Rest in peace Cruisers, may you be remembered.

[robihr]

someone recently wrote this on forum:

"i was in battle, 5bb, 2 ca, 5dd per team. one bb in enemy team says: damn that dd meta"

btw i rarely see 5 dd per team, but frequently see 5-6 bb per team.

 

people dont see a problem with overpopulation of bb-s and see it as normal. it is hard to play ca in bb meta. while i dont agree with op on some points, in general he is correct. ca have lost their role. bb have become jack of all trades. there is no need for support from ca anymore.

 

sure some people say they are very good. yes they are in right hands, but any ship in right hands is very good.

[Lieut_Gruber]

OP is spot on about the German BB, especialy the T7 and 8 (dont have the 9 and 10, cannot judge those). The Gneissenau with superior AA, and the Bismarck with Acoustic pulse are in fact heavily armored cruisers, they dont need support. Also both are fast and turn well so dodging torps is easy.

[TheRonson]

I actually agree that as long as British cruisers have smoke and trash armor it shouldn't have HE. They are really strong ship as they are

 

Eh!  I have just started using the Fiji it is so weak in MOST games it is not a ship that you will see for long on the battlefield.  The score rate is really really poor, it will take a lifetime to get the Edinburgh, average kill is 1 ship in every 5 games, unless you get T7 battles which are few and far between. Rather than have a nightmare month trying to grind the Edinburgh, it will be bought with free XP.   ( Up till now the Leander is the only keeper ) this one is marked SOLD 

 

 

I may have been a bit hasty in the assessment of the Fiji, think I won 4 battles out of 20 as the MM seemed to throw me into T9 battles none stop, but today most if not all in T7 and T8 and things are looking up!

 

[RogDodgeUK]

moved to Ships / Cruisers

[KHETTIFER]

 

Eh!  I have just started using the Fiji it is so weak in MOST games it is not a ship that you will see for long on the battlefield.  The score rate is really really poor, it will take a lifetime to get the Edinburgh, average kill is 1 ship in every 5 games, unless you get T7 battles which are few and far between. Rather than have a nightmare month trying to grind the Edinburgh, it will be bought with free XP.   ( Up till now the Leander is the only keeper ) this one is marked SOLD 

 

Can't disagree more, the Fiji if played correctly is strong as f**K!, you can easily push whole teams (provided there's no radar equipped ships there) off caps, ambush BBs and outright delete most of them from full health with torps and then disappear again into smoke to avoid reprisal.

What i would like to see is the RN CL line get a very low fire chance on their AP shells, like a general purpose Incendiary AP shell of some sorts.

Saying that the Belfast has HE, and i actually see it performing badly in games, but that's most likely more to do with the captains.

[Ryuuteimaru]

R.I.P cruisers your slow extinction was long time coming.

 

Edit:oh great oceans back even less reason to play a cruiser.

[C4PT41N_0BV10US]

Cruisers = zero.

Zao = good.

RN line from VII+ = extremely good, more DD then cruiser though

Rest = crap/unfun/unplayable/not being able to do what they should.

 

On the other hand though...

HEAR HEAR! What do I have here? I heard you don't like torps? Well, lucky for you, I have a brand new Grosser Kurfurst available! Mighty descendant of Friedrich and Bismarck, he packs 12 guns, so puny cruisers are easy to hit by loldispersion salvoes! But, we also gave him sick secondaries, so if you catch them reaaaaaally close, like 10 km close, so almost side to side, you can demolish them without even shooting main guns at them! Oooh, but I got carried away, and forgot about those torps I mentioned! Apart from lolgunz, secondaries, GK also has hydro. Now, you can have immunity to pesky torpedoes for more then a 2 minutes! NEAT. Buuuut, there's more! I know you dont like those fires you can heal 100% right. Mighty BB's didn't burn irl!!!11one! This GK, you know, you gonna like it, has 105k hit points. Yup! That's right. So when you heal, you can outheal even three fires! Siiick. And I packed additional armour on your superstructures, so you will just ignore 90% of HE shells. Cause reasons. Also, in case some BB flippin bro wanted to help his cruisers (<spit> filthy cruisers), Grosser Kurfurst is also Grosser Armoured, so lol no quick takedown, nuh uh. Now. This my good friend, this, is BALANCE. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Also, if you buy this GK package, I'll pack "How to start a whine about UP BB's" tutorial. I must say, that looks like a bargain for me!

[El2aZeR]

​I always said from CBT moving the Mogami up a tier was a big mistake (my personal opinon).

 

I disagree, Mogami needed to be up-tiered, it was simply too strong and even at T8 it was, in my opinion, hilariously OP. Having 15 guns with great RoF, more than 18km range and good fire chance was more than worth the horrible turret traverse and you could dodge devastating BB salvos at that range with ease.

 

Then came the BFT/AFT nerf and now the Mogami is a shadow of it's former self (along with the Cleveland).

[RUSSIANBlAS]

If cruisers are so bad then how did I get to Rank 1 with them when I'm a BB player normally?

 

A lot of the problem like others have said is user error. Don't fire as soon as something is in range, you must be observant of the enemy. Always look at enemy BB guns and NEVER give them an easy target as I guarantee someone will be looking to farm your citadel.

 

You must be paranoid about every shell you could potentially take!!!

[KaraMon]

Negativvv , yes we know how to shoot , the problem is that still high tier cruisers feel like you rely on sheer incompetence of BB players to bo effective . Average Joe in his mighty Yamato on first glance of HE rain going down on him run away from you , but what happends when 1 out of 100 BB players know that instead of runing away in panic he can move forward and atack ? You are screwed

 

 

In this game you need only 2 ships , DD to go first, scout, spot , detect torps , cap zones and a BB 5-10 km behind him pusing with him  . Cruiser is not needed for this to be effective

 

On the other hand there is that strange battle mode called rank 1 battles , t10 Zao/Minotaur fest where no one wants to play a DD and BB

[Gojuadorai]

wow OP got flagged popular...

 

the ammount of ignorance on this forum is too damn high

[Surmaaja]

If cruisers are so bad then how did I get to Rank 1 with them when I'm a BB player normally?

 

A lot of the problem like others have said is user error. Don't fire as soon as something is in range, you must be observant of the enemy. Always look at enemy BB guns and NEVER give them an easy target as I guarantee someone will be looking to farm your citadel.

 

You must be paranoid about every shell you could potentially take!!!

 

Most of the times there are considerably fewer BBs in ranked matches. Generally class numbers are pretty evenly distributed. I like to play cruisers in ranked too.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Negativvv , yes we know how to shoot , the problem is that still high tier cruisers feel like you rely on sheer incompetence of BB players to bo effective . Average Joe in his mighty Yamato on first glance of HE rain going down on him run away from you , but what happends when 1 out of 100 BB players know that instead of runing away in panic he can move forward and atack ? You are screwed

 

 

In this game you need only 2 ships , DD to go first, scout, spot , detect torps , cap zones and a BB 5-10 km behind him pusing with him  . Cruiser is not needed for this to be effective

 

On the other hand there is that strange battle mode called rank 1 battles , t10 Zao/Minotaur fest where no one wants to play a DD and BB

 

in a fight you wouldn't be shooting first and you'll need to be careful with revealing yourself and if you are then you'd try and make yourself as hard to hit and unappealing as possible. It's entirely possible to do well and make a decent contribution as a cruiser.

[BloodRose13]

Well, this has been a most interesting read and I must say that I was not expecting so many replies. Now my time is limited and s please just let me address some key points that have been raised:

 

1) Cruisers are not UP, your just a scrub. Yes, actually they are underpowered. Unless you would like to come down from your mighty Battleship and prove it? No, didnt think so. Next please.

 

2) You just need to stay close to your team and not run off. I addressed this in my opening post. Often when a Battleship has to choose between deleting a Cruiser or hammering another Battleship he goes for the free XP citadel. This does include times when said free XP citadel reveals itself by firing in support of its Battleships, even if it is behind them.

 

3) Use A and D, dont run broadside in a straight line. Well, this goes without saying, and most players understand this. However cruisers do not turn like DD's, and even if you are end on you can still suffer a citadel. penetration. Finally I would also like to remind players that Cruiser do have to turn at some point, usually to avoid running too far ahead of their lines or to turn back because the target moved out of range. And that is when disaster strikes.

 

4) Cruisers are the most powerful line in the game. Really? Well then, how about vacating your Bismark and coming down to play a Nuremberg?

 

and finally;

5) Royal Navy Cruisers are amazingly OP. Ahahahahahahahahahaha, well done, that got a good laugh from me. Now please pull the other one, it has bells attached.

[BuccaneerBill]

OP, just because you cannot play cruisers, does not mean they are bad. There are bad ones, but plenty of good ones too like any line.

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Cruiser play takes no prisoners as you can get smashed by showing even a very steep angle. 

 

Again, I'm a BB player. How come I found Ranked more fruitful in an Atago than my Bismarck? So fruitful I hit R1 with a ship I've barely used until Season 5?

[Surmaaja]

Cruiser play takes no prisoners as you can get smashed by showing even a very steep angle. 

 

Again, I'm a BB player. How come I found Ranked more fruitful in an Atago than my Bismarck? So fruitful I hit R1 with a ship I've barely used until Season 5?

Maybe you got carried hard

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Maybe you got carried hard

 

oh I'd love to think so too. 

 

Over 400 games and my PR for Atago is fairly decent... I'll admit I haven't hard carried much but I've done my part 

[Gojuadorai]

Well, this has been a most interesting read and I must say that I was not expecting so many replies. Now my time is limited and s please just let me address some key points that have been raised:

 

1) Cruisers are not UP, your just a scrub. Yes, actually they are underpowered. Unless you would like to come down from your mighty Battleship and prove it? No, didnt think so. Next please.

cruisers are not OP of my 5,5k+ games i have more games in cruisers than any other class... you ARE a whiny scrub!

 

2) You just need to stay close to your team and not run off. I addressed this in my opening post. Often when a Battleship has to choose between deleting a Cruiser or hammering another Battleship he goes for the free XP citadel. This does include times when said free XP citadel reveals itself by firing in support of its Battleships, even if it is behind them.

you just described what the enemys BB's job is so what? you know your job? dont let them hit you

 

3) Use A and D, dont run broadside in a straight line. Well, this goes without saying, and most players understand this. However cruisers do not turn like DD's, and even if you are end on you can still suffer a citadel. penetration. Finally I would also like to remind players that Cruiser do have to turn at some point, usually to avoid running too far ahead of their lines or to turn back because the target moved out of range. And that is when disaster strikes.

most cruisers are nimble enough to doge a lot of fire

 

4) Cruisers are the most powerful line in the game. Really? Well then, how about vacating your Bismark and coming down to play a Nuremberg?

compare tow tiers? N berg is a good ship

 

and finally;

5) Royal Navy Cruisers are amazingly OP. Ahahahahahahahahahaha, well done, that got a good laugh from me. Now please pull the other one, it has bells attached.

after tier 5 they are freakishly strong

 

 

 

[Slezman]

I like cruisers (Eugen, Hipper especially) and when I make no major mistake it is much more fun than in BBs, even german ones. Dogfights with DDs are most enjoyed.

[vortenus]

Saw some valid points about cruiser here, thought about writing few things, but then i read this:

 

5) Royal Navy Cruisers are amazingly OP. Ahahahahahahahahahaha, well done, that got a good laugh from me. Now please pull the other one, it has bells attached.

 

So I checked Your stats.

You don't know much about cruisers (it's not a attack, just statement of facts). You're playing KM CA which is not ideal for 1st line to say the least. They're rather fragile AP spammers with pretty bad HE. IJN's no-brainers-burn-everything-in-site cruisers would be much better choice for the start.

About cruisers in general I see two major problems.

1st its the current meta. Lots and lots of BB's. Its understandable, cause lets be honest, BB's require least skill to play and can forgive a lot. In CA and DD's you can go back to port after one mistake. So majority of players choose something easy to play thus said ""BB infestation". Introducing KM BB's (which are incredibly easy to play) and RN CL's - OP (yes, OP as fu*k in the right hands but super hard to play), in short time didn't helped it. 

2nd RNG. Even if You do everything perfect You can still be sunk in a seceond. Why? Becouse fuc*k You, thats why! BB shoots a salvo from 20+ km, RNGsus throws the dice and one shell separates from others and You got Yourself a citadel. Despite being angled and manouvering and that mean 20-50% of Your HP is gone just like that. Again, doesnt happen in BB's.

While we cant do much about 1st (at least not until KM DD's are introduced-btw WG, nice game-braking line, really gg), I wrote an idea about 2nd problem some time ago. Increse prob. of CA being citadel while broadside to BB (I sailed in straight line, made a mistake, good for You, have a free citadel) but severly decrease chance of citadel on angled/manouvering CA.

Some things to increase CA population would also be nice. Missions only for cruisers with nice rewards, bonus xp for plaing CA, bonus gold. Something like that.

[BillydSquid]

I've come back to CAs after a long hiatus, I'm grinding up the Soviet CA line, from them while I ground up the IJN and KM lines to T9 ( I refused to go to T10 which I experienced when the Shima Torpedo spam was prevalent months ago when I was running the Hindenburg)

 

The same problem still exists, and this is over 6 months later, though the capped repair costs have helped somewhat. CAs are not that fun to play. Make a mistake and you'll be brutally punished for it, or just get plain unlucky, and you'll be tagged by a BB and blown out the water through no fault of your own. I've done this to CAs, 18km distance to a Moskva with my FdG, 2 citadels, simply because he got caught broadside on. 50% of his HP evaporated vs my 420mm guns. Just plain dumb luck, because I though I'd take a pot shot and try my luck regardless of the FdG crappy dispersion.

 

That ^ is what forces CAs into situational play or invisi firing. You don't dare get close in high tiers without getting obliterated by a lucky salvo, and then spend half the match sitting it out. 

 

I've got my Roon set up to invis fire, 20km range, concealment module & grinding to the captain skill concealment expert, sit there and spam He/ Ap shells. the Roon is pretty good as far CAs go, it's reasonably hard to citadel, but it still suffers from the same problem, get caught out of position, you're screwed. It's why the vast majority of CA builds will be geared towards concealment, as being spotted often leads to a salvo that if you're just unlucky gets you sunk.  

 

It's sad that the CVs are vanishingly rare, and the gradual power creep for BBs has led to the MM shifting towards BBs being the dominant class. Before high tiers you'd get 5 DD every other game, now you get 5 BBs every other game. Fewer DDs, virtually no CVs and lots of BBs slugging it out tends to mean CAs get the short end of the stick which forced most player to play a certain way (RN CLs are different from what I've seen). 

 

The CAs aren't completely broken, they just need a bit more survivability (not HP or armour) making the citadels a bit smaller so it's not so easy to hit them with dumb luck shots would be a start. Taking a full broadside salvo from a BB will guarantee you'll be crippled or one shotted, citadels or not. But it's frankly galling to be 18km away and a lucky shell citadels you, or be perfectly angled and the shell ploughs through the deck and renders your angling irrelevant. Not exactly a situation which encourages greater uptake of the CA lines. 

[HerasDeath]

I like cruisers (Eugen, Hipper especially) and when I make no major mistake it is much more fun than in BBs, even german ones. Dogfights with DDs are most enjoyed.

 

Yess, Hipper was my main until Eugen came out. Now I main Eugen  

[basharran]

Funny OP, have a +1 for that. Don't agree with it, but it sure feels like that on the forum sometimes.

[Rick_Hunter]

Imo the thing is bbs outnumber cas in most games. If it was the opposite playing ca would be way more relaxing