Invisible DD?

[Knight_O_Mare]

What the hell is this. I have just not long reached the NC on the US ship line. and I've just had a game where I was spending the entire thing avoiding  a jap DD that was laying torp walls from 7km away completely invisible.  At about 6.5km he became visible. Its was ridiculous we beat them  having 2 bb 2 ca and  cv left to them having 2 dd and 1 cv yet their DD just torped us from 7.5km away killing all our ships. We couldn't do anything but fire at the splash where he launched torps.  It was clear with no smoke use what so ever. so we went from a game we clearly won outplaying all their bb/ca/cv to lose.

Worse he would lay torp walls that were like 8 torps on wide and just 1 of his torps would do 1/4 health damage. The poor bayern he went after once he sunk me stood even less chance.

They said it was because he was a 16p captain but what ever that is i can not believe this is functioning as intended. It's pure exploitative.

 

Like a knife fight with a invisible guy and you can only see the knife as it is thrust towards you. 

[MaxxyNL]

Another DDs are OP/invisible/stealthy thread... 

 

That is why i like my Kamikaze R + 18p Captain (and IJN DDs in general), spreading torps of death without ever being spotted. 

[Mayv]

How did you reach tier 8 and only notice this now?

[Egoleter]

No spotting planes on your BBs?

Why didn't your CV use it's planes to spot the DD?

Why not chase him down? If you change your speed and heading every now and then isntead of lazily sailing straight ahead his torps are mostly harmless.

 

There are so many options for you to win this scenario. You just have make use of them. The DD only has its stealth to keep him alive.

[LazyInsight]

In other words torpedo boat destroyer countered battleships? Well that design is intended. That enemy destroyer could be completely countered by any destroyer on your team, aircraft carrier (spotting DD and torpedoes) and radar cruiser. Softer counters would be any other cruisers or German tier 8+ bb. Your team did not have any of those, or did not utilize them properly - well better luck next time.

[Knight_O_Mare]

another? I dont use these forums. only like my second or third visit.

This is that bad a problem for this game? How can this be played like that. I've got several lines but the NC is my highest and it's the first time i've seen that happen.

It seems broken that any ship can be invisible at 7km on a clear day. especially a destroyer that can do that much damage and dodge that well. Even our two cruisers got minced and i thought they were meant to protect versus torp destroyers. 

[tenacious_torps]

Even our two cruisers got minced and i thought they were meant to protect versus torp destroyers. 

 

 

 

They'd still have to know what they're doing. On a weekend I wouldn't count on that. Anyway neither of the high tier IJN DDs is particularly fast, so if you had a ship majority and failed to box him in whatever happened then is entirely your own teams fault. You lost because you played badly, end of story. 

[Knight_O_Mare]

ahh I see. this is one of those subjects that are greatly debated on game forums. Like cloakers and highsec ganking in EVE forums.

Well I don't play seriously enough to know the ins and outs.  But on my DD lines i just hide behind islands etc never needed invisible to play DD at lower levels.

Seems super broken that I can get my Jap DD to do this if I level it up.

 

Super broken mechanic i am guessing but forum warriors who use it will defend it bitterly. I get it.

[Egoleter]

Super broken mechanic i am guessing but forum warriors who use it will defend it bitterly. I get it.

 

IMHO - That line just completly disqualified you.

 

You refuse advice and instead blame the game and the active forum users.

[LazyInsight]

How can this be played like that. I've got several lines but the NC is my highest and it's the first time i've seen that happen

 

Well it has to be played somehow, and that is what developers have chosen

 

another? I dont use these forums. only like my second or third visit.

 

Generally, topics like: Concealment/stealth, Airraft Carriers, torpedoes, smoke consumable and fire damage came up quite often on these forums, and thus the reaction of some people responding here.

 

 

It seems broken that any ship can be invisible at 7km on a clear day. especially a destroyer that can do that much damage and dodge that well

You can provide better solution, and give some concept how torpedo destroyers should be handled, and it  definitely will be discused to death in this thread. Wargaming does not really care that much for this community though. Probably better luck on RU forums.

[Knight_O_Mare]

 for a DD to be invisible at 7km is a joke plain and simple. Cna't get close to it because of torp walls. having to dedicate more than 2 bb, 2 ca and a cv's resources to killing one DD seems way unfair in a game. while you chase him with enough to counter a invisible destroyer at 7km with massive torp damage you would lose to the rest.  basically i don't have a experience of ever needing this in DD at lower levels. I can't see how it's fair for higher level DD. especially faster with better torps.

[Knight_O_Mare]

And if i recorded that game and showed it to potential WOW players I don't think they would ever try this game.  If it's that broken it would do that. It's bad.

[HyoukaYukikaze]

And if i recorded that game and showed it to potential WOW players I don't think they would ever try this game.  If it's that broken it would do that. It's bad.

 

Lol, there are many Youtube videos showing this mechanic, probably even guides on how to exploit it and counter it as well.

Ijn dds have nothing going for them at high tiers except for stealth and torps. And torps are so easy to Dodge that a lone dd is mostly useless imho.

[Nethraniel]

The concealment mechanic is not broken. Period. There are enough counter to stealth DD already.

 

And your own experience in PVP is the USN T2-T4 DDs, and that with questionable success. Maybe you should try and play some more DD first, let's say up to unlocking T9?

[LazyInsight]

 But on my DD lines i just hide behind islands etc never needed invisible to play DD at lower levels.

 

Will not work on maps with no land, like Ocean

 

I can't see how it's fair for higher level DD. especially faster with better torps.

 

It is requiered because counters to these destroyers are more capable, namely Radars, longer ranges on hydracoustic search, more capable gunboats, and larger amount of squadrons for CVs (so they can cover larger area and detect DDs easier)

 

while you chase him with enough to counter a invisible destroyer at 7km with massive torp damage you would lose to the rest

Thats why you leave the task for better suited ships, and take on the rest yourself.

[tenacious_torps]

 for a DD to be invisible at 7km is a joke plain and simple. Cna't get close to it because of torp walls. having to dedicate more than 2 bb, 2 ca and a cv's resources to killing one DD seems way unfair in a game. while you chase him with enough to counter a invisible destroyer at 7km with massive torp damage you would lose to the rest.  basically i don't have a experience of ever needing this in DD at lower levels. I can't see how it's fair for higher level DD. especially faster with better torps.

 

The torps are spotted way earlier though, while you have better speed and turning if speced correctly and consumables too. Accordingly hit rates for torps actually go way down on higher tiers. Just because neither you nor apparently anybody else on your team knew how to utilize any of that doesn't mean it's broken. To the contrary, torpedo DDs need a buff. 

[mtm78]

What the hell is this. I have just not long reached the NC on the US ship line. and I've just had a game where I was spending the entire thing avoiding  a jap DD that was laying torp walls from 7km away completely invisible.  At about 6.5km he became visible. Its was ridiculous we beat them  having 2 bb 2 ca and  cv left to them having 2 dd and 1 cv yet their DD just torped us from 7.5km away killing all our ships. We couldn't do anything but fire at the splash where he launched torps.  It was clear with no smoke use what so ever. so we went from a game we clearly won outplaying all their bb/ca/cv to lose.

Worse he would lay torp walls that were like 8 torps on wide and just 1 of his torps would do 1/4 health damage. The poor bayern he went after once he sunk me stood even less chance.

They said it was because he was a 16p captain but what ever that is i can not believe this is functioning as intended. It's pure exploitative.

 

Like a knife fight with a invisible guy and you can only see the knife as it is thrust towards you. 

 

I read the thread title and I knew: Salty BB captain rant. 

 

Still as far as pointless rants go, yours wasn't that bad, 4/10. 

 

Don't worry btw, some of the IJN DD's are going to be nerved a bit, especially Minekaze. But hey, we DD lovers still got Kamikaze and Fijin for tier 5 torp DD pleasures. Guess you should really learn to teamplay more, and stop expecting BB to go rambo against a competent DD. 

 

 

[LazyInsight]

Don't worry btw, some of the IJN DD's are going to be nerved a bit, especially Minekaze. But hey, we DD lovers still got Kamikaze and Fijin for tier 5 torp DD pleasures

 

The new IJN torpedo seal clubber will actually be at tier 6 now.

[mtm78]

 

The new IJN torpedo seal clubber will actually be at tier 6 now.

 

Meh Kamikaze keeping those good old fast torps at tier 5 with that reload is still the best I think. Will see after their out, you have to take into account the MM they get at as well. 

[lup3s]

how can you reach the North Carolina without ever having faced an IJN DD?

 

stealth is the only thing IJN DDs have left;

they're not the fastest

they don't have the best guns

they don't have the best torpedoes

 

what you described in your OP sounds like a (competent) DD-player deleting a team of noobs

and as you were able to spot him at 6.5 km, he probably didn't even have CE .. meaning he could've been even stealthier

[RenamedUser_92906789]

You had a cv..... Dd didnt use smoke.... Was your cv on crack?

[EsaTuunanen]

Super broken mechanic i am guessing but forum warriors who use it will defend it bitterly. I get it.

What is super broken compared to real ships is accuracy of gunnery.

Hitting maneuvering destroyer once from 10km would have needed something like firing 100 shells and good luck.

Yet in this game anything but worst shell trajectory ships can consistently hit destroyer from that range if knowing how to aim well.

 

And any preventive torpedo avoidance maneuvering would have completely spoiled firing solution calculations of most ships.

Preventive maneuvering because battleships didn't have onboard magician to instantly stop and fix possible flooding of citadel spaces.

Not to mention repairing speed/maneuverability degrading damage to torpedo bulges and their flooding which needed visit to drydock.

 

 

Also in game BBs are super hyper cheap compared to their real costs.

Resources used to built one battleships would have been enough to build something like handfull of cruisers... or couple dozen destroyers!

Or maybe instead of more realistic cost you would prefer cruiser and destroyer players having that many more ships/"lifes" to use during match?

[VScratch87]

@ElsaTuunanen

You are a fanatic... Now I pretend I never checked your profile and leave quietly...

 

[KaraMon]

So this weekend checklist:

 

1. Torps are bad - check

2. Crusiers are bad - check

3. MM unfair - check

4. weekend warriors ruin the game - check

5. DD OP - check

6. CV OP - writing in progress

7. Fires OP - in queue for posting

 

did i forgot about any other "i must create new topic every week about ....."

[Solo_Wing_Potato]

Agree with what Esa says, if a DD's concealment isn't that low then they would be a very easy target for anything within 12km.  Any torp launches would be easily avaoidable and the class would mostly be ineffective (torp DD's).

The issue really comes down to how your team played, as has already been mentioned the cv should have spotted those DD's for the rest of his team, I'm kind of surprised that he didn't.