Nation specific BB traits

[Affeks]

So far we know:

IJN -  Good dispersion, Good alpha, Good secondaries, bad damage control

USN - Very good AA, Good alpha, Good damage control, bad secondaries

KM - Very good long range AA, good armor (turtleback), good secondaries, hydro (yeah wtf why do they have this as well makes no sense imo, it completely ruins the KM CAs niche)

 

So this leaves RN, MN, RM and VMF BBs afaik

personally I would at least want to see

RN - Good damage control, good repair party, good short-med range AA

 

Update:
MN - Good AA, good turret layout in some tiers, good mobility (?), bad dispersion (1.7 sigma for most quad turrets?)

RN BC - dpm increase/detonation risk consumable, same dmg con/repair party as RN BBs (?), no planes with upgraded hulls from tier 8+ (?)

RM BB - engine boost consumable (?)

 

As for the rest I'm not quite sure, both ideas sparked by gameplay or historical reasons are welcome

 

(edit: try to leave out ship specific traits, like sigma, gun layout, speed etc. Consumables are okay)

[Affeks]

Personally I have always wanted secondaries to be more involved in the gameplay, not that they should be buffed, but that its at least more play to it than just manually target an enemy here and there.

 

So heres a few ideas

Secondary Barrage consumable of some kind, that either increases the range, rate of fire or accuracy for short time. This could make timing this right could be rewarding in some way I dunno.

The ability to switch between AP and HE secondaries. I mean it could be cool if this was a trait, making the secondaries a bit more versatile without really buffing them directly.

Layared secondary range, large caliber secondaries (like 152 mms) gets longer range, while smaller caliber secondaries (like 100/127 mms) gets lower range

Secondary Volley consumable. Either a set number times or for x seconds you can manually fire secondaries. At this point I'm just throwing wild ideas in here.

[1MajorKoenig]

Would like to see RN Battlecruisers first.

 

"Flavour": fast, relatively big guns, little armour, new consumable for higher rate of fire at the cost of increased detonation risk

 

As for the BBs - look at Warspite and you have it.

 

Soviet BBs - insane rail guns with crazy range, v0 and accuracy (hope not game breaking!!!!) at the cost of a little armour. Plus Radar from T8 up probably minus the plane.

 

French BBs - bad dispersion, bad armour and decent mobility would be my guess

[VC381]

It's very difficult to set a "flavor" for a whole line because nations did make different ships and changed design philosophy. Biggest difference is between WWI and 1930s/WWII designs that basically flip a whole nation flavor on its head e.g. US from T8 on.

 

I agree with Koenig though, if they wanted something really unique for RN they should do battlecruisers first with some wacky consumable (maybe not something that polarizing as RoF in exchange for detonation, but speed boost could be cool).

 

The nations that didn't build many BBs would be all over the place as they often built small classes far apart with completely different tech. Hard to squeeze them into a consistent "flavor". That's why I would rather they didn't force it too much, better have more real and realistic ships

[Affeks]

Would like to see RN Battlecruisers first.

 

"Flavour": fast, relatively big guns, little armour, new consumable for higher rate of fire at the cost of increased detonation risk

 

As for the BBs - look at Warspite and you have it.

 

Soviet BBs - insane rail guns with crazy range, v0 and accuracy (hope not game breaking!!!!) at the cost of a little armour. Plus Radar from T8 up probably minus the plane.

 

French BBs - bad dispersion, bad armour and decent mobility would be my guess

 

Oh my god a [edited]love the idead about the RN Battlecruiser consumable. Both Historically and gameplay wise this is genious!

 

As for RN BBs Warspite was my inspiration, Good repair, Good dmg con and the good AA would come in higher tiers anyways when Bofors become the mainstay

 

VMF BBs always confused me, but I guess you're right. Looking at the ships (Project 23, 24, 69, 82) they all have high v0 guns with high range. I can see p23/24 have thick armor, but the quality of the steel highly discussed, maybe you're right abou that low armor, especially if p69/82 also makes the tree.

 

As for france I can't really see where that mobility comes from. Dunkek starts to turn faster (even tho the rudder and circle is mediocre) so my guess something like that. Other than that lower tier BBs are slow so theres that. I guess high tier turret layout is good and high tier AA is pretty good, but I feel it needs one more at least.

[Affeks]

It's very difficult to set a "flavor" for a whole line because nations did make different ships and changed design philosophy. Biggest difference is between WWI and 1930s/WWII designs that basically flip a whole nation flavor on its head e.g. US from T8 on.

 

I agree with Koenig though, if they wanted something really unique for RN they should do battlecruisers first with some wacky consumable (maybe not something that polarizing as RoF in exchange for detonation, but speed boost could be cool).

 

The nations that didn't build many BBs would be all over the place as they often built small classes far apart with completely different tech. Hard to squeeze them into a consistent "flavor". That's why I would rather they didn't force it too much, better have more real and realistic ships

 

Setting a flavor isnt that hard even tho ship specific design philosophies changed. Look USN BBs have good AA and dmg control all the way so theres that. Even though the IJN BB tree is a mix of BCs and BBs they still have the same flavor all the way, good dispersion, bad AA, long range etc...  But anyways I kinda agree with you on the realistic ship part, but that is reflected in the US were known to have good dmg control and Japan were known to be bad with it. So I'm not trying to force anything here, just looking if people have any knowledge of similar historical facts that fit well with a gameplay concept.

[piritskenyer]

MN will probably have good mobility, okay-to-good AA, okay-to-good armour and from T6 onwards up until T9 (Alsace) and TX, forward-facing main armament in quad turrets.

[Affeks]

kinda off topic, but looking at the gun Stalingrad/project 82 would get its noted that it had a "long range shell". Its half the weigh of a normal shell so much less damage, but it has a velocity of 1300 mps. This could be a ship specific trait as a 3rd ammo option that deals way less damage, but is easier to hit with. Penetration wise idk if the weight loss/v0 increase ratio would equal out the penetration value.. thoughts?

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_12-62_m1948.htm

[deadly_if_swallowed]

So heres a few ideas

 

Secondary Barrage consumable of some kind, that either increases the range, rate of fire or accuracy for short time. This could make timing this right could be rewarding in some way I dunno.

 

The ability to switch between AP and HE secondaries. I mean it could be cool if this was a trait, making the secondaries a bit more versatile without really buffing them directly.

 

Layared secondary range, large caliber secondaries (like 152 mms) gets longer range, while smaller caliber secondaries (like 100/127 mms) gets lower range

 

Secondary Volley consumable. Either a set number times or for x seconds you can manually fire secondaries. At this point I'm just throwing wild ideas in here.

 

Is there a nation or fleet with battleships that got really really close and personal in battle? Maybe you can use Secondary Barrage to have your mid-range AA guns fire at the enemy ship as well, slightly (but constantly) damaging non-armored ships and take out enemy surface modules like AA guns etc. Not sure about the elevation angles of guns like the 40mm Bofors but I guess some rapid firing 40mm mounts can sweep a deck empty in no time. Highly situational given the relatively short range, but if nothing else it would at least add some pirate feeling to any ramming action or driveby shots

[Exocet6951]

MN will probably have good mobility, okay-to-good AA, okay-to-good armour and from T6 onwards up until T9 (Alsace) and TX, forward-facing main armament in quad turrets.

 

We're looking at a branch with the typical slow ships with potato guns from tier3 to 5, then either a branch that either keeps 380mm guns from tier7 or 8 all the way to tier10, each tier tacking on an extra quad turret reaching a total of 16 guns, or one slightly more reasonable branch that eculminates with a ship sporting 9 450mm guns.

 

Personally I'm hoping for the former. 16 (undersized) guns on a ship with the size, armor and speed of an Iowa sounds hilarious. 

Though I suspect it won't be approved, because how the hell do you make that sort of ship not obliterate cruisers?

[Affeks]

 

Is there a nation or fleet with battleships that got really really close and personal in battle? Maybe you can use Secondary Barrage to have your mid-range AA guns fire at the enemy ship as well, slightly (but constantly) damaging non-armored ships and take out enemy surface modules like AA guns etc. Not sure about the elevation angles of guns like the 40mm Bofors but I guess some rapid firing 40mm mounts can sweep a deck empty in no time. Highly situational given the relatively short range, but if nothing else it would at least add some pirate feeling to any ramming action or driveby shots

 

I don't remember where i read it, but it has happened that destroyers got really close to other destroyers or larger vessels at which point many AA guns were firing at each other. This was ofc mostly just to kill other deck crew in an attempt to stop damage control operations or creating chaos by making the bridge or deck a hazardous place to be and making precise orders difficult to achieve. So in game this could at best disable AA guns.

 

We're looking at a branch with the typical slow ships with potato guns from tier3 to 5, then either a branch that either keeps 380mm guns from tier7 or 8 all the way to tier10, each tier tacking on an extra quad turret reaching a total of 16 guns, or one slightly more reasonable branch that eculminates with a ship sporting 9 450mm guns.

 

Personally I'm hoping for the former. 16 (undersized) guns on a ship with the size, armor and speed of an Iowa sounds hilarious. 

Though I suspect it won't be approved, because how the hell do you make that sort of ship not obliterate cruisers?

 

I also hope for the quad turrets to be at tier 10 as well, 4x4 is a bit difficult to balance, but 3x4 with 406mms could work? I don' know about any plans for it, but personally its what I'm hoping for.

 

But yes giving the line the flavor of "being fast" or "mobile" is really difficult since WW1 BBs were basically all slow, and so far slow fat dreadnoughts have all had pretty good turning circles, but missing those at higher tiers where all the Fast Battleships are.

[VC381]

Yeah, the flavour will be different at low and high tier.

 

Isn't Warspite one of the most accurate BBs in game? IJN are more accurate than USN at long range (and they have the range). I think RN should be the most accurate up to medium ranges but lack very long range capability. Very much "engage the enemy more closely" but with more reliable alpha making up for lower survivability compared to other mid-tier brawlers (they may have awesome repair but don't hold a candle to US all or nothing armor and German turtleback). Basically high risk, high reward, repair, repeat.

[Deamon93]

Nation flavor isn't that easy to depict since shipbuilding within a nation can change(and, in some cases, did change).

[piritskenyer]

 

We're looking at a branch with the typical slow ships with potato guns from tier3 to 5, then either a branch that either keeps 380mm guns from tier7 or 8 all the way to tier10, each tier tacking on an extra quad turret reaching a total of 16 guns, or one slightly more reasonable branch that eculminates with a ship sporting 9 450mm guns.

 

Personally I'm hoping for the former. 16 (undersized) guns on a ship with the size, armor and speed of an Iowa sounds hilarious. 

Though I suspect it won't be approved, because how the hell do you make that sort of ship not obliterate cruisers?

 

Yeah, that shell density alone would be a hell of a lot of fun.

[Affeks]

Nation flavor isn't that easy to depict since shipbuilding within a nation can change(and, in some cases, did change).

 

It really isn't that difficult, i mean yeah speed, guns, layout both armor and weapon changed, but what I'm talking about is the stuff that go beyond ship specific. Like USN dmg con vs IJN dmg con, like IJN dispersion patterns to KM and USN dispersion patterns etc etc etc. really easy this info was all there long before WG made the lines dude

[Deamon93]

 

It really isn't that difficult, i mean yeah speed, guns, layout both armor and weapon changed, but what I'm talking about is the stuff that go beyond ship specific. Like USN dmg con vs IJN dmg con, like IJN dispersion patterns to KM and USN dispersion patterns etc etc etc. really easy this info was all there long before WG made the lines dude

 

Then which flavor would the Italian BBs have? Since they changed somewhat drastically over the period in question in most regards(except speed which was usually above average for the period but that alone can't do much).

[VC381]

The Italians I imagine being somewhat similar to the Germans in terms of firepower but with different strengths to the armour layout: no turtleback but better decks and TDS, on the later ships at least.

 

But I guess that's hard stats, if Affeks is talking about things like how consumables behave then we might be into anecdotes more than anything else. Having said that, if RN BCs don't get speed boost Italian BBs should for sure! Yes, I have a speed obsession...

[Affeks]

 

Then which flavor would the Italian BBs have? Since they changed somewhat drastically over the period in question in most regards(except speed which was usually above average for the period but that alone can't do much).

 

I don't know much, if anything at all about RM BBs (except for littorio class and UP.41), so I don't really know. At least there are a lot of non-historical in game stats that can be buffed like turning circles, rudder shift, non-belt/deck plating (like bow, stern, superstructure etc)etc. But also consumables could be buffed or added.

The Italians I imagine being somewhat similar to the Germans in terms of firepower but with different strengths to the armour layout: no turtleback but better decks and TDS, on the later ships at least.

 

But I guess that's hard stats, if Affeks is talking about things like how consumables behave then we might be into anecdotes more than anything else. Having said that, if RN BCs don't get speed boost Italian BBs should for sure! Yes, I have a speed obsession...

 

I WAS JUST ABOUT TO SAY SPEED BOOST! It would have a big impact on BBs as they accelerate slowest. This could actually be a major trait tbh BBs are the ones that benefit from speed the least as any slight turn will slow you down for at least half a minute before you get back up to full speed and trying to stop or accelerate to dodge is pretty much worthless in higher tiers as its really predictable and may have lingering consequences 

[Deamon93]

The Italians I imagine being somewhat similar to the Germans in terms of firepower but with different strengths to the armour layout: no turtleback but better decks and TDS, on the later ships at least.

 

But I guess that's hard stats, if Affeks is talking about things like how consumables behave then we might be into anecdotes more than anything else. Having said that, if RN BCs don't get speed boost Italian BBs should for sure! Yes, I have a speed obsession...

 

The Italian guns should have more guns tier by tier, with some exceptions(the rebuilt Conte di Cavour/Caio Duilio, most likely tier V material and Caracciolo, most likely tier VI material). Protection wise that also changed somewhat drastically during the period and even the high tier ships should behave differently(depending on how WG depicts Littorio armor scheme).

 

A speed boost on a BB would be a bit too much, considering most of the ships are already on the faster side for the class tier by tier. Moreover to be considered doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with the heal ability, otherwise won't be picked ever.

 

 

 

 

 

[Affeks]

 

The Italian guns should have more guns tier by tier, with some exceptions(the rebuilt Conte di Cavour/Caio Duilio, most likely tier V material and Caracciolo, most likely tier VI material). Protection wise that also changed somewhat drastically during the period and even the high tier ships should behave differently(depending on how WG depicts Littorio armor scheme).

 

A speed boost on a BB would be a bit too much, considering most of the ships are already on the faster side for the class tier by tier. Moreover to be considered doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with the heal ability, otherwise won't be picked ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Using Engine boost for speed is actually a really nooby thing to do most of the time. The real strength of the speed boost is its ability to increase the reactive ability of the ship, giving you better acceleration, higher speed turns and ability to stop fast. 

 

On paper ships like Iowa are really fast, but practically its really slow since its heavy weight means even the slightest turn slows you down drastically and it takes ages to get the ship back to full speed. I especially notice this in my Gneisenau (32 knot max speed) but turning at half rudder for just a second takes the speed down to 28 knots and it takes half a minute to get it back to full speed. This happens often as i play Gneisenau with secondary build since i like it up close and personal with torpedoes, which means I turn him with full rudder either direction almost all game to ram, point my guns or dodge a broadside salvo or even stopping to avoid incoming torps. So practical speed is only 26-27 knots at best. 

 

ofc engine boost as a consumable has to be seperate from repair party

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

Using Engine boost for speed is actually a really nooby thing to do most of the time. The real strength of the speed boost is its ability to increase the reactive ability of the ship, giving you better acceleration, higher speed turns and ability to stop fast. 

 

On paper ships like Iowa are really fast, but practically its really slow since its heavy weight means even the slightest turn slows you down drastically and it takes ages to get the ship back to full speed. I especially notice this in my Gneisenau (32 knot max speed) but turning at half rudder for just a second takes the speed down to 28 knots and it takes half a minute to get it back to full speed. This happens often as i play Gneisenau with secondary build since i like it up close and personal with torpedoes, which means I turn him with full rudder either direction almost all game to ram, point my guns or dodge a broadside salvo or even stopping to avoid incoming torps. So practical speed is only 26-27 knots at best. 

 

ofc engine boost as a consumable has to be seperate from repair party

 

Sometimes the massive slow down when turning can save your @$$ from eating that torp wall!!

 

However yes, since the ship will be so slow it's likely the torps the guy had in reserve will get you 

[1MajorKoenig]

Nation flavor isn't that easy to depict since shipbuilding within a nation can change(and, in some cases, did change).

 

In reality you are right but WG likes to give each line a flavour that is common to all ships even if certain things change going tier upwards like speed, etc. 

 

For US it's AA, IJN it is (relative) long range fire accuracy and for the Germans it's survivability. Especially GER and US "traits" make sense as they reflect somehow the national focus / philosophy for BB building. IJN ... Well, but ok.

 

I think we all agree that speed, gun caliber, etc changed throughout the development of the BB. 

 

With regards to Italy - no clue what Italy's design philosophy was. I am only aware of extensive rebuilds in the interwar period. I guess you would be the person to ask here...? ;-)

[Comrad_StaIin]

Would like to see RN Battlecruisers first.

 

"Flavour": fast, relatively big guns, little armour, new consumable for higher rate of fire at the cost of increased detonation risk

 

As for the BBs - look at Warspite and you have it.

 

Soviet BBs - insane rail guns with crazy range, v0 and accuracy (hope not game breaking!!!!) at the cost of a little armour. Plus Radar from T8 up probably minus the plane.

 

French BBs - bad dispersion, bad armour and decent mobility would be my guess

 

at Tier 10 you can expect the Soviet BBs to be pretty much a BB version of Moskva I think you already know this by now its called Project 24 an improved Sovetsky Soyuz it will have better armor than Yamato (no Turtleback) 

very good Torp defense or very poor Torp defense (uses the pulgiese system)

very high speed at the cost of absolute garbege turning circle and rudder shift

 

insane long range AA (if you know Moskva AA you know what I'm talking about)

 

OK Secondaries more along the lines of US

 

since they said they are testing Radar for BBs on Missouri I assume they want to give Soviet BBs Radar

 

the other soviet BBs are pretty much as you discribed them (the WWII ones at least the WWI Dread not so much they are quit the opposite)

 

the guns are 18" and will be high velocity versions of Yamato guns at the cost of accuracy

 

it could also get the 16" guns of Sovetsky Soyuz which would be far weaker thab the 18" ones and maybe not cut it

 

[Affeks]

 

at Tier 10 you can expect the Soviet BBs to be pretty much a BB version of Moskva I think you already know this by now its called Project 24 an improved Sovetsky Soyuz it will have better armor than Yamato (no Turtleback) 

very good Torp defense or very poor Torp defense (uses the pulgiese system)

very high speed at the cost of absolute garbege turning circle and rudder shift

 

insane long range AA (if you know Moskva AA you know what I'm talking about)

 

OK Secondaries more along the lines of US

 

since they said they are testing Radar for BBs on Missouri I assume they want to give Soviet BBs Radar

 

the other soviet BBs are pretty much as you discribed them (the WWII ones at least the WWI Dread not so much they are quit the opposite)

 

the guns are 18" and will be high velocity versions of Yamato guns at the cost of accuracy

 

it could also get the 16" guns of Sovetsky Soyuz which would be far weaker thab the 18" ones and maybe not cut it

 

 

Remember the armor project 23/24 was gonna have was low quality, so even tho its thicker the effective thickness would be much lower. I really hope they don't give VMF BBs radar, I mean do we want Cruiser escort to be obsolete?

 

Secondary would be better than US (at least in terms of volume) since they have two different caliber secondaries.

[Affeks]

 

In reality you are right but WG likes to give each line a flavour that is common to all ships even if certain things change going tier upwards like speed, etc. 

 

For US it's AA, IJN it is (relative) long range fire accuracy and for the Germans it's survivability. Especially GER and US "traits" make sense as they reflect somehow the national focus / philosophy for BB building. IJN ... Well, but ok.

 

I think we all agree that speed, gun caliber, etc changed throughout the development of the BB. 

 

With regards to Italy - no clue what Italy's design philosophy was. I am only aware of extensive rebuilds in the interwar period. I guess you would be the person to ask here...? ;-)

 

I read somewhere that US were baffled how tight shell groupings IJN BBs had, but you know dispersion and the accuracy of fire control systems are two very different things. IJN had the former while USN had the latter. Practically having the latter is more important but ingame FCS is really non-existent. I don't remember where i read it so don't quote me pls