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SonofaSailor

Wind, smoke and gimmicky ships

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Disclaimer: I don't play much, anymore, and read the forums even less, so if this has been covered, who ever wrote it didn't use good keywords because my search didn't bring it up. I also like putting stuff in bold for visual interest. I'm a visually interesting kinda guy ;-)

 

One of the reasons I don't play much anymore is because nothing in this game evolves. The play style and tactics change very little. Some ships get buffed, some get nerfed. Big deal. The essential arcade game remains unchanged.

For battleships: Angle. Aim. Shoot. Repeat.

For cruisers: Angle. Aim. Spam. Repeat.

For destroyers: Smoke. Torp. Retreat. Repeat.

For carriers: get some therapy, because why are you playing a carrier? ;-)

 

WOWS's problem is that its game play doesn't change, thus it doesn't create added interest, thus they have to resort to gimicky ships like the RN cruisers. Look! A branch of 155mm only cruisers that have less armour than the Russian glass cannons, worse ballistics than an Atlanta, RNG that makes a shot gun look like a precision weapon, and no HE?!?!

 

Of course, I understand why there is no HE on RN cruisers. It's because there are islands and smoke. It's because an RN cruiser could sit motionless inside smoke, or behind an island, and burn everything to death. It would kill gameplay. It would immobilise whole quadrants of the map. It would murder low HP ships and drive everyone else crazy. It would be... shock horror... worse than submarines!

 

So what's the problem? I think there are two closely related factors, here: the ability for ships to sit motionless without drifting, and the ability of smoke to sit motionless without drifting. Basically, both of these things are bollox and if they were fixed, it would add a whole new dimension of more interesting game play, and would help differentiate WOWS from WOTS.

 

When I first started playing I was quite puzzled by ships that would "come to anchor" behind an island, sometimes poke their bow around it, shoot, then go into reverse. WTF? I thought. Is this a tank game or a ship game? Why aren't we all just playing WOTS, instead?

 

But what really bent my brain as a beginner was the fact that smoke didn't move. I've been on this planet for a few years and I've noticed something about smoke: it moves. Especially when there's a breeze. Even when there isn't. Smoke is hot, hot gas is energetic. Energetic particles tend to move about. The other thing I've noticed is that when you're inside smoke, people can't see you and... YOU CAN'T SEE OTHER PEOPLE. But in the game, when you're in smoke you have perfect visibility, everywhere. It's an invisibility cloak. But wait, this isn't Star Trek, either. So how come destroyers have cloaking devices?

 

Now someone will lecture me about how game physics isn't like real physics. But you're missing the point.

 

There are two things WG can do to shake everything up and really develop a separate style of gameplay for WOWS:

1. make ships that are not under power drift.

2. make smoke drift and opaque.

 

After the game starts, wind will blow ships that are not moving. So, that player who is AFK at the start will slowly blow to the map edge, or maybe onto an island, or even right into the middle of a firefight! I think that would be amusing, or maybe I'm just mean ;-)

 

A player who hides behind an island and cuts his engines might drift onto the island if he's forgotten which way the wind is blowing. Or he might drift away from it and lose his cover. He could end up going backwards or sideways or, if he's in a narrow strait between islands, maybe he'll start turning in circles! I think that would be amusing ;-)

 

Wind will blow smoke. Before setting smoke, a player should consider the wind direction. The smoke will travel, slowly, in that direction. So I destroyer will not be able to come to a full stop - he'll have to follow his smoke. He can speed up a bit or slow down a bit so that he can still move around inside the smoke, but if he stops he risks drifting out of it, or it drifting away from him.

 

Better still, when setting a smoke screen to help his team, a destroyer can set it upwind of his team and then let it drift down towards them, so that the team doesn't have to manoeuvre to make use of it. The smoke will come to them.

 

And this is interesting: smoke will drift across a large section of the map, so you might suddenly find yourself with someone's second hand smoke drifting past.

 

Benefits of introducing wind effects and opaque smoke.

1. Introducing wind effects will reward players who maintain situational awareness (a great many still don't have it, even at higher tiers).

2. It'll reward team tactics.

3. It'll punish campers, especially habitual torp ninjas who never do any scouting or fire support or capping or destroyer hunting, and focus all their energy on getting that battleship kill, instead, which is not always the most useful thing a DD can do in the game. And a bit boring, as well.

4. It'll shake up destroyer tactics to the point where WG might feel able to de-nerf some of the ships and torpedoes that they've nerfed in an attempt to balance the game.

5. It'll differentiate WOWS from WOTS - tank tactics just won't work, at all.

6. It'll allow RN cruisers to have HE and become useful.

 

WG are scraping the barrel in the search for something new. They're not going to introduce any new ship types, so every new nationality has to have some kind of gimmick. And no one is impressed. So why not just say, fck it! Let's shake up the whole game! What have we got to lose? We still only get 20k players on a weekend compared to the nearly 100k that play WOTS. And we're still only on version 0.5 so why not have some courage and take a decision and make something that's more stimulating than just another boring shoot-em-up?

 

  • Cool 3

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I actually like the Idea with Wind blowing. But I guess it would not appeal to the majority of mapunaware potatoes to keep another indicator in their fov :-)

 

This. Most players will just cry "MOMMY! MOMMY! My ship is moving to a little bit of wind! WAAAH WAAH WAAAH!"...

 

 

To me, the idea looks fun.

Edited by CaptainThunderWalker

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[HF_30]
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Why not go all in and introduce actual currents? Now that would add some more depth to maps and make things a lot more interesting. Wind to, yeah why not... But I think moving smoke due to it is the more interesting bit there. Check wind direction, lay down smoke cloud in absolute safety and move with it right into your intended kill zone.  

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The other thing I've noticed is that when you're inside smoke, people can't see you and... YOU CAN'T SEE OTHER PEOPLE. But in the game, when you're in smoke you have perfect visibility, everywhere. It's an invisibility cloak. But wait, this isn't Star Trek, either. So how come destroyers have cloaking devices?

 

 

When you are in smoke you don't have perfect visibility. Your spotting is limited to the very close range automatic detection (which also allows you to be detected in smoke) or using hydro-acoustics or radar. Beyond that you are relying on others to spot for you.

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Evolution. It's the thing, doncher now?

 

And look what happens if something new crops up.  The outcry over the Royal Navy cruiser line is deafening (although I am having a lot of success in them).
Edited by Hedgehog1963

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[-MM]
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Firstly it's an arcade game and secondly that just reads as a moan about tactics you don't like. 

 

It's also important to remember that IRL, ships were operated and controlled by hundreds of people, in game there is one person doing multiple jobs.

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And look what happens if something new crops up.  The outcry over th eroal navy cruiser line is deafening (although I am having a lot of success in them).

 

Same I love the RN cruiser and seem to be performing well with them.

 

Bit changes to the smoke will be in favor of the BBabies and the game is already over inflated with them.

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One of the reasons I don't play much anymore is because nothing in this game evolves. The play style and tactics change very little. Some ships get buffed, some get nerfed. Big deal. The essential arcade game remains unchanged.

For battleships: Angle. Aim. Shoot. Repeat.

For cruisers: Angle. Aim. Spam. Repeat.

For destroyers: Smoke. Torp. Retreat. Repeat.

For carriers: get some therapy, because why are you playing a carrier? ;-)

 

 

When you dumb it down like that, every game is boring

 

CS:GO : Run, Aim, Shoot , Repeat

DOTA : Get XP, Kill enemies, Destroy base

Starcraft : Build units, Kill enemy units, Destroy base

Mario : Jump, Try not to die

Chess : Move pieces

 

 

There, I just summed up some of the most popular games ever in 2 steps or less.

 

Maybe if you find the game boring, it's just because you don't like it?

 

 

 

Benefits of introducing wind effects and opaque smoke.

 

5. It'll differentiate WOWS from WOTS - tank tactics just won't work, at all.

6. It'll allow RN cruisers to have HE and become useful.

 

 

 

WoWS is already different from WoT. Anyone using WoT tactics in WoWS has awful results.

 

RN cruisers don't need HE to be useful. Get them to the right spot and a combination of good torpedoes, good camo, smoke and in some cases radar will do severe damage to randoms.

However, that only takes into account tier6+ ships.

Everything below that needs some love from WG. A lot, even.

Edited by Exocet6951

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Firstly it's an arcade game and secondly that just reads as a moan about tactics you don't like. 

 

It's also important to remember that IRL, ships were operated and controlled by hundreds of people, in game there is one person doing multiple jobs.

 

Just saying, but some of the Tier II destroyers had a complement below 100.:trollface:

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I like it, my pet hate atm is people not playing, by that yeah I mean afk and bots but also the players stuck behind an island and spend the whole game doing nothing but spam over the hills

 

run aground,  take flood damage, get blown off the side of the map, take flood damage, lets hurt those not playing.

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Why not go all in and introduce actual currents? Now that would add some more depth to maps and make things a lot more interesting. Wind to, yeah why not... But I think moving smoke due to it is the more interesting bit there. Check wind direction, lay down smoke cloud in absolute safety and move with it right into your intended kill zone.  

 

Yeah, and let's have a Bermuda Triangle map where if you get caught in green smoke you go on a Fantastic Journey through a timewarp gateway and go on to have all sorts of adventures with Ike Eisenmann :hiding:

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[NED]
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Am I the only one having stopped reading @20% of the wall of text due to complete lack of interest?

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Am I the only one having stopped reading @20% of the wall of text due to complete lack of interest?

 

Nope.

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Okay, seems folk are split about 50:50 between 'like it, would be fun' and 'meh'. Maybe I should have included a poll ;-)

 

I take the point about not having perfect visibility when in smoke. Perhaps it should be limited to having others spot for you, and not having direct line of sight on anything from your own point of view. Thus, DDs couldn't mount unsupported attacks using smoke, and if teams wanted their DDs to help, they'd need to support them with spotting.

 

I'm encouraged by those people who think having wind/currents and ships that drift when the engines go idle is all potentially fun and amusing, whether it's for setting up interesting smoke screen attacks/defences or just the schadenfreude of watching AFK players bobbing about helplessly! Whatever floats your boat! (Or sinks it.)

 

Maybe those players who like the idea will remember it next time they get a survey from WG to fill in! ;-) There's always one of these questions: What's the biggest disadvantage in World of Warships? Answer: no wind!

 

Cheers

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[KUMA]
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To be honest... I think it sounds pretty cool. I don't think it would change the game balance a great deal, but it would be a cool little 'realism without being too realistic' feature. However, we're talking about a game which consistently removes things because they would be "too complicated for the playerbase, tovarisch :^)))))". I very much doubt they'd intruduce things which make the game more complex at this stage.

 

Honestly, I'd settle for rudders that move along with your steering commands and guns that elevate/depress to simulate the loading cycle at this stage.

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I take the point about not having perfect visibility when in smoke. Perhaps it should be limited to having others spot for you, and not having direct line of sight on anything from your own point of view. Thus, DDs couldn't mount unsupported attacks using smoke, and if teams wanted their DDs to help, they'd need to support them with spotting.

 

Bro you still didn't get it. A lone DD in smoke is allready unable to see a damn thing more than 2km away (3km with target aquisition module) the way the game is right now. Smoke blinds both teams equally

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After the game starts, wind will blow ships that are not moving. So, that player who is AFK at the start will slowly blow to the map edge, or maybe onto an island, or even right into the middle of a firefight! I think that would be amusing, or maybe I'm just mean ;-)

 

You have some interesting ideas. 

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Am I the only one having stopped reading @20% of the wall of text due to complete lack of interest?

 

The kind of guy that does not fully read a contract before he signs it.

Don't answer any Nigerian emails buddy. :read_fish:

Edited by iJoby

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Point is that the whole smoke thing is crap at the moment. It was intended as a defensive tool for DD but it is more and more used offensively. Just delete the ability to sit in the smoke and shoot at ships your teammates have spotted for you, and it will become better.


 

The other thing is that AP mechanics don't work correctly. Even a Yamato can be citadeled by any other T10-BB at maximum range. Everybody plays only for autobounce. All you need is 32 mm bow armor, the other 20.000 tons of armor are more or less meaningless.

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Disclaimer: I don't play much, anymore, and read the forums even less, so if this has been covered, who ever wrote it didn't use good keywords because my search didn't bring it up. I also like putting stuff in bold for visual interest. I'm a visually interesting kinda guy ;-)

 

One of the reasons I don't play much anymore is because nothing in this game evolves. The play style and tactics change very little. Some ships get buffed, some get nerfed. Big deal. The essential arcade game remains unchanged.

For battleships: Angle. Aim. Shoot. Repeat.

For cruisers: Angle. Aim. Spam. Repeat.

For destroyers: Smoke. Torp. Retreat. Repeat.

For carriers: get some therapy, because why are you playing a carrier? ;-)

 

WOWS's problem is that its game play doesn't change, thus it doesn't create added interest, thus they have to resort to gimicky ships like the RN cruisers. Look! A branch of 155mm only cruisers that have less armour than the Russian glass cannons, worse ballistics than an Atlanta, RNG that makes a shot gun look like a precision weapon, and no HE?!?!

 

Of course, I understand why there is no HE on RN cruisers. It's because there are islands and smoke. It's because an RN cruiser could sit motionless inside smoke, or behind an island, and burn everything to death. It would kill gameplay. It would immobilise whole quadrants of the map. It would murder low HP ships and drive everyone else crazy. It would be... shock horror... worse than submarines!

 

So what's the problem? I think there are two closely related factors, here: the ability for ships to sit motionless without drifting, and the ability of smoke to sit motionless without drifting. Basically, both of these things are bollox and if they were fixed, it would add a whole new dimension of more interesting game play, and would help differentiate WOWS from WOTS.

 

When I first started playing I was quite puzzled by ships that would "come to anchor" behind an island, sometimes poke their bow around it, shoot, then go into reverse. WTF? I thought. Is this a tank game or a ship game? Why aren't we all just playing WOTS, instead?

 

But what really bent my brain as a beginner was the fact that smoke didn't move. I've been on this planet for a few years and I've noticed something about smoke: it moves. Especially when there's a breeze. Even when there isn't. Smoke is hot, hot gas is energetic. Energetic particles tend to move about. The other thing I've noticed is that when you're inside smoke, people can't see you and... YOU CAN'T SEE OTHER PEOPLE. But in the game, when you're in smoke you have perfect visibility, everywhere. It's an invisibility cloak. But wait, this isn't Star Trek, either. So how come destroyers have cloaking devices?

 

Now someone will lecture me about how game physics isn't like real physics. But you're missing the point.

 

There are two things WG can do to shake everything up and really develop a separate style of gameplay for WOWS:

1. make ships that are not under power drift.

2. make smoke drift and opaque.

 

After the game starts, wind will blow ships that are not moving. So, that player who is AFK at the start will slowly blow to the map edge, or maybe onto an island, or even right into the middle of a firefight! I think that would be amusing, or maybe I'm just mean ;-)

 

A player who hides behind an island and cuts his engines might drift onto the island if he's forgotten which way the wind is blowing. Or he might drift away from it and lose his cover. He could end up going backwards or sideways or, if he's in a narrow strait between islands, maybe he'll start turning in circles! I think that would be amusing ;-)

 

Wind will blow smoke. Before setting smoke, a player should consider the wind direction. The smoke will travel, slowly, in that direction. So I destroyer will not be able to come to a full stop - he'll have to follow his smoke. He can speed up a bit or slow down a bit so that he can still move around inside the smoke, but if he stops he risks drifting out of it, or it drifting away from him.

 

Better still, when setting a smoke screen to help his team, a destroyer can set it upwind of his team and then let it drift down towards them, so that the team doesn't have to manoeuvre to make use of it. The smoke will come to them.

 

And this is interesting: smoke will drift across a large section of the map, so you might suddenly find yourself with someone's second hand smoke drifting past.

 

Benefits of introducing wind effects and opaque smoke.

1. Introducing wind effects will reward players who maintain situational awareness (a great many still don't have it, even at higher tiers).

2. It'll reward team tactics.

3. It'll punish campers, especially habitual torp ninjas who never do any scouting or fire support or capping or destroyer hunting, and focus all their energy on getting that battleship kill, instead, which is not always the most useful thing a DD can do in the game. And a bit boring, as well.

4. It'll shake up destroyer tactics to the point where WG might feel able to de-nerf some of the ships and torpedoes that they've nerfed in an attempt to balance the game.

5. It'll differentiate WOWS from WOTS - tank tactics just won't work, at all.

6. It'll allow RN cruisers to have HE and become useful.

 

WG are scraping the barrel in the search for something new. They're not going to introduce any new ship types, so every new nationality has to have some kind of gimmick. And no one is impressed. So why not just say, fck it! Let's shake up the whole game! What have we got to lose? We still only get 20k players on a weekend compared to the nearly 100k that play WOTS. And we're still only on version 0.5 so why not have some courage and take a decision and make something that's more stimulating than just another boring shoot-em-up?

 

 

To be completely honest with you, i dont want the consept of the game changing. I play the game becouse i like it, not becouse i want changes all the time. Sure, you can improve it and add new features, but not change the game as a whole. I have played Counter-Strike since 2003 ish, and thats becouse i like it the way it has been consistent with its mechanics all along, meaning you can truly master it. Same goes with other games like Tomb Raider, i still play the classics time to time becouse i enjoyed the platform gameplay and riddlesolving, where you can get stuck for days. Newest edition is just another CoD or BF or whatever action game wich there are dozens of. Not completely relevant ofcourse but you get my point. And the thing about drifting, how ridicilous would that be in a competetive setting? Everybody just randomly floating around?
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