MM & Economy and the disappointing tier 8+

[Iskarioth]

I'm a former WoT player and recently started playing WoWS. I really enjoyed palying the first few tiers so I bought prem membership to hasten the grind. This week I finally bought the Bismarck and suddenly the game is no fun at all!

 

First of all running a stock Bismarck in itself is a horrible experience, worsend by the fact that MM places me in matches where I'm at the bottom of totempole at least 50% of the time, but there are pretty much always at least a few tier X around.

Furthermore I'm (the Bismarck) apparently the most favourite snack of all times because I get attacked and focused as soon as I'm spotted and that happens so fast that I don't even have time to hide.

 

But what truly killed my fun is that I get nothing out of the battles. Just as an example:

I actually manage to survive and take only a bit of dmg while dealing 50k, then I look at the bill and can't believe my eyes: ZERO, no effin credit gain.

The next game some halfwit in a tier 10 cv sends 3x torps after me and I die within the first minute without a chance to actually move ( I was positioned right at the corner). No damage and -100k. Add to that the fact that I got lucky and have 250 DamCon II which is absolutely vital IME. SO I'm no payin extra for these or it would be even worse.

 

So here I ask? How the f*** is that supposed to work?

 

I mean I'm already running premium and pay thru my nose!

 

After this experience I've zero motivation to get a tier 9 & 10 because the mere thought of having negative balance regardless of how well I did is frustrating to no end. The current economy of WoWS is compeltely broken IMO. I won't farm just so I can play my high tiers.

 

Are the other classes at these ranks just as bad or did I just luck out because I focussed on BBs?

 

[Iskarioth]

PS: Playing at tier8+ in itself also turned out to be excedingly boring and monotonous. Endless circling, firing from the corner of the map, torpedos with infinite range and the occasional coward hiding in smoke, raining endless fire on you with no chance to retaliate.

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

Dude....you're taking out one of the most durable ships in the whole game and moaning that 50k damage doesn't get you credits? First off, 50k is below average,especially for that ship (Amagi or NC I'd forgive for as they can be tricky sometimes with that super weak side armour of theirs...but Bismarck?) What else are you doing? Capping? Leading the charge? Brawling? Spotting (when possible)? Shooting down birds? Defending the cap? If you're doing all these things, no profit sounds harsh on premium I agree. Any screenshots?

 

But still...Bismarck, dude. Try New Orleans if you want to be the favourite snack...and a damn sight weaker one at that.TBH it doesn't sound like KMS is for you if you're having this much trouble staying alive with one of the most durable ships in the game. You grinded for it, right?

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

dont have any problem play high tiers even on t10 lose u hardly lose any money maybe a bit if very bad game lol

[GeneraKrizmuz]

Your performance in the Bismarck is bad. Step up or go down a tier or two. The economy is fine

[ColonelPete]

You are a WoT veteran and really ask these questions?

[Lladdir_]

Well, first of your playing a STOCK ship. I'm not a major WoT player but i'm pretty sure that stock tanks are generally much weaker than fully upgraded tanks. So don't judge based on how it currently is.

 

 

[ghostbuster_]

I'm a former WoT player and recently started playing WoWS. I really enjoyed palying the first few tiers so I bought prem membership to hasten the grind. This week I finally bought the Bismarck and suddenly the game is no fun at all!

 

First of all running a stock Bismarck in itself is a horrible experience, worsend by the fact that MM places me in matches where I'm at the bottom of totempole at least 50% of the time, but there are pretty much always at least a few tier X around.

Furthermore I'm (the Bismarck) apparently the most favourite snack of all times because I get attacked and focused as soon as I'm spotted and that happens so fast that I don't even have time to hide.

 

But what truly killed my fun is that I get nothing out of the battles. Just as an example:

I actually manage to survive and take only a bit of dmg while dealing 50k, then I look at the bill and can't believe my eyes: ZERO, no effin credit gain.

The next game some halfwit in a tier 10 cv sends 3x torps after me and I die within the first minute without a chance to actually move ( I was positioned right at the corner). No damage and -100k. Add to that the fact that I got lucky and have 250 DamCon II which is absolutely vital IME. SO I'm no payin extra for these or it would be even worse.

 

So here I ask? How the f*** is that supposed to work?

 

I mean I'm already running premium and pay thru my nose!

 

After this experience I've zero motivation to get a tier 9 & 10 because the mere thought of having negative balance regardless of how well I did is frustrating to no end. The current economy of WoWS is compeltely broken IMO. I won't farm just so I can play my high tiers.

 

Are the other classes at these ranks just as bad or did I just luck out because I focussed on BBs?

 

50k damage with Bismarck is trash. dont expect to gain any credits with that kind of a performance.

[txtspeak]

Aha, Aha

AHAHAHAH!
"Oh I'm in the Bismarck, so everyone focuses me"
You have never experienced the utter pain and despair of sailing a New Orleans class cruiser... the INSTANT, you are spotted your [edited]is lighted up by 1000 guns

[RenamedUser_92906789]

i kinda agree. a new player would expect that premium would ensure you a positive + even if unlucky game in any tiers.

But unfortunately that does not work in WoWs T8+ ... i cant speak for WoT as i never played it.

[MrRibz]

Purchase prem camp...........that's all they want lol £££

 

Not a complaint just how it is guys

[Nechrom]

Sounds to me (and also looking at your stats) that you don't really have the experience required to be pushing into tier 8 right now.

Your level of performance isn't enough to keep up a decent income of credits at higher tiers.

 

I want to ask if you have looked at something like YouTube videos or streams of good players? Why I'm asking this is because you don't seem to have picked up a lot of good habits on your own while playing, more likely you've been picking up bad ones.

If you don't know at this point why you do so badly in the Bismarck, then I think you should really check out some more experienced players playing it or similar ships.

[Yohane1]

I agree with the majority here. If u want to make money you have to find a way to deal more damage or gain experience by capping and stuff.

Bismarck is a great ship to lead the charge.

 

Dont show ur side to often. (Even German BBs can get punishment)

Map awareness and position is key to victory

Stick with your team, dont let them stick to you.
Aim small. Miss small

 

if u keep those rules you should do fine.

GL!

[El2aZeR]

The high tier economy is indeed broken.

For CVs that is.

Enemy CV afk (= no planes to shoot down)? No income.

Game ends before the 10 minute mark? No income.

Lose a lot of planes? No income.

You do damage, scout and contribute majorly to your team's victory? Maybe a little income.

 

Really, you coming here complaining that you get no income with a mere 50k damage done in a Bismarck is like a slap in the face for every CV player who still bothers to frequent higher tiers.

[AlwaysBadLuckWithTeams]

Your hp doesn't matter when it comes to "repair cost", as there is no such thing here. You pay a flat fee for taking the ship into combat (plus ammo and consumables). Whether you make a gain or a loss depends on you. Damage, capping, scouting, tanking all give you silver. Stand back at the map border, shoot HE at max distance, and survive 20 minutes with full hp are pretty much a guarantee for losing money even with premium.

[Tungstonid]

I'd say the "problem" (everyone focuses you) with the Bismarck you are having is that she is known as a very durable and annoying ship when close enough. Close enough in this case means something around 10,6 km when she is secondary specced.

And while it is hard to land citadel hits on German BBs of tier 7+, they can be harshly damaged by normal penetrations in the superstructure while other BBs only receive overpen damage in this areas.

So all in all: famous ship + annoying properties + "don't let it come close enough" = you draw more fire than the Amagi or NC right next to you.

 

To your other points regarding the economy... Well, tier 8 is like a turning point where it becomes hard for average or below average players to make profit. Even with premium. I'd also advice you to stay a bit longer in lower tiers since, like in all MMOs, you have a learning curve to pass to be effective.

And I agree with some of the other posters: Especially CVs and also cruisers have a harder time to produce a great income.

[tenacious_torps]

I actually manage to survive and take only a bit of dmg while dealing 50k

 

The problem with that is just as much in the "take only a bit of dmg" as in the rather mediocre dmg you dealt. BBs have their big HP pool and repair ability for a reason, the economy expects you to tank. If you don't you'll find it harder and harder to make any profit the higher you go in tiers. For BBs the key abilities are aim good enough to get citadels somewhat reliably (there's always RNGeezus and dispersion) and knowing when to push and when not to. Especially true for the Bismarck, the ship is absolutely useless at larger distances.

Anyway, my suggestion for you: go back to tier 7 or maybe even 4 - not 5 or 6 though, given the current mm meta - and only go back to 8 when you feel comfortable to carry when top tier at those tiers. Frankly, in a top tier BB you should be pretty much always among the top three of your team at the end of the battle. In the process you will easily gain enough free XP to restart the learning process at tier 8 in a fully upgraded Bismarck with cash to burn. 

[manarchon]

You're not supposed to make any or very little profit in tier 8. You can make a little profit if you play good.

Tier 9 and 10 you are supposed to lose money on average cause that is how the economy is set up. That is how they force people to get premium account and ships. 

Tier 10 games are World of Torpedoes and camp sniping anyway. 

[Iskarioth]

First of all, I haven't played all taht long but I'm not a complete noob. I tend to look up any info I can get. I consulted guides and videos etc. And while I still struggle to get reliable hits with the Bismarck, I do know the basics, aka most effective range and my role in the bigger picture.

 

What I find a little silly is the notion that I just have to do "more damage". Sure 50k wasn't that much, maybe not the best example but still, it's ridicolous if you consider that I'm running premium. 60-70k of HP is the equivalent of a dead BB. If we take the average into account that means that if everyone is at the same skill level you can deal about as much damage as you can take. In conclusion that would mean if you can't score at least one kill (and I mean full health not just last hit) you will lose money. Now in my experience at least 1 /3 doesn't get a kill and some times I got 1 or 2 without dealing much damage.

 

I'd say the economy doesn't work if you don't get enough credits by simple doing a 1 to 1 ratio of damage compared to your own "worth" without premium. Especially if you also include those cases where you are completely out-classed as I described. Fighting a Montana as a Bsimark, or even worse tier 10 CVs will usually have an unpleasant outcome. The good games have to make up for the bad ones and you need some spending moeny as well. It doesn't add up. If I end up in these kinda games regularly I don't see how it's my fault when I don't make bank even with prem.

 

I had to kill 4 ships and deal something around 80k to get measly 140k credits and that doesn't even include premium consumables since I turned them off, for obvious reasons. And without them it's not exactly easier. I've learned quickly what a huge difference they make for a BB when it comes to flooding, fire etc.

 

Bottom line: it deosn't make sense to me that you have to be a high class player ranking in the top 3 every game to make some money if you also use premium. That negates the whole purpose of premium . And I don't want to start thinking about how you have to struggle without. You can say I suck all you want but from a buisness point of view this current system should drive off people in droves because quite a few of them are even worse than me, I can tell that much.

 

[manarchon]

50k is allright for average player. 20k might be shitgame even for average player. 100k is pretty nice and 150k would be very good. 

If you are a guy who does 200k or more on average a game it's not really valid to comment what game economy on average. 

The point still is. Even with premium account you are not supposed to make money on t8. You can make some if get good games (I count using 2-3 premium consumables).

But it's kinda the "you can break even with average to semi-crapperformance" - tier. And after that, even with premium account you are supposed to lose credits to further force you to get premium account and ships.

[manarchon]

 

The problem with that is just as much in the "take only a bit of dmg" as in the rather mediocre dmg you dealt. BBs have their big HP pool and repair ability for a reason, the economy expects you to tank. If you don't you'll find it harder and harder to make any profit the higher you go in tiers. For BBs the key abilities are aim good enough to get citadels somewhat reliably (there's always RNGeezus and dispersion) and knowing when to push and when not to. Especially true for the Bismarck, the ship is absolutely useless at larger distances.

Anyway, my suggestion for you: go back to tier 7 or maybe even 4 - not 5 or 6 though, given the current mm meta - and only go back to 8 when you feel comfortable to carry when top tier at those tiers. Frankly, in a top tier BB you should be pretty much always among the top three of your team at the end of the battle. In the process you will easily gain enough free XP to restart the learning process at tier 8 in a fully upgraded Bismarck with cash to burn. 

 

Yet people in these so called high tiers don't carry anything any more than people carry in tier 4. Random games are complete crapacross the board, with people mostly having zero clue of anything even in tier 10 games.

It's complete imagination to say that tier 8, 9 and 10 are "elite" games. They aren't. Same crapdifferent ships. Only difference in lower tiers you make money, in higher tiers you break even or lose.

[Iskarioth]

But I already have premium account. What kinda performance are they expecting? Statistically that would mean that only a few lucky people get to make money when playing at tier 8+ while the rest has to farm just to be able to participate?  Where's the fun in that? I admit it's been quite a while but as afar as I can remember in WoT you had to royal f*** up to be in the red when playing at tier with premium on top of it.

[manarchon]

But I already have premium account. What kinda performance are they expecting? Statistically that would mean that only a few lucky people get to make money when playing at tier 8+ while the rest has to farm just to be able to participate?  Where's the fun in that? I admit it's been quite a while but as afar as I can remember in WoT you had to royal f*** up to be in the red when playing at tier with premium on top of it.

 

With 3 premium consumables and full repair costs (about 70-80k for repairs iirc and then 68k for the consumables, you want the premium hydro on top of repair and heal on Bismarck imo) i get maybe 20k-60k on a decent game on premium account on t 8. I admit I'm pretty crap, but I try my best. For that you need to make about 200000 credits.  

If you get crapto semi-crapgame you might end up loosing credits.That's just how it works . I guess they want to milk people even more here, with having several pw2 premium ships and such.  

[Shirakami_Kon]

Like a lot of people said already, tier 8 is where the game starts to be difficult, I'd consider myself a slightly over average-good player and I can manage to have a regular income with tier 8 ships but I admit that at tier 8 you start to really need to be a good player for that. Also, for me while I'd really like to get some of those tier 10 ships, at tier 8 you can already see what the game is like in the tier 8-10 bracket so if you have problems gaining credits with premium with tier 8 ships I'd suggest that you either really accept that you need to keep playing lower tier ships to farm credits or do like I did in the end and just forget about the tier 10 ships (in my case bacause I consider the play stile of tiers 9-10 just awful) and don't bother with those tiers.

 

I really like the tier 7-8 spot though (specially tier 7 because of that MM since the poor poooor tier 4 got their kindergarten zone f*cking MM for everyone else until T7) and while at first sight there's less "big names" than in tier 10, where you have Yamatos and such there are good ships in the tiers 7 and 8 to that you can actually enjoy playing without worring too much about credits or hows the playstile of that tier, for example Nagato, upgraded Bismarck, and obviously specially if you pay (since you say you pay for premium time you could consider saving money from premium time to get one of those if you were to forget about tiers 9 and 10, where you can choose between things like Blyskawica, Atago, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, Belfast and things like that).

[Iskarioth]

I do share the sentiment that the high tier games are tedious and not nearly as much fun but I just can't bring myself to quit halfway. I want to get the Kurfürst. Still, the economy system just doesn't make sense. I easily made ~200k just now playing my tier VI cv but my Bismarck is gaining nearly no credits, adn I'm not playing too bad. Apparently you get the same credits across the board while the reapir cost skyrockets at tier 8. That's excluding pretty much everyone without premium that isn't constantly killing 4+ ships.

The premium ships on the other hand are just too expensive for my taste, and smell a lot like money grab, so I'll stay away from them.