a team game I can understand why the fighter set up will not help a CV player - Yes you may help in some cases to lead your team to a win, but if you do not see a good return then I understand.


 

Redcap: unsure if AS means all fighters, if so then it wasn't dead for 3 of the matches tonight :)


 

And Ast3lan (:D): I do smoke and scout, however I am still amazed at those BB drivers that drive straight through it lol. And I am fully aware that I am not the only person on the team, my question was asking why it isn't used more when it seems to be so effective. I appreciate your attempt though (whatever you were trying to get of your chest lol) :P

 

Edit: Agantas, if I can I will try to get to where there is AA available, I think the fact that 2 CVs were in the majority of games I played (possibly due to the holidays), I didn't have a lot of places to hide and still try to scout, attack enemy and defend the cap. Then again, I did manage to survive lol :honoring:

 

Corvi: Yours was the biggest definitive reason why not to, although it wasn't the case in the games I played today, I am happy to get the answers from those that play CVs (which is why I asked on the forum).


 

Many thanks! :honoring:

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The only way WG would get it to work is to add another fighter group per CV for AS layouts! Simple as that...done. That took 5 secs to sort out.

 

CVs are a numbers game and AS are outnumbered.  But people still wouldn't play them for many reasons.

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Air superiority does not win you games.

Sinking destroyers and doing DOT to BBs wins you the game.

 

Agree with this one.

I play sometimes US CV's and I hate air superiority build. Its the easiest build to play in game which cause problems to other CV in battle who actualy have some skills.

My build on Ranger is 1/1/1, and that is the best build for me.

2/0/1 or 2/0/2 are builds for begginers and I see to many AS CV's in game. Much more then torpedos.

Edited by Hades_warrior
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I suggest that you play a CV yourself and see how they work. Try to be that CV you want to have when playing DDs. Aircraft are much faster than ships, so playing with fighters can be more difficult than it sounds. I suggest watching WG EU's tutorial video about CV controls before you start.

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I'm being deadserious now: in fact I hardly ever notice the presence of a CV at all ingame... Having had 1 of the worst sessions ever tonight, I saw in the (horrible) post battle results there were CV's ingame. That was the first time I noticed them... I am openly asking if they have any role at all in Wow's anymore?

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[NIKE]
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I'm guessing you're not hugely familiar with the loadouts for CV. Since you refer to enemy Langley and zuiho I'm guessing you had a bogue on your team.

 

The bogue has 3 loadouts;

The first has one unit of fighters and one unit of torps. What happens here is if he moves uses the fighters to help scout/fight enemy planes his own TB are left on their own and get killed by enemy fighters. With low reserves this quickly means he runs out of TB. If he sends the fighters to protect his bombers then they can't be helping you out.

 

The second has 2 units of fighters and 1 unit of dive bombers. The fighters are pretty good at killing other planes and scouting. The dive bombers aren't very good and do minimal damage. If they start a fire the enemy just put it out. This loadout doesn't really do much and is generally considered a noob trap. The real criminal part is the bogue uses tier 6 torp bombers and this loadout has none.

 

The third (and most popular) consists of 2x dive bombers and a unit of torp bombers. Although there's no fighters to protect the TB people sacrifice one of the DB squads to get the other 2 through. If left unmolested by fighters this set up can rack up a lot of damage because you drop the torps first, get a hit and flood. When they repair you then hit the DB and watch them burn to death as their repair is on cool down. This isn't possible with either of the other two loadouts.

With this set up the best way for them to counter enemy planes is simply to go sink the enemy CV early into the game

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[BLOBS]
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The thing is : you can't completely negate the enemy CV even with a good Air Superiority setup. They have more attack plane, and they will anyway win the damage race against you, no matter how many planes you destroy. Especially if they use the balanced IJN setup which allows the fighters to keep the AS CV busy while they do damage with their TB.

It's especially true in tier 8 and more, where there are so many attack squadrons in a strike setup.

 

AS CV never win games. Strike and balanced setup do.

 

It's a shame WG is still stubbornly trying to promote AS setup while they are just BAD at doing a proper job in the game...

 

Anyway, even with 2/2/2 Shokaku, if I'm not busy keeping the enemy fighters busy with mine, my primary use of the fighters would be spotting DDs for my team.

 

​The Point is mote if they can protect their DDs and sink/damage/spot  your. With a cap Advantage you dont Need to win a damage race especally if when at least 2 BBs stick together become dificult to atack anyway by air. AA is scaled to reduce most atacks unless your caught in a bad Situation if you reakt corectly. And you cant atack agist AA AND fighter cover sure you can go for the other flank but if a fighter CV  worked together with CA and DDs and killed your DDs ist hard to make a Comeback even if your side killed an BB or two.

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I have loads of sucess with the air superiority though my tier is 6. Ryujo.

 

If you know what you are doing you give your team such a boost only the worst teams can lose. First off you pretty much entirely negate the enemy carrier. Secondly you spot destroyers and keep them spotted to the extent they start abusing you in chat usually. You still have attack planes so can do damage supporting your team mates. With this set up I have 68% wins. You still get decent xp with spotting damage and kills.

 

It takes clever thinking and decent positioning but it's the strongest loadout.

 

I would argue the games with uber bad sides are almost unwinnable so I don't think taking strike would win these unless you knew who to target early on. Which is hard to know without hindsight.

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[TORAZ]
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IJN AS somewhat works because you still have torp bombers to deal damage. The problem is starting at T7 latest you'll need the extra torp squad to get through all the AA the game throws at you.

 

It takes clever thinking and decent positioning but it's the strongest loadout.

 

Nah, you'll automatically put yourself and your team at a disadvantage if you play AS and you're up against a decent CV player. I've touched upon this already in previous threads, but as a CV you're expected to shoot down planes, deal damage and scout. By going AS, you automatically give up dealing damage and scouting since:

- generally your damage dealing capabilities are lower

- you can't scout with fighters since you need them to protect your team. IF you scout with a fighter you'll automatically leave your team open for a strike. Alternatively your fighter will become exposed and you'll thus lose air superiority

- if you use a bomber to scout your damage will fall even further

- the other CV can easily intercept your strikes as well. If you choose to escort them with your fighters you'll lose them all since you'll be engaged over enemy AA and you'll leave your team open for strikes

 

Thus you'll be a liability to your team, you'll have pretty much 0 impact on the game AND you'll earn nothing. All for slightly inconveniencing the enemy CV.

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Agree with this one.

I play sometimes US CV's and I hate air superiority build. Its the easiest build to play in game which cause problems to other CV in battle who actualy have some skills.

My build on Ranger is 1/1/1, and that is the best build for me.

2/0/1 or 2/0/2 are builds for begginers and I see to many AS CV's in game. Much more then torpedos.

 

I suggest that you play a CV yourself and see how they work. Try to be that CV you want to have when playing DDs. Aircraft are much faster than ships, so playing with fighters can be more difficult than it sounds. I suggest watching WG EU's tutorial video about CV controls before you start.

 

I'm being deadserious now: in fact I hardly ever notice the presence of a CV at all ingame... Having had 1 of the worst sessions ever tonight, I saw in the (horrible) post battle results there were CV's ingame. That was the first time I noticed them... I am openly asking if they have any role at all in Wow's anymore?

 

I'm guessing you're not hugely familiar with the loadouts for CV. Since you refer to enemy Langley and zuiho I'm guessing you had a bogue on your team.

 

The bogue has 3 loadouts;

The first has one unit of fighters and one unit of torps. What happens here is if he moves uses the fighters to help scout/fight enemy planes his own TB are left on their own and get killed by enemy fighters. With low reserves this quickly means he runs out of TB. If he sends the fighters to protect his bombers then they can't be helping you out.

 

The second has 2 units of fighters and 1 unit of dive bombers. The fighters are pretty good at killing other planes and scouting. The dive bombers aren't very good and do minimal damage. If they start a fire the enemy just put it out. This loadout doesn't really do much and is generally considered a noob trap. The real criminal part is the bogue uses tier 6 torp bombers and this loadout has none.

 

The third (and most popular) consists of 2x dive bombers and a unit of torp bombers. Although there's no fighters to protect the TB people sacrifice one of the DB squads to get the other 2 through. If left unmolested by fighters this set up can rack up a lot of damage because you drop the torps first, get a hit and flood. When they repair you then hit the DB and watch them burn to death as their repair is on cool down. This isn't possible with either of the other two loadouts.

With this set up the best way for them to counter enemy planes is simply to go sink the enemy CV early into the game

 

Hades _warrior: Thank you; as = Air Superiority = Fighters! (thank you I wasn't sure if that was what it meant lol (seriously!)).

 

 

Agantas: I shudder at the thought lol. Personally I think the CV is probably the hardest class to play; I have that 'barrier' between me and the enemy, whereas the aircraft have to thread between many ships, all around the map, to get to their targets. The CV captain also has to see where he is best able to quickly bring his air power to bear, not easy as things are continually changing. Yes there are many times when I have been out front, had a quick look at the mini map and found our base undefended with enemy DDs still about; then find myself going from the front of the line to the back to try and rescue cap lol. However, that is knowing my immediate surroundings and task, along with keeping an eye on the game objective (the base capture/defence). CV captains need to view all areas of the map at all times, as they can pretty much 'drop' their TBs/DBs into a fight and change the path of that particular battle (and the game?). Edit: and I can't believe how fast you seem to be lol

 

What do you feel about how CVs are performing? I find that sometimes I will spot an enemy DD and have to warn my CVs (as they are  maybe 5-6 squares away), but one doesn't move. I then chase back, asking him to move, kill the DD, asking CV to move, smoke to shield as 2 CAs are on their way, asking him to move.....and still he stays still? We managed to cap their base and win (and the CV survived lol), but  I'm assuming that controlling the aircraft all over the map sometimes keeps you from realising the danger to your actual ship sometimes?

 

 

Ferry_25: I think it is down to the role they decide is best when the game unfolds. Maybe they were concentrating on torping the larger ships? I know if I am lucky enough to torp a CA or BB early in the match because he's barrelling down the map, all of a sudden I might get some air attention (probably because their team is screaming for air cover to spot the DD!). CVs have been very effective in the games I played yesterday and I have to say I dread seeing them on a team list because I know they can badly restrict my play if they decide to concentrate on me. (Maybe there is something to having lots of DDs in a game lol - too many for aircraft to keep track!). I have seen them effectively play the finishing torp drop to a BB that has been damaged. In fact many have followed my torps up with a strike that sinks the ship (clever thinking really). Although I will curse if I have launched torps only to see the BB that was sailing straight now turns as he sees the TBs on their way lol.

 

 

Xevious_Red: Just had a look and our team had the same CVs. I guess they just got caught on the hop and lost out to better players(?) I thought the Bogue was the worst CV (stat -wise anyway)? A nice explanation of the troubles a CV captain has to go through when considering how to use his aircraft effectively, thank you.

 

 

Thanks to all for giving me more insight into CV play. :honoring:

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I have loads of sucess with the air superiority though my tier is 6. Ryujo.

 

If you know what you are doing you give your team such a boost only the worst teams can lose. First off you pretty much entirely negate the enemy carrier. Secondly you spot destroyers and keep them spotted to the extent they start abusing you in chat usually. You still have attack planes so can do damage supporting your team mates. With this set up I have 68% wins. You still get decent xp with spotting damage and kills.

 

It takes clever thinking and decent positioning but it's the strongest loadout.

 

I would argue the games with uber bad sides are almost unwinnable so I don't think taking strike would win these unless you knew who to target early on. Which is hard to know without hindsight.

 

Yep, I already hate you! :D

 

You are right as I have seen it work.

 

Your load out is probably the one I fear most, as I know as soon as you've taken out  the friendly CVs aircraft, you will be coming for the DDs with little AA to do anything about it. If this happens early in the game then I know that the enemy team will still have plenty of ships to fire at me. On top of that, my torpedoes are spotted as soon as they launch.

 

 

Also I can't even actively push further in front of my ships in the hope of hunting you (instead of going for caps, where you will have your aircraft waiting), as there are too many ships between us. My range is then cut down to around 5km from those that I am scouting for so I can at least drop back and maybe some of the aircraft can be shot down. :honoring:

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[POI--]
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No.

                            -Yours sincerely, CVs

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