Struggling with the Bayern.

[Rozbrus]

Hello, last Sunday I got my Bayern and I have been stuggling with it ever since. My problem is the high arc of main guns. On every other BB I have played, from S. Carolina to New Mexico and from Nassau to König I have not have such a problem to hit anything. Even on my Scharnhorst I aim at the enemy, check time to target, put the horizontal line a bit above the waterline, compensate for speed and I hit. How many times, that is a differnt story, but I hit.

When I do the same on Bayern, my shots go all the way up, take a sightseeing tour around the Moon and then finaly decide to fall back. The result is they land at a place the enemy ship was a minute ago. It usualy takes me two or three battles to "learn" how to aim with Bayern. After that, it gets better, I can shoot for 60k damage at least, hell I even managed oneshot DD under angle (but it was more a pure luck). But then I can not switch ships, because if I do, all is lost. I have managed to get 43k XP on this ship and I am considering using the free XP I have collected to skip it completely. It simply is not fun. Yes, it is sturdy, yes it can tank, but it can not, at least under my command, hit anything in most battles. What am I doing wrong? What is the solution? Are next German ships (Gneis and Bis) the same, or are they back to the flat trajectory guns?

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

allot of us didnt liked it but just play or free xp, for sure it was worst bb from line

[1MajorKoenig]

allot of us didnt liked it but just play or free xp, for sure it was worst bb from line

 

Wut? I would not agree. Punchy (while fewer) guns, excellent armor and decent secondaries as a cherry on top. What else can you ask for in a battleship?

 

You need to get close to the enemy though - sniping is a pure waste of time!

[ItachiZero]

to be honest. its my favoritt Tier 6 ship at the moment. love brawling with it and almost never takes torps. its a ship that likes to be at the frontlines.

you are gonna hear that alot about BBs and Bayern is really the best brawler in tier 6. but she really hates long range engements. that is my exp

[Srle_Vigilante]

Well the Bayern can do alot of things, but one of them is not sniping and if you hate staying at long range with that thing wait until you reach the Freddy and the Kurry.

German BBs are not meant for long range engagements, usually stick within the 13ish km range max. Its all about that CQC man.

 

Now.... the Gneisenau, im not saying its a bad ship by any stretch. Its OK but in my opinion, but it's definitely the worst tier by tier german BB. Its still competitive with its armor and speed but the lack of firepower will make you rage sometimes.

[MeTaLMooSe]

It doesn't matter what gun arcs you have. The shell time to target indicator, range and ship speed dictate lead.

I've just rebought Bayern. I didn't have it in time for last seasons ranked and it was the tier 6 BB.

15" guns, good speed and agility, great stealth and troll armour.

What's not to like?

[Rozbrus]

Thank you all for answers. I have a feeling that Bayern is either liked or hated. I am affraid for me it is the latter. I know it is a good ship, once it hits. I know it is better to get close, but sometimes it is not an option. But as I mentioned, the spread is not a problem. Scharnhorst has even bigger spread, yet I am able to land my shot more or less wher I want. Will give it a more try to find out what am I doing wrong. But I swear the time + lead combination does not work. Or maybe I am just bad :-(

[BCHood]

The only few things Bayern is missing is good accuracy at long range shots, extended battery range and top speed, but you can see why it would be overpowered compared to everything else at a tier (and a tier higher). You get 15 inch guns, eight of them, with excellent AP, really good belt with turtleback and bow armor, decent range, pretty good secondary armament, decent speed, pretty good concealment, pretty good agility. In many retrospects, it sacrifices Warspite's top end accuracy for better armor and better brawling, otherwise a similar vessel, and in itself, is a better ship between the two.

 

That said, the current meta is pretty campy and snipy. This is my only gripe with Scharnhorst as well, because at first two phases of the match, you're forced into a sniper role that neither feels very comfortable or very useful, and it can be frustrating to do any damage and score good hits at all with these ships. What this means is that the third phase you either didn't expose and have almost full HP bar and consumables, and are ready to brawl in and do your best, or you're weathered down by this time from the incessant sniping and long range AP shots, which do hit for a good amount thanks to relatively weak deck armor and knack to get the 33 percent pens at long ranges, and you struggle to make an impact on the game. On the flip side, going too aggressive at the start of the game, more often then not, ends in you at the bottom of the ocean. It's that balance between spotting a right opening and sliding in and brawling, and staying behind and doing some quasy support but surviving for later, that makes it so frustrating to play. In Scharnhorst case, you atleast have high top end speed, so you always have ability to slide in when you see an opening, with Bayern, you start but if you misjudge, you find yourself concentrated upon heavy fire, with no means of escape.

 

I can see your frustration with the Bayern - it can struggle, thanks to its relatively low speed, to get into the favorable range for it's guns to start hitting. This is the same problem you will continue to face with all the following KM BBs, some more some less.

 

Good hunting.

[Ferry_25]

I'm having the same thing OP. Actually your are just ahead of me to open this up. With all the previous BB's I had great times. Of course: had to get the hang it first but they all shined. I've been looking around in the Forum and on YT. I might be on to something about Bayern. Please correct me if I'm wrong! It seems that BB has ridiculous strong guns. It shoots right through stuff like it wasn't even there. So making a lot of tiny holes in the enemies and eventually you'll have enough holes to sink it. Unfortunately: you don't have that time since you can easily go take a shower, have a nice cup of coffee and take your dog for a walk before you can shoot your next salvo. Your experience with the 1 shot DD have actually strengthen my assumption. And that being said: I am trying to go for angled targets rahter than broadside, so the AP rounds have more resistance and more chance to detonate instead of just shooting through the ships. Also the dispersion on long range makes Mikasa look like the most razorsharp laser beam shooter ever. I try to get in closer range before I open up. Also specced the boat for secondaries as well. Did a match or two with this "tactic" and it seems it's helping. Did nice damage rounds (from my POV of course).

 

Maybe this'll help you?

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I find the Bayern is a pretty fine BB. The last time until T9 where German BBs get the biggest guns in their tier.

 

Don't shoot until you're in detection range or even closer. Her guns derp so hard on accuracy at longer ranges. 

 

Takes a bit of adjustment as something like a Fuso isn't going to over pen as much, which can often mean more damage vs cruisers. 

[lup3s]

I like the Bayern as much as I liked the Kawachi and Myogi.. i.e. I hate it.

 

Yes, the Bayern has the highest calibre at its tier (together with the Warspite), but this results in an endless streak of overpens (especially at close range).

Overpens against broadside cruisers.

Overpens against broadside battleships.

Overpens.

Overpens.

Overpens.

 

 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I like the Bayern as much as I liked the Kawachi and Myogi.. i.e. I hate it.

 

Yes, the Bayern has the highest calibre at its tier (together with the Warspite), but this results in an endless streak of overpens (especially at close range).

Overpens against broadside cruisers.

Overpens against broadside battleships.

Overpens.

Overpens.

Overpens.

 

 

I would've Free XP'd this piece of crap if I weren't saving for the Missouri.

I really hate playing the Bayern and I'll be so glad once I've finished the horrible grind.

 

I hated all German BB beneath the Bayern, including the Konig. Would rather Bayern's guns any day. Maybe I just target BBs mostly in her, I haven't noticed that she over pens more than any other BB.

 

Warspite has far better accuracy and i believe her shells are softer so will shatter or detonate which gives a lot more success against more ships. But she is a Prem with rubbish turrets so needs some perks 

[lup3s]

 

I hated all German BB beneath the Bayern, including the Konig. Would rather Bayern's guns any day. Maybe I just target BBs mostly in her, I haven't noticed that she over pens more than any other BB.

 

Warspite has far better accuracy and i believe her shells are softer so will shatter or detonate which gives a lot more success against more ships. But she is a Prem with rubbish turrets so needs some perks 

 

I added a screenshot which kind of shows my average battle with the Bayern.

 

I really love the König and kind of liked the Kaiser. They might have a lower calibre but it suited my style of playing a lot better (i.e. getting up-close and shotgunning enemy ships).

Salvoes with the König or Kaiser that would delete a nearby (full health) enemy cruiser just result in a ton of overpens with the Bayern; and usually end up in me dying because of that stupid amount of overpens.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

I added a screenshot which kind of shows my average battle with the Bayern.

 

I really love the König and kind of liked the Kaiser. They might have a lower calibre but it suited my style of playing a lot better (i.e. getting up-close and shotgunning enemy ships).

Salvoes with the König or Kaiser that would delete a nearby (full health) enemy cruiser just result in a ton of overpens with the Bayern; and usually end up in me dying because of that stupid amount of overpens.

 

Aim lower in the Bayern at close range to smash through the engine room of weakling cruisers. 

 

Konig became a condemned ship for me when her AP failed me at long ranges vs other BB. Her pen values feel far lower than even a Scharnorst. If she was Kongo fast it wouldn't be an issue.

 

Bayern is fast for a T6 too with only the Dunker being faster. A lot of BB have various traits that need to be understood to get the best from them. 

[lup3s]

 

Aim lower in the Bayern at close range to smash through the engine room of weakling cruisers. 

 

Konig became a condemned ship for me when her AP failed me at long ranges vs other BB. Her pen values feel far lower than even a Scharnorst. If she was Kongo fast it wouldn't be an issue.

 

Bayern is fast for a T6 too with only the Dunker being faster. A lot of BB have various traits that need to be understood to get the best from them. 

 

I've tried that (even trying to make the shell hit the water first so it doesn't overpen), but I just can't make it work. Only 4k XP left to the Gneisenau

[El2aZeR]

Bayern actually has far worse penetration power than New Mexico, so the only thing that really aids her in that regard is overmatch (which may be undesirable since you also get a lot of overpens). Couple that with horrible accuracy + only 8 guns and she'll feel rather weak from time to time despite her supposedly good statistics.

I certainly didn't enjoy the grind in the Bayern, but it wasn't a horrible chore either. She had games where she performed brilliantly, but in most of them she felt rather "meh".

[RUSSIANBlAS]

I think her Derpy guns are the price you pay for probably the best T6 BB armour currently in game. 

 

Although once you know where to shoot (tip: aim higher) then it isn't that much of a bonus.

 

I like her anyway. I can get along with most BB, my port is rammed with them. I only really dislike the Konig and Izumo 

[1MajorKoenig]

I think her Derpy guns are the price you pay for probably the best T6 BB armour currently in game. 

 

Although once you know where to shoot (tip: aim higher) then it isn't that much of a bonus.

 

I like her anyway. I can get along with most BB, my port is rammed with them. I only really dislike the Konig and Izumo 

 

You don't like Koenig?? I absolutely love her!!! She's my absolute favorite ship at the moment :-)

 

However, agree with aiming higher. For whatever reason I find the Japanese aim-at-the-waterline less successful on German BBs.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

 

You don't like Koenig?? I absolutely love her!!! She's my absolute favorite ship at the moment :-)

 

However, agree with aiming higher. For whatever reason I find the Japanese aim-at-the-waterline less successful on German BBs.

 

Yes, I'm part of a small minority who hates the Konig. Has lame guns, but I'm talking as a big Scharn fan so figures!!

 

IJN BB tend to have weaker overall armour patterns so you stand a decent chance at blowing through their main armoured bits. USN and KM tend to need higher shot placement yes.

[fgibert]

sorry ignore double post

[fgibert]

I have a feeling that Bayern is either liked or hated.

Sorry to disagree with you but I actually think this is a pretty average ship 

Strong armor and somewhat high-damage guns balanced by a low number of barrels, poor dispersion and more overpens.

 

It feels globally average but with extreme individual games (either very poor if you cannot find an enemy BB to brawl against, or very good otherwise)

In the same and yet opposite way, the Konig is globally average with individually average games (low-pen low-alpha quick-firing guns do less citadels against BBs but also less overpens against DDs and CLs)

[MeTaLMooSe]

I must admit I'm having many poor to average games since rebuying it.

I have noticed much harsher mm. I suspect because ranked has finished and the tier 8's have repopulated the server.

Will have to follow lord Nelsons advice and move closer!

[Rozbrus]

Hello again, I tried all your advice yesterady afternoon and today morning and I must say Bayern changed from a bad to a somewhat useful. I have even managed some citadels (today morning, one battle and I citadeled a Dunkerque at point blank). We won and that put me to a total of 65k XP. Only 15k to Gneisenau now

The second match I was able to make in the morning was in my New Mexico and while I managed to do almost the same amount of damage as in the previous battle with Bayern (slightly over 70k) the ship just felt better. Better armor (it seems to me I can withstand much more hits), more accurate guns, almost same speed but most importantly much much better turn rate. Unfortunately Colorado vs. Gneisenau is an easy choice for me, so I am taking my time with the Mexico.

Anyway if anyone struggles with the Bayern, read advice here. Try to get a bit closer, 13km and less (I know, sometime it is easier said than done). Also aim a bit over the waterline. And do not rely on secondaries. Yes, there are many of them, they fire quite fast with the skill, they reach 7.2km with the skill and can burn enemies, but they are still way inaccurate, especially if you do not have a 15 points captain as myself. I use them mostly as an indicator that there is an enemy getting too close. Also if you see a DD, turn away. Especially if you have guns turned to the oposite site. Seriously, it.....takes.....ages.....to......turn.....your......turrets. And even if you manage to aim, you will most probably miss. And even if you do make a hit, it will be a overpen in 99% cases.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Even a 15 point captain is a waste of time in a Bayern if specced for Secondaries. The buff is poor until T7. Better off putting it into Manual AA as Bayern's AA becomes fearsome then.

[El2aZeR]

Funny, New Mexico has slower turret traverse than the Bayern (180 degree turn time is slower by almost 10 seconds assuming no mods and skills).

Or slightly worse maneuverability, depending on what you mean by "turn rate".

 

Honestly, if you're not happy about the accuracy on the Bayern, you're not going to be happy about it on the Gneisenau/Bismarck either (since it remains the same). Faster reload coupled with even faster turret traverse makes overall gunnery a bit more comfy on them however.

 

Can't say anything about Friedrich or Kurführst since I don't have them yet.