Bogue - Why does the 2 fighter setup even exist?

[ColdHeat]

I just had another game in my Zuiho 1vs1 against a Bogue since Wargaming just seems to love to preferably pair Japanese against US and vice versa. And while I enjoy playing the Bogue for myself for what I regard obvious reasons I can't help but wonder why the 2 Fighter Squadron layout for the Bogue even exists. If you pick it you basically intend to ruin the game for the enemy carrier without anything he could do against it via sacrificing your own game for it. Everybody just loses. 

 

It's not like the japanese carrier wouldn't have a hard enough time with his inferior zeros being practically rendered useless even against a Bogue with the stock 1 Fighter 1 Torps layout (which I regard as the best and most well balanced) if the Bogue player knows what he's doing. If any Tier V carrier would have needed a two fighter squadron build it would rather have been the Zuiho yet even then I'd regard it as a waste. All you can hope for when you actually want to use your zeroes is to hope that the enemy will pick the no fighter setup for the bogue. Otherwise you're just constantly on the run with them. The existance of 2 US fighter squadrons just turns what should be a challenging game into pure absurdity.

 

 

[dasCKD]

Because the devs don't play their own game or read the recommendations from their players unless said player is a battleship player with a sub 40% win rate.

[Nechrom]

The old griefing setup.

Grief yourself and the enemy. Much fun.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

its always frustrating face bogue with 2x fighters lol, rip planes then , best way lure them to ships with good aa

[ColonelPete]

... best way lure them to ships with good aa

 

This.

If your team stays together, you can win this fight.

[Smeggo]

Or leave the match. Will not change the outcome. 

 

[_ramrus_]

As plane combat goes, plane kills are now rewarded, so I would not say he is sacrificing his own game, as most Bogue AS players use auto attacks. In 2v2 situation he can make quite a profit if he plays well.

Best time to attack those players ( 1v1 ) is when they try to setup their dive bomber strike, from my experience as Bogue captain.

 

As for why setup exists... to make it easier for battleships.

[Namolis]

 

As for why setup exists... to make it easier for battleships.

 

You shouldn't even have to write that, it's always the battleship's fault, right?

[warspite666]

I do not view the bogue 2 fighter set up as griefing, rather it is the ultimate hero set up. This is for players who are willing to forgo outright sick damage and instead focus on defending his fellow team mates, scouting enemy dds and generally being supportive and helpful, which is how a good cv should be.

[El2aZeR]

As plane combat goes, plane kills are now rewarded

 

No, it isn't. The increased reward for shooting down planes was pretty much immediately canceled out by the economy rework.

 

Case and point:

 

That's 53 planes shot down on T9 with a (for me) average amount of damage done, over 100k scouting damage and I still lost credits. Granted, I'm using premium consumables, but if I had just done one of the three things I doubt I'd be able to keep positive income even with standard consumables.

A CV nowadays is expected to scout, shoot down planes and do a large amount of damage. Fail at just one of these and you essentially have failed as a CV player. 

With a US fighter/standard loadout, you automatically fail at doing large amounts of damage at high tiers.

 

The only thing that allows AS Bogue to make profit is their own low maintenance cost, nothing else. 1/1/0 Bogue will easily outperform AS Bogue in credit earning even on a loss. Also, since AS Bogues are usually captained by newer players (since experienced ones looking to sealclub usually know that 1/1/0 is the more superior setup by far) it is often hilariously easy to outplay them, thus making them utterly useless.

 

I do not view the bogue 2 fighter set up as griefing, rather it is the ultimate hero set up. This is for players who are willing to forgo outright sick damage and instead focus on defending his fellow team mates, scouting enemy dds and generally being supportive and helpful, which is how a good cv should be.

 

Too bad that isn't rewarded nor does it have a large amount of impact on the game.

[allufewig]

I do not view the bogue 2 fighter set up as griefing, rather it is the ultimate hero set up. This is for players who are willing to forgo outright sick damage and instead focus on defending his fellow team mates, scouting enemy dds and generally being supportive and helpful, which is how a good cv should be.

 

 

Just that this setup is not supportive and helpful but plain useless. It helps your team lose the game more than it does anything else.

[Zathras_Grimm]

I just had another game in my Zuiho 1vs1 against a Bogue since Wargaming just seems to love to preferably pair Japanese against US and vice versa. And while I enjoy playing the Bogue for myself for what I regard obvious reasons I can't help but wonder why the 2 Fighter Squadron layout for the Bogue even exists. If you pick it you basically intend to ruin the game for the enemy carrier without anything he could do against it via sacrificing your own game for it. Everybody just loses.

 

It's not like the japanese carrier wouldn't have a hard enough time with his inferior zeros being practically rendered useless even against a Bogue with the stock 1 Fighter 1 Torps layout (which I regard as the best and most well balanced) if the Bogue player knows what he's doing. If any Tier V carrier would have needed a two fighter squadron build it would rather have been the Zuiho yet even then I'd regard it as a waste. All you can hope for to make when you actually want to use your zeroes is to hope that the enemy will pick the no fighter setup for the bogue. Otherwise you're just constantly on the run with them. The existance of 2 US fighter squadrons just turns what should be a challenging game into pure absurdity.

 

 

 

I find the CV with better fighters completely negates the other CV planes then highlights DDs and low spot Cruisers. It in effect counters the enemy CV, DDs and assists early spotting on Cruisers for his own BBs.

 

Sounds pretty good to me.

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

 

For quite some time I didn't have any T5 aircraft carriers in port. Fighting 2 0 1 Bogues was just too frustrating as far as I could remember. Recently I rediscovered the Zuiho and really enjoy it. T5 CV players aren't really experienced, which makes it easy to beat their superior fighters. Strafing, baiting, AA ... use your knowledge about this stuff to your advantage and outplay them. Dominating a fighter Bogue in your Zuiho is really really satisfying, so keep your head up

 

PS: If you still struggle, you might wanna take a Texas with you, until your get the hang of it. Gives you a safe spot to retreat to, when everything else fails.

 

[Hedgehog1963]

I just had another game in my Zuiho 1vs1 against a Bogue since Wargaming just seems to love to preferably pair Japanese against US and vice versa. And while I enjoy playing the Bogue for myself for what I regard obvious reasons I can't help but wonder why the 2 Fighter Squadron layout for the Bogue even exists. If you pick it you basically intend to ruin the game for the enemy carrier without anything he could do against it via sacrificing your own game for it. Everybody just loses. 

 

This is a ridiculous post.  If I can kill all your 'planes with my Bogue I'm helping my team by protecting them from your planes.  Once I have total air superiority I can spot the entire enemy fleet at will.

 

As for it "ruining" the game for the other CV player on the other team.... well beating you is what the Bogue is doing.

[ASharpPencil]

Since I am 1 of the seal cluber in the ship (got 900+ games in her) I can say that stock is the best setup. 

CV with 2 fighter setup up I kill at easy... If I find 2 of them, its a bit harder. 

But yes, I consider players that use AS weak players. 

Even with 1 fighter unit I average 22 air kills a round. 

 

I use here to train US CV captin for 5 point skill.  So I got every CV up to T10 with good captin. 

[NoirLotus]

I do not view the bogue 2 fighter set up as griefing, rather it is the ultimate hero set up. This is for players who are willing to forgo outright sick damage and instead focus on defending his fellow team mates, scouting enemy dds and generally being supportive and helpful, which is how a good cv should be.

 

No !!

 

Bogue fighter setup is a shame !!! T5 CV have very small reserve, they are not fitted to play an attrition game between CVs.

 

Moreover, why does Bogue is allowed 2 enhanced setups when Zuiho only has 1 ?

[Syrchalis]

I do not view the bogue 2 fighter set up as griefing, rather it is the ultimate hero set up. This is for players who are willing to forgo outright sick damage and instead focus on defending his fellow team mates, scouting enemy dds and generally being supportive and helpful, which is how a good cv should be.

 

What a typical BB player answer. Hurr durr I may do 100k damage per battle, but beware if any other class does even half of that! All other classes are there to support me, the mighty BB. CV that supports? Good dog! AS setups are ultimate moron setups because they are deceptively doing nothing.

 

People just don't get this concept. It doesn't matter how much damage the AS CV prevents, as long as in the end he deals less damage than the enemy CV he is worth less. And an AS bogue deals pretty much no damage at all. So if a Zuiho hits just one torpedo attack, good bye contribution, you just lost your game.

 

Of course every BB noob likes to see AS setups, because it limits the damage of both CVs considerably, except if the strike one is really good. It is like a DD game with just US DDs with 4km torps.

[RobS80]

I quite favour the strike Bogue, and have never lost a game to an AA setup Bogue. They can shoot down more planes than I can, but If i can get in and delete a couple of BB's, then their team cant recover from that and his damage wont be any where near as high, nor can he remove ships as easily.

[StringWitch]

I do not view the bogue 2 fighter set up as griefing, rather it is the ultimate hero set up. This is for players who are willing to forgo outright sick damage and instead focus on defending his fellow team mates, scouting enemy dds and generally being supportive and helpful, which is how a good cv should be.

 

You can scout and stuff with unladen strike planes too, like drop on a DD and then continue to spot them. They don't have to return to the CV immediately, though they are more easily compelled to leave their AO than fighters.

[kidd18]

 

This is a ridiculous post.  If I can kill all your 'planes with my Bogue I'm helping my team by protecting them from your planes.  Once I have total air superiority I can spot the entire enemy fleet at will.

 

As for it "ruining" the game for the other CV player on the other team.... well beating you is what the Bogue is doing.

 

[Kann_Nix_Extreme]

 

This is a ridiculous post.  If I can kill all your 'planes with my Bogue I'm helping my team by protecting them from your planes.  Once I have total air superiority I can spot the entire enemy fleet at will.

 

As for it "ruining" the game for the other CV player on the other team.... well beating you is what the Bogue is doing.

 

The only reason your team has to be protected from planes, is that you brought them into the enemy team by playing a CV yourself. Protection is just a lame excuse. If you really want to keep your allies safe from planes, pick a BB. Chances are you won't face a CV hence you will be 100% safe from planes. I refuse to believe you can achieve that level of protection with a Bogue. Problem solved eh? 

[RobS80]

 

This is a ridiculous post.  If I can kill all your 'planes with my Bogue I'm helping my team by protecting them from your planes.  Once I have total air superiority I can spot the entire enemy fleet at will.

 

As for it "ruining" the game for the other CV player on the other team.... well beating you is what the Bogue is doing.

 

Your 54% win rate and 10k average damage in Bogue tells me that isn't going too well for you.

[dasCKD]

I do not view the bogue 2 fighter set up as griefing, rather it is the ultimate hero set up. This is for players who are willing to forgo outright sick damage and instead focus on defending his fellow team mates, scouting enemy dds and generally being supportive and helpful, which is how a good cv should be.

 

Which is exactly why the Bogue, with nearly double the plane kill per game as the Zuiho, has a significantly higher win rate than the Zuiho by gaining air supremacy and spotting the enemy ships.

find the CV with better fighters completely negates the other CV planes then highlights DDs and low spot Cruisers. It in effect counters the enemy CV, DDs and assists early spotting on Cruisers for his own BBs.

Sounds pretty good to me.

 

Shokakus laugh at AS Lexingtons as they try to futilely stop the air attacks that rip their team apart destroyer by destroyer. It's been a while since I had a Zuiho, but I can't image it'll be that different especially since Bogues are far less capable of dealing damage than the 500kg bombs on the Lexington. They also kill destroyers and battleships instead of spotting them, reducing the numbers of enemy ships that they have to deal with. AS prevents damage from 1 or maybe 2 enemy ships at the very best (something that it WILL fail to do as can be seen by the average win rates between the Bogue and Zuiho) whilst a strike carrier will protect their team from the damage of every single ship that they sink or send running to the back of the map.

This is a ridiculous post.  If I can kill all your 'planes with my Bogue I'm helping my team by protecting them from your planes.  Once I have total air superiority I can spot the entire enemy fleet at will.

 

As for it "ruining" the game for the other CV player on the other team.... well beating you is what the Bogue is doing.

 

Inflicting an enemy carrier on your team just so you can futilely attempt to kill their planes is not protecting. You can kill ALL of my planes by the end of the match if you want, but if I'm still able to do damage then the protection was utterly useless.

[Hedgehog1963]

 

 

 

Inflicting an enemy carrier on your team just so you can futilely attempt to kill their planes is not protecting. You can kill ALL of my planes by the end of the match if you want, but if I'm still able to do damage then the protection was utterly useless.

 

Experience tells me otherwise.

 

Edit.  I'm prepared to bow to other more experienced CAGs than me

[Hedgehog1963]

 

Your 54% win rate and 10k average damage in Bogue tells me that isn't going too well for you.

Certainly haven't sunk many enemy ships; the DBs aren't good.  But I'll take a 54% WR over  my global WR which was at the time about 48%.