Destroyers sunking battleships with artillery

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

it's highly annoying to not see what is firing at you. From really close range. 

[MoveZig]

Historical arguments don't hold much water in an arcadey game like this. There do exist super-involved strategy games that model vehicles accurately. They are slow and have a huge learning curve and a very niche playerbase. They are not WoWS.

[Spellfire40]

it's highly annoying to not see what is firing at you.

 

So are planes and torpedos so nerf anything that can hurt BB.  

 

Im at Izumo/NC/Gneisenau and i have little problems with DDs If I play smart. Dont means they never sink me If my team dies too fast or i do mistake as it should. but perhaps having also Fletcher/Shima/Tashkent helps me to understand the limitations of both sides better.

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

You did concentrate on the wrong side of discussion.
The only problem that I got is detectability of DD when they are firing at you with main guns not with torpedoes or anything like it. It is strange to get hit alot from close range by somthing that you can't see.

Its simple as that.

[Spellfire40]

You did concentrate on the wrong side of discussion.
The only problem that I got is detectability of DD when they are firing at you with main guns not with torpedoes or anything like it. It is strange to get hit alot from close range by somthing that you can't see.

Its simple as that.

 

i do not because detectability ties into survivability for any non RU DD (and they are basically insanely fast CL without Citadels). If they can fire at you undetected nobody spotting for you is near or you are out of position. with 2eddarys outranging Torpedorange in cases from t8 up DD need a Tool to do damage as a BBs main counter.

[mikelight1805]

Now I finally see really good argument. Grow up a bit. 
For a second time - All I'm saing is to increase detectability of DD abowe it's fire range when they are firing nothin more right now its simply can fire at you without any risk if the are carefull enough which gives them an advantage they shouldn't have. 

 

If you do this, the game will become world of battleships. Just like world of tanks became world of heavy tanks after the light tank nerfs. DDs rely on stealth to survive any length of time. The number of ships that can effectively stealth fire is already quite low. If the DD is in smoke, then stick with a radar or good hydro cruiser. If not, just charge him. I was chased by a Blyskawica in my Gneisenau. i got bored of being stealth fired, so i turned on him and blew him away with HE. DDs wont face you if fight on your terms

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

Ok let's leave this I don't want to argue about it that is not the point.

 I'm not telling to nerf DD's some of them are to stealth 

[Lightbaron]

Nerfing the ability to stealth-fire equals nerfing the ship itself.

Go look at warships.today or some other stat page and compare the average damages of the different ship classes.

You will notice that BBs and CVs are dealing the most damage.

Take away stealth-fire ability from the DDs you don't like and that gap between BBs and DDs will only widen.

And there appears the next problem then: Why play a class that doesn't feel rewarding or allows you to deal damage properly?

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

Do we play worships as they ara today what a great argument. Make them invisible let's go this way further and give all the battleships

torps and smoke screens.

 It's ridiculous.

Destroyer was always about speed and maneuverability not stealth.

 

[Lightbaron]

 

Warships.today is a dedicated WoWs stats page and has nothing to do with modern warships and their use.

If you were to go to said page and compare the average damage of ships by tier you would notice that DDs are already dealing a lot less damage than BBs on average.

E.g. Izumo has a 60k average on damage. (Last 2 weeks average damage)

The DDs on the same tier are Udaloi at 45.8k, Fletcher at 40.9k and Kagerou at 34.4k. (Last 2 weeks average damage)

 

And here you are and ask for DDs to get nerfed so that they deal even less damage than they already do.

This is an arcade game, not a simulator.

DDs can't face BBs with speed and maneauverability alone, that's why they got stealth too.

DDs without stealth are a dead class almost nobody would want to play.

You ask for them to get killed which will result in CAs and CLs dying too because they are easy and nice targets for BBs and lose a big part of their usefullness without DDs around.

Personally I'm here to play WoWs and not WoBB and as the replies in this thread show I'm not alone with that.

 

Your only DD is Campbeltown at t3 where newbies are around and sail in straight lines for minutes.

If you had grinded a single higher tier DD you would know how painful it can be to play them when good BB players are around which change their speed and direction often and make you miss more than 90% of your torps.

But since your problem are the guns you should try RU DDs and learn how hard it can be to find a lone target (not to forget that you can't stealth shoot without CE on most/all of them) with no CA or enemy DD around that you can shoot and burn down as that DD player did with you.

Also unlike citadel and AP damage you can repair fire damage to 100%. Even if you are only 27kt fast and he has over 30kt speed you should be able to get to your teammates easy enough for them to support you except they are already dead or your positioning is so horrible that one has to ask what you were doing there in the first place.

[SinkTheOthersNotMe]

Another 'I play BB only' player who is crying.....

 

Start by improving your BB playstyle -> then I suggest the OP starts playing other classes too and then come back to post.

Nerf DD more?

OK I am fine if you remove the guns from my DD if you give me more steath and serious torps with good range + speed....

 

Play a bit DD before crying here....Been detonated 3 times in my DD (I am short of Detonation flags) by BB while on a torpedo run today -> how is that fair when the noob BB did not even manage to hit me single time while I was approaching and just got lucky once?

 

On the other hand, when I play my BB:

- I always try to keep a screen of DD/CA/CL

- I follow those same DD/CA/CL so that they do not die too fast

- I always keep track of where enemy DD are

 

You end up alone in your BB?

You messed up, probably thought sniping was a good idea (and let your DD/CA die) or you went alone thinking you are a mighty invincible DD -> big mistake and you deserve to die.....

 

And about being BBQ'ed -> how do you expect a Kiev-Nicolas and so on to deal dmg .....

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

 

First of all I'm not crying (saying that is just rude and pathetic).

Second I like that Campbeltown it's nice ship with unusual history.

Third if you give something to one class of ships why you dont give it to all and all of us will be invisible (ridiculous thought).

Fourth being an arcade game that's not mean that it can be more realistic (bit more).

Fifth I don't want to nerf the DD's like I said before but it should be looked.

Sixth maybe the stats are lower for DD's simply because most of them are charging at enemy with full speed not being to cautious (it is a fragile ship).

 

 

[El2aZeR]

Well, if you don't want DDs to be nerfed then everything is just fine right now, right? A lot of more experienced people here have looked at your suggestion and determined that what you're suggesting is rubbish (I agree btw), thus you should be satisfied now, no?

 

A lot of DDs rely on their guns (entire SN tree, arguably entire or at least half of the US tree, new IJN tree will as well I think), taking away the ability to stealth fire MEANS NERFING THEM. Whether or not this is realistic is completely irrelevant. Any cruiser with good shell arcs and speed (read: SN) will get you from default or even AFT range of any gun DD.

Also BBs should be able to stealth fire with both range upgrade and spotter? Never tried that tbh. I don't see you complaining about stealth firing cruisers, either.

 

There are plenty of potatoes dragging down BB stats as well. Your argument regarding that makes no sense. And ofc Campbeltown of all DDs is representative of general DD gameplay .

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

Why it is so difficult to read with understanding. I never said anything about cruisers.
I really regret that I start with this topic I will never take look on this forum again. 
I feel like most of responses are not discussion but simply personal and not objective. 
It's like I will try to explain colours to blind person.

I really wish there will be more mature people here which are not aiming to insult anyone. 
For me that is it I'm done with this forum.

I will not feed the trolls.

 

[El2aZeR]

You should probably consider that when everyone lines up against you, maybe YOU'RE wrong?

 

I mean, I think all of us understood you quite clearly. You do not want DDs to be able to shoot at you while staying concealed, that's fine. But you haven't even brought up a single good argument why they should not be able to do so. In fact all you have said so far is "they should not be able to do that" and "it's not realistic" (both of which can be and have been dismissed easily). You insist on not wanting to nerf DDs, yet this would be a huge blow to a lot of them. Really if anyone is not making any sense here it's you.

 

I've honestly yet to see a personal insult being thrown against you in this thread, but then again I've only skimmed through and might have missed it.

[Zathras_Grimm]

Sylwester_75, the fact is there aren't that many ships that can fir in stealth. Learn and keep away, just like a DD has to with Radar; a DD isn't exactly a HP monster yet spotters, fighters, CV aircraft, Hydro and Radar all pick them up making them shell magnets (even from the other side of the map). Is that fair?

 

Well it seems to be adding up a fair bit lol, but that is the game.

 

Adapt your playstyle, most ships have a nemesis, yours is the stealth fire one.

[rage1750]

Come on, a whole page without one "Show me on this model, where that bad DD touched your battleship"? You disappoint me!

 

PS.: The first one who post it, gets a like from me.

 

Poop deck I say is most likely 

[G3Virus]

OP should learn to play DD realy.

 

I started out playing BB's, that was hard, wrong line to some extent since it require some of the best gunnery BUT once that is learned it helps on other lines to.

 

Started to play DD's secondly and well I LOVE it!.

 

Nowadays I got an almost even 50/50 split of DD and BB play in thousand of matches since they are my favourite classes of ships.

 

And I have NO problems with killing DD's or holding them of as a BB player.

 

In fact like many have sad, if you get killed by a DD its your own fault.

Lack of situational awareness and going solo yolo gets you killed like you described.

I play some invisi firing DD's and its not THAT easy to find a solo target, all that is required is a DD or CC close enough to spot you when firing since you have to consider other shipst then just the targets range to you.

I rarely feel I was killed in a way that was out of my control in any class of ship, detonations being the exception realy.

 

If a DD can invisi fire and kill you your WAY out of position.

 

Also running away is not always the solution, most players just react to a situation they cant control, that gets you killed.

Instead taking the initiative and ACTING will help you stay alive and win by forcing the opponent to react to you.

 

If your alone, cant run away well then draw the DD in to a position where you can turn around and charge him and force him to either break of the attack or give his position away when you get close enough to detect him when he fires then you can kill him.

Yea BB's can onshoot a DD and even AP works well tough HE is usually better with some exceptions.

 

But DD's dont need a nerf, if anything WG has been nerfing them plenty, nerfed torp rang, no ship can use CE to lower invisi firing range anymore and DD's and some Crusiers are mostly effected by that.

BB's get better armore models and armore and lower waterlines and AA etc etc all the dam time. Sure some might need it but DD's is the once getting nerfs, BB's are relative immune to that so far.

With the new IJN DD split we might see torp nerfes again and even gun nerfs basically splitting a DD line that was good in to two crap lines.

 

As a DD and a BB player with thousands of matches I can say the fault lies with you.

Get some DD gamplay under your belt because if you DONT play other classes you will learn MUCS slower how to play BB's properly.

Play other classes and you will be a better BB player, I know for a fact that this works, I hate cruisers BUT I play them and I learn a lot about there configurations and tactics that I can use that against them when playing as a BB or a DD.

 

I erased every DD (3) and a CV with my BB in a match, cost me my life but after that the enemy team had ZERO scouts, my team steamrolled them hard and I knew I was because of me.

BB's are surprisingly good DD hunters if you know how a DD plays.

 

You can NOT play one class only and expect to learn how to play that class when you know little to nothing about the other classes then the very basics attributes they share.

Its a simple fact that you have to know your enemy to be effective against them or else you can not develop tactics to counter them if you dont know there way of playing.

[ColonelPete]

it is ridiculous that destroyer can sunk battleship with artillery. There is also no way of sinking a ship by fire it can and should only significantly lower
its battle efficiency.

 

The only ridiculous thing is a BB player to whom that happens regularly.

 

Have you ever heard in the real world about destroyers sinking BB with artillery?  Just be realistic it can only happen with torpedoes and that how it supposed to be.

There's only way to balance this when DD opens fire its range of detectability shuld be realy significantly increased becouse its simply impossible

to try defend yourself agains't something that you can't see.

This is a game, not real life.

Unless you want to play hours for one match and have a hit ratio of 2% instead of around 30%.

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

I did write about on time that this thing happen to me.
And all of you are saying that it has to by my fault that I couldn't see that ship because

I got separated or some other circumstances. 
That is game mechanics and that how it's.

If some one will change it or not it's not up to me and honestly I don't care. 
The argument about being a arcade game - it isn't "Tetris". 
It is my opinion on that matter, you can disagree with it but it doesn't change my right to have it. 
You are saying that I should play more DD's and see how it is.
If you like it go on spend 100% of your time on DD's it is yours and only yours choice.
I can only say that I was always fascinated by big ships.

I have read about sea battle tactics a lot from sailing ships to latest naval battles

and I find that amout of  inexactness (at some cases it is 100% opposite that it supposed to be), higly annoying.

So please stop saying about tactics in the game there isn't any in it it is only about firing at opposing force. 
I will repeat - It is my opinion and I have right to have it.

[ColonelPete]

 

So please stop saying about tactics in the game there isn't any in it it is only about firing at opposing force. 
 

That is what bad players say. All good players disagree.

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

That is what bad players say. All good players disagree.

 

That is a good one .
If "good" players agree with you that makes it true, simple as that.

And that criteria make me a bad player ?

Maybe you can show me some naval battle tactics on YouTube (from WoW game play).
I will be happy to see it
I freaking love it.

 

[ColonelPete]

 

If "good" players agree with you that makes it true, simple as that.

And that criteria make me a bad player ?

 

No, that criteria:

Win rate
Next level: Average (+1.9%) 47.14%
Below Average

http://wows-numbers.com/player/508402046,Sylwester_75/

 

WG map tactics:

[Puzur_Inshushinak]

So that makes me a bad player good to know.

Its realy funny you know becouse I know that I'm not the best player but also not the worst, so do you.
Deal with it and grow up. 
Why are you posting WG map tactics.
It has nothing to do with naval battle tactics and is completely irrelevant.
I wrote exactly "from a game play", not some crap like this.

If you dont have a proper argument why are you even trying.

[ColonelPete]

Map tactics are gameplay tactis...

They are talking about where to go where better not to go (depending on ship).

But feel free to enter at youtube: Word of Warships tactics

Even you should be able to do it.