[MIRKO] ImKilaya Beta Tester 48 posts 10,968 battles Report post #1 Posted November 9, 2016 Is this real? Please see picture and stats attached. If it's real, then I'm super excited, I loved reading about this ship and her siblings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TVO] xenopathia Players 386 posts 13,741 battles Report post #2 Posted November 9, 2016 A T6 cruiser with 283mm guns? Looks unreal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[MIRKO] ImKilaya Beta Tester 48 posts 10,968 battles Report post #3 Posted November 9, 2016 A T6 cruiser with 283mm guns? Looks unreal. Why not? Looks op, but Jingles posted this picture on his facebook saying it came with screenshots of german dds straight from Wargaming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[ATRA] Srle_Vigilante Weekend Tester 1,233 posts 10,342 battles Report post #4 Posted November 9, 2016 It is. Confirmed by WG as well. http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/66095-reveal-german-destroyers/page__p__1416704#entry1416704 Also let me add it barely has any armor. So basicly a bigger konigsberg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BLOBS] StuntMan0369 Beta Tester 923 posts 4,848 battles Report post #5 Posted November 9, 2016 As a real life ship with quite a well known name, it wasn't a matter of if she got introduced, but when she would arrive. If they're quick about her testing, she'll probably be here around Christmas time. Then again, this is a relatively new ship design that we've not see in the game before, so it might take a little longer to test. I love her already, and with her potentially being involved in the Haifuri collab next year, I'm even more excited! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[-SBG-] ColonelPete Players 38,559 posts 19,140 battles Report post #6 Posted November 9, 2016 Why do people come to the forum to just unload stuff instead of reading first. A forum is a place of exchange, not a dump. Look at what others posted (multiple times!!) and find your answers. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[HOO] Djansolo [HOO] Beta Tester 229 posts 10,834 battles Report post #7 Posted November 9, 2016 A T6 cruiser with 283mm guns? Looks unreal. Or you could call it a 2/3 Scharnhorst with out much armor. A difficult ship to place indeed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[MIRKO] ImKilaya Beta Tester 48 posts 10,968 battles Report post #8 Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) It is. Confirmed by WG as well. http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/66095-reveal-german-destroyers/page__p__1416704#entry1416704 Also let me add it barely has any armor. So basicly a bigger konigsberg. Fantastic! It's going to be insta-buy for me if she has decent stats (and they look solid for now) Edited November 9, 2016 by ImKilaya Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vaderan Alpha Tester 1,103 posts 2,741 battles Report post #9 Posted November 10, 2016 I´d say, Graf Spee as a tier 6 cruiser is perfectly balanced. It´s where she belongs. Faster than any stronger shop, stronger than any faster ship, with the exception for the Dunkerque, which was supposed to be the direct counter for the Deutschland class pocket battleships. She will be able to do significant damage to cruisers, moderate damage to BBs and will be rather useless against DDs. I am sure she will provide a rather unique playstyle... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TPHPaskins Players 24 posts 1,647 battles Report post #10 Posted November 10, 2016 I call dibs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diminios Players 324 posts 3,103 battles Report post #11 Posted November 10, 2016 I´d say, Graf Spee as a tier 6 cruiser is perfectly balanced. It´s where she belongs. Faster than any stronger shop, stronger than any faster ship, with the exception for the Dunkerque, which was supposed to be the direct counter for the Deutschland class pocket battleships cruisers. She will be able to do significant damage to cruisers, moderate damage to BBs and will be rather useless against DDs. I am sure she will provide a rather unique playstyle... Fixed that for you. "Faster than any stronger ship" - some BBs it will meet will be able to catch it - Kongo, Dunkek as you already said, and the Germans - Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Tirpitz, Bismarck. Don't forget how much the MM likes T5 and T6 nowadays. "stronger than any faster ship" - again, debatable. The bigger alpha of its guns compared to the Scharnhorst will certainly help, as well as the muzzle velocity (supposedly alpha is 8400 and mv is 920m/s, compared to 7600 and 890m/s for the Scharnhorst). Combined with a shorter range than the Scharnhorst, it should have much flatter arcs too. But if the dispersion is a trollish as that of the Scharnhorst, with only 6 guns, you might land shells everywhere but on the target. It does seem to have slightly better armor than the Aoba and Nürnberg, but... that could just mean it causes fewer overpens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[TTTX] Ictogan Players 1,841 posts 7,432 battles Report post #12 Posted November 10, 2016 I´d say, Graf Spee as a tier 6 cruiser is perfectly balanced. It´s where she belongs. Faster than any stronger shop, stronger than any faster ship, with the exception for the Dunkerque, which was supposed to be the direct counter for the Deutschland class pocket battleships. She will be able to do significant damage to cruisers, moderate damage to BBs and will be rather useless against DDs. I am sure she will provide a rather unique playstyle... There's Kongo, Dunkek, Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Bismarck, Tirpitz, Amagi which are faster than Graf Spee and will absolutely murder her. And she's not even much faster than König, Bayern, Nagato, etc. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[BAZI] allufewig Beta Tester 2,912 posts 15,263 battles Report post #13 Posted November 10, 2016 I smell the next OP ship. Artificially overbuffed values on the weaponry (like 8400 AP damage) at an unhistorical 20s reload and nice ~16km range. Then there are the torps: 2x4 with 8km range@65kn and insanely good firing angles. The consumable madness continues with heal on T6, a choice between def AA and hydro and it has a fighter instead of a spotter. Belt is good enough to deal with cruisers when angled. Bow and Stern are 19mm and do not get overmatched by 203mms. Agility and camo are okay-ish The only way to balance this out would be to cut her real-life dpm to lousy levels by giving her only 6 guns the Scharnhorst-accuracy. With the common accuracy-bonus that cruisers usually have, this thing will be completely insane. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diminios Players 324 posts 3,103 battles Report post #14 Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) They might still lower the alpha on it, just like they did with the Scharnhorst. Decent torp angles, especially considering where the launchers are and when compared to IJN ships. Edited November 15, 2016 by Diminios 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SCRUB] piritskenyer Players, Players, Sailing Hamster 3,462 posts 5,363 battles Report post #15 Posted November 10, 2016 Fixed that for you. "Faster than any stronger ship" - some BBs it will meet will be able to catch it - Kongo, Dunkek as you already said, and the Germans - Gneisenau, Scharnhorst, Tirpitz, Bismarck. Don't forget how much the MM likes T5 and T6 nowadays. "stronger than any faster ship" - again, debatable. The bigger alpha of its guns compared to the Scharnhorst will certainly help, as well as the muzzle velocity (supposedly alpha is 8400 and mv is 920m/s, compared to 7600 and 890m/s for the Scharnhorst). Combined with a shorter range than the Scharnhorst, it should have much flatter arcs too. But if the dispersion is a trollish as that of the Scharnhorst, with only 6 guns, you might land shells everywhere but on the target. It does seem to have slightly better armor than the Aoba and Nürnberg, but... that could just mean it causes fewer overpens. When she was designed (late 1920's), she was designed as a heavy commerce raider and cruiser killer capable of outrunning the fast BB's of the era (at this time a fast BB does 23-25 kts, not 28-33). True, she wouldn't have been able to outrun BC's, but then again, BC's at this time had cruiser-grade armour. Comparisons to Dunkerque are hardly fair, as she was specifically designed as a counter to Graf Spee... The more powerful armament on Graf Spee compared to Scharnhorst is outright idiotic, as Scharnhorst carried an upgraded version of Graf Spee's guns. The higher muzzle velocity is historical, but Scharnhorst fired a heavier projectile (330kg vs 300kg, 10% increase), which would warrant better alpha on Scharnhorst. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Diminios Players 324 posts 3,103 battles Report post #16 Posted November 10, 2016 When she was designed (late 1920's), she was designed as a heavy commerce raider and cruiser killer capable of outrunning the fast BB's of the era (at this time a fast BB does 23-25 kts, not 28-33). True, she wouldn't have been able to outrun BC's, but then again, BC's at this time had cruiser-grade armour. Comparisons to Dunkerque are hardly fair, as she was specifically designed as a counter to Graf Spee... True, but with the current MM, she will meet many of the true fast battleships from T6 to T8. I was referring to the MM spread and her opponents in the game, not IRL. And if I understood correctly, so was Vaderan (if not, I stand corrected). The more powerful armament on Graf Spee compared to Scharnhorst is outright idiotic, as Scharnhorst carried an upgraded version of Graf Spee's guns. The higher muzzle velocity is historical, but Scharnhorst fired a heavier projectile (330kg vs 300kg, 10% increase), which would warrant better alpha on Scharnhorst. Couldn't agree more, but when has historical accuracy stopped WG from, well "balancing" the game? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC Players 1,139 posts Report post #17 Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) I´d say, Graf Spee as a tier 6 cruiser is perfectly balanced. It´s where she belongs. Faster than any stronger shop, stronger than any faster ship, with the exception for the Dunkerque, which was supposed to be the direct counter for the Deutschland class pocket battleships. She will be able to do significant damage to cruisers, moderate damage to BBs and will be rather useless against DDs. I am sure she will provide a rather unique playstyle... Define stronger. She has so-so armour and 11" guns. But only one turret at each end, which means only 3 guns when angling. But I wouldn't be too sure about relying on 'Faster than any stronger ship, stronger than any faster ship'. Both the Aoba and Budyonny are significantly quicker, and very good cruisers indeed. If the average 'I bought a pocket battleship' player just jumps in and doesn't give cruisers like that respect, they are going to come a cropper pretty quickly. Also being quicker than the average BB at those tiers wont help massively if your not being observant. Don't get me wrong, I will be at the head of the queue to buy this as soon as its out. But I expect it will take a while to learn how it plays, both for the person playing it, and their team mates. I am rather pleased it will be tier 6 though. That I think is a sensible place for it. And yes, I too cant wait for a Graff Spee v Dunkerque match up. Edited November 10, 2016 by anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[JUNK] Affeks [JUNK] Beta Tester 1,934 posts 8,416 battles Report post #18 Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) Looks crapat tier 6 imo, has to have literally no citadel and be difficult to even get pens. Tier 5 is my call Also look at that secondary armament, why limit it to only 4 km??? cmon I wanna do secondary builds on cruisers other than Cleveland already... Edited November 11, 2016 by Affeks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[SPUDS] Comrad_StaIin Beta Tester 4,594 posts 20,080 battles Report post #19 Posted November 11, 2016 Looks crapat tier 6 imo, has to have literally no citadel and be difficult to even get pens. Tier 5 is my call Also look at that secondary armament, why limit it to only 4 km??? cmon I wanna do secondary builds on cruisers other than Cleveland already... use Roon its pretty good with secondary build Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[JUNK] Affeks [JUNK] Beta Tester 1,934 posts 8,416 battles Report post #20 Posted November 11, 2016 use Roon its pretty good with secondary build Secondary builds in high tier is just boring, but yeah I've considered it. then again Roon only has 5 km range on secondaries while Moskva has 6.5... so I'd rather go for Moskva secondary build Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[JUNK] Affeks [JUNK] Beta Tester 1,934 posts 8,416 battles Report post #21 Posted November 11, 2016 I mean, Spee is too slow to effectively outrun/kite BBs (except for US bbs ofc), too little survivability to brawl/1v1, outgunned by ALL BBs, all cruisers can spam HE and set more fires, layout not designed for angeling and secondary range is subpar... I mean Spee will probably get good turning circle and torps seems to be good, but that only makes it a gimmicky torpedo boat instead of that cruiserhunter it was designed to be. Id rather see it at tier 5 and be less gimmicky tbh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[KNGK] Valhalla1966 [KNGK] Players 290 posts 16,704 battles Report post #22 Posted November 11, 2016 (edited) I am interested in price of Graff Spee.Is somebody who knows how much money I must pay for this ship? I saw about 4 700 dublons - is it true? Edited November 11, 2016 by NuklearnaPL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
[FK] Combat_Hamster Players 438 posts 33,869 battles Report post #23 Posted November 11, 2016 I can't wat for a Shocket Battlepip to be in game 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC Players 1,139 posts Report post #24 Posted November 11, 2016 I am interested in price of Graff Spee.Is somebody who knows how much money I must pay for this ship? I saw about 4 700 dublons - is it true? It will be tier 6, same as Dunkerque, so I would expect a similar price. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puxflacet Players 1,694 posts 3,784 battles Report post #25 Posted November 11, 2016 16km? T6? this stinks graf spee is such a great opportunity to bring ship with completely unique playstyle. it seems that wg doesnt think so. long-range, sneaky sniper at tier 5 looked like good role for her...what wg think that she will do against north carolinas, amagis, mogamis ? or will she have pref MM? i think that the tier 8 is deadly enviroment for her and why are so many people offended by pocket battleship? keep in mind shes not cruiser at least she was not designed to be cruiser but thats what she became because after her were built cruiser beasts which would torn her apart. strange that the term battlecruiser was never used for her. and it would be fitting. certainly way fitting than for scharnhorst...ugh Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
