ARP Takao? nah, prepare for the ARP Nachi pain

[hjsteg]

 

No, I did not say that you would need to have a ship of tier 8 for every nation.  I said it would be better if you were the one to select the ship (nation) to do kills with. Then it would be you controlling the mission, not depending on the matchmaking hoping you get targets on the enemy side for you to kill. I assume most of us have US, German, Japanese ships up to a certain tier. And many Ru ships too. On the RU server you can do the Nachi mission with tier IV and in co-op. That is totally unfair to what we get on EU. But it is difficult to set some requirement that everybody finds fair.

 

I checked the server population on EU for tier VI to tier X. Source: https://eu.warships.today/vehicles

Nation, number of games and percentage for last two weeks: 

Commonwealth	4207	0%
France:	19937	1%
Germany:	788509	27%
Japan:	857364	29%
Pan asia:	19143	1%
Poland:	22656	1%
UK:	180724	6%
RU	280753	10%
USA	761856	26%
Total	2935149	100%

So RU is only 10% of ships played, and is supposed to be 25% of kills for the Nachi mission. I call that very unfair and unbalanced. Even if including all the other nations like Commonwealth, Pan Asia, Poland and UK they would only be 19% of ships in a typical battle. And if we count only tier 8 to 10 RU ships are 9%, even worse.

 

 

[orlathebeast]

what i've become

[EdiJo]

@Ranyxx

 

Again, one of WG's goals in setting the requirements may have specifically been to increase the number of high-tier games.  But, no one has been "forced" in to doing so.  Players who absolutely have to have this free pixel ship may *choose* to play the high-tier ships to accomplish the mission.  It's completely up to the individual player.  Really detest the T9-T10 matches? Then don't play them.  So what if you don't get the reward?

 

The reward is T7 ship, hence requirements should be adequate for T7 ships. By "forced" you of course should understand "forced if want the reward".

 

And, again, "should" in YOUR opinion.  WG is under no obligation to offer us any missions at all let alone to ensure that their conditions for successful completion meet your expectations.

 

And, again, "should" not in "my opinion", but "should if doesn't intend to spoil their users fun. Which should be (and I understand, is) WG priority, not some temporary "increase number of high-tier games".

 

Yes, I can disagree with what YOU feel the "definition of fitting" means.

 

Nope, you can't disagree with a definition. 7=7 and you can't discuss that without redefining everything else too, sorry. 

 

Maybe I missed your posts where you were outraged by the fact that you couldn't earn one of the numerous T2-T3 premium ships WG has offered in the past by having to play T4 or greater ships?

 

I am not sure about which missions you are talking about, but it has not much to do with our discussion here, because T4 requirements can be met by ANY even NEW player with some dedication, very easily. Not comparable to T8+ missions at all, because to jump a line from T7 to T8 (not to mention T9-T10) requires WEEKS of grinding and a load of credits.

No, it is you who should adjust your "perspective".  I guarantee you that I have not paid one cent to convert XP to Free XP.  It is, IMO, the worst "bang for your buck" in the game.  If I do not have enough Free XP accumulated to instantly upgrade a new ship, then I simply don't play it until I have earned enough by regularly playing my other ships. Why should I?  

 

Eeee, it was you who told me "I have access to" my Tashkent, Orleans, and Amagi - and the answer is: for the mission, remember?
I didn't convert XP either, but fortunately I had enough, which is not the case for many users who want to complete this T7 mission.

 

It would simply take longer to accumulate the needed Free XP.  So what?  I'm patient.

 

Sorry, the mission has specific time limit, no time to be patient. 

 

It is YOUR opinion that the requirements are "absurdly high". 

 

Nope. Having playable specific ship classes in T8 or needing hefty T9-T10 fleet is absurdly high requirement for a T7 mission, objectively. Arguments: all previous ARP missions in EU were at most T7 (same as cruisers given as rewards), and on all other server requirements are much lower (T4-T6). Just compare numbers: time&money needed to grind the required ships, time needed to fulfill the mission itself. It is just math, so please stop calling facts "opinions", otherwise you can equally well say that stating that the Earth is not flat is just my "opinion".

 

I will not waste my time looking at the stats.  

 

Too bad for you, because it could give you some view on what you are talking about

 

May I offer a suggestion to you?  Perhaps you should spend less time looking at stats pages and the forums and use that time playing the game.

 

Oh thanks for such an insight. But to be able to distinguish between "my opinions" and "facts" I like to actually check what's going on outside of my own account.

 

Indeed, I would argue that one of WG's primary goals in offering missions is to increase the number of games played.  So, in your case, "mission accomplished".

 

If "mission designers" really think that such a forced short-term increase is "WG's primary goal" they should be fired immediately, because intentionally doing harm is much worse than making a mistake. However I just think you're wrong here.
Sure, they would like to increase number of games played, specifically on high tiers, but their primary goal is still to maintain happy playerbase - lowering requirements for Takao confirms that.

 

So, in your case, "mission accomplished".

 

Not "in my case", but generally, because number of players almost doubled in high tiers on the whole server, and not "mission accomplished", because for example NA stats confirm that once the mission is over, game numbers go back to the previous level. Or even below. Direct effect of grinding the missions is not permanent - but enraging & discouraging people is more a long-term issue. That's one lesson you get from "looking at stats", ya know.

 

Dude, speaking as someone with an advanced degree in astrophysics whose specialty relies heavily upon statistical analysis.

 

Wow. Someone gave you a PhD in astroph/statistics and you claim that <0.01% success rate in first 12-days is perfectly fine for a mission which ~10-20% of playerbase can easily do in 3-4 weeks on average? Pity that EU is still "computing" on maplesyrup, let's wait for facts then.

 

I can confidently say that your belief that there should be "much much more players" sporting the Nachi already relies upon too many presumptions.

 

Loove that you're so confident, without giving any meritorics. Some arguments, please? There is no significant cutoff in minimal time spent on the mission, it is more or less random - ideally you can meet 3-4 ruskies in a game and kill'em all, so it can take you as short as ~5 games to have 20 kills. So it starts at 100 minutes. After that you have something resembling normal distribution. Skewed to some extent, because we all know MM is not that random. But 12 days is much longer time than 100 minutes, and it would be way enough to get more than 0.01% (integrated!) if "1/day" claim is really true.

 

One may accomplish a difficult task without concentrating on it. 

 

That simply means that the task was not difficult to do (probability of random meeting the requirement was high enough). For an astrophysicist "with statistics specialty" you have really loose approach to logic.

 

You have a choice.  It's always nice to have a choice, right?  You can simply give up on the mission and go back to playing T3-T7 games so that you have more fun. 

 

Well, so my "choice" is either to go back to T3-T7 and not have the fun because of stupid T8+ requirements which denied me having all ARPs (and I am so close to it...), OR not have the fun grinding T8+ to get the mission done. Both choices not funny, sorry.

 

My suggestion is to continue to play more T8 matches with the idea of playing to improve your gameplay and enjoy the game.

 

I improve "my gameplay" also in lower tiers - and I would really enjoy the game if someone doesn't require me to play T8-T10 in order to complete the T5-T7 ship set. It is not ranked gaming, those missions were not for elite only.

 

I think someone is suffering from an inferiority complex. 

 

Thanks for a diagnosis, Doctor - but I'm just playing lower & medium tiers and I like it. Don't feel the urge to get to T10, I rather prefer to explore new ship line than to grind some particular one "to the end". I somewhat enjoy T8, but it is mostly when there is no +/-2 MM which i think should be reduced to +/-1 for ALL tiers.

 

"Every average paying or non-paying Joe with reasonably-more-than-average effort should be able to complete the missions assuming he is at tier level of the ships offered as the reward."  See, if you remember my previous post, I actually agree with this.  But, and here's the distinction that you seem to have trouble making, I understand that that is simply an OPINION that I happen to share.  There is no formal law, expressed rule or even accepted norm that states WG is obligated to agree!

 

Nice that you agree (although your argumentation about "my choice" makes it look otherwise) - and "accepted norms" are quite obvious. All is derived from one simple rule: WG is supposed to give their users FUN. Because some users pay for it, and because some users support the game by participating in it.
You don't need to write a code for it, rest is just logic. Everything which causes players to have less fun, is wrong, and should be changed.

 

I know of the multitude of ways nerfs can be applied whether directly or indirectly.  However, one thing that they have generally been consistent on is showing great restraint in actually nerfing the premium ship/tank's characteristics.  They generally only do so in extreme cases and are very reluctant to do it even then because they understand their customers do not appreciate changing the purchased item after it has been purchased.  In other businesses, this is generally recognized as a case of fraudulent behavior.

 

Yes, it is obvious. However, I commented because if you point that direct nerf "is the only thing that bothers you", it just doesn't have much sense - indirect nerfs may be more harming to your fun with your premium. Quite good example in WoWS is the Murmansk.

 

"Expect".  There's that sense of entitlement rearing its ugly head again. 

 

Yup. Either paying client or "freely" supporting player can expect from a game admins not to spoil his fun, and actually to do the "game support" job.
Nothing ugly here, man.

 

 

[Jvd2000]

I feel worn out. Still 15 Russian kills to go even after a very heavy increase of games played. Games fully focused on kills, quick ending non interesting games (aka no targets available). So either continue this madness until i get to the magic20 kills (with final goal not guaranteed) playing unpleasant games in a unpleasant environment.  Or decide that, even that i would like to have a full collection, its not worth to have WG ruin my free time with things that I do not want to go through...

 

I will never try to get the Flint because I lack the skills & time investment. So thats fine, i dont do the effort, i dont get the Flint. But the Nachi is not supposed to be a Flint like " only for elitists" ship.  ARP Nachi's given out on other servers easy peasy. All the other ARP ships on the EU server are obtainable (either in the past or now) with still a achievable and reasonable requirements. Even the Takao (being an almost free Atago) is handed out on a relative easy basis. WG changed the ARP Takao requirement after some feedback but in contrary refuse to do something about ARP Nachi. I am sure there are other business like reasons for WG that have higher priority then players satisfaction.

 

As a player I can not make WG to change the requirement. They already stated both in the German and English forum that they will not.

 

But i am a very p*ssed off client due the the ARP missions.

 

1.) I feel manipulated. I have free xp-ed a tier 9 cruiser (including purchasing doublouns) to fulfill the initial ARP Takao mission just to find out it lowered afterwards. I have the feeling WG always planned to do so but wanted to entice some people to spent real money to get to tier 9...Proof? No. Bad feelings? yes.

 

2.) I feel lied to. The entire refund credits for ARP ships already owned debacle. Earlier this year, when you got a ARP ship for the second time, you were rewarded with a port place and a credit refund for the ARP ship you already had. At the start of the november ARP missions, after players complained, WG initialy reported that it was a bug that there was no financial refund for ship doubles. It would be rectified.Then it was again said that it was intentional (no credits refund) but as a bonus we could keep a port slot (which already was part of the deal). And no I dont care about the credits or whether we are not entitled or not. Fact is that they LIED! As a costumer i dont accept that from my supplier of services. If they said no money refund from day one i would have though " shame about the credits" but no problem...

 

3.) I feel disrespected. The treatment of EU is far worse then all other regions. Complains are wiped under the carpet. Forcing me to do unjustifiable tasks totally indifferent of common sense (and against better judgment learning from the past, remembering the initial ARP Myoko missions were you had to kill 30 dd's) and WG is not even trying to hide their ignorance...

 

I hope WG will chance its attitude. Nothing more for me to rant and further ignore this mission less i get to waste more leisure time in an unpleasant way...

 

As a costumer I can only vote one way. I will vote with my wallet, deciding not to spend my money on a company that disregards so much its costumers.

 

 

 

 

[ScratxNeko]

just out of curiosity what ships did you use in the end?

 

IIRC, while it was still tier 9+ for Takao I used Zao while solo, Ibuki while divisioned with a friend who lacks a tier 10. Then it got dropped down to tier 8 so I was free to Atago and Bismarck (when I finally unlocked it). Those were the main ships I used, though I also played the Roon and Fubuki. Probably an Amagi match or two, but not important.

 

Once I got Takao, however, I set her up differently from my Atago and went on a fun rampage. Suffice to say she's ridiculously surprised me in the new build and outperformed my Atago build by a fair margin. Even while being technically at a disadvantage due to having an inferior captain AND not having access to camos. I got Nachi with her.

 

I did get some lucky streaks nailing russian ships, but it's also due to the fact that with Atago/Takao I use Hydro and actively hunt down DDs... nailing russian DDs made it much easier for me to get the mission done. (it's not like I have real AA to boost with defensive fire anyways...)

[Thunderbird_6]

Whether you are the hunter or the hunted, this mission is fun cancer.

 

 

[Querulous]

Indeed, Last few days being super aware of Russian ships, you can easily see how players are playing "badly" to get even a chance of a Russian ship. Its annoying also to be blinded by the self same need. Several times I have seen a Russian ship and just gone for it.... with others. Then post battle, realise others were actually doing even worse kamikaze one target above everything play and never hit anything else by the looks of it.

Hunted though can be fun, increase your WR by leading people astray. so its a good time to be Russian if you are cautious.

[Raziel_Walker]

7 battles yesterday where my only goal was to kill a russian, 1 kill as result.

About 150 battles since the ARP missions became available resulting in 8 kills so far.

[Kastike]

  I've given up this mission. Sure make missions hard, I got no complaints about that, but making a mission which is by design making already very rarely played nation even worse by making them priority targets, is just bad mission design.

I've played at least 150 matches in this month which is far more than I should've played, seen about 40 or so russians in enemy team and gotten 2 of 'em down. In last 2 days I've seen one Kutuzov, who got nailed by BBs before my cruiser got into range. You know that there is something wrong when you get the secondaries mission done with a friggin' cruiser before this one.

 

  I don't mind if they won't change mission requirements, but I would like WG to finally learn that "Kill <insert nation / number> ships" missions are terrible idea. They just take priority over actual set of goals in matches. Please, never ever make missions like this one.

[Querulous]

Sounds about right !

[hjsteg]

I went after a Buddy yesterday with my Kutuzov. Managed to kill it just seconds before being torped to death. Was very aware of the fact that it was almost guaranteed suicide to do that. But doing so increased my kills on RU ships to 5. Was totally worth it. It is totally crazy that Wargaming designs missions like this. It f$@?s up the gameplay. Before that I had gone a week hunting RU kills without success.

 

Can Wargaming do anything to help us with the Nachi mission? They have said they will not change the mission requirement. If failing to do so, how about a fat special for RU ships with regards to increasing population of tier 6 and above in game. Then we could see an inrush of RU ships to make it possible to get those damn 20 kills. As now 10% or less is RU. And they are all focused hard.

[Seeigel]

This mission is the most frustrating for me.

 

Until now, every mission was more or less doable and most of the time dependent on you. If you played better, it was easier to achieve the damage required, the gunhits, torpedohits, maybe ship kills. Often you did some kind of progess just by playing a game.

Sinking a specific shiptype was already a pain, but doable. If you needed to kill DDs, you just grab one yourself and rush the enemy DD. They were not so focused like the russians and much more in numbers.

But with this mission, you start a game, you see: no russians on the other team and you think: useless battle, I may just quit. The matchmaker denied your progress.

 

There is just nothing you can do to speed up your progress. Not focusing in playing a specific ship type (DD for torpedo hits or BBs for damage missions). Only thing is to play even more and may get lucky to get the killshot.

And thats the most frustrating thing for me. It feels like its all luck.

 

[MrEff]

Got lucky and sunk a Kiev, so that means I have 1 more left to go. Hopefully we'll get a special to encourage people to play the Soviet ships, though I suspect this will be yet another thing that WG and our CM refuse to acknowledge as a problem and once again it'll be down to the community to sort things out.

 

Still with all these people flooding the higher tiers at least they got there wish and will get some nice juicy stats on high tier gameplay to look over. 

[JapLance]

All the rest of ARP missions done... except this one, which stubbornly refuses to get finished.

 

20 games in the last week (I've decided this crap is not going to force me to play what I don't want to play), 0 ships sunk. 2 out of every 3 games have no Russians in sight. My total is 13, but 10 of them were sunk in the first days, when ranked battles were still allowed and the Russians special mission was on.

 

WG EU, you really know how to make things wrong.

 

[Raziel_Walker]

I will be so glad when this mission is over and I can return to trying to improve my play instead of losing money on yolo runs to get a kill. At least I am no longer worried that I won't complete the mission, already halfway.

[MrAllko]

WG should lower the tier requirement to T6. This would significantly increase the RUS kills.

I guess I was lucky to finish Nachi mission in 14 days but damn it was really frustrating to do it.

Now, If I`m not being attacked by RUS ship I dont shoot at it nor do I try to finish them. Also playing at least couple games with my Dmitry to seed some RUS kills.

I know this might not be new for this forum but pls try to help EU community and do the same: dont steal RUS kills if You have the mission done, try to play RUS ships if You have them.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Completed the mission yesterday evening. Had 20/20/19/20 for a while now and failed to get the last Russian ship. Yesterday evening I got a couple of them though.

Now only Kirishima remains. 200 torp hits with Scharnhorst - yay...

[Eviscerador]

Yesterday I got TWO ruskie kills in a single game. That was luck! Only 5 to go!

 

Oh, and 70 torp hits, but I got 65 torp hits with the Benson in the weekend, so I'm confident I will get it as well.

[moomoo2]

I trolled 2 BB and 3 cruisers into the bottom corner of a map with their desperation of killing me. Then I got boost and dropped smoke.

 

The enemy now had 5 ships completely out of the match while I zoomed back in my Tashkent to the centre at 47kts.

 

Lads, it's only a ship with a silly Japanese voiceover. Stop losing your minds chasing Russians around mindlessly.

[deadly_if_swallowed]

It's a free ship (collect it) with a silly Japanese voiceover (collect it) that was not available on EU server before (collect it) that may or may not be available again (so collect it now)

 

[moomoo2]

It's a free ship (collect it) with a silly Japanese voiceover (collect it) that was not available on EU server before (collect it) that may or may not be available again (so collect it now)

There are other ones that play exactly the same. I already have a Myoko from a previous ARP so I doubt it's a one-off.

[Egoleter]

Just had a Khaba before my guns. I did hit it again and again but those last 821 hitpoints it had didn't want to vanish. Damage saturation prevented my 12th RU kill.

 

I congratulated the player in chat for getting away like that. I just hope that the next five weeks will not be filled with more situations like that.

[Tubit101]

Sinking ships as a mission requirement is a bad choice which makes me question whether whoever designed the mission has any experience playing the game. Different ships have different loading rates and some are definitely more "bursty" than others - which makes different ships more/less suited to "kill stealing". Not to mention that the race to seek out and sink these rarely seen Russian ships becomes a disruptive element to random battles. When you start considering that someone thought it was a good choice to disregard that Russian ships are severely underrepresented, the mission requirements become downright obtuse. It's a shame that some missions become an exercise in frustration rather than something that's a fun addition to the game.

 

I've played regularly almost every day since the mission was introduced and I'm still missing 7 Russian ships. It is a mystery why the mission hasn't been adjusted to reflect the low proportion of Russian ships that are being used by players.

[Egoleter]

There are other ones that play exactly the same. I already have a Myoko from a previous ARP so I doubt it's a one-off.

 

It's not the same thing. Because by that logic we wouldn't need a mission for the ship at all, as it is an exact copy of the standard tier VII cruiser that everybody can research.

 

Those missions and rewards are meant to get the players to play. The reward is there, so that the players have a good feeling after spending so much time at the game. Frustrating the players with incredibly hard to achieve mission objectives usually does not help the players to enjoy the game.

[moomoo2]

 

It's not the same thing. Because by that logic we wouldn't need a mission for the ship at all, as it is an exact copy of the standard tier VII cruiser that everybody can research.

 

Those missions and rewards are meant to get the players to play. The reward is there, so that the players have a good feeling after spending so much time at the game. Frustrating the players with incredibly hard to achieve mission objectives usually does not help the players to enjoy the game.

Oh no, you didn't get a Nachi, but you got all the other ships..big whoop. It's not a big deal, it truly is not. I only actually want the Takao as it isn't just another copy in a different colour with a slightly different voice you can't understand.

 

I'm driving a Tashkent, got my Schors out and once I finish grinding the Chappy, I'll go out in that too. I'm doing my part for the obsessed.