Something needs to be done about BBs.

[Tanaka_15]

DDs does not counter BBs anymore. New ijn dds are mostly guns, so no direct enemy for BBs, KM dds, well we will see i think this will be much better RN crusers (no citadels, better smoke) so still not a direct enemy for bbs. 

[Fino_93]

Cmon guys, why all this pointless topics.

BB nerf is coming in a form of IJN/KM DD lines.

 

 

Can't speak for KM DDs but IJN new one in t8/10 will be less efficient than now, while t9 will be a little better than now (aka: a little less crap), so i have some doubt about them solving the BB problem.

 

 

Btw i repeat myself: BB must be countered with more efficence by their counter, if they committing the error or not -being enscorted by cruisers and/or destroyer they should perish by torp boat o planes as quicly as a cruiser that show broadside to an enemy BB, you could simply nerf BB AA and turning ability making them more vulnerable to their threat or (if you don't wanna nerf them) give ijn their old torps and buff planes, plus give to every cruiser that have hydro and AA consumables two separate slot so they canbe an AA enscort and DD Hunter in the same time.

[FooFaFie]

 

I love my new Takao. It's cristal clear to me ALL ships should have 'repair party'.

 

Yesterday I was in my Mogami. Firing at a Bismark. He/She wasn't looking at me and was fighting another BB. The Bismark killed my friend. But with my salvos i still got him to arround 5000 life points. A few salvos left for my kill (let's say 3 good salvos). Of course he turned my way hit his repair. I had to turn my ship for angeling.. He shoots one time. 1 hit. +/- 80% of my life gone His/Her life got back up to above 10,000. In my yes the table was completly turned because of his/her 'repair party'.

 

Why does a BB have a do-over and the weaker ship, a cruiser, can get a "it's your fault" in return? Wasn't he /she in fault staying between 2 ships firing at him/her? I see no reason why that BB has that option but other ships haven't that ability. 

 

[Capra76]

 BBs being able to kill Cruisers in one salvo is fine IF the Cruiser players screws up and shows the BB his citadel. 

 

Playing devils advocate for a moment, why?

 

No other class faces instant annihilation if they make a small mistake, why should it be a unique feature for cruisers?

[ilhilh]

 

Let me clarify then.

 

I do not think that CVs don't get played because BBs can do the role of CVs better, i think CVs are not played any more because the increasing versatility of BBs made them completely lose their role in the game, combined with the other problems (that you listed) it really is not surprising CVs are dieing out. As i already stated we have three BB lines in the game now and two of them can perfectly well defend themselves from air attacks without the need for support by Cruisers or fighters. This also eliminates one of the main threats to BBs as well as one of the jobs of Cruisers (providing AA support). CVs simply do not have anyone to attack any more. US and German BBs swat their planes out of the sky and the German ones can perfectly well dodge their attacks as well due to the increased speed and agility, Cruisers swat their planes out of the sky and dodge their attacks, DDs just dodge their attacks with ease. There is simply nothing CVs can at this point effectively attack aside from IJN BBs and the occasional enemy CV. And all that for little reward (CV economy as you mentioned yourself). Regardless of how you look at it, this insane AA on BBs HAVE to go if CVs are ever to be a viable ship class again.

 

This is rubbish.  Top to bottom rubbish.

 

Let's start with a CV's role:

1. Primary: deal massive alpha strikes, and deal them at any point on the map.
2. Secondary: protect your allies
3. Secondary: spot enemies.

 

Now, I really hope we can take AS loadouts and kick them the hell out of this discussion.  They don't work.  Even if you want to make the argument that a CV's primary role isn't alpha damage and the huge match-altering effect it has, an AS CV removes 1) almost completely and then it is unable to do both 2) and 3) at the same time to a standard that compensates for doing no damage:

• If you focus on protecting your allies then when the enemy CV is reloading... so are you and spotting goes out of the window.
• If you focus on spotting, the enemy CV can just avoid your fighters and gets that match-winning damage in.

On top of that, a semi competent CV captain will, with relative ease be able to get around your fighters and do the damage even if your sole purpose is preventing that.  The above is mainly me thinking about USN CVs but I can wade in on the half-way-house IJN AS setups if you insist.

 

Non-AS CVs can be devastating with damage and do limited spotting/protecting but the primary role of their fighters is protecting their strike squadrons, and then team mates is a distant second.  Incidentally, this is something many players fail to understand when they are asking "why you no cover me CV?".

 

Ok, let's move on.  Now, we have established what CVs are supposed to do we can ask the question "can they fulfil their role still?"

 

Yes.

 

If you don't believe me, look at my stats.  I am yet to find a CV that cannot perform.  Some, like the Bogue are pretty lacklustre, but every CV I have played I have been able to be an asset to my team.  I haven't got to tier 10 in CVs yet but given what I can do in my Taiho in tier 10 games I have no fear about the Hakuryu.  For completeness I should state that I have played tiers 4,7,8 and 9 against German BBs but I feel this is a broad enough range to have gotten a reasonable picture.

 

Can many BBs sail around on their own safe from CVs?  No.  And more No.  How do I know this?  Because, I bloody well sink them day in day out. A couple of recent examples:

• This morning I figured I would try low tiers again.  In my tier IV Hosho, with a newish captain (maybe 6-8 points) I went after a full health tier V Konig.  He killed 2 TBs on the way in and 1 on the way out.  6 torps in the water. 4 hits.  And that is on a BB a tier higher.  I feel like he could come out of that feeling CVs are OP...
• Yesterday in my Taiho I took out an Iowa on his own.  He had lost perhaps 1/4 health and was barely moving.  I lost I think 4 planes on the run in but hit with 7 torps (from 12).  And that is one of the few BBs I would label as an AA fortress (see below).

 

People are obsessed with the idea that the German AA is OP, and it does force you to not be lazy, but they are juicy targets just the same.  And it is rare that anyone specs them AA because most go for secondaries or a secondary/CE hybrid.  I feel like some people would only accept German BB AA if it was at IJN levels, but the reality is that it is somewhere between IJN and USN.

 

People need to stop propagating this myth that German BBs are unassailable because they are not.  Hell, in the USN line only the NCal, Iowa and Montana (oh and Texas!) can be prickly targets on their own (although again, they need to spec for it to really feel safer) but the others can be classified as just strong.

 

My final 'people need to stop...' statement is to say that people need to stop saying that CVs don't have anything to attack, and this is because, as I stated at the top, it is complete rubbish.  I mentioned in my previous post there are issues with CVs such as the economy (high tiers), the learning curve and UI, but these are issues that affect people's desire to play them, not their ability to do their job and they are not a consequence of increased AA.

 

I will concede that AS CVs are broken and this may turn some people away from CVs, but that has nothing to do with the proliferation of AA either.

 

[tajj7]

I'd say reduce the citadel damage cruisers take and completely remove the ability to citadel through the front or stern or heavily angled like we have now.

 

Too easy and too rng for BBs to take all or most of cruisers HP and they have way less HP to start with and most have no heals.

 

Broadsides to a BB fine, but through the front nope. and not that amount of damage. 

 

That or give cruisers more HP and heals across the board. 

[ilhilh]

 

Playing devils advocate for a moment, why?

 

No other class faces instant annihilation if they make a small mistake, why should it be a unique feature for cruisers?

 

You mean like a DD starting to reverse only to find that they have just got enough speed up to prevent them from stopping when torps appear a second later?

 

It can even happen to BBs who turns to angle against a BB only to see a shima torp wall appear when he is locked into full turn.  Admittedly, not very often  and it has to be a serious torp spread to spell death... but we are playing devils advocate right?

[ilhilh]

I'd say reduce the citadel damage cruisers take and completely remove the ability to citadel through the front or stern or heavily angled like we have now.

 

Too easy and too rng for BBs to take all or most of cruisers HP and they have way less HP to start with and most have no heals.

 

Broadsides to a BB fine, but through the front nope. and not that amount of damage. 

 

That or give cruisers more HP and heals across the board. 

 

If  they do that is it ok that BBs can get citadelled through the nose?

 

#devilsadvocate

[Capra76]

 

You mean like a DD starting to reverse only to find that they have just got enough speed up to prevent them from stopping when torps appear a second later?

 

It can even happen to BBs who turns to angle against a BB only to see a shima torp wall appear when he is locked into full turn.  Admittedly, not very often  and it has to be a serious torp spread to spell death... but we are playing devils advocate right?

 

Which is the key point, BB/DD suffer this kind of damage rarely, CA suffer it frequently.

[IceyJones]

 

This is rubbish.  Top to bottom rubbish.

 

Let's start with a CV's role:

1. Primary: deal massive alpha strikes, and deal them at any point on the map.
2. Secondary: protect your allies
3. Secondary: spot enemies.

 

Now, I really hope we can take AS loadouts and kick them the hell out of this discussion.  They don't work.  Even if you want to make the argument that a CV's primary role isn't alpha damage and the huge match-altering effect it has, an AS CV removes 1) almost completely and then it is unable to do both 2) and 3) at the same time to a standard that compensates for doing no damage:

• If you focus on protecting your allies then when the enemy CV is reloading... so are you and spotting goes out of the window.
• If you focus on spotting, the enemy CV can just avoid your fighters and gets that match-winning damage in.

On top of that, a semi competent CV captain will, with relative ease be able to get around your fighters and do the damage even if your sole purpose is preventing that.  The above is mainly me thinking about USN CVs but I can wade in on the half-way-house IJN AS setups if you insist.

 

Non-AS CVs can be devastating with damage and do limited spotting/protecting but the primary role of their fighters is protecting their strike squadrons, and then team mates is a distant second.  Incidentally, this is something many players fail to understand when they are asking "why you no cover me CV?".

 

Ok, let's move on.  Now, we have established what CVs are supposed to do we can ask the question "can they fulfil their role still?"

 

Yes.

 

If you don't believe me, look at my stats.  I am yet to find a CV that cannot perform.  Some, like the Bogue are pretty lacklustre, but every CV I have played I have been able to be an asset to my team.  I haven't got to tier 10 in CVs yet but given what I can do in my Taiho in tier 10 games I have no fear about the Hakuryu.  For completeness I should state that I have played tiers 4,7,8 and 9 against German BBs but I feel this is a broad enough range to have gotten a reasonable picture.

 

Can many BBs sail around on their own safe from CVs?  No.  And more No.  How do I know this?  Because, I bloody well sink them day in day out. A couple of recent examples:

 

 

thanks for this post!

had a "funny" discussion with this guys in another tread about AA and the capabilities of CVs and got named things for telling the truth, with the arguments, that i cannot judge CVs performance because i dont play them......

well....

 

you play them, and in principle you tell them the same as i did........thx

 

 

[tajj7]

 

If  they do that is it ok that BBs can get citadelled through the nose?

 

#devilsadvocate

 

How often does that actually happen? Not very often from what I've seen, maybe things like the Dunkerque etc.? Which are more battle cruisers.

 

Maybe remove the mechanic of hitting citadels through bow/stern for all ships. Who is it actually helping and who is punsihing? Clearly it's punishing people trying to stop showing broadside to enemies and seems to be rewarding lucky shots. 

 

But BBs have way more armour, repair and HP, they can absorb citadels and still have a good game. 

 

When you have 60-70k HP losing 20 - 30k in a couple of hits hurts, but it's not the end of the world. Keep well angled not show broadside it's very unlikely you'll get citadelled easily again. 

 

When you only have 30-40k HP in the first place, and it happens way more regularly, its seems an overly punshing mechanic to me.

 

Like many have said, playing Cruisers is a lot more about trying to survive and not get deleted than it is actually playing the game and Cruiser aggressiveness gets very easily punished even if the cruiser player is not actually making a mistake, it's often punished as well by very passive BB players who are camping and sniping from the back but get rewarded for that sort of play.

 

Should a cruiser playing the game, trying to do stuff for his team get deleted and have his game ended/crippled because some BB player scared of getting a scratch got a lucky shot?

 

What sort of gameplay is that encouraging? The wrong sort IMO.

 

There was an example in another thread where a BB playing badly still beat two cruisers playing well, that is a joke IMO, the Cruiser/BB relationship is off at the moment IMO.  

 

I mean one of the best cruisers, the Zao is so good because it can reliably spam HE from long range often undetected, it's so good because it can basically attack Bbs without ever being shot back, other cruisers are relying on islands and smoke, I just think this shows that overall cruisers are just too squishy and this is encouraging a meta of hiding basically.  

[Gorenor]

 

Playing devils advocate for a moment, why?

 

No other class faces instant annihilation if they make a small mistake, why should it be a unique feature for cruisers?

 

Why DD cannot die in one salvo from a cruiser ?

[ilhilh]

 

How often does that actually happen? Not very often from what I've seen, maybe things like the Dunkerque etc.? Which are more battle cruisers.

 

Maybe remove the mechanic of hitting citadels through bow/stern for all ships. Who is it actually helping and who is punsihing? Clearly it's punishing people trying to stop showing broadside to enemies and seems to be rewarding lucky shots. 

 

But BBs have way more armour, repair and HP, they can absorb citadels and still have a good game. 

 

When you have 60-70k HP losing 20 - 30k in a couple of hits hurts, but it's not the end of the world. Keep well angled not show broadside it's very unlikely you'll get citadelled easily again. 

 

When you only have 30-40k HP in the first place, and it happens way more regularly, its seems an overly punshing mechanic to me.

 

Like many have said, playing Cruisers is a lot more about trying to survive and not get deleted than it is actually playing the game and Cruiser aggressiveness gets very easily punished even if the cruiser player is not actually making a mistake, it's often punished as well by very passive BB players who are camping and sniping from the back but get rewarded for that sort of play.

 

Should a cruiser playing the game, trying to do stuff for his team get deleted and have his game ended/crippled because some BB player scared of getting a scratch got a lucky shot?

 

What sort of gameplay is that encouraging? The wrong sort IMO.

 

There was an example in another thread where a BB playing badly still beat two cruisers playing well, that is a joke IMO, the Cruiser/BB relationship is off at the moment IMO.  

 

I mean one of the best cruisers, the Zao is so good because it can reliably spam HE from long range often undetected, it's so good because it can basically attack Bbs without ever being shot back, other cruisers are relying on islands and smoke, I just think this shows that overall cruisers are just too squishy and this is encouraging a meta of hiding basically.  

 

It doesn't happen often, but if you were to make it so that CAs couldn't but BBs still could then that is simply backwards.  It makes no sense.

 

Also, making it so cruisers no that they can sit bow/stern on and be relatively safe isn't promoting the right kind of play either in my opinion.

[IceyJones]

 

Why DD cannot die in one salvo from a cruiser ?

 

oh.....they can! still

 

but in times where DDs had citadels, their survivability was just too bad. only one mistake was enough and ANY ship was able to take you out with one salvo.

even only ONE shell hit.

 

but i agree, that angling in cruisers against BBs should count more! like it was in CBT.

but then also reduce the overpen-mechanic in return to punish broadsiding cruisers more and dont carry them with lucky overpens only

 

 

[t0ffik1]

Oh well... another cruiser noob whining thread as he is to stupid to change his direction when bb fires (and is to stupid to keep his distance over 13km)... seriously dear OP learn to shoot with your cruisers as your tier 8 cruiser has avg dmg of my tier 3 !! and learn to NOT AFK YACHT, then you wont have problems in suriviving and raping a bb in 1 on 1 as your fire dmg (doesnt rly matter when you hit the bb) does around 20% of its total HP (and you will score way more fires then he citadels or pens on you).

The only trick is to HAVE A BRAIN and sometimes USE WSAD buttons...

[Viktor_Lima]

Maybe creating the German BB line as rapid fire, low pen AP ships wasn't healthy for the cruiser meta? These ships are survivable, popular and fill every match. Their natural prey are cruisers, as their pen power does not reach IJN or USN levels. Designing the entire most popular BB line as cruiser killers is what is causing this (and that was originally a flaw in the Tirpitz design decision, which carried over systematically to the entire line).

 

Historically the British would have shot faster, while the Germans were more accurate. A gimicky decision made for Tirpitz has now led to absurd constructs like a secondary spamming, rapid fire,  low precision Bismarck. Ok, I'm fine with playing it, but it has nothing to do with original concepts or historic trade offs and incidentally CAs are getting shafted because of it.

 

And did I mention they specifically upped the ante with Scharnhorst spamming 28cm shells all over the CAs in the mid tiers. At the same time too high BB population in the high tiers sucks every T8 cruiser into T9/10 matches as filler material besides the Yamatos, GKs and Montanas.

[SovietFury43]

 

This is rubbish.  Top to bottom rubbish.

 

Let's start with a CV's role:

1. Primary: deal massive alpha strikes, and deal them at any point on the map.
2. Secondary: protect your allies
3. Secondary: spot enemies.

 

Now, I really hope we can take AS loadouts and kick them the hell out of this discussion.  They don't work.  Even if you want to make the argument that a CV's primary role isn't alpha damage and the huge match-altering effect it has, an AS CV removes 1) almost completely and then it is unable to do both 2) and 3) at the same time to a standard that compensates for doing no damage:

• If you focus on protecting your allies then when the enemy CV is reloading... so are you and spotting goes out of the window.
• If you focus on spotting, the enemy CV can just avoid your fighters and gets that match-winning damage in.

On top of that, a semi competent CV captain will, with relative ease be able to get around your fighters and do the damage even if your sole purpose is preventing that.  The above is mainly me thinking about USN CVs but I can wade in on the half-way-house IJN AS setups if you insist.

 

Non-AS CVs can be devastating with damage and do limited spotting/protecting but the primary role of their fighters is protecting their strike squadrons, and then team mates is a distant second.  Incidentally, this is something many players fail to understand when they are asking "why you no cover me CV?".

 

Ok, let's move on.  Now, we have established what CVs are supposed to do we can ask the question "can they fulfil their role still?"

 

Yes.

 

If you don't believe me, look at my stats.  I am yet to find a CV that cannot perform.  Some, like the Bogue are pretty lacklustre, but every CV I have played I have been able to be an asset to my team.  I haven't got to tier 10 in CVs yet but given what I can do in my Taiho in tier 10 games I have no fear about the Hakuryu.  For completeness I should state that I have played tiers 4,7,8 and 9 against German BBs but I feel this is a broad enough range to have gotten a reasonable picture.

 

Can many BBs sail around on their own safe from CVs?  No.  And more No.  How do I know this?  Because, I bloody well sink them day in day out. A couple of recent examples:

• This morning I figured I would try low tiers again.  In my tier IV Hosho, with a newish captain (maybe 6-8 points) I went after a full health tier V Konig.  He killed 2 TBs on the way in and 1 on the way out.  6 torps in the water. 4 hits.  And that is on a BB a tier higher.  I feel like he could come out of that feeling CVs are OP...
• Yesterday in my Taiho I took out an Iowa on his own.  He had lost perhaps 1/4 health and was barely moving.  I lost I think 4 planes on the run in but hit with 7 torps (from 12).  And that is one of the few BBs I would label as an AA fortress (see below).

 

People are obsessed with the idea that the German AA is OP, and it does force you to not be lazy, but they are juicy targets just the same.  And it is rare that anyone specs them AA because most go for secondaries or a secondary/CE hybrid.  I feel like some people would only accept German BB AA if it was at IJN levels, but the reality is that it is somewhere between IJN and USN.

 

People need to stop propagating this myth that German BBs are unassailable because they are not.  Hell, in the USN line only the NCal, Iowa and Montana (oh and Texas!) can be prickly targets on their own (although again, they need to spec for it to really feel safer) but the others can be classified as just strong.

 

My final 'people need to stop...' statement is to say that people need to stop saying that CVs don't have anything to attack, and this is because, as I stated at the top, it is complete rubbish.  I mentioned in my previous post there are issues with CVs such as the economy (high tiers), the learning curve and UI, but these are issues that affect people's desire to play them, not their ability to do their job and they are not a consequence of increased AA.

 

I will concede that AS CVs are broken and this may turn some people away from CVs, but that has nothing to do with the proliferation of AA either.

 

 

Actually what you wrote is rubbish (although if this is a display of your intellect i am not surprised). 

 

Essentially your whole post is one massive argument from personal experience. "BB AA is fine because i can still do well in Carriers", big *censored* deal, i was pulling off unicum stats in the Atlanta when everybody was whining that it was underpowered, it doesn't mean anything. A single players personal experience is completely irrelevant, the whole community is what matters, and fact is that Carriers are hardly played any more and that the insane AA on some BBs is one of the major contributing factors. 

 

If all you have to offer against established facts is one logical fallacy after another followed by a strawman argument you don't have the authority to speak on the subject at all.

 

@IceyJones

 

If you wrote the same as him in another thread i believe that people called you names, and with good reason.

#260

 

[IceyJones]

 

@IceyJones

 

If wrote the same as him in another thread i believe that people called you names, and with good reason.

#260

 

 

you are one of the "AA too stronk" -faction

 

and on what level you argument, we see here

 (although if this is a display of your intellect i am not surprised). 

 

 

[SovietFury43]

Oh well... another cruiser noob whining thread as he is to stupid to change his direction when bb fires (and is to stupid to keep his distance over 13km)... seriously dear OP learn to shoot with your cruisers as your tier 8 cruiser has avg dmg of my tier 3 !! and learn to NOT AFK YACHT, then you wont have problems in suriviving and raping a bb in 1 on 1 as your fire dmg (doesnt rly matter when you hit the bb) does around 20% of its total HP (and you will score way more fires then he citadels or pens on you).

The only trick is to HAVE A BRAIN and sometimes USE WSAD buttons...

 

[edited]

[Zathras_Grimm]

OP please review the patch notes over the past year. The only changes acceptable to WG are those that appease the BB community.

 

I have been reliably informed that a couple of BBs got a rudder nerf at some point, but odds on that will have been due to other BB players complaining they can't hit them lol

 

Seriously though, the only way WG will buff another class is if it does not hurt BB play, or the class has been so decimated no one is playing them and the game suffers (then they will think twice).

 

After the next patch I would expect fire chance to reduce again (as BBs are being burnt to a crisp) and a direct reduction in stealth as even with spotters, fighters, CV aircraft, radar and hydro, some DDs are killing BBs still. 

[SovietFury43]

 

you are one of the "AA too stronk" -faction

 

and on what level you argument, we see here

 

 

 

And what do you expect me to say to a guy who essentially says "BB AA is fine because i can still do well in Carriers"? 

 

If he was the only one playing the game his "argument" may hold some merit, but he is not.

[ilhilh]

 

Actually what you wrote is rubbish (although if this is a display of your intellect i am not surprised). 

 

Essentially your whole post is one massive argument from personal experience. "BB AA is fine because i can still do well in Carriers", big *censored* deal, i was pulling off unicum stats in the Atlanta when everybody was whining that it was underpowered, it doesn't mean anything. A single players personal experience is completely irrelevant, the whole community is what matters, and fact is that Carriers are hardly played any more and that the insane AA on some BBs is one of the major contributing factors. 

 

If all you have to offer against established facts is one logical fallacy after another followed by a strawman argument you don't have the authority to speak on the subject at all.

 

@IceyJones

 

If wrote the same as him in another thread i believe that people called you names, and with good reason.

#260

 

 

What else should I be using? You seem to think you are an authority on CVs and yet your highest tier CV is tier 6 and a total CV winrate of 46%.   Your average damage is 8,000 per game for 41 games in your only tier 6 CV - if they balance CVs to make them work for you (and your intellect #lol) then god knows what someone with half a brain will be able to achieve.  And then you come out and tell me that I don't have the authority to speak on the subject?!?!  You are actually crazy.

 

This isn't just some magic that I am pulling off when I successfully hit these ships - I'm using the same CVs with the same planes as everyone else.  I'm playing against the same opponents as everyone else.  There are plenty of people at all tiers managing succeed at CVs - I see it happen to my KM BBs getting attacked by CVs and I see it happen to other players in my matches.  ALL. OF. THE. TIME.

 

Your whole argument is that CVs have no targets and yet when presented by someone saying that isn't true and here is some proof all you can come up with is that we should ignore that guy?  Really, really pathetic.

 

 

[Exocet6951]

 

I have been reliably informed that a couple of BBs got a rudder nerf at some point

 

That nerf was a joke.

A general buff to turn radius and rudder shift, followed by a small nerf to rudder shift does not equal a nerf.

[SovietFury43]

 

What else should I be using? You seem to think you are an authority on CVs and yet your highest tier CV is tier 6 and a total CV winrate of 46%.   Your average damage is 8,000 per game for 41 games in your only tier 6 CV - if they balance CVs to make them work for you (and your intellect #lol) then god knows what someone with half a brain will be able to achieve.  And then you come out and tell me that I don't have the authority to speak on the subject?!?!  You are actually crazy.

 

This isn't just some magic that I am pulling off when I successfully hit these ships - I'm using the same CVs with the same planes as everyone else.  I'm playing against the same opponents as everyone else.  There are plenty of people at all tiers managing succeed at CVs - I see it happen to my KM BBs getting attacked by CVs and I see it happen to other players in my matches.  ALL. OF. THE. TIME.

 

Your whole argument is that CVs have no targets and yet when presented by someone saying that isn't true and here is some proof all you can come up with is that we should ignore that guy?  Really, really pathetic.

 

 

 

What you should be using? How about this:

 

https://eu.warships.today/vehicles

 

I never said i was anything even close to an authority when it comes to CVs, i am horrible at CVs as you well saw. I called you out for basing your argument on a logical fallacy instead of facts. Understand that you being good with CVs IS IRRELEVANT because one above average player CAN NOT speak for the whole community.  

[IceyJones]

 

What you should be using? How about this:

 

https://eu.warships.today/vehicles

 

I never said i was anything even close to an authority when it comes to CVs, i am horrible at CVs as you well saw. I called you out for basing your argument on a logical fallacy instead of facts. Understand that you being good with CVs IS IRRELEVANT because one above average player CAN NOT speak for the whole community.  

 

according to the general potato player, BBs must be buffed

CAs must be immune to citadels

DDs must be able to sneak to 2km distance to drop their torps

 

shall we care about such players also?