USS Missouri + KMS DDs + KMS Graf Spee preliminary stats (5.15 ST)

[CuddlyPanda]

The devs have lost their minds. Can you please stop sucking the @$$ of braindead BB's? I don't care if the T10 GEDD has 17km range. No-one in their right mind shoots at that range with those shells. And the smoke nerf is just plain "awesome"...

[Darth_Glorious]

The sonar nerf is justified because the sonar was so good for DD ganking if you have Ger DD platoons.

The torpedo reloading nerfs on low tier are also justified because they are too good as pre nerfed Jap DDs

But the combined nerfs on high tier DDs are too harsh because high tier DDs generally have much worse camo and agility then their Jap and US counterparts.

[_cosmo]

German DD sonar detection range nerfed to same level of other nations

 

TX      Z-52 sonar : 4,9 km vs ship and 3,4 km vs torp

TIX     Z-46 sonar : 4,7 km vs ship and 3,3 km vs torp

TVIII   Z-23 sonar : 4,4 km vs ship and 3,1 km vs torp

TVII    LM   sonar  : 4,2 km vs ship and 3,0 km vs torp

TVI     EG   sonar  : 4,0 km vs ship and 2,8 km vs torp

 

 

Still better than lo yang's 3.48 & 2,52. Those are normal cruiser sonars!

I expect this is also what bismark will also get, since they promised a sonar nerf before next ranked season

[RoyalColor]

German DD sonar detection range nerfed to same level of other nations

 

TX      Z-52 sonar : 4,9 km vs ship and 3,4 km vs torp

TIX     Z-46 sonar : 4,7 km vs ship and 3,3 km vs torp

TVIII   Z-23 sonar : 4,4 km vs ship and 3,1 km vs torp

TVII    LM   sonar  : 4,2 km vs ship and 3,0 km vs torp

TVI     EG   sonar  : 4,0 km vs ship and 2,8 km vs torp

 

 

 

Hmm... Do these stack with Vigilance and Target Acquisition Mod1?

[Darth_Glorious]

 

Hmm... Do these stack with Vigilance and Target Acquisition Mod1?

 

Sonar stacks only with Vigilance

[Gojuadorai]

Penalty for shooting with Germand DDs main guns was nerfed: from 3.15km to 6.65km, some higher tiers got up to 8km.

 

yeah this is nonsense  as already said here this creates a lot of akward (maybe deadly) situations for DD's

 WG wants to get rid of stealth firing (dont ask me why, in my 6k+ games i nerly never was killed or seriously hurt by extended ammounts of stealth fire)

so be it but i good oldfashioned WG manner they overdo it by A LOT.

 

WG moving away from stealth gameplay to cater to the BBabies... 

 

seriously its getting old .... this ominous ilulinati "BBabies" have done more according to the forums than god during creation week....

[mtm78]

seriously its getting old .... this ominous ilulinati "BBabies" have done more according to the forums than god during creation week....

 

Ikr, time for WG to stop listening to those BBabies...

[Takeda92]

 

Ikr, time for WG to stop listening to those BBabies...

 

This is one of the few times where I really think "babies" had nothing to do with it. Anyone without any German bias could see those DDs were serious powercreep. Was the firing penalty nerf justified? maybe, but it's just there to ensure no invisifiring with AFT and the range mod which German DDs could get up to 16km of range. 

 

In fact, I believe I was the only one whining about those DDs being OP. When it comes to this forum, most people love OP German stuff because Tiger?Bismarck best tank/ship crap and whatever..

[mtm78]

The reference to the BB(abies) is that WG said they want to remove stealth firing ( that is was added 'by mistake' ) and well which is the ONE class which suffers the most from being susceptible to sustained invisi fire?

 

As to the DD's balance atm, I wouldn't know that's an ST job right I am not commenting on the German DD's because even from specs it's pretty hard to really judge balance. You have to play them in the current meta to see how it works in conjunction with content already in the game ( and perhaps WG is also looking forward a bit to content they plan on adding later ).

[Comrad_StaIin]

ikr they just think after 2 years of excessive testing

Dev1: "hmm,maybe we sould remove invisi firing as BBabies are whining about it"

Dev2:"but the other Players will cry big nerf totally unnecessary"

Dev3: "I think we should just sell it as an mistake that was left from alpha (which happened 2 years ago)

Dev1&2:"sounds reasonable." "that'll do!"

[Gojuadorai]

 

This is one of the few times where I really think "babies" had nothing to do with it. Anyone without any German bias could see those DDs were serious powercreep. Was the firing penalty nerf justified? maybe, but it's just there to ensure no invisifiring with AFT and the range mod which German DDs could get up to 16km of range. 

 

 

i'm not good at DD's nor do i play them a lot and i only took a quick look at the german DD's but im kinda confused can you clear up a few things for me?

Because i cant belive that it was a reasonable step to nerf  the penalty rather then something else,

the problem i see is it really screws with people playing the DD's and not going for absolute max range spec (and even for those)

 

- what is the powercreep those boats show? coudnt there be a direct nerf to that?

- arent they all tashkent like boats? (big and verry prone to torps and shells, that dont do well in cap fights?)

- do they really need to kill the whole sealthfire window to make it unpractical?

 

 

[Takeda92]

 

i'm not good at DD's nor do i play them a lot and i only took a quick look at the german DD's but im kinda confused can you clear up a few things for me?

Because i cant belive that it was a reasonable step to nerf  the penalty rather then something else,

the problem i see is it really screws with people playing the DD's and not going for absolute max range spec (and even for those)

 

- what is the powercreep those boats show? coudnt there be a direct nerf to that?

- arent they all tashkent like boats? (big and verry prone to torps and shells, that dont do well in cap fights?)

- do they really need to kill the whole sealthfire window to make it unpractical?

 

 

 

WG didn't say they will only make German DDs unable to stealth fire. For all we know, 2 patch later, all ships will receive a similar nerf. Devs stated they do not like stealth firing. They were looking for nerfing Zao or ages now but backed down because of BB dominance and lack of cruisers in MM.

 

They have high HP, good gun ranges, good AP, good torps (which everyone seem to forget about), a hydro which no other DD line get, good AA at high tiers, better stealth than the Russians.. in general. And in lower tiers, they have the gimmick of forward facing torpedoes. The torpedoes fire in 90 seconds base (67 seconds with all the skills/mods.! at tier 10!!)

 

In order for them not to be powercreep, some ships will have to look good and some have to look meh, just like when you look at the ships in an existing line (like Konigsberg vs Yorck). You can't expect all these DDs to be gems that will absolutely dominate ranked and randoms, and you can't say that all of them are garbage that can't do anything like a Krasny Krym.

 

As or fire penalty, personally I'd change it so that the penalty doesn't exceed your gun range no matter what skill/mods you use, but this is the system we have and I can't accept people complaining about the lack of invisifiring on German DDs when eventually it will be removed from other lines as well.. unless you want to complain about removing invisifiring as a whole.

[Comodoro_Allande]

German DD's for the next patch 

 

http://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/common/german-destroyers-widget/

[Gojuadorai]

 

WG didn't say they will only make German DDs unable to stealth fire. For all we know, 2 patch later, all ships will receive a similar nerf. Devs stated they do not like stealth firing. They were looking for nerfing Zao or ages now but backed down because of BB dominance and lack of cruisers in MM.

 

They have high HP, good gun ranges, good AP, good torps (which everyone seem to forget about), a hydro which no other DD line get, good AA at high tiers, better stealth than the Russians.. in general. And in lower tiers, they have the gimmick of forward facing torpedoes. The torpedoes fire in 90 seconds base (67 seconds with all the skills/mods.! at tier 10!!)

 

In order for them not to be powercreep, some ships will have to look good and some have to look meh, just like when you look at the ships in an existing line (like Konigsberg vs Yorck). You can't expect all these DDs to be gems that will absolutely dominate ranked and randoms, and you can't say that all of them are garbage that can't do anything like a Krasny Krym.

 

As or fire penalty, personally I'd change it so that the penalty doesn't exceed your gun range no matter what skill/mods you use, but this is the system we have and I can't accept people complaining about the lack of invisifiring on German DDs when eventually it will be removed from other lines as well.. unless you want to complain about removing invisifiring as a whole.

 

well you misunderstood my postings a little.

i never complained that german DD's arent able to invis fire.

imho i dont think it is needed in the game though i do not mind it beeing there  (without it a few ships would become way less attractive, chapey, zao and so on which would be a shame)

what i DO mind though is the implications of a large detection penalty when firing even if youre not stealth firing.

i really think it is bad that you cant kill of a boat to get undetected again if theres a 3rd boat miles away.

this takes away options for good and smart players.

(this is not limited to the german dd's!)

 

[Takeda92]

 

well you misunderstood my postings a little.

i never complained that german DD's arent able to invis fire.

imho i dont think it is needed in the game though i do not mind it beeing there  (without it a few ships would become way less attractive, chapey, zao and so on which would be a shame)

what i DO mind though is the implications of a large detection penalty when firing even if youre not stealth firing.

i really think it is bad that you cant kill of a boat to get undetected again if theres a 3rd boat miles away.

this takes away options for good and smart players.

(this is not limited to the german dd's!)

 

 

 

 Nothing was changed in the shot penalty like in happened on the PT server (It looks like an experiment outside the ST server to counter the invisifire)

 

We should get back to this after the line is released.

 

[Auzor_S]

Overall, I feel I'm not too fond of the "torpedo design mindset".

I feel that, on several lines, there will be a massive difference in stealth-torp capability between a high-tier captain, camo ship,

and a "normal" ship. Seems like a way to try to sell more premium/flags/camos to me. 

Just check it out: on some lines, the DD has ​500m of detection margin.

I also wonder a bit why exactly they have faster torps (and faster reloads?) than some IJN ships. 

 

So: German DD's: I suspect a bigger 'performance' difference between 'camo captain' and camo, than for the mid-tier IJN DD's that always had 10 km torps. 

However: I do feel, faster, shorter reload, torps that deal less damage each, are the way to go.

[creamgravy]

So: German DD's: I suspect a bigger 'performance' difference between 'camo captain' and camo

 

That's always been the case with destroyers and cruisers.

[0ddys]

The german torpedos trade off direct alphadamage (only 14.400 (this is 50% less than ijn hightiertorpedos) at all later Torpedos after the G7aT1) for there good to very good softstats.

 

[Auzor_S]

 

That's always been the case with destroyers and cruisers.

​Clarification:

I expect a bigger difference for german DD's, than for IJN, USN, destroyers, at least for those mid-tier ship captains that want to play their Kriegsmarine DD as a torpedo-boat.

An IJN DD as soon as he gets 10km torps, can opt to play torpedo ninja. German DD's will have a very small margin; too small in several cases I believe.