IJN DD | 0.5.15 | Perma camos - should there have been a refund option?

[T_H_0_R]

As a person who bought perma camo for T8 Fubuki, as of today I will be given new T8 Kagero and T6 Fubuki. Both of which with permanent camos as a compensation.

 

Problem is, I am not even slightly interested in them. Wasn't into Kagero before when it was T9, and not into the gutted T6 Fubuki. Even less now with the introduction of new ships on the same (old) and added (new) line.

 

Therefore I have basically wasted 3000 dublons as if I have been buying consumables.

 

Yesteday I sent a support ticket asking for a refund, saying that I shouldn't be given the new replacement camos. They refused.

 

Hence my interest on public opinion here. Am I the only one who feels cheated?

[T_H_0_R]

There was a large label on the top right, seems I checked "poll only" box. Removed it now. Not sure what it does.

 

Thank you for voting. Interesting to see it shifting from one side to the other, then back again. 

[Hanszeehock]

I think the compensation is very generous. I assume people buy these camos because it makes their ships look nice and you get extra modifiers.

 

Regular ships are always subject to change, we all know this. For example, a change to USN CAs has been talked about for ages and if it happens no one will be surprised. WG were never going to give a refund for something like this and that makes perfect sense. And in my opinion but Fubuki and Kagero are both great ships and fun to play at their new tiers. 

[T_H_0_R]

No problem with changing regular ships. And I do think the compensation is generous. However one sided it is.

 

The problem for me is that the old ship no longer exist and I have no use of the compensation offered. Thus the lack of satisfaction on the matter and why I feel cheated.

 

I do feel some of the new ships are great and will definitively try them out. But, for someone who has been paying for premium from day 1 over a year now, and I have bought 5xT8, 1xT9 and 1xT10 perma camo, together with 2 premium T7 ships - I do feel that I have the right to ask for a refund of something I can no longer use.

 

[Admiral_noodle]

I'm not going to comment on what WG should or might have done. I can see both sides of the discussion. I do think the solution WG have opted for is a lot more generous than it might have been though. Free ships and free permanent camos.

 

Thing is with perma camo - whenever you buy it you need to be aware that WG reserve the right to alter the ship you bought it for at any time, and the likelihood of this happening is high, while we know premium ships are unlikely to change much from previous experience.

 

So when buying a premium camo you have to think - will I still play this ship if it changes? Am I willing to spend the money knowing change will inevitably happen.

 

Buyer beware.

[basharran]

I'm not going to comment on what WG should or might have done. I can see both sides of the discussion. I do think the solution WG have opted for is a lot more generous than it might have been though. Free ships and free permanent camos.

 

Thing is with perma camo - whenever you buy it you need to be aware that WG reserve the right to alter the ship you bought it for at any time, and the likelihood of this happening is high, while we know premium ships are unlikely to change much from previous experience.

 

So when buying a premium camo you have to think - will I still play this ship if it changes? Am I willing to spend the money knowing change will inevitably happen.

 

Buyer beware.

 

I think they should give the option to refund the prem cammo (maybe at a reduced price for the time you had/used it) when they shuffle and rebalance the ships like they have done now. You buy that cammo because you liked that ship in it's configuration and stats and want to keep it and behave more like a premium ship, so you argument about calculating future changes are not quite fair in my opinion.

 

Edit: I also feel like this about premium ships they might change.

[Xevious_Red]

Personally they should offer a refund of it.

 

Most people get a permanent camo because they like that specific ship, rather than simply what tier it is.

 

The current replacement of camo is generous for players that only bought it to make their grind faster. It's not so good for people that loved the tier 8 fubuki, dislike the kagero, and have no interest in playing a tier 6 ship that behaves differently.

 

Personally I don't have any permanent camos so this doesn't affect me but it adds another reason why I won't be using them

[Admiral_noodle]

 

I think they should give the option to refund the prem cammo (maybe at a reduced price for the time you had/used it) when they shuffle and rebalance the ships like they have done now. You buy that cammo because you liked that ship in it's configuration and stats and want to keep it and behave more like a premium ship, so you argument about calculating future changes are not quite fair in my opinion.

 

Edit: I also feel like this about premium ships they might change.

 

But that's never going to happen. All of the ships are subject to change. Thing is you pay a one off fee to "rent" premiums and premium camo. Why should you get the benefit of it for X period of time then get your money back when you don't want it any more - playing devils advocate a bit here but I think it's a valid point too. 

 

The premium camo still works. The ship it's on still works AND you have another ship as well. You may not like its changes and the new ship, but that's the same with any buff/nerf/change to MM. 

 

I can't seal club tier 3 in Murmansk. Can I have my money back?

[T_H_0_R]

Perma camo should be treated as a consumable. Do so and you will not be disappointed as I am now.

 

Besides, unlike Fletcher's camo for the example, all IJN look alike and are a cheap copy of one another. Won't be buying them again.

[Elenortirion]

I don't know, but I have got IJN DDs so no option in a poll fits my opinion on the case

 

[T_H_0_R]

I don't know, but I have got IJN DDs so no option in a poll fits my opinion on the case

 

Added "or" to the last option. Your reply is in there.

[Elenortirion]

 

Added "or" to the last option. Your reply is in there.

 

thx

 

to elaborate - current scheme seems be very generous to me, having option to get doublons instead could be nice, and I understand people wanting it, but I dunno if it "should be" here, would be prolly nice but there are so many factors to be included in case to determine if they should and I don;t feel objective for the case enought to weight them all properly to judge should/shouldn't case

[RoyalColor]

Oh yes, I got 3 free perma camos this morning, even though I have never bought one before. The option to sell them now for 9000 doubloons would be a most welcome one 

 

Please gib WG.

[tenacious_torps]

So when buying a premium camo you have to think - will I still play this ship if it changes? Am I willing to spend the money knowing change will inevitably happen.

 

Buyer beware.

 

Since there is no possibility whatsoever to know what Wargaming might come up with in the future apart from the rather questionable crystal ball method, what you are effectively saying is simply: Do not buy premium camo. In fact this extends to any purchase in the game by now, since it is also highly questionable that the game will have much of a future under the current style of management. WG are failing to grow the game and have blundered several opportunities where it was reasonable to expect a considerable growth of the player base. Consult wikipedia on sunken cost fallacy before future spending, that's my advice. Only if you are convinced that WG are capable of maintaining this game as something enjoyable in the longer run should you support them with your purchase. I will refrain for the foreseeable future. 

[Admiral_noodle]

 

Since there is no possibility whatsoever to know what Wargaming might come up with in the future apart from the rather questionable crystal ball method, what you are effectively saying is simply: Do not buy premium camo. In fact this extends to any purchase in the game by now, since it is also highly questionable that the game will have much of a future under the current style of management. WG are failing to grow the game and have blundered several opportunities where it was reasonable to expect a considerable growth of the player base. Consult wikipedia on sunken cost fallacy before future spending, that's my advice. Only if you are convinced that WG are capable of maintaining this game as something enjoyable in the longer run should you support them with your purchase. I will refrain for the foreseeable future. 

 

Well I disagree with this in general. First because I think the game has a future and is pretty good now. Second because if I like a ship I'll buy premium camo for it knowing it will change. If it changes I'll take that as a challenge to learn the ship again. 

 

I also have faith that truly garbage ships get buffed (I've bought back NC now) and WG do try to balance ships to make them playable. After all if I didn't believe that I wouldn't be a super tester. 

 

finally given the way WG have compensated premium camo owners I'm MORE likely to purchase them now, not less. 

[Cosseria]

I think the solution is fair. If you liked the look of camouflaged Fubuki you can still see her; if you bought the camo for grinding purposes, it's still there. A refund in doubloons would have been potentially unfair for the other players: imagine having accelerated your progess so far thanks to the prem camo and now being able to buy a new one for maybe a totally different T8 ship; it would be like buying XP flags and having them refunded after you used some if not most of them.

[CollingwoodDK]

I think the solution is fair. If you liked the look of camouflaged Fubuki you can still see her; if you bought the camo for grinding purposes, it's still there. A refund in doubloons would have been potentially unfair for the other players: imagine having accelerated your progess so far thanks to the prem camo and now being able to buy a new one for maybe a totally different T8 ship; it would be like buying XP flags and having them refunded after you used some if not most of them.

Probably you think to much - and know to little ?`Funny how you make a point - Dude it is a new ship anyway. Is there any brain - where this statement comes from ? It seems, you are for radical  solutions! Free prem camouflage for all IJN DD you have in port - why not !

[Cosseria]

I don't think my logic has any major flaw, on the other hand, you seem to extrapolate a bit too much and to mess my rhetoric example with actual proposals that I never put forward. I just explained why in my opinion WG couldn't give the doubloons back.

[Hedgehog1963]

You paid for premium camo on your Tier VIII DD.  Your Tier VIII DD has premium camo.  I don't see the problem, other than a sense of entitlement to free stuff going unfulfilled.

 

I paid for Fubuki camo some months back.  My Kagero has camo there now.   I also got camo on other ships, s like the new Tier IX which replaced my old Kagero at that tier. I've gained as part of the reworking of the ships.  I still have what I paid for.  Some others have got something free I paid for?   Good for them.

 

 

Compare this though.  I bought prem camo for Minekaze and that ship is now no good.  There is a genuine cause for complaint.    I shall however not make an issue of it because I got free premium camo paint for my Tier IX.

[T_H_0_R]

I paid for Fubuki camo some months back.  My Kagero has camo there now.   I also got camo on other ships, s like the new Tier IX which replaced my old Kagero at that tier. I've gained as part of the reworking of the ships.  I still have what I paid for.  Some others have got something free I paid for?   Good for them.

 

Did you have perma camo before, for the old T9 Kagero?

 

If so, I did not see that part of the compensation in the patch notes...

[tenacious_torps]

Well I disagree with this in general. First because I think the game has a future and is pretty good now. Second because if I like a ship I'll buy premium camo for it knowing it will change. If it changes I'll take that as a challenge to learn the ship again. 

 

If that's true then explain to me why the player base is not growing despite the addition of several lines that could reasonably be expected to pull players (back) in. RN was highly anticipated, didn't have any noticeable impact, even German BBs didn't do much more than a rather short-lived spike. That's stagnating at best. How many bullets has WG left at this point? There was a time when we had 50.000+ players on the server, we are lucky to break half of that these days. 

 

You may take it as a challenge, but it's nevertheless the exact opposite of sound business practice if you expect people to cough up for a product of unknown and changing qualities. That's customer dissatisfaction build right in. Set up to fail. People paid to make a ship they enjoy more viable in the game economy. Take it away and frustration is the logical and inevitable result. Businesses that frustrate their customers fail if there is any meaningful competition. Since there's no shortage of other games and publishers who'l happily take your money for products with a lot less potential frustration - so better value - the verdict from this perspective again is: future not particularly bright. 

 

And with that we come to the customer care department... Each and everyone of the complaints now heard were voiced already well in advance, asap as info on the upcoming changes leaked. Two more problems right there: info is something you get in time from scattered sources across the internet rather than from the company running the show and even if you try to raise issues before the crap hit the fast rotating object it without exception fails to produce any meaningful reaction. No, some henchmen spouting the sales pitch doesn't count. Which all in all just leads to even more dissatisfaction. 

 

So again, in the light of all that, explain to me where is the bright future for this mess? Because I frankly fail to see it. What I see is a slow death, sinking like a BB out of repairs with just one hull breach too many. 

 

Edit: another thing that doesn't help: I can't fail to notice how one of the more vocal threads complaining about the shenanigans was closed and quickly put where the sun does not shine. Just shows they know well enough they know they've got something to hide. Why the hell would I entrust them with my money on purchases that only pay up over a longer period of time?

[Hedgehog1963]

 

Did you have perma camo before, for the old T9 Kagero?

 

If so, I did not see that part of the compensation in the patch notes...

 

No I did not. I have only ever bought perma camo for three DDs  Benson, Minekaze and the old Fubuki.

 

 This new Tier IX ship Yugumo has the -3%/+4% 20% reduced costs and 100% XP - Type 19 camo for free.  That would be 4000 gold to buy!  I would never have bought it because the ship is not a keeper.

[T_H_0_R]

 

No I did not. I have only ever bought perma camo for three DDs  Benson, Minekaze and the old Fubuki.

 

 This new Tier IX ship Yugumo has the -3%/+4% 20% reduced costs and 100% XP - Type 19 camo for free.  That would be 4000 gold to buy!  I would never have bought it because the ship is not a keeper.

 

To me it looks like an undocumented gift from WG. Nothing about that in the patch notes. A free 4000 dublon camo for the loss of 3000 one, plus the advertised compensation of the same 3000 dublon camo for T8, and the new T6 one for IIRC 1000 dublons...

 

Not all of us were so fortunate to get a free undocumented gift. Enjoy it while you can, unless they decide to let you keep it.

[Hedgehog1963]

 

To me it looks like an undocumented gift from WG. Nothing about that in the patch notes. A free 4000 dublon camo for the loss of 3000 one, plus the advertised compensation of the same 3000 dublon camo for T8, and the new T6 one for IIRC 1000 dublons...

 

Not all of us were so fortunate to get a free undocumented gift. Enjoy it while you can, unless they decide to let you keep it.

 

I don't understand where I'm supposed to have "lost" a 3000 dubloon camo.  I originally paid 3000 for camo for my Fubuki at Tier VIII.  Now I have that camo on Fubuki at Tier VI (this is bonus camo on a bonus ship!), camo on my Kagero at Tier VIII (this is what I consider I paid for) and camo on my Yugumo (bonus).

 

I got two free premium camos and still have the Tier VIII premium camo I paid for. 

[T_H_0_R]

 

I don't understand where I'm supposed to have "lost" a 3000 dubloon camo.  I originally paid 3000 for camo for my Fubuki at Tier VIII.  Now I have that camo on Fubuki at Tier VI (this is bonus camo on a bonus ship!), camo on my Kagero at Tier VIII (this is what I consider I paid for) and camo on my Yugumo (bonus).

 

I got two free premium camos and still have the Tier VIII premium camo I paid for. 

 

Show me where does it say you should have received a Yugumo's perma camo for free as well? I did not find such info in the patch notes.

 

The poll was based on the patch notes. Not some WG's mistake of handing out perma camos like there is no tomorrow. Then again, this is WG after all. 

 

My comments about the poll and compensation are about the ships that replaced T8 Fubuki. T8 Kagero is inferior. And T6 Fubuki is not the same ship any more. Thus both were sold upon arriving into my port.