Battleship players: what is your problem? Why won't you tank?

[mtm78]

 

Ouch. Note my join date. 

 

Also, while I like to think I'm the better kind of noob (the one who tries to learn from his mistakes) most people will probably tell you otherwise. 

 

it's all in jest 

 

Come join the Forumites chat channel in game and division up with some of the regulars, nothing beats playing with other people both in having fun and in becoming a better player. 

 

( search for Forumites (capital F important) by Sturmtiger304 iirc, password is 'play4fun' ). 

[sharpie65]

Thanks for the heads up! I think you'll find I've just joined it now. 

 

[ThinderChief]

At least there's no TX Premiums for £$¢....that would be annoying having TX truly ruled by cashnoobs who think that because they bought (as opposed to ground out) a ship they're good in it.

 

​I don't think that's what what "cashnoobs" think at all, I don't know about you guys but lots of people are playing for fun, they do not take things anywhere near as seriously as you do, so if you want an "elite" league then, go demo on W.G front door for it, or get over it.

 

This game is not reserved for pro, semi-pro, wannabe pro, those who follow the previous because they know them (online), those who follow those who follows those because it's fashionable and the rest of the usual B.S factor and associated syndromes coming with the use of social networks/online games.

 

This is still a game, people doesn't have to be at your levels to play it and it is just as well because while you throw the word "noob" as an insult at the face of everyone with lower "stats" than yours, you forget to mention that if it wasn't for them, YOUR stats wouldn't be looking so shinny, since you'd be facing equally skilled players in most cases and bashing the eke of each other for no higher average result than a logical 50%.

 

But eh, one does one what can, still you feed on "noobs", made them your bred and butter, the very least you should do is show them some damned respect, after all they pay for your games, alternatively take a wingman, that's how the top guys does in the aviation (real) world, it's called ATLC or Advanced Tactical Leadership Course, you train a noob, he will pass on the knowledge to a lesser player but stop complaining, insult newbies on a permanent basis, and do some about this situation, you're not going to achieve anything with this attitude anyway.

 

For those with the ambition of training others, you need to have/adopt the right kind of psychologic make up to be anywhere to good at it, not every top gunner CAN be a good instructor, sometimes even lesser skilled guys do a better job at it simply because they pass on knowledge in a better way, you might be good at online gaming, if you forget that you deal with real people then it's not going to work that well.

 

On the other hand, you rightly raised the issue of MM and level of skills, if that's your problem is then it is time to consider actively pushing for this aspect of the game to be looked at by W.G before it turns as the farce WoT has became, because it is only a matter of time before "noobs" can get their hands on tIX/tX BBs with cash (it's already the case with Missouri), again this game was not designed exclusively for you but for everyone and remains a commercial operation, think of it...

 

As for myself I play the ships I like, not necessarily the best earner or the best in her tiers, meaning NO German Torp shiter, HE spamming specialist or heavy floating bunker like Yamato but USN line of BBs, I won't get the highest results but I personally do not care the slightest, I play for fun, ship fun factor, look and aura are way more important to me than what people can say about my stats.

 

Give me a Premium USS Washington any time.

[anonym_MfZ6T7iwWpUC]

 

​I don't think that's what what "cashnoobs" think at all, I don't know about you guys but lots of people are playing for fun, they do not take things anywhere near as seriously as you do, so if you want an "elite" league then, go demo on W.G front door for it, or get over it.

 

This game is not reserved for pro, semi-pro, wannabe pro, those who follow the previous because they know them (online), those who follow those who follows those because it's fashionable and the rest of the usual B.S factor and associated syndromes coming with the use of social networks/online games.

 

This is still a game, people doesn't have to be at your levels to play it and it is just as well because while you throw the word "noob" as an insult at the face of everyone with lower "stats" than yours, you forget to mention that if it wasn't for them, YOUR stats wouldn't be looking so shinny, since you'd be facing equally skilled players in most cases and bashing the eke of each other for no higher average result than a logical 50%.

 

But eh, one does one what can, still you feed on "noobs", made them your bred and butter, the very least you should do is show them some damned respect, after all they pay for your games, alternatively take a wingman, that's how the top guys does in the aviation (real) world, it's called ATLC or Advanced Tactical Leadership Course, you train a noob, he will pass on the knowledge to a lesser player but stop complaining, insult newbies on a permanent basis, and do some about this situation, you're not going to achieve anything with this attitude anyway.

 

On the other hand, you rightly raised the issue of MM and level of skills, if that's your problem is then it is time to consider actively pushing for this aspect of the game to be looked at by W.G before it turns as the farce WoT has became, because it is only a matter of time before "noobs" can get their hands on tIX/tX BBs with cash (it's already the case with Missouri), again this game was not designed exclusively for you but for everyone and remains a commercial operation, think of it...

 

As for myself I play the ships I like, not necessarily the best earner or the best in her tiers, meaning NO German Torp shiter, HE spamming specialist or heavy floating bunker like Yamato but USN line of BBs, I won't get the highest results but I personally do not care the slightest, I play for fun, ship fun factor, look and aura are way more important to me than what people can say about my stats.

 

Give me a Premium USS Washington any time.

 

Could not have said it better myself. I have been playing this game since open beta. Its only now, that I have found a ship I really enjoy playing. The Nagato. I have never managed to get so many citadel hits before. I try my best in every game, but if the team loose, so be it. It certainly wont be for the lack of trying on my part.

 

Although I dont snipe by policy, I have no problem having a pop.

Achieved a few cracking hits in both the Fuso and Nagato. I also dont have a problem pushing, as long as I have support that stay with me. But I wont brawl just for the sake of it. I have seen many a BB recklessly go forward and close in, only to get deleted in short time. The loss of a BB so cheaply doesnt help anybody.

 

On US BB's, the Colorado is a real tough old boot. It takes some dam sinking. At some point I must give it a go. The NC also.

[ThinderChief]

On US BB's, the Colorado is a real tough old boot. It takes some dam sinking. At some point I must give it a go. The NC also.

 

In my humble opinion, N.C is the best of the USN line, among the best guns and best armour, plus she can turn, even if she isn't as fast as Iowa I think she is a better ship for the tier.

[sharpie65]

 

​I don't think that's what what "cashnoobs" think at all, I don't know about you guys but lots of people are playing for fun, they do not take things anywhere near as seriously as you do, so if you want an "elite" league then, go demo on W.G front door for it, or get over it.

 

This game is not reserved for pro, semi-pro, wannabe pro, those who follow the previous because they know them (online), those who follow those who follows those because it's fashionable and the rest of the usual B.S factor and associated syndromes coming with the use of social networks/online games.

 

This is still a game, people doesn't have to be at your levels to play it and it is just as well because while you throw the word "noob" as an insult at the face of everyone with lower "stats" than yours, you forget to mention that if it wasn't for them, YOUR stats wouldn't be looking so shinny, since you'd be facing equally skilled players in most cases and bashing the eke of each other for no higher average result than a logical 50%.

 

But eh, one does one what can, still you feed on "noobs", made them your bred and butter, the very least you should do is show them some damned respect, after all they pay for your games, alternatively take a wingman, that's how the top guys does in the aviation (real) world, it's called ATLC or Advanced Tactical Leadership Course, you train a noob, he will pass on the knowledge to a lesser player but stop complaining, insult newbies on a permanent basis, and do some about this situation, you're not going to achieve anything with this attitude anyway.

 

For those with the ambition of training others, you need to have/adopt the right kind of psychologic make up to be anywhere to good at it, not every top gunner CAN be a good instructor, sometimes even lesser skilled guys do a better job at it simply because they pass on knowledge in a better way, you might be good at online gaming, if you forget that you deal with real people then it's not going to work that well.

 

On the other hand, you rightly raised the issue of MM and level of skills, if that's your problem is then it is time to consider actively pushing for this aspect of the game to be looked at by W.G before it turns as the farce WoT has became, because it is only a matter of time before "noobs" can get their hands on tIX/tX BBs with cash (it's already the case with Missouri), again this game was not designed exclusively for you but for everyone and remains a commercial operation, think of it...

 

As for myself I play the ships I like, not necessarily the best earner or the best in her tiers, meaning NO German Torp shiter, HE spamming specialist or heavy floating bunker like Yamato but USN line of BBs, I won't get the highest results but I personally do not care the slightest, I play for fun, ship fun factor, look and aura are way more important to me than what people can say about my stats.

 

Give me a Premium USS Washington any time.

I didn't intend for anybody to think that I was insulting them, mainly because most players - even casuals - are likely to have a WR of at least 49%. If anything, I'm one of the noobiest players out there and one who needs to find a niche where he's comfortable. I'm far from an "elite" - if anything the "elite" would likely turn their noses up at my WR for being too low for them. If they want an elite league, that's their problem. 

 

I push in everything - destroyers, cruisers, battleships, even carriers ffs - when it would be smarter to hang back until the enemy team has been whittled down a bit (or better to not push out at all). Most of the time, I never learn from the mistakes of my last defeat because I'm too hung up on farming damage and getting the occasional kill in a Leander or Fiji of all things. 

 

By "cashnoobs", I meant those people who buy and expect to do well in a high-tier Premium ship despite only having low- and mid-tier ships, and then rage when they die because of schoolboy errors like showing your full broadside or pushing up without support, into the middle of the Reds and getting torn a new one in a matter of moments.

 

Also, Missouri by design is not for newb/noob players - by the time you actually get 750k FXP you should at least know how to play the game.

[mtm78]

I push in everything - destroyers, cruisers, battleships, even carriers ffs - when it would be smarter to hang back until the enemy team has been whittled down a bit (or better to not push out at all). Most of the time, I never learn from the mistakes of my last defeat because I'm too hung up on farming damage and getting the occasional kill in a Leander or Fiji of all things.

 

You did no such thing yesterday, seems our division had some good results on your 'bad' habits

 

edit: I can recall at least one game in your Warspite where you were kicking some serious behind btw The Grand Old Lady still packs a punch 

[sharpie65]

 

You did no such thing yesterday, seems our division had some good results on your 'bad' habits

 

True, although you didn't see how I play in Fiji...it's absolutely appalling!

[mtm78]

 

True, although you didn't see how I play in Fiji...it's absolutely appalling!

 

The RN CL's are the most skill intensive ships in the game. 

[ThinderChief]

I push in everything - destroyers, cruisers, battleships, even carriers ffs - when it would be smarter to hang back until the enemy team has been whittled down a bit (or better to not push out at all). Most of the time, I never learn from the mistakes of my last defeat because I'm too hung up on farming damage and getting the occasional kill in a Leander or Fiji of all things. 

 

 

Same here, my main problem being over-exposure, something I work on quiet a lot, pushing is good and needed but I also learned to figure when not to push because you won't have support, which is one of the main team problems if we read the posts in this topic... Coordination and mutual support.

 

Also, Missouri by design is not for newb/noob players - by the time you actually get 750k FXP you should at least know how to play the game.

 

Not necessarily, if by noob you mean below average player (on the basis of win rate), i'm half way there when it comes to Free XP (plus XP from Elite/Premium ships) and I doubt very much that if I was to be let to play in Random by my system (Saturday with memory upgrade) i'd do much better than previous, of course I learn a lot from playing CoOp but from the few games in low tiers I was able to play lately, I still have a lot to learn, although I think I have progressed, experience, knowledge base of the maps and tactics are very important but also team play if I can say so.

 

This game (like most team-based games) requires players to have a team spirit, to be able to forget about "let's take this cap and camp" attitude and provide support to team mates (and not tomorrow but right-the-hell-now support), when the red team is done with them, you're next and many doesn't realise that, also if you assume that going there and doing your bit is safe because your flank is covered, 75% of the time you're wrong, getting citadeled is not always due to bad playing, it is due to lack of S.A and when I assume my team is offering a safe flank it is where I get it wrong most of the time.

 

So I divide tactics based on the solo vs all idea of the game, I do not count on other players anymore but I always try to offer support, in particular at the start of the game to my DDs, with message to the team "support your DDs".

 

In CoOp, when i'm the sole human player, my team dies generally very quickly, they all have some kind of suicidal attitude and your position/speed at the start of any engagement is primordial, if it's not optimal, it's going to cost you or your team, even more so in ships as easily citadeled as the Iowa class, and I end up often being the last vs 2/3 or more reds including the BB, doesn't always end up well, at least I learned how to kill Iowas playing CoOp.

 

I see a lot of new guys in CoOp not daring to engage, or being full blown way too aggressive, getting things right demands experience I guess, anyway, plan is to get into a team of 3 with another BB and a CV as soon as my system is sorted, and I expect a hard awakening but I get my basic training in gunnery skills and manoeuvring, we will see how it goes, but i'm still a noob ty win rates standards, not bothering me.

[sharpie65]

It seems to me that, like with the vast majority of any playerbase, the word 'noob' is assumed to mean the same as 'newbie' and vice versa - they are completely different. 'Noob' more often than not refers to somebody who needs to L2P but refuses to do so; 'newb' means exactly that - newbie, although only the first spelling is used for whatever reason.

 

 

The RN CL's are the most skill intensive ships in the game. 

 

Very true on that. I seem to recall somebody suggesting to start with the RUDDs in order to learn the appropriate playstyle for RNCLs...even though they feel very different.

---

Back on topic: 

 

Same here, my main problem being over-exposure, something I work on quiet a lot, pushing is good and needed but I also learned to figure when not to push because you won't have support, which is one of the main team problems if we read the posts in this topic... Coordination and mutual support.

 

Speaking of coordination and mutual support: yesterday I was in a mid/bottom tier game in Ognevoi/Noguneski - the three Tier 7 BBs on our team decided to flank around to A-cap on the Estuary map with the other T7s, while the rest of the team got slaughtered at D-cap and in between. IIIRC we won, but no thanks in part to those three T7s who made the decision to send the low tiers to go die whilst they were nice and cosy on the other side of the map.

[ThinderChief]

Speaking of coordination and mutual support: yesterday I was in a mid/bottom tier game in Ognevoi/Noguneski - the three Tier 7 BBs on our team decided to flank around to A-cap on the Estuary map with the other T7s, while the rest of the team got slaughtered at D-cap and in between. IIIRC we won, but no thanks in part to those three T7s who made the decision to send the low tiers to go die whilst they were nice and cosy on the other side of the map.

 

I saw a couple of very good players in CoOp, once a DD was disconnected on the grid, started very late, I (Iowa) was way behind him at the start but when I came at his level, he started to move, read the game in no time, rushed forward to smoke myself and a Cruiser just at the corner of an Island before proceeding to harass the incoming DD and Cruisers who were coming straight at us.

 

I managed to stop on the smoke blob and could open fire while being safe from the return fire for nearly as long as it lasted and the island protected my flank , we got rid of the bots on our flank and were able to immediately give support to the middle right side ships, he didn't survive, but scored higher than most and his action was probably a game winning move.

 

On the other hand, I saw the funniest thing with BBs ever, our team splited in two, I was going left to A (?) bringing up the rear, while other BB and a DD went right to C, the B cap was unchecked but I was positioned so as to cover the B cap at minimum angle, with all my guns ready to fire.

 

Sure enough all the bots rushed to B cap, I immediately ignitiated my turn left before even firing, came under fire from nearly every one of them at some point, get citadeled while making the evasive maneuver (from min angle front to min angle back trying to open some distance with the bots) set on fire several times and returning fire with support of team mates from my side of the map, I ended up with less than 50% HP when the intensity of the fire started to lower.

 

During this short time, the bots did score the B cap and went on to proceed to the C cap, I have been doing another turn without getting citadeled again, going forward and reversing in the cap, scoring hits/kills and repairing, when I read the team chat saying "you're welcome to assist" "SOS", hearing "Request immediate fire support" etc.

 

My reply to that was "No Sh!t" Sherlock, see, I've been firing non stop from the time the red were spotted, took and gave the first shots of the game and was still engaging targets when they realised OMG!!!

 

I thought that it might have been a huge surprise to those guys who were peacefully caping C in the middle of a group of islands to see all those red dots coming at them at once before we did deplete them enough for them to deal with that easily, just imagine my face when I saw the entire red team snowballing my way.

 

But once repaired I started to move their way as fast as possible to close the range, I never stopped firing and was in open sea all this time, how I survived am not sure but it's certainly thanks to my team mates who didn't try to cap at all cost or shelter themselves behind rocks and instead immediately faced the bots and offered effective fire support plus multiple active targets for the bots to shoot at. We won, Just...

 

I think I would have been killed quickly with a good coordinated team or without one...

 

[fabatka]

Why not tanking? I realy love to play with Gneisenau and I use it in brawlers style. But while your hit/overpen ratio is 55-60%(no matter where to aim, thx to RNGesus) I feel myself nothing but HP pool for the enemy team...

[Cyclops_]

I love to tank with my Yamato, as long as I get some support, even a tier 10 Gearing DD is not safe from me :-)

 

 

[CleverViking]

I usuually make a point of always supporting BBs that tank for the team (when I'm in a CA as supportive fire in a DD as a screener or DD killer). As for the whole: BBs dont push so I die/when I push as a BB I get left alone and die the best solution is sadly to get some friends to play with.

 

2 BBs are great at pushing together (and will often get a cruiser escort naturally whilst solo BBs often get left alone) 1 BB and 1 CL/CA give a good combo of skills and firepower and DDs are good as scouts but should maybe have some more support if you're pushing a significant number of enemies.

 

I've had great results pushing caps with my division mate, he in a Bismarck, me in a Mogami/Takao. Alternating the use of Hydro, calling out threaths, delegating priority targets (usually me going for DDs, he going for whatever is currently shooting at me). 

[Shaka_D]

Last night I played a few games in my Neptune. After a couple of games seeing the same thing where battleships hung far back and let cruisers take the fight to the enemy tier 9 and 10 battleships, I finally gave up. We lost most of the time because of this, where the enemy bb's were tanking damage and our bb's ended up alive and alone to fight off 3/4 of the enemy team. One game like this I could handle, but quite a few of the same thing exentually led to me complaining to random bb players who naturally thought I was mad, although the cruiser fellas were all agreeing with me. The game that was the last straw was watching our Yamato, from the game's beginning, shadow our carrier and provide AA cover for him at the border line. No use complaining to these braindead fools, what they actually need is a smack in the face, followed by my wish being for one of them to magically appear before me to receive it with interest.

[Ferry_25]

Don't know of course if my thread has anything to do with it. Probably not but I've seen a change for the better lately: BB's are getting their @sses moving and start tanking ahead! I'm so glad to see this developping! And yes: it's always the "thin red line" between camping/ hiding behind a rock vs rushing in like an idiot! No, not always but on average things are getting better the last weeks. Or am I the only one experiencing this?

[CPL_Sivi]

U r the only one. I take Gneisenau out alot and most kills i score are DDs. Now being a BB i shouldnt be killing dds in a knifefight in a first 5 minutes of a game. I do play Gneise aggresively, i take her to front lines always and i mean always. She is fast but she is not faster than CAs (Graf Spee aside) or DDs so how come i always engage DDs first? I guess cause in the opening stage of the game every1 is reluctant to push. I actualy dont mind my team not following me cause i know Gneise in close range fight will sink just about anything. Even when outnumbered and focused atleast 2 boats will go down before Gneise does. Dont show broadsides and u wont get more than 1 torp per salvo and Gneise can take that. The thing is Gneisenau is one of the rare BBs that reward that kind of play, last 2 games with her were 9 kills and both wins. 4 out of 9 kills were destroyers. When you drop first coupla boats down the rest of the team always kicks in cause they want piece of that action and then victories come almost easy. But i would never try that in USN or Jap BB. Not even in Bismarck. With Gneisenau i can outbrawl even Bismarck. But for what its worth, i never get called a camper

But the thing is that coming to engagement should be in this order, DDs come first followed by CAs and the last wave should be BBs. When u see a fleet layout before the fight it looks just like that. First lines are DDs, second line CAs and third BBs. If a BB comes to a fight first it means that DDs and CAs are not doing their job right in the opening stage of the game and that can be crucial. Just like in a chess game, if u dont position your pieces in the opening stage right its a sure loss. Here u lose time to reposition, in a chess game u lose tempo. While u r repositioning u have little or no effect on game, giving enemy time to suppress ur team and gain control of the map. In some cases when u reposition and joined the rest of the fleet u can still win even if u were losing by points and u didnt control the map. But that takes team work and a lot of it. Still those are my favourite victories, they leave such a sweet taste. And u cant help not having that stupid grin when u look at post battle stats.

But i still need to find a BB that can safely push no matter the support aside from Gneise/Scharn. To have BBs that close to a front line u need to screen for them. If u dont do that dont blame them for staying in the back. Recently i find even DDs staying back which is apsurd. BB can have an excuse but to use a jap DD with superior camo away from caps and hiding behind land  even negating spotting ability thats just mindnumbing. Thats sabotage. U deliberatly want your team to lose. After the battle he should be taken out in the back and shot for treason!

So its not only a BB sindrome. Its spread to general population... must be a virus. An airborne one. Yuck!

[mtm78]

Don't know of course if my thread has anything to do with it. Probably not but I've seen a change for the better lately: BB's are getting their @sses moving and start tanking ahead! I'm so glad to see this developping! And yes: it's always the "thin red line" between camping/ hiding behind a rock vs rushing in like an idiot! No, not always but on average things are getting better the last weeks. Or am I the only one experiencing this?

 

It's has always been variable. I know people who are always agressive in whatever they play, battleships are not an exception for them. You might have been lucky with MM. 

 

Personally, it's been terrible some games, and better in others. But since I started checking stats of the campers a pattern emerges. All the long range passive sniper baddies are for the most part really really terrible players. I'm talking 40% - 45% ranges, sometimes up to 48% but never above 55%. They are for the most part, with some notable exceptions, also new players, with <1k games played. 

 

I think the newest part of the playerbase is also the part which never visits forums, never reads guides, never watches good streamers/youtubers, but instead get their ' info '  from other bad players. Who off course all whine about ' torpedo soup ' , ' smoke is bad ', '  HE spam is bad ', ' CV op '  and so on. That's why they are so bad are such passive sniper BBabies, because they listen to the other bad players which then in turn emphasizes the points of the bad players and makes them come true. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. 

[Nightdare]

U r the only one. I take Gneisenau out alot and most kills i score are DDs. Now being a BB i shouldnt be killing dds in a knifefight in a first 5 minutes of a game

 

Play USN the same way end you end up getting killed by DDs in the first 5 minutes of the game

[deadly_if_swallowed]

Play USN the same way end you end up getting killed by DDs in the first 5 minutes of the game

 

With a USN BB (except Iowa/Missouri) he will not get near any DDs within 5 minutes

[mtm78]

 

Play USN the same way end you end up getting killed by DDs in the first 5 minutes of the game

 

Gneisenau doesn't have hydro, why would it be better vs DD's then a Colorado? Colorado turns good and has a heavier broadside, it's not really worse then Gneisenau at close range...

[olmedreca]

Answer for original question is simple, lots of battleship players just s***, and I say it as a regular BB player myself. They just don't comprehend that HP is another tool that is meant to be used.

[X_MonsterMilkMan_X]

The problem is when us BB players do tank we get instantly set on fire then torped while all the CA and other BB players sit at the back not assisting at all and not firing at the targets we've spotted.

Tanking in random battles is near suicide when your own team will not support you.

[Zathras_Grimm]

The problem is when us BB players do tank we get instantly set on fire then torped while all the CA and other BB players sit at the back not assisting at all and not firing at the targets we've spotted.

Tanking in random battles is near suicide when your own team will not support you.

 

So you sit at the back not supporting your team because you feel you won't be supported when you push forward?

 

The game is doomed!

 

 

Joking aside, why do BB players say they have to stay at back or tank. Why not come forward to support yet stay behind your DDs and CAs? They can spot torps, smoke/scout, launch spotter aircraft. The only thing you have to do not to get killed is not sail in a straight line for a length of time and look at the battle taking place in front of you and on the mini map (that way you won't find yourself too far forward or unable to retreat if the battle isn't going well).

 

 

If you want you could even communicate with the ships in your group.