The adventures of a Cruiser Captain

[HMS_Antelope]

Hello Captains

 

I love playing Cruisers but currently I feel it is becoming nearly impossible on some maps to contribute.  For example yesterday I was supporting a couple of Battleships and a Destroyer from range against enemy Battleships, the enemy Battleships ignored the closer ships and fired at me even though I was angled.  I find this to be more common in game and I actually think they hurt there team by focusing on the wrong target.

 

I want Cruisers to be relevant in all battles just like the other classes, I also feel for the CV player as I saw T7 Carriers in my T8/9 games which is just a nightmare to play against the AA at that level.

 

For me all ship types have a part to play and I play all (not so much CV at the moment) and enjoy them.  But when Captains ignore the closer more obvious target to go for the easier kill I find it very frustrating. 

 

Do you think we need to adjust the Battleship guns towards Cruisers? I really enjoy playing Battleships myself but is it to easy to kill Cruisers in them.  I killed a Prinz E with two shots last night because he was broadside from 14k ish, he/she must have been miffed as the game had only just started, I even sent a sorry message but he was my only viable target.

 

Salt aside is this an idea that would help or just another complications to the game, I would prefer preferential MM for Cruisers myself.

[RenamedUser_92906789]

I like it the way it is as for the guns and armor. I just want to see MM fixed, so I dont get into 2 tiers difference.

 

[txtspeak]

We should NOT nerf BB guns against cruisers, we should generally buff cruiser armour.

getting citadelled bow on by the Bismark's 105mm secondaries is not fun...

[Tyrendian89]

We should NOT nerf BB guns against cruisers, we should generally buff cruiser armour.

getting citadelled bow on by the Bismark's 105mm secondaries is not fun...

 

there's just about nothing correct in that...

buffing cruiser armour would reduce the amount of overpens they take, while hardly ever being enough to stop a BB shell. So by increasing cruiser armour a bit we'd make them weaker against BB salvoes. (Exception being a buff to bow armour - but making that stronger than on BBs makes just about no sense...)

The 105's are largely incapable of doing shell damage to anything that isnt a DD or two tiers below.

Bismarck secondaries fire HE (which is precisely what makes them good in the first place) - so they do not citadel.

[aboomination]

getting citadelled bow on by the Bismark's 105mm secondaries is not fun...

 

Getting torped through islands by laser beam orcas isn't fun either.

[HMS_Antelope]

So I we saying the status quo is ok then?

 

I play Cruisers slightly more than other types and I can't believe Cruiser players think the balance is right at the moment.  It's not just about the number of Battleships in the game but the general weakness of the Cruiser, maybe the lack of Carrier players is making them less relevant in the current game.

 

Hunt DD's in the cap and you get focus fired, hang back and lob shells I suppose and my favourite is when I get hit broadside some smug Battleship captain does the chat not thinking that a ship has many sides and when encircled it's kind of hard to hide the broadside in a rectangled ship, I do mention the fact a Cruiser isn't round but that is lost in translation.

[txtspeak]

 

there's just about nothing correct in that...

buffing cruiser armour would reduce the amount of overpens they take, while hardly ever being enough to stop a BB shell. So by increasing cruiser armour a bit we'd make them weaker against BB salvoes. (Exception being a buff to bow armour - but making that stronger than on BBs makes just about no sense...)

The 105's are largely incapable of doing shell damage to anything that isnt a DD or two tiers below.

Bismarck secondaries fire HE (which is precisely what makes them good in the first place) - so they do not citadel.

 

then let me reiterate.

buff cruisers BOW armour. and in that case it's probably the 150mm secondaries and I know that at least SOME Secondaries fire AP (hence the damage from secondary AP tab) and I know that each hit did around 2000 damage.

so either New orleans is so garbage that it gets citadelled BOW ON by 150mm HE or I'm missing something pretty big

[rancidpunk]

 

"New orleans is so garbage" you shouldn't base any arguments on it!

 

 

[aboomination]

SOME Secondaries fire AP

 

German BB tier 3-6 have such secondaries. Also IJN in general ;)

[AUT_Znarf]

We should NOT nerf BB guns against cruisers, we should generally buff cruiser armour.

getting citadelled bow on by the Bismark's 105mm secondaries is not fun...

 

which cruiser gets bow overmatch citadelled by 105mm HE ammo? 

[Exocet6951]

 

which cruiser gets bow overmatch citadelled by 105mm HE ammo? 

 

That does sound odd...

 

But in some cases, if the German BB HE shell that "pens" 1/4th of its caliber (because more balance for Germans) hits a cruiser's deck and a part of the citadel sitting high above the waterline in reach of the explosion radius, and the citadel's roof armor is 20mm or less, it could be possible.

 

That's what happens on a few paper thin (13mm at places) British citadels at low tier. 

 

 

Still, that's a fluke shot in a situation that already has very precise sets of conditions.

And it isn't even a bow overmatch.

[meuhbat]

I have 4 nations cruisers lines + 1dd + 1bb so I play mostly cruisers (3x T5 and 1x T6), and I noticed that with my T6 cleveland I was mostly thrown in T8 games where i was the only T6 ship. I try to hump islands but still get focused by all the bismarks/tirpitz and gneis I can hardly harm at range.

and as someone said, the lack of CVs is an issue for CLs like the cleveland relying on AA to be useful in high tier battles.

[txtspeak]

"New orleans is so garbage" you shouldn't base any arguments on it!

 

 

 

fair point

[Fizzy_Odin]

I also play mostly Cruisers, i bakc to the game after close/open beta only to see that cruisers are instult to injury now becuse 6m ago they were good ships in balance with others, now DD will go for gun kill on Kirov and other paper cruisers t5 and some t6 so how the f**k are cruiser in balance ??

 

BB will one shot you and you can't one shoot DD 3km away from you

t5 and above Russian and Poland DD will spam you in cruiser and give you 1-2000. dam every hit and put fire on your deck and when you mange to hit DD with full salvo HE 3x3 gun you will deal him like 2700-4300 dam wtf ???

you see BB in fight with some other BBs ect and you spam him with like 30-50 hit and set him on fire 5-7 times and than when he is finished with "more important ship" he looke at you and baaaaam  double citadel and 20.000 gone - on like 15km away,  or you see BB point at you and you have to go toward him beause if you try tu go away you will show him broadside only for moment and you are out of game in that time some other BB will see you and bye bye..

 

So YES we Cruiser captains of T5 and above cruiser need better armor and we need repair like BB have and Brit cruisers

[Dirty_Filthy_Scrublord]

Go sail in the RN cruisers for a while, you`ll stop moaning about craparmor and taking max damage from every shell that hits you....."seems" not to be anywhere near as much of a problem in other nations cruisers. The heal that RN cruisers get is as powerful as it is because they take HUGE damage no matter what hits you, regardless of angling. A mega heal does not make up for taking a 38k salvo from a battleship(not always a citadel hit needed to do huge damage). Cruisers in general are the weakest ship class by far in the hands of the average player(and yes I am average).

MM will forever crapon carriers and cruisers when they get uptiered, destroyers cope pretty well with a +2 tier range as do battleships.

[Jhase]

I have mostly played cruisers, and the grind got worse as I got better, and higher. Tier 9 is just brutal. I often felt helpless, but I didn't understand how insignificant cruisers feel until I started playing german BBs. I just see them as a nuisance/xp pinata. Usually only good players can cause problems. And I feel they can't really hunt dd's, just deny areas from them. Having said that, BB dispersion nerf is not the way to go I feel, nor is restricting their MM (it feels like a backwards way of trying to solve the underlying larger problem). Don't know what that would be, though.

[HMS_Antelope]

Go sail in the RN cruisers for a while, you`ll stop moaning about craparmor and taking max damage from every shell that hits you....."seems" not to be anywhere near as much of a problem in other nations cruisers. The heal that RN cruisers get is as powerful as it is because they take HUGE damage no matter what hits you, regardless of angling. A mega heal does not make up for taking a 38k salvo from a battleship(not always a citadel hit needed to do huge damage). Cruisers in general are the weakest ship class by far in the hands of the average player(and yes I am average).

MM will forever crapon carriers and cruisers when they get uptiered, destroyers cope pretty well with a +2 tier range as do battleships.

 

Hi 

 

This isn't a moan post it's trying to test opinion on the current state of Cruisers.  I have the Edinburgh so T8 so far and yes they are difficult to play but rewarding under the right circumstances.  My point really is that Cruisers seem very situational in the game with some maps they do well and contribute and others not so much.

 

I can play Battleships and average 60k plus damage and a couple of kills but I don't enjoy that so much.  I like Destroyers but I really want to play Cruisers but it's very difficult at the moment, so thanks for the comment but please don't think it's a moaning session.

[HMS_Antelope]

I have mostly played cruisers, and the grind got worse as I got better, and higher. Tier 9 is just brutal. I often felt helpless, but I didn't understand how insignificant cruisers feel until I started playing german BBs. I just see them as a nuisance/xp pinata. Usually only good players can cause problems. And I feel they can't really hunt dd's, just deny areas from them. Having said that, BB dispersion nerf is not the way to go I feel, nor is restricting their MM (it feels like a backwards way of trying to solve the underlying larger problem). Don't know what that would be, though.

 

That's a good description as T9 is really tough for the Baltimore for example, no smoke torps etc some maps I just try to do as much damage as possible and catch the odd Destroyer or Cruiser of guard.  I was hoping you would have an alternative idea though.

 

My acid test would be how easy is it to destroy a Battleship as they have the best armour and guns in the game, a Fletcher for example finds it straight forward to kill bb's perhaps the Ibuki can stealth torp and BBQ and the Roon has good bow armour and can play chicken with its torps.  These encounters however don't happen in a bubble and if other combatants are around it usually doesn't end well.

[Spuggy]

I never see an issue until I reach tier 8. Tier 8 is a really difficult place for cruisers. Battleships are easy. Destroyers are easy. But if you want double hard bastard mode, drive a tier 8 cruiser

[Lord_Holland_of_Wessex]

I play cruisers mostly.  Voted no to both as neither are the answer.  I think cruisers should have a credit and or exp. bonus to encourage people to play more or just buff them.

[_cosmo]

God, just came from another thread asking for cruiser heals...  

lord_holland's ideea seems the best. Better armor will just mean we all play scarnhorst. But better rewards might be a nicer incentive to players while allowing the same gameplay. Or we'll all see bow on ships facing menacingly at eachother whille firing the 2front turrets. Talk about static games. 

[viceadmiral123]

Every class should have a limit, not only CVs. This would fix the cruiser issue, but WG doesn't want 10+ minute queue times for the popular BB class.

[HMS_Antelope]

God, just came from another thread asking for cruiser heals...  

lord_holland's ideea seems the best. Better armor will just mean we all play scarnhorst. But better rewards might be a nicer incentive to players while allowing the same gameplay. Or we'll all see bow on ships facing menacingly at eachother whille firing the 2front turrets. Talk about static games. 

 

Hi Cosmo

 

Thanks for the reply.  If you had read the post it wasn't about complaining it is what's happening in the game and the player base's opinion.  You mention static games and I think it would be boring like for example 8 Battleships and 4 destroyers, so maybe by improving the lot of a Cruiser captain then the game keeps it's mix of ship types and we enjoy a diverse environment.

 

We could just cry salty tears and complain or we could be productive and make suggestions.  I also like the suggestion about XP/Credits.

 

Thanks

[Myrmix]

If you make BBs weaker against cruisers, they wouldn't have a hardcounter.
BBs are raped when a DD gets into 5km range and torps.

Cruisers are raped when showing side for too long.

 

If you make BBs inefficient against cruisers, they could easily defeat BBs 1vs1 because of their combination of mobility and damage over time (and fire)...most even got torps.

As far as I know, cruiser-damage is already much more rewarding than BB, and you still have the mobility to get in positions, a BB can't, depending on nation.

See cruisers as glasscannon-dps.

If you give them too much survivability, they will rape anything (could you imagine Des Moines with armor like Hindenburg or survivability like japanese BBs?)

[Lord_Holland_of_Wessex]

How about captain skills specific to ship classes only or you can chose lower down the captain skill tree..  At the moment you have captain skills that only a carrier captain would pick.  However you could have perhaps jack of all trades available, for example to cruiser captain's at a lower captain skill tier, say 3.  Heaven forbid I suggest superintendent for cruisers captains only.  These are just some examples of some ideas I have been thinking through.  There may be of course some captain skills that battleship captain's or destroyer captains may think should be specific to their class. TBH I would like to see captain skills overhauled, I mean some of level 5 ones you would never go for after investing that much time training up that captain.  However I do believe that perhaps captain skills may be a way to buff cruisers without needing a lot of work.