Hipper/ Mogami Heal?

[Mik1984]

What do you think?

[FooFaFie]

I voted yes. But if it was me all ships should have heal.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

You ask me, all citadels to cruisers should do 15-20% of their health bar apiece from BB's and 10% from other sources. 

All Cruisers should get heal, every last one except tier 1's. And the heal should be capable of repairing 50% of a citadel hit. 

Combine this with a cap on BB's and the game would be somewhat more balanced, though I doubt it'd be perfect.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

I wouldn't give up the hydro on Hipper but more options are always nice

 

[Mik1984]

I wouldn't give up the hydro on Hipper but more options are always nice

 

Forcing you to give up hydro is the only way this could be a balanced choice. Choosing heal over spotter plane would be a no-brainer and would obviously be OP.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

 

Forcing you to give up hydro is the only way this could be a balanced choice. Choosing heal over spotter plane would be a no-brainer and would obviously be OP.

 

So Bismarck can have heal, plane and Hydro but Hipper, with worse performance guns, armour and secondaries can't?

[Toivia]

Given I've been using mostly Defensive AA on both mentioned ships, I find having a heal option would be great. Hydro has always felt too situational for me (and spotting torps ain't worth anything to me, I still manage to run into torps even if I know they're coming - always understeer/oversteer into them) and Defensive AA is even more situational. Not to mention Mogami's AA is garbage to begin with while Hipper does alright even without the consumable.

 

A heal would be useful in almost every battle.

[Aotearas]

Mogami needs a lot of things.

 

Just started with her and it really is a sorry picture.

 

10.5 seconds reload time for the 155mm when other ~150mm caliber guns have 7.5 seconds reload on that tier. Plus with it being tier VIII it sees tier X cruisers that have a similar rate of fire with their 203mm guns, the turrets turn slower than those of battleships and for some reason the detectability debuff when firing is tied to the hull upgrade and not the actual gun selection so if anyone actually wants to use the 155mm they have to keep using the stock hull.

 

And I'm generally in favour of cruisers getting a heal starting at tier VIII anyway, not just the Hipper and Mogami.

[Mik1984]

 

So Bismarck can have heal, plane and Hydro but Hipper, with worse performance guns, armour and secondaries can't?

 

Hipper doesn't have bad performing guns, their reload is on the better side and they have very high muzzle speed and they delete broadside cruisers, especially with the +7% accuracy mod.

 

Contrary to common opinion, Hipper is also a powerful brawler against BBs, as it has extra armor on the bow preventing front-citadels from bbs at medium and short ranges. IF it depletes its bow HP it is a very hard opponent to damage by a BB if it stays at a low angle. Furthermore it has a good supply of torpedoes and can fire them at very wide angles. Furthermore, its secondaries are devastating firestarters. They shoot 6 rounds every 3 seconds, each having a 9% fire chance.

 

Hipper is a devastating ship when it charges a BB at short range, because on top of all that, it has that extra bow armor that prevents it from being deleted by BBs unlike other CA's.

 

Unfortunately, that is not something you will have a chance to do often in a ranked battle, as the enemies are skilled enough not to allow that. On top of that, this ship is mostly a cruiser killer and it has neither radar nor smoke, which made it significantly inferior to CA's offering those in the last ranked.

 

Both Mogami and Hipper performed rather weak the last ranked season. Radar was King in a CA, and smoke second to that, and if nothing else, heal was important. Mogami's restricted torpedo angles were also a problem, Atago with its split torp tubes offered better ability for torp attack.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

 

Hipper doesn't have bad performing guns, their reload is on the better side and they have very high muzzle speed and they delete broadside cruisers, especially with the +7% accuracy mod.

 

Contrary to common opinion, Hipper is also a powerful brawler against BBs, as it has extra armor on the bow preventing front-citadels from bbs at medium and short ranges. IF it depletes its bow HP it is a very hard opponent to damage by a BB if it stays at a low angle. Furthermore it has a good supply of torpedoes and can fire them at very wide angles. Furthermore, its secondaries are devastating firestarters. They shoot 6 rounds every 3 seconds, each having a 9% fire chance.

 

Hipper is a devastating ship when it charges a BB at short range, because on top of all that, it has that extra bow armor that prevents it from being deleted by BBs unlike other CA's.

 

Unfortunately, that is not something you will have a chance to do often in a ranked battle, as the enemies are skilled enough not to allow that. On top of that, this ship is mostly a cruiser killer and it has neither radar nor smoke, which made it significantly inferior to CA's offering those in the last ranked.

 

Both Mogami and Hipper performed rather weak the last ranked season. Radar was King in a CA, and smoke second to that, and if nothing else, heal was important. Mogami's restricted torpedo angles were also a problem, Atago with its split torp tubes offered better ability for torp attack.

 

I'm well aware of her strengths and weaknesses. I played her a lot. I also never said she was bad, but that Bismarck, which is the better ship in almost all regards, got all of the consumables so there was no reason Hipper shouldn't too. Honestly I stopped playing her because she simply wasn't good enough anymore, her role has long since been supplanted by Fast Battleships. The Average damages in by comparison tell the full story here.

Edinburgh on the other hand is far more versatile. Though if Hipper had a heal I'd consider playing her again, though she would also benefit from access to the tier 9 upgrade slots. Having an extra barrel and 4-5 seconds less reload time and heal on Roon makes her almost twice as efficient as Hipper could ever hope to be. 

[Mik1984]

Roon only has a small strip of extra bow armor, Roon can be front citateled. Besides that, we all know that the VIII - IX tier CA gap is HUGE.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

Big no for this

[txtspeak]

You think that those two need it but the new orleans doesnt

you bastard.

[Comrad_StaIin]

stop using the lousy -7% disperision as an argument it barly does anything if even

[Takeda92]

And for New Orleans as well. These 3 are at the bottom of tier 8 cruisers.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

New Orleans and Chapayev have radar with decent detection range. Hipper has great hydro but much shorter range. Mogami has... uh... Yamato secondary turrets.

The ranked/competitive meta, or at least their reputation, rated NO and Chapa above Hipper and Mogami due to radar. So I do see the point in this suggestion. Heal at T8 would be an Atago (competitive favourite) asset. Not that I would give up that German hydro for any other consumable (except radar maybe, but that will never happen). In fact, I do not think Hipper needs any buff at the moment. It is just the diversity of roles these ships can perform that made me vote yes.

[Mik1984]

And for New Orleans as well. These 3 are at the bottom of tier 8 cruisers.

 

New Orleans was one of the best performing cruisers last ranked battles due to radar. It has its strengths.

[Panocek]

 

So Bismarck can have heal, plane and Hydro but Hipper, with worse performance guns, armour and secondaries can't?

Because Hipper is peasant cruiser and Bismarck is BBmasterrace

[Agantas]

Mogami needs a lot of things.

 

Just started with her and it really is a sorry picture.

 

10.5 seconds reload time for the 155mm when other ~150mm caliber guns have 7.5 seconds reload on that tier. Plus with it being tier VIII it sees tier X cruisers that have a similar rate of fire with their 203mm guns, the turrets turn slower than those of battleships and for some reason the detectability debuff when firing is tied to the hull upgrade and not the actual gun selection so if anyone actually wants to use the 155mm they have to keep using the stock hull.

 

And I'm generally in favour of cruisers getting a heal starting at tier VIII anyway, not just the Hipper and Mogami.

 

Pre-turn your turrets before you get spotted, shoot your salvos at the target in ambush-predator like manner, then drive away and go back into hiding before BBs have a chance to shoot at you. 

[Aotearas]

 

Pre-turn your turrets before you get spotted, shoot your salvos at the target in ambush-predator like manner, then drive away and go back into hiding before BBs have a chance to shoot at you. 

 

Oh, I do know the limitations and how to work around them. I have played the Myoukou with its equally horrendous turret traverse after all (plus the Gnevny which is basically the same problem in DD format).

 

Im just complaining that it shouldn't be problematic in the first place and how ridiculous it is from a balancing perspective compared to other competing ships.

[Takeda92]

You know, I have been playing Mogami with the 203mm after the angles buff, and with a CE captain, acceleration mod. and the new rudder mod. I feel much more flexible and I don't even miss the extra 1km concealment. I can't say it will be competitive with Atago because I got ARP Takao and I immediately noticed the difference that the heal gives me.

Mogami in my opinion doesn't have firepower problem, even the 155mm can work with the right skills and equipment, her major problem is how squishy it is. Angling in this ship doesn't stop citadels, it needs a heal and I'm sure that New Orleans, as great in ranked as it was, has the same issue in random battles.

[albinbino]

I voted against, at least for Mogami case. I am hardcore Mogami player with 340 battles in it, even I have Zao, I still play Mogami everyday with enjoyment. I am well aware of all weak points that Mogami has but still  heal is not needed. It is needed that player understand this ship, its role in battle and how to play it. It took me lots of battles and time for this.  

[FireflyActual]

I have the Hipper and the Mogami and I would love a heal for them, though tbh that should apply to all tier VIII cruisers. At long range the Hipper is just as squishy as the Japanese ships, at closer ranges it becomes tankier. Despite this it's still less survivable than the Atago. The heal is a massive boost to the latter's survivability, so much so that my scores in it are markedly better than in the Mogami despite being such similar ships (with the same captain too). 

[Mik1984]

I have the Hipper and the Mogami and I would love a heal for them, though tbh that should apply to all tier VIII cruisers. At long range the Hipper is just as squishy as the Japanese ships, at closer ranges it becomes tankier. Despite this it's still less survivable than the Atago. The heal is a massive boost to the latter's survivability, so much so that my scores in it are markedly better than in the Mogami despite being such similar ships (with the same captain too). 

 

OK, i would agree to heal for Chapayev and New Orleans, but only in exchange for Radar/Spotter plane. Having Heal + Radar on those ships would be OP IMHO. What do you think?

[Panocek]

 

OK, i would agree to heal for Chapayev and New Orleans, but only in exchange for Radar/Spotter plane. Having Heal + Radar on those ships would be OP IMHO. What do you think?

 

Single heal (up to 3 with premium and SI) could work too.