Battleship players: what is your problem? Why won't you tank?

[yahooooo]

I usually do lead charges in my BBs. Especially with the german BBs that actually is a lot of fun and I actually have no problem with dying if it leads my team to a victory.

 

But as what said already, I found that most of the times, you suddenly are alone because all those players that complain about non charging BBs suddenly turn around and leave you there to die. So I gotta say I personally consider the argument of people complaining about non charging BBs a bit dishonest. They cry all the time, but when it really comes down to it, they are as cowardly as the BB captains they rant about.

 

This.

[Zathras_Grimm]

I usually do lead charges in my BBs. Especially with the german BBs that actually is a lot of fun and I actually have no problem with dying if it leads my team to a victory.

 

But as what said already, I found that most of the times, you suddenly are alone because all those players that complain about non charging BBs suddenly turn around and leave you there to die. So I gotta say I personally consider the argument of people complaining about non charging BBs a bit dishonest. They cry all the time, but when it really comes down to it, they are as cowardly as the BB captains they rant about.

 

 

This.

Sorry not quite getting the logic. If you are moving forward why would players be complaining about you not moving forward?

 

If you are not moving forward then how can they be leaving you on your own out front?

 

I thought the complaint was about BBs staying at the back and not pushing forward with the team? If whilst pushing forward with your team, something causes them to withdraw, then why not wothdraw with them instead of staying out in front?

[Bismarck_chan]

I usually try to close the distance in my BBs. HAd some epic games where we punched through the enemy line like an armoured spearhead. Sadly that's only about 20% of the games. Usually upon contact my team turns to give the gunnery crews of their aft turrets some practice. Or the cruisers sit behind me, yelling about campers while I'm dodging torps from the enemies DDs, trying not to give broadside to the enemies big guns. Not sure about the mandatory repair fee, yet. It feels like I had more close ranged engagements in m BB before it was implemented. Credit income stayed about the same for me though, so I guess I'm doing what WG wants me to do.

 

Welcome to the life of a DD captain. ;)

As someone who is both an avid DD and BB player, disengaging in a DD is a lot easier. 

[rancidpunk]

I usually do lead charges in my BBs. Especially with the german BBs that actually is a lot of fun and I actually have no problem with dying if it leads my team to a victory.

 

But as what said already, I found that most of the times, you suddenly are alone because all those players that complain about non charging BBs suddenly turn around and leave you there to die. So I gotta say I personally consider the argument of people complaining about non charging BBs a bit dishonest. They cry all the time, but when it really comes down to it, they are as cowardly as the BB captains they rant about.

 

It's that sinking feeling when you say "I'll tank A" at the start, loads of affirmatives then you get focused, fight, sink and look back to see them all sat at max range apparently "supporting" you.

 

Now I just don't bother unless a DD gets in front first to get some smoke in the cap for me.

[Getzamatic]

 

Sorry not quite getting the logic. If you are moving forward why would players be complaining about you not moving forward?

 

If you are not moving forward then how can they be leaving you on your own out front?

 

I thought the complaint was about BBs staying at the back and not pushing forward with the team? If whilst pushing forward with your team, something causes them to withdraw, then why not wothdraw with them instead of staying out in front?

 

​It's not complicated.  Some players complain that BBs don't push - but if you do push forward and tank, you are likely to get abandoned by your teammates the moment the going gets tough and you do not usually have the speed to escape.  Happens to me all the time...

 

I am by no means an expert player - in fact I'm probably pretty bad - but on the whole the only time I've found pushing forward like this to work really well is when two battleships do it together, because we have to support one another.  BB captains simply cannot rely on the cruisers not turning tail and abandoning them at the first sign of trouble.

[Ferry_25]

All good responses but a little "black - white" IMO. The key factor is teamwork (as always). Now, if I "lead" a charge in a BB and we run into a massive superior force I don't mind if the cruisers/ DD's bail and they shoot me to smitherens. Better only me gone than 3 or 4 ships. If it's a "little trouble" Ill just keep pushing shoot the little trouble back to no trouble. Usually that make them bail back again. And there's a difference between running away and start wiggling because that's a aboslute must in a cruiser. You simply can't afford to go straight line or you'll be nuked instantly. Also running off cruisers in an angle ar the hardest to hit. So it might not be just running off and leaving you to rot but mere tactics to provide you with optimal supportfire with optimal risk taking.

And I'm not suggesting the BB must always lead a charge. If your team makes a desperate push through the 2 brothers ditch it's obvious the DD must lead the carge. And no Kongo must not always snipe but IMO it is a good ship to snipe.

[shadowwolf9705]

for me there are 3 reasons why bbs mostly dont push:

 

1: your friend and teammate the destroyer: this is reason number 1 and the most important one, a BB that gets no backup by their own destroyers as a counter against the enemy ones can not push, if it does it transfoms into a submarine and thats also the biggest issue most DD players are too obsessed with damage and do not take their important support role serious, simply because the DD is the class in the game that can say Team? who needs that i has camo and torps (not that dds are op its just the players that do not use it to the advantage of their teams and are playing lone Hero instead of their main role as vanguard)

 

2: no advantage in damage and accuracy: in random games it doesnt matter if you are away 10km or 20km form the enemy as the damage does not change much cause on long range you will do more citadels and more regualr pens while on short range you this wiill all turn into overpens to that add that the accuracy is on all ranges equally random you can miss an entire good aimed broadside on short range because off rng

 

3: there is no feedback for tanking in the game, you hit people you get feedback you torch them you get feedback etc. now you tank and evade etc. there is no feedback so most people will think that it does nothing ergo they will look at their huge range and think oh hey i can shoot stuff from 23 km so lets stay there

[Akula971]

I will only push forwards if I'm escorted by cruisers. Far too many times I've pushed a cap, thinking the cruisers that came with me, where behind, and ready to take out any enemy DDs, to find that they have turned tail and ran off, leaving me alone fighting multiple HE spammers, whilst trying to keep guns on target, and dodging torpedoes. If I am escorted, I'll do my level best to take out any threats to them, usually enemy cruisers, so that they are free to HE spam battleships themselves.

I'm usually a DD player, and have on some many occasions used my smoke to hide friendly BBs and cruisers, but 99% of the time they sail right through it to resultant oblivion. Lets face it chaps, the vast majority of the player base are just too stupid to realise how stupid they are, and put their terrible results down to bad luck. When there is a push that combines DDs out in front, spotting enemy DDs and using their torpedoes to spook BBs, cruisers to take out enemy DDs and battleships using their firepower to support both, it works a treat. I've seen many a game where the team splits into two fleets, one of chaos, I'm doing my own thing, and gets deleted, and you think you'll loose, but the other fleet staying together and  turn the game completely.

[Close_Quarters_Expert]

My biggest hate in this game is passive Battleship play, so give me a minute here to congratulate the OP on this thread; amongst many others of the same theme. 

 

I must also disagree with a previous post stating that Kongo is a good sniper...she *is*, but only as far as saying that a serial murderer is good at his job; he shouldn't be doing it in the first place. Kongo is a very capable close-quarters ship. At her MM tier especially, VERY capable. The most capable in the IJN line after Yammy imho, though I know I'm alone in this thought.

 

 

Pre-planning is essential and I don't recommend leading a doomed charge, but I do think a BB who rushed into trouble without enough help is better than a passive one who outlives everyone only be killed at the end of battle. I love the new fixed repair cost. I've always tanked in BBs/pushed when I can, and whilst it isn't as awarding to me personally as perhaps 'camp and snipe' would be in some instances, I almost always get at least a few kills from it and in doing so maybe even a cap. BBs who don't push are the worst type of player imo as they're directly causing their allied cruisers to die...I don't care about the situation. A BB not attacking enemy ships to support his pushing DD/cruiser allies, but instead camps and snipes, is nothing but a liability to his team. If you're scared of pushing on the grounds of 'but everyone will just abandon me'...well, you've lost already. You need to lead the charge. If Cruisers see a BB pushing, most of the time at least some will join you. And if they don't, well...the enemy will have a Battleship to deal with! Unless you know there's a DD or a higher tier BB right in front of you, waiting to nuke you to Davy Jones, (in which case I'll normally still push anyway and WASD hack), there's no excuse. Even where islands are concerned...if you *know* there's a DD waiting to ambush you, just push in a different place. Seriously...there's no excuse for not pushing which doesn't have an answer.

 

I just don't get it. Cowardice and lack of skill is the most likely cause. 

 

It's such fun getting close and nuking Cruisers without worrying about RNG too much, while your secondaries mince anything that comes close (especially in German BBs...I feel sick to the pit of my stomach whenever I see someone playing a German BB passively without a good reason for doing so). Even 'soft BBs' like Kongo and Nagato can be excellent in close-quarters. In fact, some of my best games have been in Kongo just continuously pushing...her speed makes angling so easy. Fuso's also a beast if you get her to within 14km or so, so I really don't buy the whole 'i'll get focussed and die' sh*t, as 9 times out of 10 it's your fault for being in that situation...being cautious does not mean 'camping' at about 16km from the nearest enemy. Being cautious imo means using cover like a cruiser must and angling at the appropriate times. I also don't buy any range upgrades unless I *really* need them...range beyond 18-20km just invites bad behaviour in BBs. I also hate the wonky dispersion which comes with it. It's for this reason my NC is actually outranged by other tier 7 and 8 BBs...I have a shipload of fun without range to hold my hand. I also resent that some people say it's 'suiciding' going in without backup. YOU'RE A BATTLESHIP, NOT A RUSSIAN CRUISER. You tanking and taking the heat will either directly or indirectly help your allies win the match. Even when you get insta-killed for being bold and pushing without enough support...just think...you just displaced the enemy team and by doing so, could well have scuppered their strategy in having to deal with your push. I see this happen so often; an enemy rush to kill me, the 'lone BB' pushing a cap. Regardless of what I do or my fate beyond that point, they've put themselves at risk from the rest of the team trying to deal with me. It sounds stupid, but a lot of players actually do this kind of thing...

 

(I know half of the people reading this are going to start trying to stat-shame me. But here's the point...I know my stats aren't the best, but *I know* I play BBs correctly in this particular case; my aim and strategic thinking on the other hand is not unicum. I don't have enough free time to become unicum, among other reasons. So you can shove that smart ar*e attitude where the sun doesn't shine, frankly. Passive BBabies have lost me so many battles in this game I really couldn't care less about them or the ways in which they justify their behaviour.)

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

​It's not complicated.  Some players complain that BBs don't push - but if you do push forward and tank, you are likely to get abandoned by your teammates the moment the going gets tough and you do not usually have the speed to escape.  Happens to me all the time...

 

I am by no means an expert player - in fact I'm probably pretty bad - but on the whole the only time I've found pushing forward like this to work really well is when two battleships do it together, because we have to support one another.  BB captains simply cannot rely on the cruisers not turning tail and abandoning them at the first sign of trouble.

Abandoned? Start paying attention to your mini map then. Communicate.

To support DDs and CAs you do not have to push out in front of them. Do what is being mentioned and support. If the DDs and CAs start to sail past you in retreat then go with them!

 

You make it sound like BB players can't think and it's either stay at the back or go right to the front. 

[Getzamatic]

Abandoned? Start paying attention to your mini map then. Communicate.

To support DDs and CAs you do not have to push out in front of them. Do what is being mentioned and support. If the DDs and CAs start to sail past you then go with them.

 

You make it sound like BB players can't think and it's either stay at the back or go right to the front. 

 

I think you're being wilfully obtuse.  Just because you refuse to acknowledge there might be a problem, that doesn't mean it isn't so.

 

Cruisers are usually 5-10 knots faster that equal tier battleships -  It's as simple as that.  Should the cruisers turn and quit, even if I'm completely aware of it happening and turn away at the same time, I will be left lagging behind because of my lack of speed.  Not to mention the fact that most battleships turn slower and scrub more speed turning, so spend more time in the turn with their broadsides exposed as a result.

[Zathras_Grimm]

 

I think you're being wilfully obtuse.  Just because you refuse to acknowledge there might be a problem, that doesn't mean it isn't so.

 

Cruisers are usually 5-10 knots faster that equal tier battleships -  It's as simple as that.  Should the cruisers turn and quit, even if I'm completely aware of it happening and turn away at the same time, I will be left lagging behind because of my lack of speed.  Not to mention the fact that most battleships turn slower and scrub more speed turning, so spend more time in the turn with their broadsides exposed as a result.

 

Oh dear, here come the accusations. I haven't refused to acknowledge a problem exists; in fact I agree that there is a problem (the problem the OP has highlighted).

 

 

Ok how about we meet half way and BB players agree to stay 5 km behind the cruisers (who are usually 5km behind the DDs). Would that be ok? How far back do you (BBs) want to stay behind every one else in order to feel safe?

 

 

If you look at it, your argument 'seems' to be saying that unless you're as fast and mobile as everyone else you aren't prepared to come forward even in support (not in front), you aren't able to keep track of the battle, or understand if the enemy may be winning AND that seeing the rest of your ships retreating isn't enough to highlight to you something may be wrong?

 

 

If you join a push and it goes wrong then I am afraid you have to expect to be hit. Your HP is tied to your turn rates just as the cruisers and destroyers. Why do you feel you should not take comparable damage (at least you can heal yourself!)?

 

 

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Just to ease the heated minds here, should we not distinguish the tier brackets and some ship assets? Just to avoid people exploding while talking about absolutely different situations. You see, there is a difference between "That stupid BB (South Carolina with 15 knots) stayed behind the allied fleet all game (and did not have any enemy within gun range)" and "I pushed a cap and tanked for my team (with mighty Yamato lolbounce armor) while those cowards all ran away (while being shot at by lolpen BB shells)"

[Culiacan_Mexico]

 

As someone who is both an avid DD and BB player, disengaging in a DD is a lot easier. 

Absolutely.  

 

That is why I want to scout and screen in my DDs... give the BBs what intel I can so they can decide to move forward or back.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

...Pre-planning is essential...

In my limited experience with playing BBs, this is the critical skill.  The ability to 'read' your team and the enemy, and then act accordingly. There isn't a lot of room for error with BBs in general.

 

The easy path is simply never to develop this skill and stay well back out of range.

[anonym_i2RxUTEMphjW]

Just had a game in a Koenig, pushed in enemy's base direction, found myself alone and under fire from 4 enemy's BB, retreated sinking 3 ships before concentrated fire deleted me. While 2 other Koenigs and a Kongo were just sitting behind our base with a CV.
I got salty and while red fleet was slowly sinking them with 3:1 numbers, wrote about campy coward losers.

'No, you are a loser because you're dead already'.

It can be written hundreds of posts here, it will not change the fact that a very big part of playerbase doesn't and will not give a damn about tactics, class roles and all this, and NOTHING will change it. They just want to get into their ship and shot. And shot as long as possible, so it's best to get a BB and stay behind to make it. WR, teamplay, wins in general, anything besides point and click - it's not even they don't care about it - it all just doesn't EXIST for them. Develop skills? What?
From this point of view this game is FUBAR. There are 3 kinds of players, i think. Those above, unicums that will succeed no matter how - and middle salty class that tries to develop in extremally undeveloping environment. The question is: what for?
 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Just had a game in a Koenig, pushed in enemy's base direction, found myself alone and under fire from 4 enemy's BB, retreated sinking 3 ships before concentrated fire deleted me. While 2 other Koenigs and a Kongo were just sitting behind our base with a CV.

 

So.... you agree that some BB captain fail to sail their ships as effectively as they might?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

...it will not change the fact that a very big part of playerbase doesn't and will not give a damn about tactics, class roles and all this, and NOTHING will change it...

I agree that some will never change, but...

 

I think many just don't understand how to use their ships effectively.  

At low to mid tiers, if a DD player doesn't learn the nuance of their ship... they can get deleted quickly.

At low tier a Cruiser player can get by, but my mid tier... if you don't understand what is needed you can get deleted fast.

 

BB players on the other hand are given incentives (camp and snipe) to under play their ships so they aren't deleted .  It seems like a valid tactic, but when you see a player in Bismark snipping from max range the whole game...  The 'meta' of camping and snipping from retaliative safety also attracts a certain group of players... a feedback that reinforces the problem.

[Yaccay]

It's just simply not rewarding.

Yesterday I lead a push in F. Der grosse, I was focused obviously but my teammates manage to kill most of them while I was slowly dying and we won the game. I felt like I contributed a lot but the battle result showed i was a yoloing donkey and put me at the bottom of the list. 

Why would you want to tank if there's no specific reward for tankers? It's really risky but there are no incentives to do so. 

 

I fully agree.

People are not stupid. They do what they are rewarded for.

For example BBs should get credit and xp for getting shot (damage or non-damage) when they are in the capture zone.

Well, but there is no such a mechanism.

 

[procrastinatingStudent]

 

I fully agree.

People are not stupid. They do what they are rewarded for.

For example BBs should get credit and xp for getting shot (damage or non-damage) when they are in the capture zone.

Well, but there is no such a mechanism.

 

 

players are rewarded for being shot at but the rewards are so low for this you wouldn't notice it was there

[anonym_i2RxUTEMphjW]

There should be clear and big reward for 'potential damage taken' - all shells fired by ships targetting you. Not only for BB tanking but also for the everyone's favourite pinatas - cruisers. Rewarding games where you ran away dragging 2/3 of enemy's fleet just wanting an easy frag, while your team gets control over the map with less resistance.

The problem i can see with it would be yolo players.

[SmartassNoob]

@Yaccay There should absolutely never be an award for getting damaged. That would result in situations where someone might want to get damaged, more than they would want to win the battle. Why would you want to get hit inside the cap circle? That would increase the time needed to capture it and thereby hurt the team effort.

 

Instead, there are other much easier ways to prevent non-productive camping:

• Maybe give a minor reward for distance traveled? The trouble is that people car travel just as well along a safe edge of the map. Also, there are situations where ships might have to defend a small area.
• Maybe increase the caping reward for BBs, so there would be more motivation to put ones ship in danger?
• It would also be possible to track the average distance to the nearest known enemy ship and reduce rewards if it's too much. This distance should increase as tiers go up. This would certainly eliminate sniping, especially if implemented along with the first option, but what happens if there really is a legitimate sniper out there who can make maximum use out of their Kongo, or Fuso? Why punish them for it?

 

All this sort of things would obviously prevent some legitimate team tactics, so I'd actually prefer something different.

 

How about if instead of finding an overly complicated and confusing way to punish kids for playing "wrongly", there would be a way to not hinder peoples unique tactics and still force people to try to play "better"?

 

• How about if at the end of a battle the losing team would get absolutely no rewards? This would definitely motivate people to play as "well" as possible and even co-operate when needed. The only problem would be the loss of credits from servicing the ships. That would make people generally unhappy about the game and maybe even decrease the number of players, so ideally the losing team should not be rewarded, but they shouldn't be specifically punished either.

[Getzamatic]

 

Oh dear, here come the accusations. I haven't refused to acknowledge a problem exists; in fact I agree that there is a problem (the problem the OP has highlighted).

 

 

Ok how about we meet half way and BB players agree to stay 5 km behind the cruisers (who are usually 5km behind the DDs). Would that be ok? How far back do you (BBs) want to stay behind every one else in order to feel safe?

 

 

If you look at it, your argument 'seems' to be saying that unless you're as fast and mobile as everyone else you aren't prepared to come forward even in support (not in front), you aren't able to keep track of the battle, or understand if the enemy may be winning AND that seeing the rest of your ships retreating isn't enough to highlight to you something may be wrong?

 

 

If you join a push and it goes wrong then I am afraid you have to expect to be hit. Your HP is tied to your turn rates just as the cruisers and destroyers. Why do you feel you should not take comparable damage (at least you can heal yourself!)?

 

 

 

I don't recall saying or implying any of those things.  I said that if your supporting cruisers decide to run away, you're in a lot of trouble and no amount of foresight of situational awareness will save you unless you're in a ship at least a fast as the cruisers, because you will get left behind in the retreat.

 

I'm perfectly happy to tank hits for my team - perhaps too happy considering how often I get sunk - and routinely lead the charge into the objective areas.

[thestaggy]

I can safely say I am not one of those, but I do agree, it is infuriating when BBs don't get stuck in, especially so if it is a German BB.

 

In one game yesterday we had TWO border sniping Gneisenaus while I, in my Fuso, was earning Dreadnought in the centre of the map.

 

I will concede that it is not always the BB's fault. Too often you get DDs that don't scout ahead and I don't feel like running in to an ambush and your cruisers are busy parking behind islands and lobbing their HE from max range at the enemy BBs instead of using their tools to dig enemy destroyers out.

[Bladezfist]

I can safely say I am not one of those, but I do agree, it is infuriating when BBs don't get stuck in, especially so if it is a German BB.

 

In one game yesterday we had TWO border sniping Gneisenaus while I, in my Fuso, was earning Dreadnought in the centre of the map.

 

I will concede that it is not always the BB's fault. Too often you get DDs that don't scout ahead and I don't feel like running in to an ambush and your cruisers are busy parking behind islands and lobbing their HE from max range at the enemy BBs instead of using their tools to dig enemy destroyers out.

 

Agreed, nobody is saying to charge in when conditions are bad. But when you have optimal conditions to move in and support your team, do it. The Bismarck sniping has to be the most infuriating thing to see, the ship makes for a terrible sniper and has such an insane advantage over all enemy classes at close range, I end up getting a fair few kills in my Bismarck without even noticing it while training my captain to get manual secondaries just by keeping the enemy ships close to me.