Battleship players: what is your problem? Why won't you tank?

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

I don't recall saying or implying any of those things.  I said that if your supporting cruisers decide to run away, you're in a lot of trouble and no amount of foresight of situational awareness will save you unless you're in a ship at least a fast as the cruisers, because you will get left behind in the retreat.

 

I'm perfectly happy to tank hits for my team - perhaps too happy considering how often I get sunk - and routinely lead the charge into the objective areas.

 

'It seems you are saying' followed by a question mark is usually taken as a question by most people.

 

A 'battle'ship is just that; and it is a shame so many BB captains can't seem to read the mini map and way a battle may be going. It is no more than what is asked of every other ship captain. In fact with one shot kills, less HP and no healing button, other captains do not have the resilience BB captains have.

 

There is a simple way WG can address this, by reducing BB firing range by 20%. We hear how this is not a sim but a game and it is crazy how it is every other ship that's tinkered with to accommodate the BB. If you want a BB captain to move forward it is obvious you have to make them. They aren't doing it off their own back and continually buffing them and nerfing other ships isn't working. Give them no choice.

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

 

'It seems you are saying' followed by a question mark is usually taken as a question by most people.

 

A 'battle'ship is just that; and it is a shame so many BB captains can't seem to read the mini map and way a battle may be going. It is no more than what is asked of every other ship captain. In fact with one shot kills, less HP and no healing button, other captains do not have the resilience BB captains have.

 

There is a simple way WG can address this, by reducing BB firing range by 20%. We hear how this is not a sim but a game and it is crazy how it is every other ship that's tinkered with to accommodate the BB. If you want a BB captain to move forward it is obvious you have to make them. They aren't doing it off their own back and continually buffing them and nerfing other ships isn't working. Give them no choice.

 

+1, I agree the only way to have the bad BB players tank damage and lead attacks for their team is to force them and your idea would be a strong candidate for doing that IMO.

[Nightdare]

There is a simple way WG can address this, by reducing BB firing range by 20%. We hear how this is not a sim but a game and it is crazy how it is every other ship that's tinkered with to accommodate the BB. If you want a BB captain to move forward it is obvious you have to make them. They aren't doing it off their own back and continually buffing them and nerfing other ships isn't working. Give them no choice.

 

In the case of low/mid tier US BBs it would indicate that a number of cruisers and other nation's  battleships would be able to fire upon them unopposed for a longer period of time, because they have less chance closing the distance

I also consider in such a case that surface range of torpedoes should be diminished, the ability of DDs to kill from stealth is also an inbalance

[Odo_Toothless]

Many of BB players are campers and "snipers" from one single reason. They don't know how to play this class of ship. Tried probably other classes. Sailed in straight lines and died in yolo rushes. So they learn one thing: take a most powerful ship and stay behind.

 

Many of them has awful stats and still playing in high tier, when they should return to low tiers and here learn. For them team play means nothing and they don't go for objectives. They want to simply hide, watching when other "idiots" on first line are dying hopelessly without support.

 

So the most irritating phenomena is often seen: lemming train which is not going to any real objective most of the time - the best target is a place, where is not any enemy seen. Dendending other flanks or even base, capping is meaningless, becouse they want to just survive, avoid real fight and fire from max distance from time to time.

 

Lack of skill make them think, that any other form of playing is impossible  .... Still going broadside to enemy BB, and not changing a course and speed to avoid torps even after 2K games played.

 

This is hopeless situation and any economic changes could change this behaviour.

[Arctic_Nation]

I don't think Zathras_Grimm meant a BB range nerf across the board, but rather cutting back the extreme range of higher tier BB's. To put it bluntly, 20 km ought to be enough for everyone.

 

Still won't help with cowardly captains in brawler BB's who turn tail as soon as the battered battlecruiser in front of them asks them to take over, though.

[Nightdare]

I don't think Zathras_Grimm meant a BB range nerf across the board, but rather cutting back the extreme range of higher tier BB's. To put it bluntly, 20 km ought to be enough for everyone.

 

Still won't help with cowardly captains in brawler BB's who turn tail as soon as the battered battlecruiser in front of them asks them to take over, though.

 

20km is still too far out on many maps for BBs to need to close the distance

 

I sail US BBs, I need to tread the fine line between not being away too far from the action or not so close I end up a sitting duck

this on many maps, already brings me very close to islands from where enemy DDs can stage a surprise attack

BBs lack stealth, reload, maneuverability, turretrotation, and accuracy to save themselves in CQC unless it's against another BB (or CA) that doesn't have torps

yet people here are questioning why BB captains are trying to prevent themselves from ending up in such a situation?

actually putting all the blame on the BB captains for ending up there in the first place (as if the other players are either incompetent or doing nothing and BB captains are the arbiters of the match)

 

As it currently stands: the only capable BBs that can do what you demand: 'leading the charge' are the germans'

 

[Odo_Toothless]

As it currently stands: the only capable BBs that can do what you demand: 'leading the charge' are the germans'

 

 

Problem it's not only about leading the charge. Normal game looks like this. Some forces are going right flank, some left. First DD, then cruisers and the most powerful BB's in line, other BB are close to help them both and tank. Nobody is hiding, but all are or advancing or defending, helping each other.

 

Not normal game looks like this: DD are going to caps and spot (or not = game lost soon), cruisers want to help them but they are abandoned by BB which form his lemming formation and sail far far away on one flank to the map border. In meantime enemy is crushing both DD and CA/CL which fight without support on first line and game is again lost.

 

Good driver of BB is responsible for other weaker classes. (the same as cruiser should defend friendly DD, and kill enemy in first place) For advancing or defending weaker flanks. Bad just run away from fight.

[VeteranGamer84]

I once tanked with my T9 German BB and did nothing to my team other than dying early. This game is about utilizing the map terrain to your advantage even if you're a battleship.

Also a BB player can't tank a cap without having a destroyer spotting for him for many reasons.

[almitov]

To be honest I play mostly BBs and I am really frustrated about players that camp in the back... I've seen cruisers, DDs and mostly BBs doing this and it's so f**king annoying...

 

I first went up the USN BB line and I liked most of them a lot. Not because they are good long range snipers, mind you. These ships are brawlers up to T7, so I got myself familiar with the close-range encounters. I always tried to get up close and shotgun the hell out of people while tanking damage and allowing my team to advance. This is mostly why I get really pissed when my team runs away instead or sits comfortably at 5-10km behind me.

With USN tier 8 and above the gameplay changes however - they are really good at medium ranges (7-10km). Also they can do the bow-in tactic very well. This also means that if you get too close you will likely get torped (if you stay bow-in) or citadelled (if you try to turn). Due to the poor maneuverability of the Iowa and Montana, you should not get so close to the enemy that you couldn't turn if needed. On the other side, camping from far away is also a very bad decision - you will not really do much due to poor accuracy and penetration capabilities. Something else that can be mentioned is that mid-range capabilities of the USN T8-T10 ships is well boosted by a good concealment build. This in fact is the only viable build on them, as AAA is pretty much useless in T9-T10.

 

Currently I am grinding with Friedrich der Grosse and I must say - all german BBs are good brawlers. Tanky as hell up close, brutal secondaries and main battery dispersion so poor, that to even think of camping behind is retarded. Also so far most of them have great rudder shift with upgraded hulls. 

I must add that with the Bismarck (full secondary spec) I loved to get inside the DD smokes and kill them/flush them out with secondaries and hydro. With the Friedrich this tactic does not work as well, but still I always try to be under 10km from my targets (secondaries attack at 10.6), usually even less than 6km.

The GK is something that I am looking forward to, but also it scares me a bit - it does seem to have poor rudder shift and when we add to that the horrible turn radius of german BBs T8 and above, it may require a bit different play style. Maybe something closer to the secondary range limit. 

 

With IJN BBs I am just at T7 and so far I really do not like playing them. Up to this tier they have been somewhat similar to play (except the Fuso and Kawachi). These are better at mid to long range, while at closer range they tend to have a harder time due to poor turret traverse, bad turn radius and relatively easy to hit citadel at close range. Also the Nagato tends to overpen cruisers a lot up close. From all the IJN BBs so far I mostly liked the Fuso, because it is quite similar in playstyle to the New Mexico - it is a beast up close, turns well and has very good torpedo protection. I cannot yet speak for the T8-T10 in this line though I have detected a huge weakspot on the Yamato that I love to exploit when possible - under the first turret in the front there is a mid-sized area on the cheeks that is lightly armored. If it is not perfectly bow-in, you can citadel it easily with other BBs (or even with cruisers if the angle allows it).

 

 

Overall I agree that BBs should be tanking the damage instead of running away, but there are a few that are better as support role in mid-range. A good example is the Montana, which is best played as a grossly oversized cruiser. However, the same goes for the rest of the classed - if you drive a CA/CL and you see a BB taking damage while pushing, don't just use the time to run away unless you are grossly outnumbered. Cruisers should support the BBs and DDs should either go forward spotting or hunt other DDs (depending on the DD type).

I've had too many games where me and 4-5 players go to one side, spot 5 enemies and while I push forward, my team runs away...

 

 

Something that I would also suggest is spotting assistance, similar to WoT. It should have different XP/credit impact on the different ships, based on how easy they are to spot. CVs and DDs should get the least spotting assist rewards, as they can spot other ships fairly easy (good concealment or planes). The cruisers should be in the middle and BBs should get the highest rewards from this. Of course this should be fine tuned for each ship. That would imho motivate all BB players to be 'the tip of the spear'.

[Redcap375]

It really is horses for courses concerning BBs.  The only BBs i play are the German ones for one reason....Close combat.

 

Being a CV and CL mainly, i don't enjoy sitting at the back lobbing shells. I have to stick at the back being a CV captain and CL are support ships, supporting the BBS.  German BBs give me a different style of play.  In your face and take it kinda style!  You angel that bad boy right and you can take HUGE amounts of damage.

 

BUT....And hes the rub.  Only if your in a div with others that will follow you or at least know what you are doing and support you in some way. Or someone in team in on the same wave length. 2 Bis and a cruiser in a div are deadly!!! The perfect match to be honest. 

 

Never got on with US BBs and only got to NAG with IJN.  I would say that the IJN BBs need more distance to shine and could be classed as the true BB snipers, so i dont mind them as much at the back.  US and German ones should not be at the back but up front.  

 

 

[Zathras_Grimm]

There are a few replies but to explain more fully, no I do not think a uniform % reduction in range would work across the board as BBs are different across tiers as well as nations. However, I stand by the need to reduce their range otherwise they will not be 'encouraged' to come forward.

 

Sorry Nightdare the fact that they are battleships indicate they should 'battle'. At present it is the DDs and CAs that are the battleships in this game!

 

A BB can hit a DD loooong before a DD can get in range to launch torps AND then the BB must continue in that straight line for those torps to hit. The DD must get past the enemy DDs, spotters, fighters; CV aircraft, radar.....and other enemy ships sighting the torps, for those torps to hit. A Battleship just needs one of the above list to spot a DD in order to open up from the safety of his back row seat. Yet the DD has a fraction of your hit points lol.

 

I am begining to think 'SOME' BB players didn't pick the BB because they wanted a ship that could take damage, heal and take the battle to the enemy, but rather they chose it because they thought the biggest kid on the block has the chance to be the bully that loves to deal damage with no real consequence. And like the bully they cry when they get torped/bombed/HE'd back. 

[shockinhockin]

I do ... All the time if I can help it

[Pyro_O]

I took 95k damage in my 57200hp Arizona last night when trying to cap a zone in Two Brothers because our only DD nor any cruisers would do it. Did 90k damage in return myself and helped the team to victory. The team cried to me about camping 

 

[Nightdare]

Sorry Nightdare the fact that they are battleships indicate they should 'battle'. At present it is the DDs and CAs that are the battleships in this game!

 

A BB can hit a DD loooong before a DD can get in range to launch torps AND then the BB must continue in that straight line for those torps to hit. 

 

How can you hit what you shouldn't be able to see?

I can zig zag, with dispersion just as lousy at pointblank range as at max distance, (not even talking about RNG) a maneuvering DD can get close enough it won't matter

Then there's also the fact that the initiative is in the hands of an invisible threat, I can only hope that "turn left now" means a volley of torps will pass me on my right side

if my adversary chose to guess I would be "going left now", my number's up

 

The DD must get past the enemy DDs, spotters, fighters; CV aircraft, radar.....and other enemy ships sighting the torps, for those torps to hit. A Battleship just needs one of the above list to spot a DD in order to open up from the safety of his back row seat.

 

Perhaps you suck at this, but this happens constantly

 Yet the DD has a fraction of your hit points lol.

 

A DD also has superior maneuvering and can outrun turret rotation, it can also reset the fight by laying smoke, get out of detection and try again, its torpedoes also are less subject to RNG

You'll never see a volley of torps drop harmlessly around the target if they were fired on course

 

I have had a duel with a DD that lasted several minutes, in total I hit him 8 times (out of 5 or 6 volleys), this being at sub 6km range, with a potential of almost 4 times his HP, he survived all 8 hits and came out a winner

(and once in my cleveland, 2 DDs made surviving impossible by working together and firing torps in a crossfire out of detection range)

 

I am begining to think 'SOME' BB players didn't pick the BB because they wanted a ship that could take damage, heal and take the battle to the enemy, but rather they chose it because they thought the biggest kid on the block has the chance to be the bully that loves to deal damage with no real consequence. And like the bully they cry when they get torped/bombed/HE'd back. 

 

That is what we call "projection", it's is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities while attributing them to others

 

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

How can you hit what you shouldn't be able to see?

I can zig zag, with dispersion just as lousy at pointblank range as at max distance, (not even talking about RNG) a maneuvering DD can get close enough it won't matter

Then there's also the fact that the initiative is in the hands of an invisible threat, I can only hope that "turn left now" means a volley of torps will pass me on my right side

if my adversary chose to guess I would be "going left now", my number's up

 

 

Perhaps you suck at this, but this happens constantly

 

A DD also has superior maneuvering and can outrun turret rotation, it can also reset the fight by laying smoke, get out of detection and try again, its torpedoes also are less subject to RNG

You'll never see a volley of torps drop harmlessly around the target if they were fired on course

 

I have had a duel with a DD that lasted several minutes, in total I hit him 8 times (out of 5 or 6 volleys), this being at sub 6km range, with a potential of almost 4 times his HP, he survived all 8 hits and came out a winner

(and once in my cleveland, 2 DDs made surviving impossible by working together and firing torps in a crossfire out of detection range)

 

 

That is what we call "projection", it's is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities while attributing them to others

 

 

Yep, that's why I picked the IJN DD line; to go around bullying every other ship lol.

 

Of course you're totally right and despite all the factors that highlight DDs we are indeed the bully in the playground. Except for me because I suck, oh and of course that one other DD player you spotted and hit 8 times and couldn't kill.

 

Oh, and the 2 that worked together to beat you. Yep, I'm beginning to think they should take away all the things that help us beat players like you. It's obviously not fair. You state how you can't hit what you can't see and then use a list of examples where you see the 'invisible' DDs in every one. You also seem to equate speed of a DD ship with BB turret rotation; did you include the field of vision you have with distance (you know, at the back), rudder turn and rotation (simply put, the further away the bigger the firing field).

 

Hold on though, what if I'm projecting, does that mean WG should take your perks away? Hmmm you've confused me, I just don't know what I want now! Nearly gave you a like just for the effort lol, but with your example of DD encounters seems to indicate you may be one of those players WG nerfs other ships to help(?) 

[Isalani]

@Nightdare

Let's compare your 2 best BB's to my scores on the same ship (mind you, not my best ships in those tiers since I love to push and they're both a bit slow for that):

Colorado: 

WR: 46%

avg damage: 48.3k

New Mexico:

WR: 57%

damage: 43k

 

My scores:

colorado:

wr: 56%

damage: 77k

New Mexico:

wr: 66%

damage: 58.7k

 

You say pushing is a bad idea? You should reconsider...

[Waifu_is_Laifu]

DON'T get me even STARTED on pure stupidity of the playerbase

One of my last games in New Mexico - I want to get up close and personal on the Strait map, so I think "Ok, time to go for the middle, only 1 DD there and there's a Cleve-" >gets hit 8 times from the nowhere<  "What?" Then again, 7 hits from behind. And I look to see the Cleveland on our team shooting me from behind because... I camp. I F'N CAMP. Going straight for the middle to ruin the reds' day and he goes on about camping BBs and continues to shoot me, sets me on fire, so I put it out (3 fires (!!!) ) and proceed to the middle. So I notice later some torps and proceed to avoid but that GODFORSAKEN Cleveland BLOCKS me, still going on about me CAMPING and gets me killed in process. And between all that I sent 3 ships to the comfy bottom of the ocean, including deleting Omaha from 16km! That guy literally LOST our game by himself!! I'm still ABSOLUTELY LIVID when I think about it, cause that had the potential to be a killer game.

I always try to move up close so I can ruin other players' day, cause USN and KM BBs are good at that. But all I see is CA and DD players rush in ONE BY ONE into the meat grinder just to cry about campers, when I am about 10-15 knots slower! And when I am in position then 1/4 of my team is dead and the rest just retreated to the safety of the island or border. I mean COME THE F ON, I want all the attention so you get NONE and you can DO YOUR THING. But noooo, herp derp camping so fun, shooting from max range, derp herp and then crying because YOU are bad cause you died and the team lost. You know why that's not the truth, but I just had to get this off the chest, even if it was just some plebs' ranting.

 

Cheers


 

[Ferry_25]

Man. That sounds like an awefull game! I recently had something similar. Ok, no friendly firing jerk but I was pushing in the desert islands map (forgot the name of course). In the middle section, around the islands to get some cover while shooting like crazy in my Iowa. Nearly the whole team stayed @ the map border, shouting I was camping... When I shot my kraken, they finally dared to push with me.

 

My whole point is: IMO if the BB pushes (=/= rushing forward like a maniac into the meat grinder) the rest (cruisers and other BB's) should be inclined to follow. And stay close (=/= hugging and paint scratching) the BB. DD's ahead (=/= 20 km ahead) and push to an objective. Or at least to a sensible position. The cruisers can adept to the upcoming situations (rush forward when DD's, fall back when BB's). That way IMO gives the best chance to win. No guarantee of course but at least fun battles in which skill is getting more important.

 

Is it me or is there a new trend coming up? All ships going to 1 useless corner of the map...

[Zathras_Grimm]

Man. That sounds like an awefull game! I recently had something similar. Ok, no friendly firing jerk but I was pushing in the desert islands map (forgot the name of course). In the middle section, around the islands to get some cover while shooting like crazy in my Iowa. Nearly the whole team stayed @ the map border, shouting I was camping... When I shot my kraken, they finally dared to push with me.

 

My whole point is: IMO if the BB pushes (=/= rushing forward like a maniac into the meat grinder) the rest (cruisers and other BB's) should be inclined to follow. And stay close (=/= hugging and paint scratching) the BB. DD's ahead (=/= 20 km ahead) and push to an objective. Or at least to a sensible position. The cruisers can adept to the upcoming situations (rush forward when DD's, fall back when BB's). That way IMO gives the best chance to win. No guarantee of course but at least fun battles in which skill is getting more important.

 

Is it me or is there a new trend coming up? All ships going to 1 useless corner of the map...

 

So they were at the edge shooting, in effect using distance to negate the enemy getting a shot at them and they were shouting at you who were using landmarks to negate the enemy firing at you?

 

Honestly, if it wasn't for the fact that I know there are good BB captains out there I would truly worry about the class.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

Stupidity and hesitation exist is all classes in WoWs, not just battleships. Some players in battleships hesitate and snipe, in cruisers they think they are invisible/invincible and sail in straight lines, in destroyers they sit behind an island in smoke the whole game, and in CV's send their planes around the edge of the map looking for the other CV instead of helping the team.

 

Some players thinking battleships should always tank is as stupid as battleships always sniping. There are no hard fast rules for how a class/ship should be played. Its situational based on your teammates, the map/mode, and the other teams movements/points during the game.

[El2aZeR]

Never put out "friendly" fires, they'll eventually get pink and all damage you take from them gets reflected back instead, INCLUDING fire damage. 

 

[Ferry_25]

Stupidity and hesitation exist is all classes in WoWs, not just battleships. Some players in battleships hesitate and snipe, in cruisers they think they are invisible/invincible and sail in straight lines, in destroyers they sit behind an island in smoke the whole game, and in CV's send their planes around the edge of the map looking for the other CV instead of helping the team.

 

Some players thinking battleships should always tank is as stupid as battleships always sniping. There are no hard fast rules for how a class/ship should be played. Its situational based on your teammates, the map/mode, and the other teams movements/points during the game.

 

Exactly my point. Though when to open fire is a tactic as well... Do I open up when a ship comes barely in my range? Probably miss and do I want to draw that early attention? That way I can easily force myself into a sniping position because of focus fire... I usually wait a few seconds more until they are closer: more chance to hit and make a difference. And in those seconds I can already start to go left or right beforehand, so I can fire full BS while turning, so the return salvo's come in while I'm angled again. Doesn't always work mind you: I often found myself laying full BS to that BB which has done the exact same trick as I had in the middle of the turn.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

Learning when to fire and when to stop firing is a skill I am developing well, while playing RN CL's. Get focused, turn away and stop firing. Watch your visibility circle in the minimap. Make your way forward again, rinse and repeat. A skill that still works for BB's on occasions.

[procrastinatingStudent]

Learning when to fire and when to stop firing is a skill I am developing well, while playing RN CL's. Get focused, turn away and stop firing. Watch your visibility circle in the minimap. Make your way forward again, rinse and repeat. A skill that still works for BB's on occasions.

it's a skill for any gun based ship but trying to force a turn is a bad move, more so in British CL

[gravelbelly]

Hmmm let me see, the last 5 BB games i played,I moved forward, the friendly cruiser buggered off and left me, and I had cruisers following me and just melted me with fire. friendly cruisers used that as an opportunity to bugger off. So.. why should I close and get melted instead of keeping distance?