cruisers radar is there a counter?

[bosplat]

recently the use of radar on cruisers is making games in a dd more and more frustrating as you keep being detected by radar and because you can't counter it you are spotted as well as any torps you launch meaning they are avoided. surely there has to be a counter to this but i am yet to find one and i have played DD's for a long time and am rather good with them but with the adding of the radar its made any sort of moves useles even at my max torp range i am still being spotted. the radar goes through smoke and islands which is ridiculous now there is always a counter to something in his game but with radar i just can't find one. is anyone else finding the radar to be to over powered

[XbodzioXplX]

But 6 km spot range is normal and good thing?

[aboomination]

Did you run into me today? 

 

 But 6 km spot range is normal and good thing?

 

Yes and yes 

[xxNihilanxx]

Radar is short duration and doesn't spot torps. Learn which cruisers have radar and what the range and duration is for each ship. You should be able to out-spot all of them so never venture closer than the extreme edge of their radar range. Once spotted by radar move instantly out of range and wait the correct amount of time, usually 20-30 secs, then go about your day as normal. It also helps to ask your friendlies to prioritise the radar ships.

 

As a frequent DD player I thought radar would be a serious pain in the arse but it doesn't really affect me that much.

[ilhilh]

Of course there is a counter to cruiser radar - it is called BB shells.

[Durin_VI]

Of course there is a counter to cruiser radar - it is called BB shells.

 

you forgot to mention the magical and ever existing solution; camping behind islands

[HidesHisFace]

recently the use of radar on cruisers is making games in a dd more and more frustrating as you keep being detected by radar and because you can't counter it you are spotted as well as any torps you launch meaning they are avoided. surely there has to be a counter to this but i am yet to find one and i have played DD's for a long time and am rather good with them but with the adding of the radar its made any sort of moves useles even at my max torp range i am still being spotted. the radar goes through smoke and islands which is ridiculous now there is always a counter to something in his game but with radar i just can't find one. is anyone else finding the radar to be to over powered

 

At least for once cruisers do not have to feel like children of a worse god, you know. Heck, if you ask me, every cruiser should get radar, even a crappy one, by default. Defensive AA has questionable utility due to lack of carriers anyway.

 

Cruiser's are supposed to be ships specialized in hunting destroyers and providing general fire support.

Now, with current battleship-filled meta, where you have 5BBs and 4 cruisers in most cases, cruisers are generally XP pinatas for battleships - they can't go toe to toe against their heavy armour, armament and good range. They simply friggin' cant.

 

At the same time, destroyer can still delete a cruiser with torps with no problems at all. This means that cruisers are kind of between hammer and anvil - they have shorter range than BB's, which means they are likely to be the first ships spotted and therefore the first ships to take effective fire. Yet, they lack heavy armour of battleships or smokescreen of DDs. They are by far the most vulnerable class in that regard.

 

Basically - cruisers require radar and sonar to stay relevant in current meta, their versatile armament is no longer enough in BB-filled environment.

 

That being said, there are counters to radar. 

Radar means one thing - as a DD you can no longer afford being stupid and just blindly exploit your low detection range, smoke and invisi-torp potential - you actually have to do one more thing - THINK.

Learn which cruisers have radar - and learn their approximate duration. Unlike sonar, radar tends to have relatively short duration, and DDs are, for the most part, fast and agile enough to "poke" enemy cruisers - force them to use radar, retreat, return when radar wears off.

You may also hide behind islands - it will not save you from being spotted but will save you from enemy fire, and will potentially bait enemy into a bad position if you play it right.

[Panocek]

To start with, only two radar cruisers are actual threat on their own to DDs - Chapayev and Des Moines. Both have reload to saturate DD within radar duration, rest of the cruisers can fire two, max three salvos. With WSAD hax usage and keeping healthy distance (that is around 9km and above from radar cruisers) damage taken should be rather minimal

[_cosmo]

3 - Belfast can make good use of a radar as well, if it's timed well enough. but the solution is simple: bend over, grab your ankles, and wait it out. oh, and hope it's only that one cruiser paying attention. bring lube

[The_Bearded_Clam]

well M8

 

I'm in the same/similar situation as you and everyone else that like to use DDs, the only counter is don't play DDS or only in the low tiers were the Radar "BS" is not implemented, as the introduction of Radar has made WOWS unplayable, how can you have a line of ships that rely on stealth to achieve their goal, in a game that offers little to none, with the introduction of Radar?

 

Received an update today, how odd the isokaze is now slower in turns, post update, and slower to recover speed once the turn is completed,

WG has the same brain-dead attitude toward WOWS as they did to WOWP, nice game at first release, but soon the "nerfs" and "tweak's" started and eureka! a failed game, you may find as many as 1000+ players, playing WOWP on a good day, not bad considering that the population of the EU is in excess of 500 million, it sort of puts WG, as an online game producer into prospective, a Terd, with a ribbon tied around it, is still a Terd,

 

WOWS is a terd in progress, give WG a little more time, they have learned nothing from WOWP, and so, if you do not learn from history, you are ultimately condemned to make the same mistakes,

 

I enjoyed playing WOWS, but the honeymoon period is coming to a close, I don't enjoy playing anymore,

I'll spend my money elsewhere, close the door and turn off the lights, if you are the last one to leave!  

 

 

[aboomination]

Just got a cruiser and BB killed by using radar...maybe you should form an alliance 

 

[Sub_Eleven]

i have played DD's for a long time and am rather good with them

 

And you don't know that radar doesn't spot torpedoes. How are we supposed to take you seriously?? If you really were any good with destroyers, you wouldn't have much troubles with radar.

[daki]

recently the use of radar on cruisers is making games in a dd more and more frustrating as you keep being detected by radar and because you can't counter it you are spotted as well as any torps you launch meaning they are avoided. surely there has to be a counter to this but i am yet to find one and i have played DD's for a long time and am rather good with them but with the adding of the radar its made any sort of moves useles even at my max torp range i am still being spotted. the radar goes through smoke and islands which is ridiculous now there is always a counter to something in his game but with radar i just can't find one. is anyone else finding the radar to be to over powered

 

Occasionally annoying, but not OP (when I play destroyers).

Excellent addition and very useful tool (when I play cruisers)

 

To deal with them I would suggest that you go through several easy points.

 

POINT 1: understand the characteristics of radar consumable:

					SURVEILLANCE RADAR I		SURVEILLANCE RADAR II
					Cost: Free		Cost: 15 OR 22,500
Class or Ship	Tier	Nation(s)	Duration	Detection Range	Cooldown	Charges	Cooldown	Charges
Indianapolis, Atlanta, & Flint	VII	USN	25 seconds	8.49km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3
Belfast	VII	RN	25 seconds	8.49km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3
Cruiser	VIII	RN, USN	30 seconds	9.00km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3
Cruiser	IX	RN, USN	35 seconds	9.45km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3
Cruiser	X	RN, USN	40 seconds	9.90km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3
Cruiser	VIII	VMF	20 seconds	11.70km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3
Cruiser	IX	VMF	20 seconds	11.70km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3
Cruiser	X	VMF	25 seconds	11.70km	180 seconds	2	120 seconds	3

As you can see, mostly USN and VMF cruisers have them. While RN has them, I doubt may will use them since smoke is a much better choice imho.

The main characteristics are relatively short duration and relatively long reload. Which basically means that after use you are safe for quite a bit of time.

 

POINT  2: understand team composition & situational awareness

Always assess the setup of enemy team during loading, or at the start of the match. In most cases you will not have to face more than 1-2 cruisers in enemy team with radar. Even more rarely will you encounter someone who actually knows how to use it.

Successful radar use depends quite a bit on teamwork since the limited duration usually does not allow a lone cruiser to sink the destroyer 1v1 before it expires.

Hence especially beware of divisions which include the radar ship - they will most likely hunt in packs.

You must follow the minimap at all times. If you see a radar capable ship approaching, better keep the distance at around 12km than count on him being on reload or not knowing how to use it. After it is used feel free to get closer.

 

POINT 3: Do not panic!

By far the biggest issue with destroyer captains when lit by radar. If you panic and do stupid moves you will die. If you freeze in one place you will die. If you try to fight and turn to launch those desperate torpedo spreads you will likely die (and miss).

Hence the best strategy is to hit full engine power and engine boost if you have it, and try to always show your stern to incoming salvoes wiggling it to reduce the chance of being hit. Always keep in mind it will not last long.

Usually do not shoot back (unless you are confident you can sink that cruiser) as it is likely that you will be spotted even after the radar expires due to visibility penalty while shooting.

 

POINT 4: Radar does not kill you, shells and torpedoes do

Hence be aware of your surroundings and use the terrain. If lit but the enemy is unable to aim at you, then its a wasted radar charge.

Try to position your smoke closer to islands which you can use to take cover.

 

 

 

[Hedgehog1963]

To start with, only two radar cruisers are actual threat on their own to DDs - Chapayev and Des Moines. 

 

Belfast.

[Admiral_noodle]

Well at least OP started by asking how to adapt. And some people it seems have adapted. I find it disappointing that other people don't like to adapt, apparently fear change and would rather quit the game because their usual style of play is being challenged. Better than a stale game.

 

As a mainly cruiser player I can see the other side. When to use radar? Will it be any use? The fear of wasting it.

 

Suggest one way of learning - play the radar cruisers and know your enemy.

[anonym_CsauhrZtDqUP]

I think the Radar Consumable is overpowered.

 

As far as I'm concerned, this consumable is killing any fun in playing higher tier destroyers.  Everyone knows that random matches can be frustrating, due to lack of communication and bad match making.  Generally speaking though, other players expect destroyers to cap and spot for them.  In my humble opinion, radar is stopping destroyers from performing this role.

 

We all know that players get frustrated when they don't think you're performing your task properly when playing a certain ship type.  Having said that though, I don't have the time or patience to explain why I can't perform a certain task because there's a Belfast equipped ship off to my starboard side. 

 

I'll be perfectly honest, I've only just figured out which ships have radar.  Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if radar had standard specs, but as far I as understand, the range and duration of radar changes from one ship to another, dependant on the country of origin.  This is way to confusing.

 

I understand the need to counter smoke, but personally speaking I think the hydro acoustics consumable was perfectly adequate and there was absolutely no need to add radar into the game.

 

Anyway, I'm sure there are lot's of players who have brought Belfast and Atlanta's who will disagree with me.  I'll say this though, I've got a premium account too.

 

[Juanx]

.  I'll say this though, I've got a premium account too.

 

 

 

 

And now we await the end of that sentence...because there is an end to that right?

 

Keeping the cool for 30 seconds is not that complicated, just dont panic and you will be mostly fine, unless you sit in smoke in the open, then its byebye baby, same for every cruiser that sits in smoke...

[Jethro_Grey]

I think the Radar Consumable is overpowered.

 

 

As far as I'm concerned, this consumable is killing any fun in playing higher tier destroyers.  Everyone knows that random matches can be frustrating, due to lack of communication and bad match making.  Generally speaking though, other players expect destroyers to cap and spot for them.  In my humble opinion, radar is stopping destroyers from performing this role.

 

 

We all know that players get frustrated when they don't think you're performing your task properly when playing a certain ship type.  Having said that though, I don't have the time or patience to explain why I can't perform a certain task because there's a Belfast equipped ship off to my starboard side. 

 

 

I'll be perfectly honest, I've only just figured out which ships have radar.  Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if radar had standard specs, but as far I as understand, the range and duration of radar changes from one ship to another, dependant on the country of origin.  This is way to confusing.

 

 

I understand the need to counter smoke, but personally speaking I think the hydro acoustics consumable was perfectly adequate and there was absolutely no need to add radar into the game.

 

 

Anyway, I'm sure there are lot's of players who have brought Belfast and Atlanta's who will disagree with me.  I'll say this though, I've got a premium account too.

 

 

 

#1 - Necro threaded

#2 - Radar ain't OP if you have situational awareness and keep an eye on the minimap. You can spot all Radar cruisers due to their concealment rating

       The purpose is to keep DDs on their toes and works as a balancing factor

#3 - There are ways to make the security the Radar gives them work for you and against them

 

 

[Skurfa]

Radar is too much in classes not designed to counter DD's....

[Eviscerador]

If you see radar cruisers in front of you, play accordingly. Call the fleet shots on them, flank them, and be patient.

 

DD are like french autoloaders in WoT, they are more dangerous the more they survive.

 

And in case you don't have support in cap and you see a radar cruiser incoming, just leave.

[Nechrom]

#2 - Radar ain't OP if you have situational awareness and keep an eye on the minimap. You can spot all Radar cruisers due to their concealment rating

 

Except Skillfast. 

[Jethro_Grey]

 

Except Skillfast. 

 

In a cruiser? Yes, in most DDs of that tier you have a couple of hundred meters buffer before the guy in his Belfast spots you and kills you.

Manageable.^^

[Nechrom]

 

In a cruiser? Yes, in most DDs of that tier you have a couple of hundred meters buffer before the guy in his Belfast spots you and kills you.

Manageable.^^

 

200m isn't a lot of room to spot the ship, react and also turn to start opening up the distance.

[Hawg]

Without radar, if a dd is tryig to cap, and there is no CV to spot him, it forced the enemy to send someone into the cap area to try and flush the dd and spot it.   Now from 10km away you can just flip a switch and he is exposed.   Smoke will do him no good.   Islands mostly do not provide protection from artillary inside cap zones.    So radar is just another reason leading to long range shooting over melee combat.

 

And the problem is not the damage the ship that lights you up will do, its the 6 other ships that insta target you.   Its getting to the point where the risk of capping just isnt worth it on T7 and up, and regardless of your feelings on radar, when games dont go for the caps until half the other team is dead, that is an unhealthy condition for the game (at least imho).

[Xevious_Red]

 

200m isn't a lot of room to spot the ship, react and also turn to start opening up the distance.

 

Its manageable. Turn as soon as you see belfast, don't fire guns. Stick on speed boost if available. The belfast has 3 choices:

-Stop and pop smoke. If it does you can easily outrun its radar

-Turn to bring all guns to bear. This means you can get away faster since it loses speed by zig zagging, and opens it up for a broadside from friendlies.

-Chase. Means it can only use front guns and the belfast remains spotted for a much longer duration. Belfasts get highly focussed.

 

Belfasts are more of a problem if they can get a lot closer (e.g. using islands/other peoples smoke) before they pop radar, or if you go somewhere completely on your own. Usually when there's radar ships you want to go for the caps that have support untill the locations of the radar ships are known