Incoming cv nerf , with upcoming captain skill changes.

[Redcap375]

It will only be when there going back to the CV, bet you 

 

Am I the only one that makes sure my planes get back to the carrier safely? I mean by avoiding aa deathtraps?  By using the mouse..

[Ace_Raptor]

Am I the only one that makes sure my planes get back to the carrier safely? I mean by avoiding aa deathtraps?  By using the mouse..

 

I do it or at least set a safe waypoint back.

[Elenortirion]

It will only be when there going back to the CV, bet you 

 

Am I the only one that makes sure my planes get back to the carrier safely? I mean by avoiding aa deathtraps?  By using the mouse..

 

depends on the situation - usually I send strike forces to the closest threat [to minimise flight time between strikes] so there aren;t any AA deathtraps between me and target [target himself may be one though ]

 

when I happen to send them somewhere weird then yeah I try to remember to route them back safely...

[Xevious_Red]

A question regarding the spothing of planes vs AA. Will planes that are unspotted take damage from being in an AA aura, or do the AA only fire at spotted targets?

 

Let's imagine a target with 7.2km AA. The planes come in, get spotted at 8km. AA starts firing at 7.2km. Planes do their drop, and start leaving. Using their new skill their detection now drops to 4.8km

When they get to 4.9km they disappear, but are still within 7.2km

Do the AA stop firing? They can no longer be targeted by manual AA, but what about the aura?

[El2aZeR]

AA only fires at visible targets.

[Draconobilis]

If someone wonder , yes , some aa perks costs more points but you have now most expensive perks cost only 4 points and it will by easier get capitan  at max lvl .

[Poster_2015]

Well without getting into details right now, I can say that after analyzing this from the "other side of the fence", I feel it might end up as a buff to carriers. 

 

Its true, that new perks are generally stronger, especially the double plane. However, the main thing is - currently as a BB player i sacrifice basically nothing for the AA buffs. BFT is tier 1 for 1 pt, and AFT/MAA are necessary to get CE (demo or hp doesnt make much sense on BBs). That is the main issue right now - there is zero drawback to speccing *almost fully* AA as a BB. The only tradeoff is concealment expert vs double tier 4 AA skill. This is only amplified on ships like North Carolina-Montana , because 2nd module is range - pretty useless on T8+ US BBs, so naturally you will take the AA range module. This forces BBs into AA specs, and that hurts CVs.

 

Those changes here are actually creating real dilemmas for BBs, and I dont feel they will flock too much into full AA option (unless CVs become very popular all of sudden - not likely, and if they will be popular thats good right?). There is a 3mil module for 25% AA power - how many people actually use it? Its very strong, but it has real competition so it loses out. Same with perks.

 

You might feel that with highest tier skills taking 4 points instead of 5, players will have more points to spare. Thats not true however. Focusing now on BBs, tier 1 is now basically a wasted point, so you lose the gain from cheaper CE here. Everything else is more expensive, BFT is +2pts, BoS is +1pt, there are also new options like accessible jack of all trades etc. There simply is LESS points to go around spending on AA skills, and just from my own plans for my BBs  I can say, AA will get WEAKER. 

[Cadelanne]

Well without getting into details right now, I can say that after analyzing this from the "other side of the fence", I feel it might end up as a buff to carriers. 

 

Its true, that new perks are generally stronger, especially the double plane. However, the main thing is - currently as a BB player i sacrifice basically nothing for the AA buffs. BFT is tier 1 for 1 pt, and AFT/MAA are necessary to get CE (demo or hp doesnt make much sense on BBs). That is the main issue right now - there is zero drawback to speccing *almost fully* AA as a BB. The only tradeoff is concealment expert vs double tier 4 AA skill. This is only amplified on ships like North Carolina-Montana , because 2nd module is range - pretty useless on T8+ US BBs, so naturally you will take the AA range module. This forces BBs into AA specs, and that hurts CVs.

 

Those changes here are actually creating real dilemmas for BBs, and I dont feel they will flock too much into full AA option (unless CVs become very popular all of sudden - not likely, and if they will be popular thats good right?). There is a 3mil module for 25% AA power - how many people actually use it? Its very strong, but it has real competition so it loses out. Same with perks.

 

You might feel that with highest tier skills taking 4 points instead of 5, players will have more points to spare. Thats not true however. Focusing now on BBs, tier 1 is now basically a wasted point, so you lose the gain from cheaper CE here. Everything else is more expensive, BFT is +2pts, BoS is +1pt, there are also new options like accessible jack of all trades etc. There simply is LESS points to go around spending on AA skills, and just from my own plans for my BBs  I can say, AA will get WEAKER. 

 

That's a good point you got here.

[Redcap375]

Let's see shall we..

[VC381]

So it seems WG might finally be starting to understand the fundamental game design concept of "meaningful choice". Let's see how this pans out...

[El2aZeR]

A bunch of skills were changed apparently.

 

https://thearmoredpatrol.com/2016/12/28/wows-further-changes-to-the-new-captain-skills/

 

Evasive Maneuver may actually be worth taking a look at now, but Fiery Takeoff has achieved a new level of uselessness I thought was impossible to reach.

[Ishiro32]

 

I like how WG says it wants to give new options for CVs and then gives them one new skill to consider while the rest is exactly the same.

Why would you want to get rid of the old and pointless skills like dogfighting or rear gunner?

Why would you learn from Saipan release and remove air superiority so all CVs could be balanced around the idea of one setup and not like in case of Saipan immense increase in power of fighters if someone will just move cpt?

Why make fiery takeoff a situational and interesting skill? Just make it so only reliable thing about is it’s huge drawback.

No seriously, what kind of braindead thought that giving this drawback to that skill makes any sense? This is a skill that let’s CV operate better when under fire from DD or CA… so it’s drawback makes that situation ten times worse? It is so counterintuitive it baffles me. The best part is that it wouldn’t be most popular skill in the first place even without it as it’s extremely situational.

 

[Cadelanne]

Fiery takeoff was intresting before, but this ... roflmao this really looks like some kind of Christmas prank, or primary school game desing workshop xD

 

On the other hand, the new Evasive Maneuver looks so strong ! Even if the drawback is really significant, 40% lower detectability before droping means that a super reactive BB will barely have the time to move his rudder before torps are in water. 30% lower speed is a huge debuff aswell, but with the use of CE becoming possible on carriers with this new captain there are chances that we can get really abusive placement so this drawback become less of an issue. I think planes concealment is the biggest stat to carriers, even more important that speed, so giving such a huge concealment buff ... well. We'll see.

[El2aZeR]

Apparently TAP was badly translated, actual patch notes can be found here for those who don't play on the PTR.

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.com/index.php?/topic/109557-060-public-test/

 

 Alternatively they haven't updated the NA forum post. But at least they get them, considering I can't seem to find them on the EU forum (the English speaking one at least).

 

List of all relevant CV changes:

I. Aircraft Servicing Expert — this skill was moved from Level 4 to Level 1.

 

I. Dogfighting Expert — this skill was moved from Level 3 to Level 1. Added a bonus: +10% to ammunition count of fighters.

 

I. Evasive Manoeuver (working title). This is a new skill.

It will decrease the airspeed of strike aircraft
, but also reduce their detectability and increase their survivability when returning to the carrier for recovery.

-30% to airspeed of strike aircraft when returning to the carrier 

-40% to detectability of strike aircraft when returning to the carrier 

+15% to survivability of strike aircraft when returning to the carrier

This skill will not work during retraining.

 

II. Expert Rear Gunner — this skill was moved from Level 1 to Level 2.

 

II. Torpedo Acceleration — this skill was moved from Level 3 to Level 2.

 

III. Torpedo Armament Expertise — this skill was moved from Level 2 to Level 3.

 

III. Emergency Takeoff (working title). This is a new skill.

It will make it possible to launch and recover the aircraft while the ship is on fire.

During fire, a 100% penalty will be applied to the aircraft servicing time

This skill will not work during retraining.

 

III. Demolition Expert — this skill was moved from Level 4 to Level 3. The chance of fire on target was changed from 3% to 2%. Now this skill will also affect secondary armament.

 

IV. Air Supremacy — this skill was moved from Level 5 to Level 4.

 

Thus Fiery Takeoff (now renamed), while not as bad as before, is still hilariously useless, while Evasive Maneuver has returned to being questionable. The HEAP skill (now called "Inertia Fuse for HE shells) apparently also doesn't work for bombs anymore. Dogfighting Expert isn't exactly mandatory either with just a 10% ammo increase unless ofc you're playing a T7 tech tree CV.

Overall costs for all skills is 20. I for one will for sure not pick Emergency Takeoff and will probably forgo Evasive Maneuver as well. Expert Rear Gunner has also lost a lot of its already questionable appeal (I always picked it before, but I wouldn't fault anyone for forgoing it either), but picking Demo Expert seems fairly attractive now even considering its reduced effectiveness.

[Cadelanne]

Well, Evasive Maneuver has returned to its useless state

 

And I don't really get how DE could affect CVs. +2% fire chance is really nothing in regard to the >120% fire chance of all bomb type. Why picking it ? Really sad that it doesn't bring anything exciting except the 4pts max skills.

 

Also, is there a release date for these updated commandes ?

[Draconobilis]

If someone wonder how new aa build works in action :

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/70396-new-aa-build-in-action-enjoy-d/

[VC381]

So I finally went and reviewed the skills and there is a silver lining. With servicing expert moved down to T1, you can get the 4 core skills you really need for a CV (Servicing expert, torpedo acceleration, torpedo armament expertise and air supremacy) with only 10 points and none wasted on a random T1 skill. And, with only 14 points, you can get CE on top of all that, something that was actually impossible before. So... For example, Shokaku could be sporting 9.1km surface detection. That is jaw-dropping and better than almost every cruiser. The possibilities in terms of positioning and shorter strike times are pretty interesting...

 

Or with an 18-point captain you can top up your CV with AFT + Manual AA, again without sacrificing anything you would normally get, and be a total plane deathtrap. True sniping is rare at high tiers but combine for example CE and AFT and you're now doubling up as ninja BB AA escort. Or you could get DE since it now affects bombs...

 

And I don't agree AA builds will become default on BBs. The total 8 points cost for AFT + Manual AA is the same and the skills haven't changed but now there's competition from that fire prevention thingy and some of the other shuffling (e.g. BoS to T3) could make BB builds more expensive overall.

 

So yeah, I'm looking on the bright side here, could be interesting...

[Redcap375]

Chaps...don't even try to sugercoat this thing.

 

We get the same things, regardless about getting them earlier its more newbie friendly, nothing more.

 

CE....CVs will never, I mean never get that close that CE means anything. Unless s#*% has seriously gone down. Could have sworn someone said about BB AA escort?? Must have made that up, well hope I did... 

 

CV sniping still exists? I can only remember once in the past 6 months I've been CV sniped. And I wasn't paying attention (good CV player tho)

 

Look I'm not against change trust me, but are we forgetting the 10% increase on BFT? Or 85mm added onto the manual AA fire? Or 2 spotter planes?

 

DDs and CVs are worse off. BBs are better, who would have thought (also a BB play before you ask). Clever WG, very clever.

 

 

[VC381]

We're not getting the same thing sooner, the XP curve change means you'll only hit 10 captain points when these days you would be hitting 14. We're getting the same thing CHEAPER, a whopping 5 points cheaper, so we can do more with the spare. I don't see why you dismiss the concealment thing so easily, I've played against some CVs that made very clever use of islands to be literally in the middle of the action but still safe, and their impact increased significantly as a result. I think it could be a very powerful tool for those with the skill to micro-manage their positioning.

 

BFT may be stronger but it's also 2 points more expensive, now directly competing with SI, BoS and Vigilance for BBs instead of something you can just throw a spare point at. It's probably more of a buff to DDs anyway...

 

So I'm not sugar coating, I'm genuinely positive about some of the changes, I think as usual too many people are quick to jump to negative conclusions where none are due.

[Redcap375]

Getting too old for this, i tell you what:

Lets meet up in the CV Captains Cabin in a few months time and see who has bragging rights, deal? 

 

On a side note.  My Cleveland will have skill 78 AA and 2 planes knocking around for a tier 6 ship! 

[VC381]

Sure thing anyway BB catapult fighters seem to be getting nerfed so that's a step in the right direction.

[Torpedobeatz]

Just give us AP Bombs for our Dive Bombers jesus holy christ

 

[Poster_2015]

AP bombs were never a thing vs active ships, because they were only used against anchored stationary ships. They were NOT carried by dive bombers, they were dropped from very high altitudes by level bombers (some of torp bombers in game could have them - so they would be traded for torpedoes). If you want some fantasy AP bombs, just ask for stronger DB, no need for even more RNG layers.

 

As for catapult fighters, the last round of changes actually is somewhat of a nerf to carriers - what i said about tradeoffs wont apply anymore, because its the one sensible "1 pointer" for BBs meaning everyone will have it. One extremely annoying "feature" of those planes though, is actually against fighters. Since they have unlimited ammo, i have on occasion lost entire 7 fighter squads because i ran out of ammo, and they just wouldnt let me move after that. If they have unlimited ammo, they shouldnt slow down bombers, and they shouldnt tie down fighters (but could slow them down). 

[procrastinatingStudent]

At least the fighter planes would only be for 60 seconds not 360 from qhat i hear so that a trade

[El2aZeR]

AP bombs were never a thing vs active ships, because they were only used against anchored stationary ships. They were NOT carried by dive bombers

 

DBs could carry AP bombs (hell, I think even fighters could), which were widely available later in the war (although the overall number of AP bombs a US CV would typically carry was small). Pretty sure they used them to sink Musashi, too, one bomb penetrating 2 decks and disabling an engine room with collateral damage (but not actually penetrating her citadel roof). I can't imagine a normal or even semi-AP bomb to do that.

Dunno if any were used to sink Yamato, but it would make sense to use them if you have them.

I believe the standard bomb for basically everyone was semi-AP. That's pretty much what we have in the game.

 

DBs need a better skill check which should remove a bit of RNGesus, after that you could narrow down the spread of US DBs. They can already hit incredibly hard, they're just not reliable in doing so. Giving them AP bombs would be overkill.