About Cruisers

[pihip_wg]

After toying around a bit with battleships (got both the German and Japanese BBs fully upgraded), I've noticed that I still lack enough skills, especially shooting skills and torpedo skills - in short, I suck at timing my shots and often miss.

Knowing that I've decided to halt my grinds and focus on learning and hopefully mastering the basics, which also include gameplay different than big bulky dreadnoughts, hence the title of this thread. I'd like to learn a bit about cruisers, namely the following:

 

- their basic playstyle, regardless of techtree

- what their role in battle is

- which cruiser line would be more interesting to follow (I was looking at the Russians for this, but I'm open to suggestions)

 

As usual, thanks to anyone willing to give a hand to this freshwater captain.

[Caveh]

- Their play style essentially revolves as support for larger ships. They're

A) More mobile than Battleships

B) Faster

C) Better Concealment

D) More Accurate Weapons

E) Some have torpedoes.

 

However, each factions' cruisers have their own unique playstyle.

 

Some factions' cruisers have different roles than others, e.g. a Des Moines is more likely to stick closer to a battleship whereas a Zao would be more likely to be a lone wolf.

 

 

It's honestly down to your own play style which you like. If you're going to pick a nations' cruiser line, my advice to you: Look at the end result. Which Tier X is better suited to the way you enjoy playing? The grind is going to be tough for each faction, but at the end of the day, you need to have something you're going to enjoy throughout.

 

Russians are great, played on the Moskva for only about 10 matches on a friends' account, it's essentially a battleship. Strong armor, expendable HP, accurate guns. So you might be on the right track.

[Kaput_Mundi]

I'm no rocket player but could lend you a hand on this man.

Few points to consider:

 

1. Be aware that in general and especially in the current meta, cruisers are the most hard class to play. They are flexible, but very less durable than a battleship nor capable of vanishing like a destroyer. They are tough, eventho rewarding, to play, so prepare yourself to have 100 eyes and develop a spider-sense quickly.

 

2. They are meant to support other ships in their own tasks, so they can do them better than they would without cruiser support.

Your strength is that you have no strength and can do almost everything quite well, being careful enough, and support wherever and whenever needed.

 

3. I'm not skilled enough to give you advice on general playstyle. What i could say for sure is stick with the fleet and wait for your opportunity to come.
Go in the front = get deleted by BB focus fire at the very moment you get spotted by enemy destroyer.

Stay in the back = you not hitting anything for the entire match.
So pack up with other cruisers, or stay with the big boys and let them tank for you while you dish damage untargeted.

4. In the current meta i would dive on Russian line, or IJN.
There is a BB overpopulation which makes fire-starters cruisers (like Russian, or IJN) the really only viable option atm.
Yes, you can do good also in other nation, but this two lines seriously have an advatage at the moment.
Take russian, set up your captain with demo expert, and enjoy the viking funeral to enemy BBs, provide you avoid their shells long enough.

5. Don't never, ever, rush.
Take your time, lurk like a crocodile. You cannot tank damage.
You have to strike in best conditions and at your own terms.

Hope this helps man, good luck.

[mikelight1805]

As a cruiser captain, my advice is to exercise some fire discipline and don't go shooting the first thing you can see. Most higher tier cruiser captains, myself included, value concealment modules and captain skills. If you can learn when to disengage, and when the best times to start shooting, and to stop shooting, you will do well in cruisers. It is best practice to avoid one on ones where possible if you do not have superior health or a fire power advantage. It is very easy to keep blazing away with the guns when you could stop shooting, regain some concealment and get yourself into a better position to pick a better fight. Try to avoid being broadside to anyone, as you are easily damaged this way.

 

Cruisers are a great class to play. you have potential to kill every class in the game, and are very manoeuvrable. Use your speed and fire power to position yourself well, and you will have lots of fun i am sure. Just be aware of what is happening around you.

[Kaput_Mundi]

As a cruiser captain, my advice is to exercise some fire discipline and don't go shooting the first thing you can see.

 

Strong this ^^^

Concealment is your weapon number 1.

Use it well and wait for the best moment to strike.

[Gormadoc]

So you have picked the concealment level 5 skill for your crusier commanders?

[Freyr_A2]

Good plan.  Welcome to the hard life of a cruiser.  You have less armour, and if you sit broadside on to a battleship then you'll discover that you can be obliterated in a lucky broadside.  However, your advantage is that cruisers with 6" guns (sorry, 152.4mm guns) can pump out 4 volleys in the time a BB reloads from it's first shot, and 8" (203.2mm) cruisers can throw two broadsides in the same time.

 

You can utterly wreck BB's if you have reasonable salvo accuracy in a cruiser, if you know how to evade.  You'll discover the truth of Admiral Fishers dictum that speed=armour.  Turning at speed while angled in certain ways means that people shooting at longer ranges near certainly miss you.  You know the bow or stern on thing at about 30 degrees and turning when the BB shoots so you missed the cruiser?  Try it and learn it.  Knowing the sort of zig zag that a cruiser will be doing also lets you hit them at range in a BB.

 

In general, I'd describe the nations as follows for cruisers:-

American.  Good guns but no torpedoes and reasonable armour.  Quite limited playstyle.

Japanese.  Ok guns, plus great torpedoes.  Armour is made of papermache.

German.  Less gunpower, good torpedoes, good armour.

British.  Only 6" guns on every ship, but fire at insane rates at the high tiers.  (ie, the T9 cruiser puts out a 12 gun volley every 4.5 seconds).  Some of the best torpedoes in the game, plus mostly good armour.  Acceleration and turning could best be described as "insane" and are in fact better than some destroyers.

 

Personally, I'd start learning on the American or German cruisers as they are the easiest, and then try the Japanese and British ones later.

[ollonborre]

So you have picked the concealment level 5 skill for your crusier commanders?

 

Offcourse, since there is virtually no other tier 5 skill that offers as much utility as Concealment Expert on a cruiser atleast.

 

As for cruiser lines to go for, the IJN line let's you get around the 203 mm guns very early, and with battleship experince these guns are very comfortable to use. Add to that some long range torpedoes and suprisingly trollish armor when angled they can be very effective. Then we have the Soviet cruisers. If you want the most comfortable 152-155 mm guns out there, get these ships. Very easy to aim with, good rate of fire, good range so concealment is not that big of a factor (it's easier to hit a BB at 14 km than a cruiser, so you have the advantage as long as you keep it at range) but they are made of glass. 

 

I would start with either line though, apart from the British. The British line is very specialised, and don't really teach you about ammo selection which IMO is an important skill to have in a cruiser.

[thepuma2012]

I dont agree with some here. German cruiser good armour?  I tend to fire AP in my cruisers first at german cruisers and halfdestroy them in one salvo and completely in next. Easy citadelled.

 

Anyway cruisers are important to defend against destroyers. Many times I sail out a little bit in front of Battleships to catch them. Cruisers have radar or other equipment to see destroyers sooner and in smoke.

Destroyers will not likely come to battleships which have a cruiser nearby therefor.  And the good rate of fire makes cruisers thé ship to fire at destroyers and try to knock them out. Plus you can more easily escope from the torpedos because cruisers manouvre better. 

American cruisers are the best of all nations against airplanes and generally guide battleships to protect against airplanes and destroyers.

japanase cruisers dont have worst armour in my opinion, but you still have to angle and not give broadsides against enemy ships. They manouvre not the best, but have decentl guns and long range torpedos. Though it is hard to make use of the torpedos which are most of the time directed to the rear, so you can only use them if you sail away from enemy.

British cruisers have high gun arc which make the time your shells travel very long. they also have smoke screens and torps and have to use them to be dangerous.

 

Another important thing to do is to fire HE at battleships and burn them down. (opportunities later in game)

 

Dont get yourself in awkward positions where multiple enemy can fire at you. you ll be gone very fast.

 

I dont find cruisers harder to play than battleships....

 

[ThinderChief]

I dont agree with some here. German cruiser good armour?  I tend to fire AP in my cruisers first at german cruisers and halfdestroy them in one salvo and completely in next. Easy citadelled.

 

Anyway cruisers are important to defend against destroyers. Many times I sail out a little bit in front of Battleships to catch them. Cruisers have radar or other equipment to see destroyers sooner and in smoke.

Destroyers will not likely come to battleships which have a cruiser nearby therefor.  And the good rate of fire makes cruisers thé ship to fire at destroyers and try to knock them out. Plus you can more easily escope from the torpedos because cruisers manouvre better. 

American cruisers are the best of all nations against airplanes and generally guide battleships to protect against airplanes and destroyers.

japanase cruisers dont have worst armour in my opinion, but you still have to angle and not give broadsides against enemy ships. They manouvre not the best, but have decentl guns and long range torpedos. Though it is hard to make use of the torpedos which are most of the time directed to the rear, so you can only use them if you sail away from enemy.

British cruisers have high gun arc which make the time your shells travel very long. they also have smoke screens and torps and have to use them to be dangerous.

 

Another important thing to do is to fire HE at battleships and burn them down. (opportunities later in game)

 

Dont get yourself in awkward positions where multiple enemy can fire at you. you ll be gone very fast.

 

I dont find cruisers harder to play than battleships....

 

 

I agree, the only German Cruiser I played tough are the Hermelin, Emden and Graf Spee, I love the two low tiers, much less the AGS which I can't play well.

 

In the Cruiser dpt I really like the Kirov and Budyonny but their armour is terrible, I still managed to kill several BBs with them mostly 1 vs 1 like during the last game, they don't suspect how strong their guns are and give you broadside, a Fuso go bang with the Budyonny AP but you need to make sure not to get hit because they delete you in no time so manoeuvring is really important there, they can pen you from pretty much any angle and they detonate very well too when the citadel is hit.

 

I also play the USN line very much, in particular the Baltimore as I am researching the Des Moines at the moment, the US guns uses "hyper-heavy" shells so their ark is weird at first but then you figure what they can do and it's a lot, like double citadel a Roon from 30* front while her shell bounces at the same angle, or shooting over islands when other guns can't, plus plunging fire is very efficient too.

 

With the Baltimore I have killed a DD with my first salvo using HE (to avoid over-pen, not to set them on fire I specify because I HATE HE spammers who can't aim properly) or killed BBs using AP as well, so I guess i'm gonna love the Des Moines and i'm something like 30.000 XP to get her, not counting the free XP.

 

The ARP Cruisers are fun to play, they look cute, have relatively good guns but the firing angle of their torps is weird, that of the Russian is a little better as you have to show less boradside, ah yeah I forget, the Japanese girlie speech  is hilarious.

 

I'm not going to mention Admiral Graf Spee too much because I can't play her very well, she doesn't suits me, her guns are too few and not much more powerful than that of the US or Russian ships, they reload way slower too for equally to lower penetration power at ranges, so she is not my favourite, just another ship in my port.

 

The British... I loved my Black Swan, good gunnery fun to play, passed that they depart from the type of ship I like, now I have the Emerald with smoke and all but her guns are weak compared to that of a Kirov, for not much more armour, speed etc, she is more stealthy apparently but you need to use the smoke to get the best of her, not my play style, torps are good.  

 

ARP Myoko.

 

ARP Takao.

[Hootsthenoo]

I HATE HE spammers who can't aim properly)

 

 

How do you know they can't aim properly? That seems like an over generalization of anybody that fires HE.

[ThinderChief]

I HATE HE spammers who can't aim properly)

 

 

How do you know they can't aim properly?

 

I'm the one who got set on fire with hits that land on my deck, I guaranty you that if they were shooting AP they would cause a lot less damage, it takes a lot less aiming skills to start a fire than to citadel a ship, especially those I play, how do you explain otherwise that a glass-armoured Cruiser get spammed with H.E?

 

The number of times I eat one of those in a 1v1 when he was on his own says a lot about their aiming skills, now with the new Fire Prevention skill things are going to change, they're going to have to work a lot more for their money or waste Commander's points on the scambug skill.

 

ps, with the Budyonny, I got a 31% hit ratio, mostly from long range, it's not the highest in the game and my damage ratio is lower than most, but I don't spam H.E I consider this as being an abuse of one of the game loopholes, and the main reason why W.G introduces this skill in the first place.

 

[Hootsthenoo]

It still doesn't follow that it says anything about their aiming skills though, that could be exactly where they are aiming as it seems to be that is where the damage is done.

[ThinderChief]

It still doesn't follow that it says anything about their aiming skills though, that could be exactly where they are aiming as it seems to be that is where the damage is done.

 

​Yes it does, if they were that good at piling up damages with H.E then it would be remarkeable, it is not, melting a Cruiser with fire, especially from the smoke bubble of a DD doesn't require aiming skills, just high firing rate and high risk of fire ammo, reason why most of those guys choose certain ships and not others, you don't melt ships this way with US CA/CLs, you pen them.

[RobS80]

The role of a cruiser in WoWs is as harrasser or BB support, anti DD if the opportunity presents itself. In general it is to be avoided going one on one with BBs without support as you are comparitively weak and they are strong and possibly able to delete you instantly.

 

Knowing when to fire AP and when to fire HE is a skill to learn, as well as with some ships the firing arcs, knowing how to lead a ship, but this is something you will have learnt already to an extent in BB's. Not giving too much broadside to anything aiming at you though is the most important skill.

 

Decide which tree you like (UK fire only special AP, US and German have powerful AA and reasonable armour, IJN have a mix of the characters of the others but strong HE and high fire chance), and then take a look at Youtube for the selected tree and get an idea from the likes of Flamu or your chosen favourite Youtuber.

[ollonborre]

It still doesn't follow that it says anything about their aiming skills though, that could be exactly where they are aiming as it seems to be that is where the damage is done.

 

Agree. On an angled target HE is generally the better option, especially if you have a lower caliber. So there is actually a skill in that, either burn down your angled target or force it to show broadside and then punish it with AP.

 

As for not using HE on the Budyonny, you are only limiting your own effectivness in battle and not helping out your team. Fires have a large psychological effect aswell, a BB that get's set on fire is very likely to disengage and thus you have pushed it away from the battle and can focus on more immideate threats.

[Alphaburner]

So hang on, HE is part of the game, introduced by WG. Long range HE spam, by cruisers is  a requirement due to the current camping meta, but you focus on hating the HE spammers. That is some twisted logic.

 

Take a look at Flamu's latest cruiser vids discussing changing to range mods because of how the game is now. And aiming is required to hit superstructure at distance and to vary the holdover to start multiple fires.

And you also need to remember that fire is light damage and repairable.

 

 

 

[ThinderChief]

 

Agree. On an angled target HE is generally the better option, especially if you have a lower caliber. So there is actually a skill in that, either burn down your angled target or force it to show broadside and then punish it with AP.

 

As for not using HE on the Budyonny, you are only limiting your own effectivness in battle and not helping out your team. Fires have a large psychological effect aswell, a BB that get's set on fire is very likely to disengage and thus you have pushed it away from the battle and can focus on more immideate threats.

 

 

​By lower calibre you mean on a DD, because I can guaranty you that a Budyonny have pen power to the bucket and it doesn't depends on calibre but initial muzzle velocity, you can try all you want there is no excuse for spamming a Cruiser with HP, I took on enough other Cruisers not even using a single H.E round to know it.

 

Fire has little psycholocgical effect from the PoV of spammers, a Cruiser like those I play are low HP, so you CANT afford to let a fire melt you, they know it, they chose their ships/guns accordingly this is why it is spamming and not a tactical use of ammo in the first place, I can pen any Cruiser with mines, it's not as easy but I score more citadels than most, and I know a couple of guys who taught they could win an engagement against me using HE, be it playing the Buyonny or the Baltimore, I blowed them away before they could realise what happened to them. Only it was 1vs1 and spammers doesn't play this way, when they do against me, they loose more than they win.

 

You perhaps haven't realised the extend of the abuse of HE in this game but W.G have and they introduced this new skill to counter that, promote better aiming skill, encourage dymanic and manoeuvring play styles, not for some guy to camp in smoke or behind islands firing enough rounds to walk on them with the guaranty to start a fire sooner than later... Spammers have pushed it, here is the backfire.

 

So hang on, HE is part of the game, introduced by WG. Long range HE spam, by cruisers is  a requirement due to the current camping meta, but you focus on hating the HE spammers. That is some twisted logic.

 

Take a look at Flamu's latest cruiser vids discussing changing to range mods because of how the game is now. And aiming is required to hit superstructure at distance and to vary the holdover to start multiple fires.

And you also need to remember that fire is light damage and repairable.

 

 

 

 

True but they never have forseen to which extend it would affect the playstyles, in fact, they nerfed AP to avoid people camping and encourage a more dynamic game, with the opposite effect guess who came from WoT with this tactic as favourite way to pile up damage? It wouldn't be so much of an issue if the right ammo was used vs the right type of ship but it is gone WAY too far.

 

Now, I didn't make this remark toward anyone here or even advise anyone to play my way but this change is a new deal for everyone, and I for one will be using this Fire Prevention skill because I am fade up being melted by idiots camping and spamming this ammo.

 

In many games I scored more kills than most of my team not using a single round of HE, only for the "top guys" to start criticising my score, OK i'm not a genius, but when you end up second behind a BB two tiers above your ship not firing a single round of HE, scoring 3 citadels and 3 kills, it says something else than tons of damage obtained using H.E, W.G are not idiots they noticed.

[DexterManley]

 

 

"Fire has little psycholocgical effect from the PoV of spammers, a Cruiser like those I play are low HP, so you CANT afford to let a fire melt you, they know it, they chose their ships/guns accordingly this is why it is spamming and not a tactical use of ammo in the first place, I can pen any Cruiser with mines, it's not as easy but I score more citadels than most, and I know a couple of guys who taught they could win an engagement against me using HE, be it playing the Buyonny or the Baltimore, I blowed them away before they could realise what happened to them. Only it was 1vs1 and spammers doesn't play this way, when they do against me, they loose more than they win."

 

Really? How can you know this?

 

[ThinderChief]

Simply because it is much easier to score damage this way, at least on other Cruisers, it's not for the psychological effect of fire, just to remind you that this game is damage/XP/credit based, and that bar guys like me who doesn't give a toss about stats, everyone else pretty much wants to pile up damages first, regardless of ship roles, team mates fate, playstyle and the rest of it, then hit stats and scores are shown in games remember?

 

So it shows during and after games plus HE doesn't pen as much nor does the guns which generally are used by spammers, sorry, but many are using guns with high rates of fire but lower pen than that of a Kirov, Buyonny or Baltimore, which are not necessarily the best fire starter but have high pen capabilities, best excmaple being the two Roons I deleted lately, I used to fear them, not anymore.

 

And you don't citadel targets your bum parked in a smoke bubble or behind an island unless you play with idiots who stays in a straight line constantly. Spammers CAN ONLY SPAM HE to score high, if you want higher score only using AP you need to maneuver and take more risks, or in some cases, use high ark guns like that of the USN ships, which is what I do and when they try, they general fail because it takes practise and more skills than just hiding and throwing as many rounds as possible in the general direction of a ship.

 

 

[RobS80]

Depends if the cruiser is facing you or broadside to you. If its facing you, then only HE will do any damage in a like for like tier situation. If its showing any side then change to AP and you will melt them.

 

Pointless relying on fire damage in a cruiser to cruiser fight when you can remove them in a single well placed AP volley. I can count on one hand the number of players in a cruiser I ever faced using HE past tier 6 once AP becomes reliably strong enough.

[DexterManley]

So, again I ask, how do you know that you score more citadels than most? As far as I am aware there is no way of comparing that sort of damage with anybody else's damage.

[RobS80]

So, again I ask, how do you know that you score more citadels than most? As far as I am aware there is no way of comparing that sort of damage with anybody else's damage.

 

Sorry, whom are you asking? Quotes are generally a good idea

[DexterManley]

 

"Fire has little psycholocgical effect from the PoV of spammers, a Cruiser like those I play are low HP, so you CANT afford to let a fire melt you, they know it, they chose their ships/guns accordingly this is why it is spamming and not a tactical use of ammo in the first place, I can pen any Cruiser with mines, it's not as easy but I score more citadels than most, and I know a couple of guys who taught they could win an engagement against me using HE, be it playing the Buyonny or the Baltimore, I blowed them away before they could realise what happened to them. Only it was 1vs1 and spammers doesn't play this way, when they do against me, they loose more than they win."

 

Really? How can you know this?

 

This was my previous question with the area in question highlighted. My question was not answered, so I asked again.................

 

 

"So, again I ask, how do you know that you score more citadels than most? As far as I am aware there is no way of comparing that sort of damage with anybody else's damage."

 

[pihip_wg]

How odd for a thread that's one month old to be still alive, guess it turned into a general debate about cruiser. Wasn't my intention but if it helps you folks, then good enough.

 

Anyway, I picked the Soviet line and had lots of fun with the Bogatyr, not as much with the Svietlana but still nice, and then came the Kirov and oh boy is that ship hard to play. I wouldn't say she's bad, her guns are very accurate and she's a good firestarter (guess the Soviet HE are large molotov cocktails), and to some extent I did learn how to play support to bigger allies or a pack of cruisers, but it seems to me that enemies know the Soviets are made of tinfoil, and even if there's three of us and only I am the Soviet one, I'll be the target because hey easy damage!

 

Of course, I also blame the frequent losses to poor positioning and lack of situational awareness on my part, but hey it's been a little more than a month since I've started this game, it took me the better part of a year to become somewhat decent with World of Tanks, I guess it'll be the same here.