What do I need to do to improve?

[ElBazza]

Or: Statistics and how they sometimes don't tell the whole story

 

Apologies in advance for the rambling thoughts of a senile old git...

 

So, I've been struggling along with certain ships for a while, not really looking much at stats sites until recently, when I started looking at warships today. This got me thinking about how the WTR rating is calculated, and how it doesn't necessarily tell the whole story.

 

for reference, here's my stats: https://eu.warships.today/player/531874472/ElBazza 

 

For example, you can see from my total WTR status that I'm considered below average. Most of my other stats (globally at least) are below average. However, if you look at average XP, I'm (slightly) above average, which presumably means that at least I'm contributing to the outcome of battle? (If it doesn't mean what I think it means, then please let me know why!)

 

If you dig deeper into the stats, you'll find that my two most played ships are the Kiev (good ship, I get slightly above average XP but below average WTR, due to horrible survival, damage and kill ratios) and Trashkent (detest this ship, but still trying to grind to the kebab, piss poor stats for it, and slightly below average XP as well). Looking at the graphs, you'll see that average damage and average XP are consistently trending up. I don't particularly set a great deal of stock in win rate, as it's highly dependent on MM. I have noticed that I seem to be lowest tier in the majority of battles I end up in (e.g. in Leander I more often than not end up in T8 battles). 

Ships I've been good in have generally been low to mid tier, I seem to struggle in high tier games (tier 7 and up, except for Fiji - love that ship, but only have 2 battles in her. She's way out front in all categories for me so far though). My tier 7 or higher ships are: Mahan, Kiev, Fiji, Tashkent.

 

My playstyle is probably over aggressive, and I've been known to get locked in to a target on more than one occasion... so those are things I know I can improve on - knowing when to pick my fights, and knowing when to run...

 

Can anyone offer me any other advice? I'm specifically thinking about how I can improve my average damage, as I regularly have games in the Trashkent where I get 50 - 100 main battery hits, and 10k or less damage (one case I recall, I got 200+ hits, about 15k damage and 2 fires, predominantly using HE... Does this count as me being a RNG hated statistical outlier, or does anyone else regularly get stuff like this?)

Also, am I really just a crapplayer, or are my stats being adversely affected by my high-tier struggles?

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Maybe your key thing is knowing when to cut your losses and run. Staying alive is very important, even if WR is a debatable stat. Even if you trade one kill for your own sinking then in some ways you've achieved nothing.

 

Try to sit down and replay every battle in your mind and see what you could have improved on. There is RNG bad luck but then there's exposing yourself to too much gun fire/being too ambitious.

[Rexdaman]

well i would say watch streamers like Flamu and izolate. youtube aswell. 

and learn to use your minimap. i mean it. beast tool you got. 

Beside you only played 1k games. so plenty of time to improve woulden worry at all 

[Aotearas]

Without knowing much how you play, one thing that can help you if you have troubles pinning down exactly what you did wrong is to enable replays and watch games you've played. With one difference, use the free look camera (left click) and pay attention to what is going around, rather than what you were watching whilst you were playing.

 

It's not always easy to see mistakes when you're in the thick of it, but taking a look around backseat driving your own match can really help pointing out some mistakes, for example spotting a ship that you didn't notice when playing or some such.

Knowing what went wrong is the second step to getting better (you already got the first step down; realizing that you can get better).

[ElBazza]

I've watched a fair few of Flamu's and Notser's youtube videos. They've helped in quite a few ways: helped me get my main battery hit rate up no end (learning how to use the dynamic range finder on the binoculars was extremely useful), helped with torps and smoke too, I do still struggle with minimap and own ship state awareness though!

 

However, much as I try, I can't Flamu... I try to emulate his aggressive style, but always seem to over-commit, or get focused by the enemy, or end up (especially in DDs) contesting a cap on my own after the rest of the team has upped and left me...

 

Also in high tier radar is the bane of my life... I just can't seem to shake it and get obliterated in short order.

 

But I guess that's all a part of learning to better use the minimap and other tools at my disposal!

[ElBazza]

Without knowing much how you play, one thing that can help you if you have troubles pinning down exactly what you did wrong is to enable replays and watch games you've played. With one difference, use the free look camera (left click) and pay attention to what is going around, rather than what you were watching whilst you were playing.

 

It's not always easy to see mistakes when you're in the thick of it, but taking a look around backseat driving your own match can really help pointing out some mistakes, for example spotting a ship that you didn't notice when playing or some such.

Knowing what went wrong is the second step to getting better (you already got the first step down; realizing that you can get better).

 

I certainly can't get much worse in the Mutsuki... ;)

 

Actually, that's the wierdest one for me - I can Isokaze and Minekaze with the best of them, but with the Mutsuki (granted it's a low sample size so far, but still...), it just doesn't seem to work for me...

[Tyrendian89]

would you happen to run a premium account? that would explain why your XP is above average when everything else isnt (and yes, its beyond stupid that premium time influences your XP stats but that's how it is).

Also, one very stupid piece of advice at first glance: Make your minimap large. I've got mine one step below max size - when it's that large you end up glancing at it and taking stock of positioning a lot more, and that then builds a habit. Beyond that, I'd say we could use a few replays of yours to actually see what you are doing right and wrong... Good on you for actually asking for advice in the first place tho!

[Rexdaman]

well when you watch Flamu stream. he always got a strong team with him. 

what i ment is the basic whay he plays. like aim and choose targets. how he commits. like engage, and more important disengage. 

like play with spotting range. uses smoke. and i say it again. the MINIMAP.. use it. 

to play as agressive as he does, isent something you would get away with in 95% of solo play..

when you play try to have support. speak to a cruiser ask for backup. don't yolo, try to play as a team..

Good luck out there 

[ElBazza]

would you happen to run a premium account? that would explain why your XP is above average when everything else isnt (and yes, its beyond stupid that premium time influences your XP stats but that's how it is).

Also, one very stupid piece of advice at first glance: Make your minimap large. I've got mine one step below max size - when it's that large you end up glancing at it and taking stock of positioning a lot more, and that then builds a habit. Beyond that, I'd say we could use a few replays of yours to actually see what you are doing right and wrong... Good on you for actually asking for advice in the first place tho!

 

The last 2 or 3 months, maybe as many as last 6, I've been running premium. I'd thought that the warships today stats only used the base (unmodified by premium or any other additive factor) XP? Guess I was wrong in that assumption!

 

Pretty sure I wasn't premium around the time I had the Gnevny and Ognevoi though, and my stats are pretty good for those two in all categories. Maybe tier 5 - 6 (or 7 in the case of the Fiji - Love that ship!) is my natural level in terms of ability? 

[EmilyFara]

Difficult to say without a replay.

I think the most important thing is knowing when to push, when to pull back and when to hold.

According to your stats at 2/12/16 something changed and your stats all went up. So there is a rising line now. I'd say you should just keep working on it.

(and don't follow tactics that other people use in a division. Since if you're solo then you don't have the coordination that you need in order to get it to work)

[Admiral_noodle]

Best thing you could do is division up with people who are experienced. They will likely point out where you could improve. Especially with someone who can observe you play "semi solo". I.e. Not in a division where you specifically work together. So in Kiev division up with a BBs player - some ship you wouldn't always expect to do things together with. 

 

90% of the time it's awareness of the battle situation and what to do in any given scenario - or learning to avoid scenarios!

 

The only stat of any interest to me - over a long enough period - is solo win rate. Only that really tells a story, and even then it takes hundreds of games to me truly meaningful.

 

Other stats help though. The one that jumps out at me in yours is survival. You die way too much

 

Your next challenge should be working out ways to survive. To have more of an impact on a game you need to survive and have an impact on the end game in those tight games where it could go either way.

[GeneraKrizmuz]

Hands off destroyers and cruisers and start playing the most newbie friendly class, battleships.

 

Naturally you have your best WTR in BBs as well.

 

 

[BadGene616]

Don't just go to the same places on a map that you always go.

Don't always go to the cap closest to where you spawned.

Every game has a different flow to it. Make you minimap huge and use it constantly.

Division with players who can teach you new tricks and use coms to discuss what you are going to do and why.

Spec your commanders to maximise the advantages of your ships.

 

That's a lot of things to consider, but it's all soft stuff beyond angling, shooting, etc.

 

Said it before, can't say it enough... It's not the mistake that you made 10 second ago that killed you, it's the one you made two minutes ago that usually gets you killed in this game.

 

Don't be afraid to try something new. And inversely, don't stick doing something that isn't working.

 

Learn your detection ranges, torpedo and gun ranges and the special abilities of all the ships you are likely to meet. It's a massive advantage to know that cruiser may have long range but slow torps in the water you haven't seen yet, for example.

[voltaicgrunt]

Stop shooting BB's. RU DD designed for killing DD's. Do that first.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Can anyone offer me any other advice?

 

Yes.   ;)

 

Over a year ago I came to these forums looking for help to improve my horrible performance: 43% win rate, not dealing damage,etc.

The advise was not given to me directly but to another poster.  It was well thought out and given in a polite tone, but if I could boil it done to its essence it was "You suck".  You spend too little time in each ship and never learn how to play them, then you fail up to the next tier.  Ouch. 

 

I was left with a choice, so I decided to take that advise to heart.  I started my DDs over with the Umikaze and the Wickes; and to play them until I felt I understood their capabilities.  My goal was to stay in those ships until I could improve my win rate on those ships to above 60% while doing above server average in damage and kills.  

 

 I mean no offense and I don't know if that advise applies to you.

 

 

[XbodzioXplX]

Can anyone offer me any other advice?

 

You should see those vids.

 

 

And from my point of view the soviet destroyers are the easiest to play. The have big spot range (for DD) and short torps. They are rather light cruisers.

[G3Virus]

RU DD's are good in a 1 vs 1 DD fight BUT it can still eat up your HP pool so in my view its still ideal with a RU DD NOT to be on the front line taking the fight to the enemy DD's, if anything support a cap by flanking the cap from the sides just out side of your detection range and when a more stealthy DD in your team spots the enemy DD in the cap, then help your DD kill the enemy DD from behind the first line.

Usually when the enemy DD's try to flee or engage you frendly DD if you are at a falnking positionj you can get his broadside when i faced bow or stern to you friendly DD, that way he has no good way of angling.

Your have the range and accuracy to stay back and still be effective.

 

I would actually argue that RU DD's are made to run interference. I struggled with the Khaba but I realised the best way to get a good W/R and be the most helpful to your team is for example doing the above OR if your in standard battle or the caps are very near the center of the map allowing for a lot of space on the sides then you can simply use speed flag and boost to get in to a position behind enemy BB's and even Crusiers on the two outer lines of the map.

Make sure to have en exit plan tough.

havinga plan to get out of any position you put your self in allows you to act and not react to the enemy, a good player acts, bad players react and they don't dictate the game.

Now you can burn BB's preferably since they are the easiest ones or even Cruisers.

The Khaba can engage up to 3 enemy BB's at once, even a Cruisers on top of that if you play it right.

With your speed you can dictate how close they can get to you.

Also use your toprs to deny any changing BB like a Bismark or a Cruiser to get to close.

You have 10km torps so use them even if they dont hit you can dictate what the enemy can and cant do.

 

Now that you set the trap your team will be able to spot the ships for your when they are between your and your team, then you can use smoke if there are no DD's around.

One way to actually figure out where things are is to enable last know location on the minimap, then as ships are spotted you can start to count ships and figure out where all the ships are, those uncounted for are wild cards  but you can still figure out some of those by watching caps, is some on capping or freezing a cap for your team etc if so there might be a DD or even a sneaky Cruiser there.

 

I used this tactic the last few days in my Khaba and my W/R went up, its not good yet but Im pretty new to it tough I have playeda crap load of Kiev and use similar tactics there but the Kiev also works a bit better with traditional DD play style.

 

But the Khaba is realy nota ship your want to cap in, most RU DD's are bad for that due to your detection range.

Udaloi can be quite decent set up rigth tough.

You can do it, you can assume you will be spotted 95% of the time so I usually go in using speedflag and boost, make a hard U turn deploying smoke, then I place myself behind the smoke behind the half circle I created, most people shoot at the smoke and torp drops dont always reach much futer since the enemy DD's dont want to get to close most of the times.

Also you can see any torps passing trough the smoke easily.

Always face a DD with its rear in to the cap, that way you can get our faster and the risk of eating torps is reduced immensely.

 

I flanked up 3 BB's a number of times the last few days doing the campaigns with this tactic I mentioned before, ran up behind them and made sure not to be seen so they basicly figure some on is spotting them from the main fleet.

Takes at the most 3 minutes to create such an ambush usually, then I drooped torps for 3 hits and flooding and I then burned them by setting fires to as many of them as I could.

A  Bismark turned for me but I had an island behind my smoke so I reversed back, turned around behind the island so he got now use of his sonar and then I headed for my team where BB's and Crusiers where waiting, lets just say the Bismark had a bad day once he realised he went up against my howl team wit like 30% HP after I made a number on him first.

The BB I torped 3 times had no repair since he used it to put out fires, well he flodded for 20K and in the end had like 10% HP and ran off. The oter BB I dont recall, think it was an NC or IOWA but he was the forst of them to get out of dodge and basicly run all the way back to base.

Well the enemy lost hard in the end having little to no BB support and my team could push in force.

Now normally people would rage at some on being on the outer lines, ignoring caps and what not but in the Khaba that actually benefits the team if done rigth.

One can inflict a ton of damage, stay alive and make the enemy teams play ineffective the howl game.

 

All in all I probably made 150K dmg, I score between 350-500+ hits in almost every match I survived and scored 202K dmg at the most the last few days.

And like I sad W/R went up unlike when I used more conventional DD team play style people expect form a DD.

 

One can do 100-200K+ damage and the advantage the Khaba has is that it can keep 3-5 enemy's occupied with you, also they have the crappy options of either showing broadside to your team if they want to deal with you or turn back and run, or they could try to ignore you an take massive damage over time or engage you at range wasting a lot of ammo sparing your team.

BB's rarely hit the Khaba at range anyway and once a BB fires just turn away and it will most of the time just miss so alwasy keep an eye on anyone that can shoot at you.

And if you cant see them make sure to wiggle the boat around a bit.

 

I actually managed to get Witherer 4 times two days in a row playing Udaloi and Khaba. Udaloi didn't even have Demolition expert.

 

Basically play it like your plying for your self and not the team, the problem I had was that I always play divisions and for my team, for the win and supporting your team is key.

Problem with the Khaba is that supporting your team in the traditional sens like sticking togheter, spotting an capping dont work very well.

But in the end the fact that you can engage multiple targets and keep them busy means that the enemy teams BB's and Cruisers will waste valuable time and ammo on you and in the mean time your team can cap and pick the rest of the team off with much less resistant and less casualties.

 

My tip with the Khaba is to get BFT, AFT and DE so you can fire far, fast and get the maximum number of fires and when your in a position with multiple targets in range your should switch target as soon as you get a fire on it then you pick the next target and set it on fire and repeat that as there fires burns out or they use there repair party.

Also dont wast time trying to get fires when they used there repair party and are immune if there's a target that is not burning and has not used repair or is no longer immune then focus that until it burns then switch back.

 

Your want every fire to do maximum damage. Engaging 3 targets like this can net you a Witherer. 60K fire and flooding damage in very short time.

Engaging a single target like a BB or CC then you can obviously just spam it until his repair is out and get up to 4 fire.

 

Now not all games are optimal, some maps are not open  enough for the Khaba, then you might need to switch to the support tactic where you help  other DD's in your team like I mentioned.

Or your simply have to run with your team, basically hide in the fleet and offer support fire, but keep watching the minimap and analyse the enemy's ships position to find isolated Cruiser or BB's.

Becuse as the game progresses and  ships regroup and die you might find a good hunting ground and some targets to flank then boost over there to a flanking position, its ideal to shoot at all times with RU DD's but some times its better to surprise them when you know they cant go no where in the next few minutes if you get in to just the right location.

That way your get the most damage done, the game is not over until its over.

 

I have gotten more complements the last 5 days then I got the last few months driving the Khaba in this way, I have positive response from my team and also the annoyance by the enemy teams when they can not deal with my tactics.

Tough most enemy teams have actually been nice and found the game good that commented in the chat.

Im not an expert in the Khaba nor good just average but to get good one has to try and find a way to progress.

 

Its very easy to keep doing what "worked" with other ships as one progress but one DD dont play like another and some times on just have to realise new tactics are needed.

I did not even find the Khabas range to be much of a problem, I hated the nerf with my "traditional" play style but with the tactics I mentioned Im often with in 10km or less of any target when I engage and with the Khabas speed on can maintain any distant desired.

 

Anyway I hope my wall of text helps, try some new tactics, act instead of reacting, have a plan when going in and have an exit plan to shorten the time for any decisions you need to make.

 

Trying new things is allowed, sure people rage at me at times dying and failing hard but when I get a hang of a new tactic people usually stop when they see good results.

[triumphgt6]

As another senile old git, I do notice you are playing quite high tiers a lot. My WTR rating has taken a hit since the RN cruisers and the fact I now play T7, 8 and 9 a lot more. My XP and win rate however continue to slowly rise. Maybe drop down a tier for a while - I started sailing destroyers more which helped and I think improved my gameplay in RN cruisers. Still pretty average though but enjoy myself. I never play in divisions so all my stats are solo play ( with about 3 exceptions - mainly in a Mikasa division - spectacular fail!!)

Would be happy to join up though only play evenings and weekends as at work!

[ColonelPete]

XP is modified by premium. My guess is that you have some.

Winrate is extremly important in the long run, especially in DDs.

 

Try to play less agressive. Focus enemy DDs.

Use smoke for teammates.

[triumphgt6]

Base XP is the same though, isn't it? Clearly you can get huge XP scores with modifiers but warship stats seems to look at base figures- or am I wrong?

[Nethraniel]

Base XP is the same though, isn't it? Clearly you can get huge XP scores with modifiers but warship stats seems to look at base figures- or am I wrong?

 

The WoWS API uses non-premium and premium-baseXP... Flags, camo, and daily win bonus are afaik not counted.

[True_Winterfeld]

You progressed to fast. Stop that. Go back some tiers and stay there until you are top of the team most of the time. Then go to the next T. Simple. Also, think about what your ship can and cant do and what is good for your team and your victory. GL&HF

 

[Live85]

I've watched a fair few of Flamu's and Notser's youtube videos. They've helped in quite a few ways: helped me get my main battery hit rate up no end (learning how to use the dynamic range finder on the binoculars was extremely useful), helped with torps and smoke too, I do still struggle with minimap and own ship state awareness though!

 

However, much as I try, I can't Flamu... I try to emulate his aggressive style, but always seem to over-commit, or get focused by the enemy, or end up (especially in DDs) contesting a cap on my own after the rest of the team has upped and left me...

 

Also in high tier radar is the bane of my life... I just can't seem to shake it and get obliterated in short order.

 

But I guess that's all a part of learning to better use the minimap and other tools at my disposal!

 

 

I'll throw in my two cents as well.

Don't try to emulate unicum players like Flamu. Watching great players videos it's fine and you can learn a lot, but often the strategies they use are NOT applicable to regular gameplay. The reasons are various and not only because of the difference in skill: there's also commanders to think about. The performance of a ship with a skilled captain can change completely how said ship plays for example. I'm thinking especially about concealment expert, which can drop tier 8+ battleships to scary low surface detection distances, allowing them to get much more closer and ambush cruisers or disengage almost at will when there isn't nothing in between that can light them up.

 

The key to improve in this kind of games is to realize what are your strengths and what you are doing wrong. Each player has different tastes: some play only CV's, some play only BB's, some play everything. What type of gameplay do you enjoy? looking at your stats it seems that you main destroyers. Do you like them and feel like committing to that kind of gameplay? if the answer is yes, Imho you should stick to those ships and keep playing them until you feel like you're performing at a level you're happy with. After choosing a class, you have to understand what you can improve, focusing on fixing your mistakes. Is your position on the map correct? are you too far away from the enemy team to deal adequate damage or are you getting too close without support and getting killed in the process? I don't know, because as you said looking at stats doesn't tell the whole story. Your analysis sounds correct though, looking at your damage and survivability it looks like you're too aggressive. Something you can do -and that I did a lot in the past, especially on WoT- is to enable replays and after a battle where you feel you made too many mistakes, close the game and look at the replay. Any mistake, especially in third person view and with an eye on the minimap, becomes apparent. As other players often say, on WoT you die because of the mistake you made ten seconds ago, here sometimes it's the mistake you made one-two minutes earlier. Did you misread the minimap and charged into an impossible situation? did you underestimate the dpm of a ship? etcetera etcetera. There's a tier where you think you're struggling the most? drop down to the preceding tier and see if you feel comfortable. Stick to that tier until you feel ready for the extra difficulty/different gameplay.

 

Ah, another thing: after you enable replays you can post them here on the forum. There's plenty of people that will spend 20-40 minutes watching replays to give you their advice, even though people often complain that this forum is toxic towards "bad" players.

[cro_pwr]

Just to add to what people are saying here.
Soviet DDs aren't really ment to charge in and yolo everything. They don't have concealment to do that, they don't have concealment to quickly dissengage when you get focused. You should play them as light cruisers. Support your stealthier DDs that are going in for the caps (let them spot for you), and when fighting BBs/Cas keep your range (basicly your sweet spot is close to your max range) and wiggle around so you are hard to hit. Your speed and manevurability are your strongest weapons as a RU DD.
And one more thing, Demolition expert and Advanced Firing Training help a lot for extra range and extra fire % to burn down BBs. So if you don't have them, get them ASAP.

 

Oh, and don't forget to use AP on broadside targets. Russian AP hurts a lot.

 

and to add to this:

"Ah, another thing: after you enable replays you can post them on here on the forum. There's plenty of people that will spend 20-40 minutes watching replays to give you their advice, even though people often complain that this forum is toxic towards "bad" players. "

 

Yes, this forum is toxic towards bad players. But not towards new players that are trying to improve, but towards bad players that refuse to learn and think they are best in the universe, when they are only a stepping stone for their team.

[Niibler]

A lot of good tips already around this thread so, I would take the opportunity to say, OP you are the real MVP, seeking for tips instead of going the usual "X OP/ PloX nerf Y / cheats / buff my BB" route.

 

My 5 cents are, minimap reading, planning in anticipation, never give up.