"Pocket battleship"

[RUSSIANBlAS]

By your logic you should never play any ship, because there will always be something that out-performs it in some way. For example: Do you think the Tenryu is a bad ship because it has few guns and nearly no armor? Obviously how competent the enemies will be is only a matter of luck, but in my experience it's one of the (potentially) greatest ships in the game. BBs ignore it as a low threat until they get torped and DDs better have some support if they dare to approach.

 

Tenryu doesn't get farmed by full secondary build Bismarcks...

 

I personally don't find T6 BBs that bad vs T8. 

 

Maybe AGS will be part of a free campaign? As WG's apology for bad PR and Russian paper?

[thestaggy]

The next game update adds Admiral Graf Spee for testing. It'll be a tier 6 cruiser.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Graf_Spee

 

So it'll have way too few firepower to fight a BB and way too long reload time to fight a DD. It's probably only going to be useful against big cruisers. Sort of like that tier 7 american cruiser Indianapolis. Then again with 4 torpedoes per side, it might just be able to take down a BB, if it manages to ambush one around a corner, or something.

 

Any ideas?

 

I predict it'll be somewhat useful for yolo-rushes: Just barely big enough to quickly take out a cruiser and possibly still maneuverable enough to out-turn a torpedo, or two and maybe still fast enough to drive away from a proper BB. ... *Checks wikipedia* 26 knots? ...What were the germans thinking? Just 4 more knots and it could have been a so much better ship.

 

At the time of her construction she had the guns to kill any cruiser fast enough to catch her while still being fast enough to outrun any British of French battleship that could kill her. The only ships she had to worry about were battlecruisers.

 

According to LittleWhiteMouse (LWM) on the NA server;

- She is good at dealing front loaded damage to cruisers and battleships, but cannot stand and slug it out with battleships and she can quickly lose the DPM race to a kiting cruiser with a lower caliber.

- She lacks the rate of fire to deter a destroyer that wants to sink her. The ability of the respective captains obviously plays a roll, but a good destroyer captain will not be deterred by her. She just doesn't have the rate of fire.

- DO NOT BRAWL. This was made clear by LWM. The armour is not there and BBs will delete you quicker than you will harm them. Also, due to the low rate of fire, missed salvos by the Graf Spee will put her in a bad spot.

[OldIronsides]

[...]

 

I predict it'll be somewhat useful for yolo-rushes: Just barely big enough to quickly take out a cruiser and possibly still maneuverable enough to out-turn a torpedo, or two and maybe still fast enough to drive away from a proper BB. ... *Checks wikipedia* 26 knots? ...What were the germans thinking? Just 4 more knots and it could have been a so much better ship.

 

1. Washington Treaty Regulations

2. Concept: "Outrun everything that you can't outgun, outgun everything you can't outrun.

 

With the advent of fast battleships this concept did not work anymore, I'll give you that. But you also have to consider what the Deutschland-class was designed for: raids against merchant traffic, far off enemy main fleet posts, where the Deutschlands would only face light and (few) heavy cruisers. Well, that was the plan, at least.

[psl_58]

For Deutschland the top speed was 26 knots DEEP , while top speed STANDARD was 28 knots. Max power was 105% allowing another 1/2 knot of speed for maybe 1/ hour. Follow on models improved these figures by 1/3 knot and 1/2 knot respectively. In trials the Admiral Graf Spee reached 29.3 knots in a 'measured mile'. The hull design was supposed to reach 30 knots, but torpedo bulges made poor 'hull form' losing the speed.

 

 

There was a plan to correct these problems on the PBS interrupted  by the war. However their was also a wartime plan to extend the hull by 10 meters and convert it into an aircraft carrier.

[cro_pwr]

3 kills and 6 citadel hits and some kills with torps and he still thinks it's useless?

 

He didn't call it useless. He just said (and I agree) that if you are going to spend your money on a german premium, then you are better off with Scharnhorst.

3 more guns, same speed, more armor, more HP, cannot be citadeled etc...

And just a tier difference, so usually they will both fight against t7-8 most of the time.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

He didn't call it useless. He just said (and I agree) that if you are going to spend your money on a german premium, then you are better off with Scharnhorst.

3 more guns, same speed, more armor, more HP, cannot be citadeled etc...

And just a tier difference, so usually they will both fight against t7-8 most of the time.

 

However: Admiral Graf Spee has a cruiser icon so you can use her for cruiser missions. For example the current mission row in which you need to dish out 50k dmg to cruisers and 3 citadel hits. Or several more of the current campaigns (hit citadels, destroy secondary mounts etc)

 

edit: I agree though that Scharnhorst will probably be superior in every way possible.

[praetor_jax]

So, why is this in the battleship section?

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Because it is a Panzerschiff. I think of it as an honorary member of the battleship line divided by icon, united in purpose.

[praetor_jax]

Panzerschiff = Ironclad warship

Deutschland-class are cruisers.

[SmartassNoob]

Because these ships are well known as "pocket battleships". Duh.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

Because these ships are well known as "pocket battleships". Duh.

Just because people call it a battleship doesnt mean it is. It never was a battleship. Try playing it like one and see how far you get.

[El2aZeR]

Well, the official designation was "Panzerschiff" (ironclad/armored ship) as already mentioned, later on reclassified as CAs but still often referred to as "pocket battleships". It may actually not be far off to say that these were small battlecruisers if you want an accurate designation.

[SmartassNoob]

Yeah and as we all know, according to wargaming, battlecruiser = battleship.

[psl_58]

Original parliamentary debates classified these warships as either PANZER KREUZERS , PANZERSCHIFFE & POCKET BATTLESHIPS, depending on who was debating and what angle they should sell the program. [iE Vs old WW-I battleships, or modern cruiser squadrons etc] . PANZERSCHIFFE was the classification when Parliament finally agreed to pay for them.

[cro_pwr]

 

However: Admiral Graf Spee has a cruiser icon so you can use her for cruiser missions. For example the current mission row in which you need to dish out 50k dmg to cruisers and 3 citadel hits. Or several more of the current campaigns (hit citadels, destroy secondary mounts etc)

 

edit: I agree though that Scharnhorst will probably be superior in every way possible.

 

Well, honestly if you want a premium German cruiser to use for missions and campaigns, then I think Prinz Eugen would be better, since a lot of missions / campaigns require t8 ships, and Eugene fills that role.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind Graf Spee in my port at all I actually like the idea behind the ship, and the unique aspect it has (historic and ingame), but as usual, when he makes videos about premiums he is quite blunt / honest about them. And if you have lets say 30€ (too lazy to check the prices in the shop), and you want a German premium for captain training and creds farming, then Shiny is simply a better investment for your money. Heck, Shiny is probably one of the best premiums there is in the game atm, so its quite hard to compete with her

[deadly_if_swallowed]

I'd love to get a Prinz Eugen but she does not offer enough uniqueness. If she got a heal or anything else special to her (except premium camo), I'd immediately add her to my collection. But until then, Admiral Hipper will do just fine. I can use Tirpitz and Scharnhorst for captain training as they share some common traits with heavy cruisers.

 

Admiral Graf Spee, however, seems very unique. So I will definitely consider buying her. 

[praetor_jax]

Original parliamentary debates classified these warships as either PANZER KREUZERS , PANZERSCHIFFE & POCKET BATTLESHIPS, depending on who was debating and what angle they should sell the program. [iE Vs old WW-I battleships, or modern cruiser squadrons etc] . PANZERSCHIFFE was the classification when Parliament finally agreed to pay for them.

 

Care to share a source for that?

It was never considered to call them "pocket battleships".

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

During the early period of getting the green light on the first. Strict instructions went out to make sure nobody ever referred to them as either cruisers or battleships. The political sensitivity around them at the time was immense.

[praetor_jax]

During the early period of getting the green light on the first. Strict instructions went out to make sure nobody ever referred to them as either cruisers or battleships. The political sensitivity around them at the time was immense.

 

Which is exactly why they were called Panzerkreuzer/Panzerschiff in development and later temporarily classified as Panzerschiff, because that was exactly what the treaty allowed them to build - an armored ship.

 

"Pocket battleship" was a nickname that the press and foreign observers gave them.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

"Pocket battleship" was a nickname that the press and foreign observers gave them.

 

As well as a propaganda term used by Churchill and others to make them seem more dangerous to the public eye. When the Graf Spee was found sunk in Montevideo he went on the air and announced that 'the pocket battleship, Graf Spee...' etc. it was a needed morale boost at the time as the RN had already at this point lost a real battleship to the Germans for what had until then been no returns.

[psl_58]

 

Care to share a source for that?

It was never considered to call them "pocket battleships".

 

"The Path to Blitzkrieg"  Robert Citino.....I quoted some of the text @  post # 4

 

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/66359-lets-talk-new-ship-%c2%a4%c2%a4-graf-spee-%c2%a4%c2%a4-t6-cruiser/page__pid__1422827#entry1422827

 

 

 

 

[SmartassNoob]

So... considering the price, is this the best ship in the game now? https://eu.wargaming.net/shop/wows/main/5436/

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

So... considering the price, is this the best ship in the game now? https://eu.wargaming.net/shop/wows/main/5436/

 

​Not if your daft enough to buy it right now. Why buy it when there is a campaign running which, when completed, will give you it for free. May as well try and get it for free. If towards the end of the campaign you are not close enough to complete it, then fare enough, buy it. But I wouldn't buy it straight away.

[SmartassNoob]

I just saw one! (So someone did actually pay!) It was on the map called "two brothers" (I think) and it only had 1 Colorado supporting it. I was in a New Mexico. I was in range to shoot at it a couple of times, but both times it just escaped behind islands. Anyway, he was immediately chased by nearly a third of our team. I was too slow for that, but I capped 2 areas and managed 4 citadel hits and 3 kills and we won, so I can't complain.

 

EDIT 1:

 

I've seen 5 or 6 of them already, so it's much more popular than expected. I also got to shoot at one with a Nagato. I hot it about 10 times, but no citadel hits. I dodged 10 torps in that battle and I'm pretty sure at least 8 came from him. I got blown up a few seconds short of being able to fire the final necessary shots at it.

 

EDIT 2:

 

+2 to the list of spotted Spees. This time I managed to do a little over 17000 damage to one in a 6 hit salvo from a New Mexico.

[SmartassNoob]

Bump!

 

Does anyone know what this ships "unique camouflage" does? Does it just look pretty, or is there any effect?

 

EDIT:

 

Apparently it boosts XP and has the dispersion downgrade for the enemy.