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RayPall

How to counter a DD HE spam in a battleship?

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Basically this. A single Izyaslav managed to practically solo my Kaiser with unending spam of HE. He kept well away out of range of my secondaries and whenever I tried to obliterate him with HE salvo, he just changed course the second I fired, keeping pumping the HE. I tried to run away (futile move, since Kaiser is slower than moving glacier), I tried to call for help (teammates either too far away or tunnelvisioning their respective targets), nothing helped. 

Try to use the repair? Boom, another three fires. Trying to wait the fire out, sparing your repair? Boom, your HP dropping like crazy. When someone finally killed him, I was left with like 3k health and at mercy of approaching Myogi. 

 

So two questions here. First one - isn't this a tad absurd, a DD being able to solo out a battleship with gunfire only? 

 

And the second question - how to prevent a situation like this, eg. high-DPM destroyer spamming HE is whittling down your clumsy and slow BB and you either cannot hit him due to RNG dispersion, or he simply evades your salvo? 

Edited by RayPall
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Yes of course this situation is absurd when compared to reality.  A DD or even a heavy cruiser should not be able to sink the majority of BBs with gunfire alone.  But if the game was realistic everyone would play BBs or CVs.  HE Spam, concealment, and so on, are required to make the game playable for small ships.

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If he isn't hidden, as in inside smoke or outside of visibility range, then just shoot him. If it's just you in a BB versus one DD you should have no problem out-damaging him no matter the RNG.

Make small course changes just to make his long range spam a bit harder to maintain and return fire when he is starting to commit to a turn or sailing straight. High dispersion guns can even help you here unless you're aiming completely off the mark.

 

I can't remember when I've had an issue with a lone visible long range HE spamming DD while sailing a BB.

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You gave away the problem - you said your team mates were too far away.   

 

Cruisers are deadly to DDs and you should never leave your cruiser escort.

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1. He didn't kill you.

 

2. He got 168 hits on you, that must have taken him a while.

 

3. You were a long way away from help. 

 

4. He must have been spotted the whole time and was only 9km away from you. 

 

 

Not sure there is much to say but you obviously made mistakes being too far from help and not hitting him. 

 

 

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whenever I tried to obliterate him with HE salvo, he just changed course the second I fired, keeping pumping the HE

 

Well, you ran into a good player. I think it is also your fault for various reasons:

1. Being isolated and letting it happen

2. Firing full salvos and by so making it easy for him to dodge and focus you down

3. Not using premium consumable and flags

 

I could think of more, but I dont want to make it look I am tying to disrespect you In any way. Gunboats are good at spamming HE, but keep in mind that they are weak. One good salvo and most of their HP is gone. Battleships think they are invincible tanks, that only need to be careful for torpedoes and other BBs hitting their broadside. Its time to come back to reality and realize that you need cruiser support that can protect you from that pesky DD. Let this be a lesson... and please dont be one of those BBabies that complain every single time they get countered.

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1. He didn't kill you.

 

2. He got 168 hits on you, that must have taken him a while.

 

3. You were a long way away from help. 

 

4. He must have been spotted the whole time and was only 9km away from you. 

 

 

Not sure there is much to say but you obviously made mistakes being too far from help and not hitting him. 

 

 

 

1) True that. But with 3k HP remaining and everything on cooldown, I was basically a sitting duck

2) As I said, I try to run away or whatever to break contact, but he just sticked to me and refused to let me escape, even evading other targets of opportunity

3) Not much. Some friendly ships were around, but they either tunnelvisioned their target, or were unable to hit that Izyaslav in time

4) True, I maintained the LOS contact the whole time.

 

I'm not saying I didn't do any mistakes - I fired salvo only and was too frustrated to fire one turret at the time and lure him to my shot. Maybe I should have stick with the pack (albeit keeping up with the cruisers in a slow BB ain't exactly easy. In more agile and faster ships like Dunkerque, I'm rarely focused and HE-spammed to death...but seems like whenever I sit in someone sluggish and slow, the whole world just waits to beat me with HE's...

 

...

 

So far, I have the Fire Prevention skill and basic DCS modification. And don't worry, I'm trying hard to not be that dumb slow BB player Jingles love to make fun of. I can take it when I get torp'd to low orbit because I was dumb and charged into a rock garden with a BB. But this situation...I felt totally helpless to be honest. 

 

Edited by RayPall

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Basically this. A single Izyaslav managed to practically solo my Kaiser with unending spam of HE. He kept well away out of range of my secondaries and whenever I tried to obliterate him with HE salvo, he just changed course the second I fired, keeping pumping the HE. I tried to run away (futile move, since Kaiser is slower than moving glacier), I tried to call for help (teammates either too far away or tunnelvisioning their respective targets), nothing helped. 

 

Try to use the repair? Boom, another three fires. Trying to wait the fire out, sparing your repair? Boom, your HP dropping like crazy. When someone finally killed him, I was left with like 3k health and at mercy of approaching Myogi. 

 

 

I guess the 10k AP was not from the DD so you basically received 153 hits doing a total of 8k HE damage.

 

With you having ~47.000 HP that is not very much and can actually be ignored to the most part, since it is simply just annoying because of the constant hit sounds.

The fires are a different thing and you got 8 of them. Those have to be countered with the smart use of the consumables.

 

Great read on those: http://shipcomrade.com/news/163/not-all-consumables-are-created-equal.html

 

to sum it up: Fire damage is repairable to 100%

Your Repair party can heal 14% of your HP in one go, that's about 7.000 HP for the Kaiser. You just have to be patient enough to wait untill those 7k are available (grey part of your ships HP bar)

Your damage control party should be used wisely as well in combination with repair party. You are immune to fires for 15s after you use it and you should only use i with 2 or more fires. Otherwise use the repair only.

 

If you do that the DD would need half the game to actually kill you.

 

Shooting:

Bait him into turning with shooting only 1 or 2 turrets, and shoot the other turrets as soon as he turns.

 

Questions:

 So two questions here. First one - isn't this a tad absurd, a DD being able to solo out a battleship with gunfire only? 

 

Well, the DD played good as it seems, but he actually used the only option he had against you. And it would take him a looong time to actually kill you like this, while you need 2 good salvos to kill him.

Other option would be to charge you with short range torps. Risky business for him.

 

 And the second question - how to prevent a situation like this, eg. high-DPM destroyer spamming HE is whittling down your clumsy and slow BB and you either cannot hit him due to RNG dispersion, or he simply evades your salvo? 

 

Don't go alone or use islands/terrain to your advantage. Either to trap him or to get away/out of sight.

 

 

Edited by LilJumpa
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Well, you ran into a good player. I think it is also your fault for various reasons:

1. Being isolated and letting it happen

2. Firing full salvos and by so making it easy for him to dodge and focus you down

3. Not using premium consumable and flags

 

I could think of more, but I dont want to make it look I am tying to disrespect you In any way. Gunboats are good at spamming HE, but keep in mind that they are weak. One good salvo and most of their HP is gone. Battleships think they are invincible tanks, that only need to be careful for torpedoes and other BBs hitting their broadside. Its time to come back to reality and realize that you need cruiser support that can protect you from that pesky DD. Let this be a lesson... and please dont be one of those BBabies that complain every single time they get countered.

 

Constant pulverizing cruisers leads to no cruisers to assist you in such cases.

 

 

1) True that. But with 3k HP remaining and everything on cooldown, I was basically a sitting duck

2) As I said, I try to run away or whatever to break contact, but he just sticked to me and refused to let me escape, even evading other targets of opportunity

3) Not much. Some friendly ships were around, but they either tunnelvisioned their target, or were unable to hit that Izyaslav in time

4) True, I maintained the LOS contact the whole time.

 

I'm not saying I didn't do any mistakes - I fired salvo only and was too frustrated to fire one turret at the time and lure him to my shot. Maybe I should have stick with the pack (albeit keeping up with the cruisers in a slow BB ain't exactly easy. In more agile and faster ships like Dunkerque, I'm rarely focused and HE-spammed to death...but seems like whenever I sit in someone sluggish and slow, the whole world just waits to beat me with HE's...

 

 

 

Grass is always greener on other side. If you find gunboats OP, why you don't own one already to sealclub them battleboats?

And about DDs fighting larger ships - search about battle off Samar. How small fleet with handful of DDs and DEs became quality pain in the arse to large fleet.

Edited by Panocek
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Basically this. A single Izyaslav managed to practically solo my Kaiser with unending spam of HE. He kept well away out of range of my secondaries and whenever I tried to obliterate him with HE salvo, he just changed course the second I fired, keeping pumping the HE. I tried to run away (futile move, since Kaiser is slower than moving glacier), I tried to call for help (teammates either too far away or tunnelvisioning their respective targets), nothing helped. 

 

Try to use the repair? Boom, another three fires. Trying to wait the fire out, sparing your repair? Boom, your HP dropping like crazy. When someone finally killed him, I was left with like 3k health and at mercy of approaching Myogi. 

 

So two questions here. First one - isn't this a tad absurd, a DD being able to solo out a battleship with gunfire only? 

 

And the second question - how to prevent a situation like this, eg. high-DPM destroyer spamming HE is whittling down your clumsy and slow BB and you either cannot hit him due to RNG dispersion, or he simply evades your salvo? 

Yes, it is absurd.

Normaly I can solo one or two of these gunboats with a BB.

You have to work on your aim!

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Sail away from the DD. Yes, s/he is faster. but it'll give the player a smaller profile to aim at.

While you sail away wiggle with your [edited]. Don't be to predictable in doing so or s/he will adjust.

Don't extinguish the first fire you get. Fire damage can be repaired, so it pays of to pe patient and wait for the second or third fire before you engage your damage control party.

Don't use your repair party as a replacement for your damage control consumable.

If your teammates are in tunnel vision, sometimes a small chat message can help. Don't use SOS. It usually gets ignored as it mostly used by players who brought doom upon themself, or when it is not really applicable. Use focus target instead.

 

And lastly... work on your aim and prediction of enemy movement. I never really have a problem with long range spamming DDs, as one good salvo will drive them away. Just don't get impatient in your shots. Even if they evade, they often use the same evasive pattern again and again. Predict it and aim for the point where they'll be.

 

Edit for one more important note:

Don't Panic!

Edited by Egoleter

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Grass is always greener on other side. If you find gunboats OP, why you don't own one already to sealclub them battleboats?

And about DDs fighting larger ships - search about battle off Samar. How small fleet with handful of DDs and DEs became quality pain in the arse to large fleet.

 

Didn't say the DD's are OP in any way - but I admit it sounds like the another "NERF HE PLS" threads. I have gunboat myself, I run Nicolas currently, but I never had the luck/skill to pull off something like that.

 

Kudos to that Izyaslav driver anyway - he trolled me allright. 

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You gave away the problem - you said your team mates were too far away.   

 

Cruisers are deadly to DDs and you should never leave your cruiser escort.

Short answer= this ^^^

 

Long answer = this vvv

 

I guess the 10k AP was not from the DD so you basically received 153 hits doing a total of 8k HE damage.

 

With you having ~47.000 HP that is not very much and can actually be ignored to the most part, since it is simply just annoying because of the constant hit sounds.

The fires are a different thing and you got 8 of them. Those have to be countered with the smart use of the consumables.

 

Great read on those: http://shipcomrade.com/news/163/not-all-consumables-are-created-equal.html

 

to sum it up: Fire damage is repairable to 100%

Your Repair party can heal 14% of your HP in one go, that's about 7.000 HP for the Kaiser. You just have to be patient enough to wait untill those 7k are available (grey part of your ships HP bar)

Your damage control party should be used wisely as well in combination with repair party. You are immune to fires for 15s after you use it and you should only use i with 2 or more fires. Otherwise use the repair only.

 

If you do that the DD would need half the game to actually kill you.

 

Shooting:

Bait him into turning with shooting only 1 or 2 turrets, and shoot the other turrets as soon as he turns.

 

Questions:

 

Well, the DD played good as it seems, but he actually used the only option he had against you. And it would take him a looong time to actually kill you like this, while you need 2 good salvos to kill him.

Other option would be to charge you with short range torps. Risky business for him.

 

 

Don't go alone or use islands/terrain to your advantage. Either to trap him or to get away/out of sight.

 

 

 

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Didn't say the DD's are OP in any way - but I admit it sounds like the another "NERF HE PLS" threads. I have gunboat myself, I run Nicolas currently, but I never had the luck/skill to pull off something like that.

 

Kudos to that Izyaslav driver anyway - he trolled me allright. 

 

USN gunboats aren't as capable as Russians when it comes to making baBBies cry:rolleyes:

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Get used to it, it gets even worse on higher tiers, where DD's spam HE at you from everywhere and you have exactly 0% to counter them, becasue rich and enhancing game mechanic and also you play it wrong ...

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Kudos to you, for describing this frustrating experience in a civilized and somewhat constructive manner instead of creating the next "OMG imma frequently getting roasted by those imba DDs, NERF PLOX" thread:great:

 

I can fully understand the pain of gettings slowly burned down by ships you cant hit or sometimes not even see. While advancing in tiers it will become even worse^^ Sometimes RNJesus hates you and you will never hit this pesky little DD thats shelling you and you can only watch yourself become a giant BBQ. But...it just happens...sometimes! Remember the times when you instadeleted that cruiser, that was fighting some other ships and wasnt aware of you aiming at him from across the map? Or the poor DD that got detonated by one of your shells?  I bet, they werent feeling very lucky about that either^^ Sometimes you win, sometimes the others:coin:

 

And by the way...did you ever sailed that Izyaslaw by yourself? There isnt much this thing can do against BBs except spamming HE^^ Its torps are really shitty...

 

So remember this experience, draw your consequences out of it (keeping close to other ships, improve your aim etc...) and when you are oneshotting the next DD or CA or whatever tell yourself: " Revenge Motherf****r":red_button:(but pls dont oneshot me)

 

greetz

Edited by Bademeister02
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And by the way...did you ever sailed that Izyaslaw by yourself? There isnt much this thing can do against BBs except spamming HE^^ Its torps are really shitty...

 

 

If you can maneuver yourself so you are in the path of a BB then hit your speed boost and charge it down Glowworm style.  He's only got half his guns pointing at you* and you are very narrow as a target.  You can close to definite-kill-torping-rangeTM in seconds.

 

 

*Not against Dunkerque

Edited by Hedgehog1963

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If you can maneuver yourself so you are in the path of a BB then hit your speed boost and charge it down Glowworm style.  He's only got half his guns pointing at you* and you are very narrow as a target.  You can close to definite-kill-torping-rangeTM in seconds.

 

 

*Not against Dunkerque

 

On other hand, if BB shells hit destroyer bow on, damage will be massive, comparable to citadel hits on cruisers as shells most likely will detonate within ship

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On other hand, if BB shells hit destroyer bow on, damage will be massive, comparable to citadel hits on cruisers as shells most likely will detonate within ship

 

It is not a risk free strategy and I wouldn't recommend it without a Juliet Charlie and Sierra Mike flag hoisted.
Edited by Hedgehog1963

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Gun boats don't really have much else to do, they cap and they fight other DDs, after that with their short range torps and poor arcs (at least for USN DD) shooting big slow BBs and hoping for fires is their best option.

 

Plus most games are filled with BBs, so they are generally your only targets. If Cruisers hadn't become so marginalised you'd see more of them and they'd be able to support the BBs more and can take out these gunboats. 

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If you can maneuver yourself so you are in the path of a BB then hit your speed boost and charge it down Glowworm style.  He's only got half his guns pointing at you* and you are very narrow as a target.  You can close to definite-kill-torping-rangeTM in seconds.

 

 

*Not against Dunkerque

 

Yolo torping is always an option^^ especially with the lowtier soviet DDs and the ridicolous amount of torps they have...but i dont think its a tactic you should recommend, cause its a bit too situational and will cost you quite a lot of HP. But for the lulz and for clearly unexperienced captains it will often work fine:izmena:

 

Ontopic: But i just wanted to make clear, that if you take DD-HE spam away or nerf it, you can delete many DDs right away...

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Whats a bit grating is WG's implementation of the overpen mechanic.

 

In the OP's scenario, your BB may well be in combat with other BBs or CA/CLs, and will therefore have AP loaded. Generally, in this situation you have to choose between doing your proper job vs capital ships, or trying to deal with a DD who is burning you down and who, if allowed, might close and torp you. Quite often, you may have to split salvos, or alternate them between the two targets. With very slow reloads, you usually don't have the option to change ammunition type - thus are stuck with AP.

 

Its tricky enough hitting a DD with BB main armament. What makes it really stupid is when your AP passes through a DD doing minimal damage, and multiple hits from several salvos are required to do significant damage or sink the DD. In an effort to make the game playable (IMHO it is impossible to actually balance), the unrealistic overpen mechanic leaves the BB vs DD action feeling just a bit contrived and silly.

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Get used to it, it gets even worse on higher tiers, where DD's spam HE at you from everywhere and you have exactly 0% to counter them, becasue rich and enhancing game mechanic and also you play it wrong ...

 

Well, how about using Radar, Hydro, scout planes, etc, all of which hard counter the DD's.

Oooorrrr you could just whine about the so-called 'HE spam'.

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Well, how about using Radar, Hydro, scout planes, etc, all of which hard counter the DD's.

Oooorrrr you could just whine about the so-called 'HE spam'.

 

These tools available to class so happily clicked by most baBBies, so no wonder not many are willing to take fight to the destroyers

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These tools available to class so happily clicked by most baBBies, so no wonder not many are willing to take fight to the destroyers

 

Ah yes, I forgot that. Whining BBabies had the cruisers (Radar and Hydro) and Carriers (Spotting planes) nerfed because they could not be bothered figuring out how to counter them, and now noone wants to bring them.

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